The Open Door (megacrossover)
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Re: The Open Door (megacrossover)
When much of the Northdark was collapsed by a nuclear explosion, how was the svirfneblin city of Blingdenstone affected? Now that drow civilization is falling apart and spilling into the rest of the Underdark, will the deep gnomes be forced to migrate to the surface? In canon, they allied with Mithril Hall after temporarily abandoning their stronghold.
The Orc pantheon would be more likely to aid Skuld than Lolth. Excluding past grudges, the orcs respect brute strength, and shooting off a goddess’ tit, let alone Lolth’s, would’ve earned Skuld serious brownie points in their eyes. The gods Shargaas and Yurtrus bear little loyalty to Gruumsh, so they’d be more likely to help Skuld than other members of the Orc pantheon; these two gods are Neutral Evil, unlike Gruumsh who is Chaotic Evil, making them more open to reason that their tyrannical leader.
A number of Duergar, or gray dwarves, where mentioned among Skuld’s refugee party. That could attract the attention of the Dwarf pantheon. An unusually progressive-minded dwarf might want to reconcile with their long-lost brethren and bring them back into the surface dwarf society of Moradin the SoulForger, similar to how Eilistraee the goddess of good drow was able to transform her worshippers from drow into dark elves, undoing the taint of Lolth’s influence.
If a Duergar was branded with Lars’ and Skulds’ sigil, would that augment their natural psionic abilities?
The Orc pantheon would be more likely to aid Skuld than Lolth. Excluding past grudges, the orcs respect brute strength, and shooting off a goddess’ tit, let alone Lolth’s, would’ve earned Skuld serious brownie points in their eyes. The gods Shargaas and Yurtrus bear little loyalty to Gruumsh, so they’d be more likely to help Skuld than other members of the Orc pantheon; these two gods are Neutral Evil, unlike Gruumsh who is Chaotic Evil, making them more open to reason that their tyrannical leader.
A number of Duergar, or gray dwarves, where mentioned among Skuld’s refugee party. That could attract the attention of the Dwarf pantheon. An unusually progressive-minded dwarf might want to reconcile with their long-lost brethren and bring them back into the surface dwarf society of Moradin the SoulForger, similar to how Eilistraee the goddess of good drow was able to transform her worshippers from drow into dark elves, undoing the taint of Lolth’s influence.
If a Duergar was branded with Lars’ and Skulds’ sigil, would that augment their natural psionic abilities?
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Re: The Open Door (megacrossover)
Hey AD, I was wondering if you would lend your talent to a Chapter of UPF where my namesake character gets caught in your multiverse, I bet it would rate very highly on the awesomeness scale.
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Re: The Open Door (megacrossover)
Hey, if you want to put me in, I won't object I usually go by Johan Ragle for fiction or RPGing, it's a little easier to work with.Academia Nut wrote:Crazy9000, that symbol is perfect. It's not what I originally envisioned, but it has the perfect sort of balance, with the heads and wings angled in such a way that they look like part of the star. You want a cameo?
The other thing I noticed with the symbol was that the wings wound up having 4 "feathers" per wing, for 8 total.
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Re: The Open Door (megacrossover)
One thing to remember in all this talk of walls, gates, and positions of above and below is that the construct and universe they are talking about probably involves more than three spatial dimensions. Perhaps sigificantly more than three, and maybe more than one time-like axis as well.Just out of curiosity, why is it called the "Eye Wall" instead of the "Eye Walls". Unless the affected universe - both above and below the Eye - are linked into one mass/object...
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Re: The Open Door (megacrossover)
Only a four kilometre radius of the Northdark collapsed, so the cities are all mostly intact, its just that the massive earthquake triggered by the collapse far exceeded the tolerances of the suicidally constructed Ched Nesad, and Menzo had been mostly emptied out by Lolth in an attempt to kill the ones who had tried to usurp her power and then maimed her. Of course, considering how much a warren of caves the Underdark is, a major collapse is going to put a large hole in the ground. About 50 square kilometres in area too. Everyone who hears about it is going to want to know what happened.
Hmmm... let's see here. Lars and Skuld rescued a large number of races, many of them considered monstrous, from enslavement down in Menzo so there could be a number of patron deities who are pleased/annoyed with her snatching up their worshippers, although since they're stuck in avatar form many of them won't know what's doing on. Still, considering the huge number of deities Lolth has pissed off, I can see a huge number getting drawn into the crossfire.
Gruumsh and his group I could see just jumping into the chaos, maybe sort of half siding with Skuld, half just being there as I could see the bloodthirsty bastard deciding to fight in the same general direction as the ones who managed to pay back the bitch who betrayed him and left him with monocular vision. He might be in the North as well as there are plenty of orcs in that area.
Kurtulmak, despite his justifiable if overblown hatred of gnomes, seems like a pretty okay guy. A bit xenophobic, but considering how much his people get shat on by others, he's relatively alright for an evil deity. Probably in a distant part of the Underdark though.
Ditto for the dwarven gods, both the evil and good pantheons. They're all probably too far away to help here. They've got the magic to teleport, its just that the time for them to actually hear about things will probably exceed the tempo of the fighting. This is a medieval setting and the gods are going to have to rely on word of mouth, even if that mouth is attached to wings.
Of course, there is also the fact that rumour is going to spread, especially amongst the evil outsiders. I can see Lolth petitioning demons for aid, promising a cut of her access to the Shadow Weave afterward, and not all of them taking up the offers but instead figuring that if they act independently they can get a better deal. Then devil spies will pass on to their lords that the demons are hunting something on Faerun. And hey, look at that! Asmodeus has some secret project over there! Considering the politics of Hell, some archdevils may wish to help, "help", or actively try and fuck Asmodeus' shit up.
Then the good aligned planes will probably catch wind and they'll all be like, "What the fuck do the fiends want down there? Quickly! Go down there! Stop them!" Some, probably the more stick-up-the-ass lawful good types might decide that whatever Skuld is she probably evil and should be destroyed before the fiends capture her.
Especially if they link the renovations of the landscape to Skuld and decide she must have some sort of superweapon.
And then Skuld will introduce the world to the Minie ball. And the Gatling gun. And improved designs on cannons, howitzers, and mortars.
I think Tempus and Uthgar might just show up for the fighting and add even more to the Chaos.
