T:SCC 2x12 "Alpine Fields"

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The designation of this episode is

5
13
33%
4
15
38%
3
8
21%
2
0
No votes
1
3
8%
 
Total votes: 39

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Re: T:SCC 2x12 "Alpine Fields"

Post by PREDATOR490 »

Spoiler
I have my doubts about how effective any attempt at nailing Riley will be. She IS hinted at being a Resistance member from the future and she is clearly getting pressured by Jesse into this thus it isnt ENTIRELY her fault. It may even be she has some reason for doing this that hasnt been explained.
A.K.A Her family was killed by Cameron or Allison was a friend etc.

As for who will actually DO the nailing, Derek is unlikely. If Riley is exposed then if he advocates killing / beating the shit out of her, he is going to have to do the same when it comes to Jesse. I dont see him having the balls to do it even if he did threaten her with it before, if anything it looks like he chose to work with her which means he agrees with her reasoning that Cameron needs to be dealt with. Nevermind how badly it is going to look when Jesse uses that fact to potentially blackmail him. He isnt going to look kindly on John letting Cameron kill resistance members let alone one he loves.
As for John, unless Riley is found out in a particularily brutal way I dont see him going for the kill on someone he clearly has a liking for.

Additionally, my faith in blurbs or previews remains zilch. This one looked like Jesse was about to be fucked, instead it turns out not to be, and the one before that had Cameron looking like she was going to ruin 'Ellison's shit' - and it didnt. I will believe it when I actually see them strap Riley or Jesse into a chair and start interrogating them.
As for damage, Cameron had a piece of metal stuck right into the back of her head which apparantly damaged the chip. Logically that piece of metal should have punctured systems within her head and given the chip's position should mean there is PHYSICAL damage to her skull, not just the chip. Thus, the integrity of her skull may be compromised enough to the point that heavier blows will knock her out due to her head being damaged. Thus why she was knocked out here, and knocked out in the car.

I thought Ellison was seeing Terminators as being the work of God, he had that whole 'hand of god shit' when he confronted Silverman. That or he thinks the Connors are saints which really dosent make sense. If he sees them as saints then he should be HELPING them and have mentioned them to Weaver if he truely believes her to be an ally against the machines.
At the very least, after the reveal with Crom. MarkII, he should give Weaver an earful about how wrong this is etc. naturally it will cost him his life but... if you see these things as the devil, you dont work with them do you ?
(Although, in hindsight that would bode true of Cameron, which ironically means Ellison ends up working with Crom. because he saw his 'saints' working with devil spawn too...)

As for the future / past bullshit:
Stopping Skynet - Stops Judgement Day - Stops the Resistance forming - Stops T1 Arnie going back - Stops Kyle Reese going back - Stops John Connor being born - John Connor goes *poof* - T2 Cant happen - TSCC cant happen - meaning Skynet cannot be stopped in a non-existant TSCC by a Non-existant John Connor - Skynet reaserts itself back into existance with John Connor still not existing... Skynet Wins

The only way this works is if TSCC plays this out like Babylon 5 did with War Without End. A.K.A John Connor disappears but is replaced by someone else, perhaps Sarah Connor had a child who becomes the REAL leader of the Resistance. Skynet sends Arnie back, Kyle Reese goes back, falls for Sarah and she has John instead.
Sarah does her recording like she did at the end of T1 but mentions Kyle, a grown up John hearing this recording sends back Kyle Reese in the manner we see in T1 creating a loop that ends with TSCC coming back to the beginning.
They stop skynet - Stops judgement day - etc. etc.
*Time loop starts over again*

The only way this loop breaks is through minor changes, like the building clues we got in TNG's timeloop. Eventually leading to Data figuring it out. In which case the entire point of TSCC, is about making small changes like killing Andy. The issue with that however remains that because Cameron, Derek, John and Sarah's existance rests on actions happening within that loop, the moment it breaks they should dissappear. At the very least, Derek, Jesse, Riley and especially Cameron will vanish.
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Re: T:SCC 2x12 "Alpine Fields"

Post by Solauren »

You assume of course, with people vanishing, that them being out of time doesn't shield them from timeline changes (aka Back to the Future).

We don't know enough about the rules of Terminator Universe time travel and it's effects on time-displaced individuals to make that kind of judgement call.