Also, the Riders of Nesme are Grade AAA dicks. Yeah, Drizzt was a drow and they have right to be suspicious, but he was travelling with a certified dwarf king and a little casting of detect good would have shown both of them to be legit. Then, even when Mithral Hall was back up (I think I have the time line right, more or less) they put enough political pressure on Alustriel, one of the chosen of Mystra, to keep Drizzt out of Silverymoon. There's justifiable suspicion and then there's just bigotted xenophobia in the face of mountains of evidence to the contrary.
Send me a PM DR and we'll talk.
Hmmm... let's see here. Lars and Skuld rescued a large number of races, many of them considered monstrous, from enslavement down in Menzo so there could be a number of patron deities who are pleased/annoyed with her snatching up their worshippers, although since they're stuck in avatar form many of them won't know what's doing on. Still, considering the huge number of deities Lolth has pissed off, I can see a huge number getting drawn into the crossfire.
Gruumsh and his group I could see just jumping into the chaos, maybe sort of half siding with Skuld, half just being there as I could see the bloodthirsty bastard deciding to fight in the same general direction as the ones who managed to pay back the bitch who betrayed him and left him with monocular vision. He might be in the North as well as there are plenty of orcs in that area.
Kurtulmak, despite his justifiable if overblown hatred of gnomes, seems like a pretty okay guy. A bit xenophobic, but considering how much his people get shat on by others, he's relatively alright for an evil deity. Probably in a distant part of the Underdark though.
Ditto for the dwarven gods, both the evil and good pantheons. They're all probably too far away to help here. They've got the magic to teleport, its just that the time for them to actually hear about things will probably exceed the tempo of the fighting. This is a medieval setting and the gods are going to have to rely on word of mouth, even if that mouth is attached to wings.
Of course, there is also the fact that rumour is going to spread, especially amongst the evil outsiders. I can see Lolth petitioning demons for aid, promising a cut of her access to the Shadow Weave afterward, and not all of them taking up the offers but instead figuring that if they act independently they can get a better deal. Then devil spies will pass on to their lords that the demons are hunting something on Faerun. And hey, look at that! Asmodeus has some secret project over there! Considering the politics of Hell, some archdevils may wish to help, "help", or actively try and fuck Asmodeus' shit up.
Then the good aligned planes will probably catch wind and they'll all be like, "What the fuck do the fiends want down there? Quickly! Go down there! Stop them!" Some, probably the more stick-up-the-ass lawful good types might decide that whatever Skuld is she probably evil and should be destroyed before the fiends capture her.
Especially if they link the renovations of the landscape to Skuld and decide she must have some sort of superweapon.
And then Skuld will introduce the world to the Minie ball. And the Gatling gun. And improved designs on cannons, howitzers, and mortars.
I think Tempus and Uthgar might just show up for the fighting and add even more to the Chaos.
Also, the Riders of Nesme are Grade AAA dicks. Yeah, Drizzt was a drow and they have right to be suspicious, but he was travelling with a certified dwarf king and a little casting of detect good would have shown both of them to be legit. Then, even when Mithral Hall was back up (I think I have the time line right, more or less) they put enough political pressure on Alustriel, one of the chosen of Mystra, to keep Drizzt out of Silverymoon. There's justifiable suspicion and then there's just bigotted xenophobia in the face of mountains of evidence to the contrary.
Send me a PM DR and we'll talk.
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Re: The Open Door/UPF Crossover
Hey thanks for reading my post. Where I am at in the plot right now with the Fanboy character is that he is travelling through time with the TARDIS a.k.a TARDASS, he just finished a sidequest of sorts collecting this strange medallion that forms an emerald pot leaf but that's not important.
In a crazed binge of hallucinogens and hookers, Fanboy decides that the best way to solve his time travelling problem is to travel far into the future to see how they did it. I was thinking that he could travel so far into the future that he would end up in the Thousand Shinji Eva/40k verse which would lead to a humorous encounter, not necessairly with the quartet of Chaos Gods but perhaps if that were entertaining enough to read. The Fanboy character in many ways is a perfect example of Chaos undivided, he abuses substances on an hourly basis, has had sex with many women across time and space in every humanly possible position (although still tame compared to Slaneesh/Mislaato's fuck everyone and everything philosophy but impressive for a mortal man), and he spread a strain of STD caught from a Hooker who had sex with James Kirk in the 23rd century by taking it back to dark age Europe, the virus mutated and became the Black Plague. So he has a good in with Nurgle/Reigle, and he has many well thought out plans that don't seem to have any direction at all, although this is unintentional it still pleases Shinji, Tzinji. Oh, and lets not forget his has killed many many many gnomes and assorted bad guys during his career as a merc and typically takes trophies.
If you want to do this, anything you write would be considered UPF-canon and thus affect future chapters, but don't worry because in UPF we make use of every plot device, ret-con tool, and whatever else we want to get the desired effect. Whether or not you wanted to use it as part of your actual plot is up to you, doesn't matter either way, and I could follow it up with whatever plot devices needed to steer it wherever. I love your treatment of a fictional ultiverse though and really have enjoyed both Thousand Shinji and Open Door, so I feel this is uniquely suited to you. UPF is technically set in the Star Trek universe but again, it's a much more bizarre version of it and it could be considered an Alt timeline or even a "Parody Universe" not unlike the Mirror-Verse in OTL Trek.
WHatever you do will also be followed up by me writing a story about the "Prime Dalton" in his ministrations of the Fanfic verse.
In a crazed binge of hallucinogens and hookers, Fanboy decides that the best way to solve his time travelling problem is to travel far into the future to see how they did it. I was thinking that he could travel so far into the future that he would end up in the Thousand Shinji Eva/40k verse which would lead to a humorous encounter, not necessairly with the quartet of Chaos Gods but perhaps if that were entertaining enough to read. The Fanboy character in many ways is a perfect example of Chaos undivided, he abuses substances on an hourly basis, has had sex with many women across time and space in every humanly possible position (although still tame compared to Slaneesh/Mislaato's fuck everyone and everything philosophy but impressive for a mortal man), and he spread a strain of STD caught from a Hooker who had sex with James Kirk in the 23rd century by taking it back to dark age Europe, the virus mutated and became the Black Plague. So he has a good in with Nurgle/Reigle, and he has many well thought out plans that don't seem to have any direction at all, although this is unintentional it still pleases Shinji, Tzinji. Oh, and lets not forget his has killed many many many gnomes and assorted bad guys during his career as a merc and typically takes trophies.
If you want to do this, anything you write would be considered UPF-canon and thus affect future chapters, but don't worry because in UPF we make use of every plot device, ret-con tool, and whatever else we want to get the desired effect. Whether or not you wanted to use it as part of your actual plot is up to you, doesn't matter either way, and I could follow it up with whatever plot devices needed to steer it wherever. I love your treatment of a fictional ultiverse though and really have enjoyed both Thousand Shinji and Open Door, so I feel this is uniquely suited to you. UPF is technically set in the Star Trek universe but again, it's a much more bizarre version of it and it could be considered an Alt timeline or even a "Parody Universe" not unlike the Mirror-Verse in OTL Trek.
WHatever you do will also be followed up by me writing a story about the "Prime Dalton" in his ministrations of the Fanfic verse.
"If it's true that our species is alone in the universe, then I'd have to say that the universe aimed rather low and settled for very little."
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"Have some of you Americans actually seen Football? Of course there are 0-0 draws but that doesn't make them any less exciting."
-Dr Roberts, with quite possibly the dumbest thing ever said in 10 years of SDNet.
Re: The Open Door (megacrossover)
I don't think anyone has brought up the good/neutral deities whose toes Skuld is stepping on. The most obvious one of these would be Gond, who is basically the god of inventors; his portfolio is artifice, craft, construction and smithwork.
Prior to the Time of Troubles (i.e., now), gunpowder was largely unused on Faerun. During the ToT, Gond taught the gnomes on the isle of Lantan how to make gunpowder, as well as how to make guns accurate and safe enough to be worth using. Priests of his church shortly thereafter started making and selling arquebuses, which were only tolerated because the priesthood was ruthless in taking any steps necessary to keep the technology proprietary to the church. Beyond that, he also has an order of followers (Techsmiths) who make primitive robots called Gondsmen, but all are required to first visit the High Holy Crafthouse of Inspiration on the island of Lantan before taking that class.
He's either going to be very unhappy with Skuld, or she's going to find herself with a new follower, since the main point of contention between Gond and Oghma has always been that Gond wants to push technology further along than Oghma thinks wise.
Oghma, Gond's superior, and the greater deity whose portfolio is invention, inspiration and all knowledge, is going to be quite put out if Skuld doesn't accept that she should be in his service, rather than independent. Its also quite possible that he'll see her as a threat to his entire position, particularly if he loses Gond to her.
Mystra will naturally be bothered by the idea of the Shadow Weave, but she's got other problems right now.
Prior to the Time of Troubles (i.e., now), gunpowder was largely unused on Faerun. During the ToT, Gond taught the gnomes on the isle of Lantan how to make gunpowder, as well as how to make guns accurate and safe enough to be worth using. Priests of his church shortly thereafter started making and selling arquebuses, which were only tolerated because the priesthood was ruthless in taking any steps necessary to keep the technology proprietary to the church. Beyond that, he also has an order of followers (Techsmiths) who make primitive robots called Gondsmen, but all are required to first visit the High Holy Crafthouse of Inspiration on the island of Lantan before taking that class.
He's either going to be very unhappy with Skuld, or she's going to find herself with a new follower, since the main point of contention between Gond and Oghma has always been that Gond wants to push technology further along than Oghma thinks wise.
Oghma, Gond's superior, and the greater deity whose portfolio is invention, inspiration and all knowledge, is going to be quite put out if Skuld doesn't accept that she should be in his service, rather than independent. Its also quite possible that he'll see her as a threat to his entire position, particularly if he loses Gond to her.
Mystra will naturally be bothered by the idea of the Shadow Weave, but she's got other problems right now.
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Re: The Open Door (megacrossover)
Like being dead...Valint wrote: Mystra will naturally be bothered by the idea of the Shadow Weave, but she's got other problems right now.
Sorry, couldn't resist.
But yeah, its implied that the deities of magic and their followers were also suppressing fire arms tech as they saw it as a massive threat to their portfolios. The martial deities too probably. What could take a wizard decades of study to do once or twice a day as a fireball any berk with access to some explosives can do until his stockpiles runs out. Definitely a lot of toes going to get stepped on, and a lot of pissed off deities by the end of this.
Least of all Ao.
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Re: The Open Door (megacrossover)
Depending on how the Time of Troubles goes down, the deities of monstrous creatures might form non-aggressive armistices (not “alliances” per say) with Skuld to get an edge over the more powerful races like humans. Attitudes like those of the Nesme riders are common and scare off the good and neutral monsters out there.Academia Nut wrote: Kurtulmak, despite his justifiable if overblown hatred of gnomes, seems like a pretty okay guy. A bit xenophobic, but considering how much his people get shat on by others, he's relatively alright for an evil deity.
Bender (Futurama): “Hey, sexy lady, wanna kill all humans?”
Tiamat is currently preoccupied in Chessenta and her war against Gilgeam, but after she regains her full divinity she’s long-sighted enough to notice how devotely Asmodeus and his devil forces are aiding Skuld. Tiamat has many contracts with the head Archdevil of Hell, so she’d be very reluctant to piss him off.
Semuanya, the true Neutral god of the lizardfolk, is solely devoted to the survival and propagation of the his race. If something is not directly related to survival or propagation, Semuanya considers it irrelevant.
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Re: The Open Door (megacrossover)
And when they don't you get Iron Kingdoms setting. Pistol Wraiths, pollution based risen undead, mechanikal Iron Liches.Academia Nut wrote:Like being dead...
Sorry, couldn't resist.
But yeah, its implied that the deities of magic and their followers were also suppressing fire arms tech as they saw it as a massive threat to their portfolios. The martial deities too probably. What could take a wizard decades of study to do once or twice a day as a fireball any berk with access to some explosives can do until his stockpiles runs out. Definitely a lot of toes going to get stepped on, and a lot of pissed off deities by the end of this.
Least of all Ao.
I have a FR novel around somewhere that says Semuanya spends most of the Time of Troubles killing off the half-fiend Lizard Kings. Who spend their time forcing the tribes they control to worship the Demon Lord Sess'innek in his bid for godhood.MichaelAwesome wrote:Semuanya, the true Neutral god of the lizardfolk, is solely devoted to the survival and propagation of the his race. If something is not directly related to survival or propagation, Semuanya considers it irrelevant.
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Re: The Open Door (megacrossover)
Given her new association with shadow, Skuld is likely to be the patron for the powerful Shadowcraft mages. At level 15, such a mage, is capable of literally creating almost any physical substance by pulling shadowstuff from the shadow-plane, and forming it into physical material by emulating "True Creation" using "Shadow Conjuration". Admittedly, you wont find many such mages in any D&D setting. But even 1 high level Shadowcraft mage (must be a gnome to take this prestige class) is a huge asset.WillowBee wrote:Wow, and Skuld has both gnomes and kobolds endeared to her. Once the refugees get back on there feet, she’s going to have one of the most powerful, diversified cults in all of Faerun.Satori wrote: Pft. Are you Kidding? If you use all the Complete, Races, and Eberron books for 3.5 Edition, Kobold Sorcerors and Gnome Illusionists are just about tied for "most powerful Race/class", with kobolds slightly in the lead, if anything.
Given the respective degrees of vulnerability to mental and physical force, annoying the powers of chaos to the point where they try openly to kill them all rather than subvert them is probably a sound survival strategy under the circumstances. -Eleventh Century Remnant
Re: The Open Door (megacrossover)
Howdy! I friend of mine recommended “Thousand Shinji” and “Open Door.” It’s so good that I read it all in a single 6-hour sitting. Your incredibleness knows no bounds.
(*Jaeger gives Academia Nut a cookie*)
Stargate SG-1:
I’m not familiar with the Atlantis spin-off, but renegade Tok’ra inhabiting Wraith hosts doesn’t bode well for the SG1 team, although Samantha’s new lazgun tech ought to help protect them. Also, if enough daemonworlds are created, the Wild Space that the Stargate-verse occupies might gradually get converted into Chaotic Space, thus serving as a long-term foothold for Chaos Undivided outside of the Great Warding. P3X-7763, the volcanic ex-homeworld of the Tollan, could be given to little Kali as a birthday gift if she’s a good girl.
AMG!/Faerun:
Could you please give a more detailed description of Lars’ face? I tried drawing a sketch of him, but he keeps looking like John Locke from “Lost” or that guy on the fish stick box.
For a role reversal, it’d be ironic if daemons like Lars and Gunnhild developed a taste for Illithid mindflayers. I can guess that the souls of those with psychic abilities are much more filling and flavorful to daemon. There’s atleast one illithid in Waterdeep and dozens more in Skullport.
Star Trek:
Process of Captain Picard being humbled to the point of asking to repel his the Prime Directive was artistically well down and shows his character growth as he becomes a true humanitarian of all races instead of adhering to aloof dogma.
Can we see how the rest of the Enterprise crew is handling all of the this?
Stiletto/BSG:
When the Battlestar Galactica fleet eventually gets back to Holy Terra Prime, over 20 million of the bird-like New Syracusians have had a decade to get settled into the society of Chaos Undivided.
Furthermore, Nurlan and a good number of the 10 thousand slave laborers may have earned their freedom, so don’t forget about them.
Buffy the Vampire Slayer:
Ethan Raynes is such a delight to read. Can’t wait to see what Leman Russ (spelling?) will do when he finally shows up on the Hellmouth. We’ve seen how the Mayor and the First Evil were affected by the Halloween spell’s aftermath, but what about other big shots like Illyria the Old One, Wolfram and Hart, ADAM of the Initiative, or Glorificous the Hell Goddess?
UnChaotic Eva: Will you touch upon that AU Shinji introduced in the second chapter of Open Door? Tzintchi left behind the Lance of Longinus for a reason, right?
(*Jaeger gives Academia Nut a cookie*)
Stargate SG-1:
I’m not familiar with the Atlantis spin-off, but renegade Tok’ra inhabiting Wraith hosts doesn’t bode well for the SG1 team, although Samantha’s new lazgun tech ought to help protect them. Also, if enough daemonworlds are created, the Wild Space that the Stargate-verse occupies might gradually get converted into Chaotic Space, thus serving as a long-term foothold for Chaos Undivided outside of the Great Warding. P3X-7763, the volcanic ex-homeworld of the Tollan, could be given to little Kali as a birthday gift if she’s a good girl.
AMG!/Faerun:
Could you please give a more detailed description of Lars’ face? I tried drawing a sketch of him, but he keeps looking like John Locke from “Lost” or that guy on the fish stick box.
For a role reversal, it’d be ironic if daemons like Lars and Gunnhild developed a taste for Illithid mindflayers. I can guess that the souls of those with psychic abilities are much more filling and flavorful to daemon. There’s atleast one illithid in Waterdeep and dozens more in Skullport.
Star Trek:
Process of Captain Picard being humbled to the point of asking to repel his the Prime Directive was artistically well down and shows his character growth as he becomes a true humanitarian of all races instead of adhering to aloof dogma.
Can we see how the rest of the Enterprise crew is handling all of the this?
Stiletto/BSG:
When the Battlestar Galactica fleet eventually gets back to Holy Terra Prime, over 20 million of the bird-like New Syracusians have had a decade to get settled into the society of Chaos Undivided.
Furthermore, Nurlan and a good number of the 10 thousand slave laborers may have earned their freedom, so don’t forget about them.
Buffy the Vampire Slayer:
Ethan Raynes is such a delight to read. Can’t wait to see what Leman Russ (spelling?) will do when he finally shows up on the Hellmouth. We’ve seen how the Mayor and the First Evil were affected by the Halloween spell’s aftermath, but what about other big shots like Illyria the Old One, Wolfram and Hart, ADAM of the Initiative, or Glorificous the Hell Goddess?
UnChaotic Eva: Will you touch upon that AU Shinji introduced in the second chapter of Open Door? Tzintchi left behind the Lance of Longinus for a reason, right?
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Re: The Open Door (megacrossover)
An important thing to remember is that Faerun is not the world (Toril), or even a full continent. Faerun is part of the largest continent, and (IMO) you can fit Canada, the United States of America and *maybe* Mexico in it's area.
The other two parts of the continent in question are Kara-Tur and Zakhara. Kara-Tur is to east of the lands known as Faerun, is at least twice the size of Faerun, and acts as the local equivalent to Asia. Zakhara is (IMO) about 1/3 to 1/5 the size of Faerun and is the local equivalent to a middle eastern "Arabian Nights" setting.
Farun's humans have only recently started to explore any of the other continents - only one other one, to the best of my knowledge - and the human civilizations in that part of that continent (Maztica) are basically the local equivalent of Central/South America at the time of Cortez's arrival.
However, due to various factors - like travel times, lack of knowledge, and the fact that most of them tend to view Faerun as a land of barbarians - means that Lars and Skuld shouldn't have to deal with any of their gods during the Time of Troubles. Barring having to open up any other portals to flee through, of coruse.
On the other hand, *after* the Time of Troubles I think a lot of gods are going to be unplesantly surprised at all the changes that will occur due to the current events in northwest Faerun.
***
***
One thing I would like to ask the author is in regards to how long the Time of Troubles are going to last? If it hasn't lasted longer than it did in the original timeline (at least according to the Forgotten Realms atlas) it's pretty close. Is this due to you feeling that the people coming up with the timeline used in the atlas entry for the Time of Troubles was too short? Or has Ao decided that it would be better to keep the gods on Toril while he looks for Skuld and Lars?
Edit: Or am I just making a mistake in regards to how much time has past since the beginning of the Time of Troubles?
The other two parts of the continent in question are Kara-Tur and Zakhara. Kara-Tur is to east of the lands known as Faerun, is at least twice the size of Faerun, and acts as the local equivalent to Asia. Zakhara is (IMO) about 1/3 to 1/5 the size of Faerun and is the local equivalent to a middle eastern "Arabian Nights" setting.
Farun's humans have only recently started to explore any of the other continents - only one other one, to the best of my knowledge - and the human civilizations in that part of that continent (Maztica) are basically the local equivalent of Central/South America at the time of Cortez's arrival.
However, due to various factors - like travel times, lack of knowledge, and the fact that most of them tend to view Faerun as a land of barbarians - means that Lars and Skuld shouldn't have to deal with any of their gods during the Time of Troubles. Barring having to open up any other portals to flee through, of coruse.
On the other hand, *after* the Time of Troubles I think a lot of gods are going to be unplesantly surprised at all the changes that will occur due to the current events in northwest Faerun.
***
***
One thing I would like to ask the author is in regards to how long the Time of Troubles are going to last? If it hasn't lasted longer than it did in the original timeline (at least according to the Forgotten Realms atlas) it's pretty close. Is this due to you feeling that the people coming up with the timeline used in the atlas entry for the Time of Troubles was too short? Or has Ao decided that it would be better to keep the gods on Toril while he looks for Skuld and Lars?
Edit: Or am I just making a mistake in regards to how much time has past since the beginning of the Time of Troubles?
Last edited by TheClueless on 2008-12-13 02:54am, edited 2 times in total.
Re: The Open Door (megacrossover)
Imply nothing, its outright stated in one short story that wizards (at least those near waterdeep) are actively limiting gunpowder technology access in the realms. Albiet theya re focused more on Spell jammer gunpowder runners...Academia Nut wrote:Like being dead...Valint wrote: Mystra will naturally be bothered by the idea of the Shadow Weave, but she's got other problems right now.
Sorry, couldn't resist.
But yeah, its implied that the deities of magic and their followers were also suppressing fire arms tech as they saw it as a massive threat to their portfolios. The martial deities too probably. What could take a wizard decades of study to do once or twice a day as a fireball any berk with access to some explosives can do until his stockpiles runs out. Definitely a lot of toes going to get stepped on, and a lot of pissed off deities by the end of this.
Least of all Ao.
I wonder where the Elven dieties ended up? Although I could suspect that most are on Evermeet, and Elistree is probably in Skullport at the moment... there was that one Hunter Demigod who loathes all Drow (He barely tolerates Elistree if I recall correctly), who might be nearby... and would be very interested in meeting someone who shot Lolth's tit off.. (and promptly offer to buy him a drink)
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Re: The Open Door (megacrossover)
I don't think that Bruenor considered himself to be a king until Mithril Hall was regained. Even so, insulting the head of a dwarven clan with it's own holdings - not very impressive, at least in Bruenor's opinion, and not exactly next door to Nesme, but... - wasn't (IMO) the wisest of moves.Academia Nut wrote:Also, the Riders of Nesme are Grade AAA dicks. Yeah, Drizzt was a drow and they have right to be suspicious, but he was travelling with a certified dwarf king and a little casting of detect good would have shown both of them to be legit. Then, even when Mithral Hall was back up (I think I have the time line right, more or less) they put enough political pressure on Alustriel, one of the chosen of Mystra, to keep Drizzt out of Silverymoon. There's justifiable suspicion and then there's just bigotted xenophobia in the face of mountains of evidence to the contrary.
Alustriel had to bar Drizzt from Silverymoon *before* Mithril Hall was regained. I don't know how long it was after that that she could openly let him into her city. And I don't think she out-and-out *named* Nesme when she explained that the reason why she couldn't let him in (at that time) was because of how her enemies - and people too blind to look beyond his race - would react to the news.
Still, I also can't recall any comments about Nesme's ruler(s), their assigned envoys and/or any of it's Riders ever appologizing about them judging Drizzt by the standards of your average drow. Also, IMO, relations between Mithril Hall and Nesme seemed to remain ... tense ... until that town fell. Of course, part of that could be the fact that Bruenor has a stereotypical dwarf's loyalty towards a true friend (Drizzt, in this case), as well as the stereotypical dwarf's ability to hold a grudge.
BTW, are we going to see Lolth and/or Shar free the Fey'ri from their statis prisons in the North? As with Hellgate Keep's demonic forces (where a handful of Elven half-fiends are held in statis prisons), deals could be made so they help the goddesses in their hunt for Lars and Skuld in return for their freedom.
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Re: The Open Door (megacrossover)
It has been a long time since I've read the books, but from what I've cobbled together from memory, the people of Nesme were just being dicks after a certain point. And Bruener was king of the dwarven colony in Icewind Dale, if I remember correctly. Still, even if he wasn't a full king then, he was the leader of a rich, if somewhat distant, dwarven mine and he had a legitimate claim to the throne of one of the richest seams of mithral in Faerun. Plus Drizzt had two humans and a halfling in addition to Bruenor to vouch for him, so the continued racism towards him showed a major trend of outright dickishness.
As to the timeline, its been about three weeks, by Lars and Skuld's reckoning, since the start of the Time of Troubles, which is a little more than two tendays. From the timeline I've got access to, the whole thing lasted about four months, or 120 days, so they're about a fifth of the way through the whole thing. Kythorn 15 is supposed to be when the ToT started, so they should be at Flamerule 5 or 6 now. Bane's canon date to bite it is Flamerule 18... so things are about a tenday away from getting even worse.
Of course, I'm going to give the Realms something else to fight about now. Holy wars have been triggered over less than the number of days in the week, and you know someone is going to ask about the units of measure Lars and Skuld are using.
Also, the divine rumour mill is going to be nuts. I can see Elistrae not getting the call to arms from Lolth, but her brother Vhaeraun might pass along some choice bits of gossip just to try and engineer the downfall of one or both of them. From there the rest of the elven pantheon might find out, and since Corellon is also part of the magical pantheon, the surivors there will hear about it, but like fourth-hand at that point. Combined with the other rumours flying about... yeah...
It's probably going to end up like this by the end
It's also going to be weird. While they both come from universes with evil beings, both Lars and Skuld will have the modern attitude that it is actions that determine morality, not race or culture. So to the non-evil members monstrous races they will be entirely okay, and even some of the evil members of certain races aren't that bad. So you could have a good goddess with good goals with allies and non-aggression pacts amongst the evil and monstrous deities while the good deities don't want to talk to her.
As to the timeline, its been about three weeks, by Lars and Skuld's reckoning, since the start of the Time of Troubles, which is a little more than two tendays. From the timeline I've got access to, the whole thing lasted about four months, or 120 days, so they're about a fifth of the way through the whole thing. Kythorn 15 is supposed to be when the ToT started, so they should be at Flamerule 5 or 6 now. Bane's canon date to bite it is Flamerule 18... so things are about a tenday away from getting even worse.
Of course, I'm going to give the Realms something else to fight about now. Holy wars have been triggered over less than the number of days in the week, and you know someone is going to ask about the units of measure Lars and Skuld are using.
Also, the divine rumour mill is going to be nuts. I can see Elistrae not getting the call to arms from Lolth, but her brother Vhaeraun might pass along some choice bits of gossip just to try and engineer the downfall of one or both of them. From there the rest of the elven pantheon might find out, and since Corellon is also part of the magical pantheon, the surivors there will hear about it, but like fourth-hand at that point. Combined with the other rumours flying about... yeah...
It's probably going to end up like this by the end
It's also going to be weird. While they both come from universes with evil beings, both Lars and Skuld will have the modern attitude that it is actions that determine morality, not race or culture. So to the non-evil members monstrous races they will be entirely okay, and even some of the evil members of certain races aren't that bad. So you could have a good goddess with good goals with allies and non-aggression pacts amongst the evil and monstrous deities while the good deities don't want to talk to her.
I love learning. Teach me. I will listen.
You know, if Christian dogma included a ten-foot tall Jesus walking around in battle armor and smashing retarded cultists with a gaint mace, I might just convert - Noble Ire on Jesus smashing Scientologists
You know, if Christian dogma included a ten-foot tall Jesus walking around in battle armor and smashing retarded cultists with a gaint mace, I might just convert - Noble Ire on Jesus smashing Scientologists
Re: The Open Door (megacrossover)
You know all this talk about Drizzt makes me wonder... how is he and the other inhabitatns of mithral hall going ot react to Lars, Skuld, and Co?
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Re: The Open Door (megacrossover)
I still haven't decided if they'll meet, but it seems to be getting more likely as the story progresses.
I love learning. Teach me. I will listen.
You know, if Christian dogma included a ten-foot tall Jesus walking around in battle armor and smashing retarded cultists with a gaint mace, I might just convert - Noble Ire on Jesus smashing Scientologists
You know, if Christian dogma included a ten-foot tall Jesus walking around in battle armor and smashing retarded cultists with a gaint mace, I might just convert - Noble Ire on Jesus smashing Scientologists
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Re: The Open Door (megacrossover)
Even without knowing Gunnhild true nature, Drizzt would probably want to act like a self-appointed mentor for the little drow look-alike (as well as her inexperienced goddess mother Skuld) and nurture the goodness in a creature most people would dismiss as irredeemably evil. “Mr. Introspective Drow” is aware that the world isn’t black and white, often going out of his way to look for exceptions to the stereotypical prejudice of evil races like orcs, giants, and goblins.
Bruenor Battlehammer is unusually open-minded for a dwarf and would give the strangers one chance to prove themselves, although his first responsibility is to the safety of his clan. However, the gruff dwarf has a soft spot for hard-luck cases, given his relationship with Drizzt and his adopted human daughter Catti-Brie.
Catti-brie would stubbornly rebuff their friendship at first, but later her heart would go out to the young mother who has just lost her husband and is raising a child all by herself.
Regis, being the self-serving halfling that he is, would do everything in his power to suck up to the new goddess of the Shadow Weave. Skuld would tolerate his blatant ambition so long as he doesn’t jeopardize Gunnhild or the well being of the escaped refugees that she is caring for.
Bruenor Battlehammer is unusually open-minded for a dwarf and would give the strangers one chance to prove themselves, although his first responsibility is to the safety of his clan. However, the gruff dwarf has a soft spot for hard-luck cases, given his relationship with Drizzt and his adopted human daughter Catti-Brie.
Catti-brie would stubbornly rebuff their friendship at first, but later her heart would go out to the young mother who has just lost her husband and is raising a child all by herself.
Regis, being the self-serving halfling that he is, would do everything in his power to suck up to the new goddess of the Shadow Weave. Skuld would tolerate his blatant ambition so long as he doesn’t jeopardize Gunnhild or the well being of the escaped refugees that she is caring for.
Re: The Open Door (megacrossover)
Druegar, deep gnome, and kobold are all natural miners and enjoy living underground, so it’s inevitable that they’d need to reach an understanding with Bruenor and the Mithril Hall clan dwarves. I don’t know if Bruenor harbors any grudges against Druegar.
Watch out for orc king Obould Many-Arrows, who briefly conquered Citadel Felbar and Mithril Hall, later founding a “relatively” peaceful orc territory known as the Kingdom of Many Arrows that established trade agreements with the surrounding communities of humans, dwarves, and elves.
The biggest downside to having orcs and half-orcs as associates is that they have short lifespans, around 20-30 years, so you have a lot of turn-over and you have to spend extra time and energy renewing alliances with them.
Watch out for orc king Obould Many-Arrows, who briefly conquered Citadel Felbar and Mithril Hall, later founding a “relatively” peaceful orc territory known as the Kingdom of Many Arrows that established trade agreements with the surrounding communities of humans, dwarves, and elves.
The biggest downside to having orcs and half-orcs as associates is that they have short lifespans, around 20-30 years, so you have a lot of turn-over and you have to spend extra time and energy renewing alliances with them.
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Re: The Open Door (megacrossover)
Obould didn't (even temporarily) gain control of Mithril Hall. Admittedly - since Bruenor became King of Mithril Hall, that is - the only ones who came as close (in the original timeline) as Obould did were the (semi) united houses of Menzoberranzan.
(Not that this will happen here, since that battle would have taken place after the Time of Troubles had ended.)
Also Obould's multi-racial horde - and his realization that sometimes part of the cake is more profitable than all of what would remain of the cake after a fight - wouldn't (in the OTL) take place until a decade or so after the Time of Troubles ended.
However, he should still be in control of the fortress that is (currently) called Many-Arrows, so he might get in on the brawls that are about to break out in north-west Faerun.
***
***
Speaking of the drow, I have to wonder what Jarlaxle - and the drow mercenary band he controls (Bregan D'aerte) - are up to? If you take things at face value, they're among the corpses - and free floating gases - that used to make up Lolth's army against Lars and Skuld. However, three non-physical traits come to my mind when I think of Jarlaxle: his apparently cheerful nature, the uncommon value (for a someone who grew up in a Lolthite community) he places on loyalty, and the fact that he isn't just harder to kill than a cockroach - but he'll find a way to quickly recover (if not prosper) from just about anything.
Even before Lars permenantly removed one of Lolth's breasts - during an assassination attempt - Jarlaxle (IMO) would have been concerned about the damage that this could do to him and his. Afterwards, especially after Lolth demanded that her priestesses in Menzoberranzan all have one of *their* breasts removed as wlell, he would be looking for a way to get himself - and his followers - out of sight of both Lolth *and* Skuld.
***
***
I have no problems with Nesme - or at least it's Riders - being portrayed as dicks. My own memories of the novels in question support this point of view. I'm just playing the devil's advocate in regards to just how big a bunch of dicks they are.
It's sort of like the answers listed on tvtropes in regards to whether or not SG-1's Ancients were neglectful; just about every poster thinks they are, the arguments are over just how heavy the sentence should be.
***
***
I can see Lars and Skuld having trouble convincing a lot of the local gods and movers-and-shakers that they *aren't* evil.
I can also see some of the evil gods and movers-and-shakers (especially the Lawful Evil ones) liking how they do business. I've already mentioned that I thought that the devils of the Nine Hells
will be pleasantly surprised by new Chaos.
***
***
Huh, given that Lars (in Chapter 50) shot off one of Lolth's breasts (shortly after Skuld gained control of the Shadow Weave) a week (by Skuld's thoughts) before the battle where he kills a Pit Fiend - and the comments at the beginning of Chapter 51 about the trolls screaming the day before - I would think that it couldn't be earlier than the 8th of Flamerule right now. But the author's word is the author's word, after all.
***
***
According to my copy of the The Forgotten Realms Atlas here's a few of the key dates involved in the Time of Troubles.
Of course, this is all for the original timeline. Given the changes that have resulted so far due to Lars and Skuld (as of the 5th of Flamerule) - and the author's comments that we haven't seen anywhere near the end of the changes (and damage) these two will cause on Toril - everything that hasn't happened yet is suspect.
(If you want more details, ask me.)
Kythorn (June).
- 15: The gods get kicked out of the clubs by Ao.
Flamerule (July).
- Midsummer's Day (1): Helm (god of guardians, and the only god Ao *didn't* kick out of the clubhouse) kills Mystra (goddess of the Weave), for trying to defy Ao's orders. The Weave, basically, goes nuts.
- 18: Bane (god of tyranny, and one of the three gods who stole the Tablets of Fate) is killed.
- 25: Myrkul (current god of the dead, and one the thieves) brings Bane back to life. Kind of.
Eleasias (August).
- 13: Bane fights Torm (god of duty). Both die.
[This, btw, is the best indication that all of the avatars the gods use during the Time of Troubles have basically the same power level available to them. Bane was a Greater god, and Torm was a demigod. (The ranking system - before 4th Ed - was : Overgod (Ao only in FR-verse), Greater god, Intermidiate god, Lesser god, and then Demigod.) Of course, Bane *had* already died once durign the Time of Troubles.]
Eleint (September).
- 26: Cyric murders Bhaal (god of murder, and the third thief).
Marpenoth (October).
- 15: The Battle of Waterdeep occurs. Myrkul dies. Cyric murders Kelemvor. Ao decides that the gods can go back to their homes. Torm is resurrected. Midnight becomes the new goddes of the Weave.
(Not that this will happen here, since that battle would have taken place after the Time of Troubles had ended.)
Also Obould's multi-racial horde - and his realization that sometimes part of the cake is more profitable than all of what would remain of the cake after a fight - wouldn't (in the OTL) take place until a decade or so after the Time of Troubles ended.
However, he should still be in control of the fortress that is (currently) called Many-Arrows, so he might get in on the brawls that are about to break out in north-west Faerun.
***
***
Speaking of the drow, I have to wonder what Jarlaxle - and the drow mercenary band he controls (Bregan D'aerte) - are up to? If you take things at face value, they're among the corpses - and free floating gases - that used to make up Lolth's army against Lars and Skuld. However, three non-physical traits come to my mind when I think of Jarlaxle: his apparently cheerful nature, the uncommon value (for a someone who grew up in a Lolthite community) he places on loyalty, and the fact that he isn't just harder to kill than a cockroach - but he'll find a way to quickly recover (if not prosper) from just about anything.
Even before Lars permenantly removed one of Lolth's breasts - during an assassination attempt - Jarlaxle (IMO) would have been concerned about the damage that this could do to him and his. Afterwards, especially after Lolth demanded that her priestesses in Menzoberranzan all have one of *their* breasts removed as wlell, he would be looking for a way to get himself - and his followers - out of sight of both Lolth *and* Skuld.
***
***
I have no problems with Nesme - or at least it's Riders - being portrayed as dicks. My own memories of the novels in question support this point of view. I'm just playing the devil's advocate in regards to just how big a bunch of dicks they are.
It's sort of like the answers listed on tvtropes in regards to whether or not SG-1's Ancients were neglectful; just about every poster thinks they are, the arguments are over just how heavy the sentence should be.
***
***
I can see Lars and Skuld having trouble convincing a lot of the local gods and movers-and-shakers that they *aren't* evil.
I can also see some of the evil gods and movers-and-shakers (especially the Lawful Evil ones) liking how they do business. I've already mentioned that I thought that the devils of the Nine Hells
will be pleasantly surprised by new Chaos.
***
***
Huh, given that Lars (in Chapter 50) shot off one of Lolth's breasts (shortly after Skuld gained control of the Shadow Weave) a week (by Skuld's thoughts) before the battle where he kills a Pit Fiend - and the comments at the beginning of Chapter 51 about the trolls screaming the day before - I would think that it couldn't be earlier than the 8th of Flamerule right now. But the author's word is the author's word, after all.
***
***
According to my copy of the The Forgotten Realms Atlas here's a few of the key dates involved in the Time of Troubles.
Of course, this is all for the original timeline. Given the changes that have resulted so far due to Lars and Skuld (as of the 5th of Flamerule) - and the author's comments that we haven't seen anywhere near the end of the changes (and damage) these two will cause on Toril - everything that hasn't happened yet is suspect.
(If you want more details, ask me.)
Kythorn (June).
- 15: The gods get kicked out of the clubs by Ao.
Flamerule (July).
- Midsummer's Day (1): Helm (god of guardians, and the only god Ao *didn't* kick out of the clubhouse) kills Mystra (goddess of the Weave), for trying to defy Ao's orders. The Weave, basically, goes nuts.
- 18: Bane (god of tyranny, and one of the three gods who stole the Tablets of Fate) is killed.
- 25: Myrkul (current god of the dead, and one the thieves) brings Bane back to life. Kind of.
Eleasias (August).
- 13: Bane fights Torm (god of duty). Both die.
[This, btw, is the best indication that all of the avatars the gods use during the Time of Troubles have basically the same power level available to them. Bane was a Greater god, and Torm was a demigod. (The ranking system - before 4th Ed - was : Overgod (Ao only in FR-verse), Greater god, Intermidiate god, Lesser god, and then Demigod.) Of course, Bane *had* already died once durign the Time of Troubles.]
Eleint (September).
- 26: Cyric murders Bhaal (god of murder, and the third thief).
Marpenoth (October).
- 15: The Battle of Waterdeep occurs. Myrkul dies. Cyric murders Kelemvor. Ao decides that the gods can go back to their homes. Torm is resurrected. Midnight becomes the new goddes of the Weave.
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Re: The Open Door (megacrossover)
Quick note, I did a little UPF update for Darth Fanboy and thus let some of my more darker impulses off the leash. There is some information about new Chaos Earth culture in there if you have the stomach for that sort of thing.
The primary difference between Mislaato and Slaanesh is that Mislaato uses safewords.
The primary difference between Mislaato and Slaanesh is that Mislaato uses safewords.
I love learning. Teach me. I will listen.
You know, if Christian dogma included a ten-foot tall Jesus walking around in battle armor and smashing retarded cultists with a gaint mace, I might just convert - Noble Ire on Jesus smashing Scientologists
You know, if Christian dogma included a ten-foot tall Jesus walking around in battle armor and smashing retarded cultists with a gaint mace, I might just convert - Noble Ire on Jesus smashing Scientologists
Re: The Open Door (megacrossover)
Apart from the standard racial hatred between dwarves and druegar, the druegar were also the race that took his home aided by Shimmergloom (Or whatever that shadow dragon was called).Valorie wrote:Druegar, deep gnome, and kobold are all natural miners and enjoy living underground, so it’s inevitable that they’d need to reach an understanding with Bruenor and the Mithril Hall clan dwarves. I don’t know if Bruenor harbors any grudges against Druegar.
"Power is merely the faculty to act. It is a kinetic quantity few can grasp. The deaths of these fanatics costs me nothing. I can replace them. Because I never stop moving."
-Lucian~Fortuna Saga-
-Lucian~Fortuna Saga-
Re: The Open Door (megacrossover)
Can I get a link for the UPF update you gave Darth Fanboy? I want to know a little more about your new Chaos culture on Earth.
**
Those who bear Lars’ and Skulds’ mark might experience a wide range of side effects: one possibility is a mild compulsive desire to teach others and pass along your skills to those you deem worthy, as education is key in any industrialized society. However, what you teach and who you deem worthy varies per individual, so “hiring whores to show my son the ropes” and “teaching chimpanzees to belch the alphabet” fulfills these criteria.
Other possible side effects:
=Automatic literacy in English and Japanese.
=An insight bonus on all saving throws against any effect that would damage, drain, or otherwise reduce its Intelligence score, similar to the “Secure Intelligence” trait that Amnizu devils possess. Both Skuld and Lars place a heavy emphasis on mental prowess, so this is a subtle defense that protects the mind without it being too powerful.
=A 10% chance that any offspring sired or conceived by the creature bearing the mark will be born naturally psionic and gain 1 bonus power point at 1st level. This benefit does not grant them the ability to manifest powers unless they gain that ability through another source, such as levels in a psionic class.
**
Those who bear Lars’ and Skulds’ mark might experience a wide range of side effects: one possibility is a mild compulsive desire to teach others and pass along your skills to those you deem worthy, as education is key in any industrialized society. However, what you teach and who you deem worthy varies per individual, so “hiring whores to show my son the ropes” and “teaching chimpanzees to belch the alphabet” fulfills these criteria.
Other possible side effects:
=Automatic literacy in English and Japanese.
=An insight bonus on all saving throws against any effect that would damage, drain, or otherwise reduce its Intelligence score, similar to the “Secure Intelligence” trait that Amnizu devils possess. Both Skuld and Lars place a heavy emphasis on mental prowess, so this is a subtle defense that protects the mind without it being too powerful.
=A 10% chance that any offspring sired or conceived by the creature bearing the mark will be born naturally psionic and gain 1 bonus power point at 1st level. This benefit does not grant them the ability to manifest powers unless they gain that ability through another source, such as levels in a psionic class.
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Re: The Open Door (megacrossover)
It's marked with bright colours so you can scroll down to where my contribution starts
Just as a reminder and warning, that is NSFW by a large degree and is me unleashed upon the crude, unapologetic world of UPF. Do not tread lightly there.
Just as a reminder and warning, that is NSFW by a large degree and is me unleashed upon the crude, unapologetic world of UPF. Do not tread lightly there.
I love learning. Teach me. I will listen.
You know, if Christian dogma included a ten-foot tall Jesus walking around in battle armor and smashing retarded cultists with a gaint mace, I might just convert - Noble Ire on Jesus smashing Scientologists
You know, if Christian dogma included a ten-foot tall Jesus walking around in battle armor and smashing retarded cultists with a gaint mace, I might just convert - Noble Ire on Jesus smashing Scientologists