In fact, so far, it would appear things work like Back to the Future. Otherwise, Jessie and Derek would not have memories of seperate timelines.
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Re: T:SCC 2x12 "Alpine Fields"

Post by Thanas »

As for damage, Cameron had a piece of metal stuck right into the back of her head which apparantly damaged the chip. Logically that piece of metal should have punctured systems within her head and given the chip's position should mean there is PHYSICAL damage to her skull, not just the chip. Thus, the integrity of her skull may be compromised enough to the point that heavier blows will knock her out due to her head being damaged. Thus why she was knocked out here, and knocked out in the car.
A minor nitpick - we know that the chip integrity has been compromised, but I believe this is due to shock damage. Note that the chip wasn't pierced or bent at all. In fact, shock damage is more likely here given that cromartie was also taken out by shock damage to his chip.

As for time travel, Solauren nailed it. All the evidence supports that time-displaced individuals are not changed at all.
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Re: T:SCC 2x12 "Alpine Fields"

Post by Imperial Overlord »

My only complaint with this episode is that the triple eight appeared so far away after shut down Cameron came crashing through the window. They're strong and Cameron isn't that heavy, but she isn't exactly aerodynamic either. It bugged me.

Otherwise, good stuff. I'm curious to how they'll handle the time jump in the rest of the series. It's quite possible they'll ignore it, since the six month later part can pretty easily be sandwiched between episodes.

On the plus side, I liked how dad went head to head with the triple eight twice to try and save his family, brave girl's quiet strength and loyalty despite getting some shit from the rest of her family and the way she rose to every occasion, and seeing Jesse when she was likable.

I'm really looking forward to the resolution of the Jesse/Reilly story. There's a lot of potential for interesting drama and story branching there.
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Re: T:SCC 2x12 "Alpine Fields"

Post by tezunegari »

Spoiler
Apparently the next episode will feature the three dot sign again.
I just have watched episode 2x02 again. And around the 25th to 26th minute they show the ceiling of Johns kiddy room. With stars forming the Sagittarius constellation... The lowest two (the feet) and one star above the belt (the shoulder of the arm holding the bow) are surprisingly darker and... THEY DO FORM A CERTAIN THREE-DOT-SIGN.

Is it just coincendence or might that be important? Or do I have cought the same bug as Sarah and now I'll see that sign everywhere?

Alpine fields gets a 3.
Brave girl staying calm under pressure twice was great. And her simple revelation of her mothers affair... nice.

Could it be that Cameron wasn't thrown through the window but jumped through it? That would explain why the T-888 was so far away.
Then again she could have used the door...

The new information about the future was interesting. The resistance has enough resources to produce a cure for skynets killer-bug and I just love the duct tape on the plasma rifles. They look as if they had to field modify them for human use. Adding shoulder stock pads and gripping surface for the barrel as Terminators wouldn't mind the excess heat.

And a nuclear sub under resistance control doing resupply runs? Either skynet has no offshore forces or they are unable to go sub hunting. It would have been a 4 but the "Jesse's in mortal danger" crap from the preview text receives a -1 penalty. If a preview can't make you interested by stating what might happen and actually lies (The future scenes were Dereks memories again and I assume that Jesse was still alive when Derek went through the TDE because in all their interaction there never was a "But you're dead." scene.)

I can hardly wait for next episode... Spoiler
Sarah and Cameron at a UFO convention. I hope they come up with a way to do the classical "I come in peace." one-liner
As for camerons chip, until they remove it again and show a close up we wont be able to say what kind of damage she has.
The shrapnel might have pierced the CPU holding cylinder and scratched the surface. In T2 directors cut they show how they reset the read/write settings by scratching the surface (I did remove the chip, sarah wanted to go love tapping (cromartie-style) on it...).
Maybe it's not so much the physical CPU that has been damaged but certain connections of the neural network are cut.
Though I'm just speculating there.
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Re: T:SCC 2x12 "Alpine Fields"

Post by neoolong »

tezunegari wrote:Is it just coincendence or might that be important? Or do I have cought the same bug as Sarah and now I'll see that sign everywhere?

Alpine fields gets a 3.
A 3? Three dots again.
Could it be that Cameron wasn't thrown through the window but jumped through it? That would explain why the T-888 was so far away.
Then again she could have used the door...
But, if the plan was to set up the door trap, Cameron might have known not to use the front door. Although it didn't look like she jumped through the window considering how she landed.
The new information about the future was interesting. The resistance has enough resources to produce a cure for skynets killer-bug and I just love the duct tape on the plasma rifles. They look as if they had to field modify them for human use. Adding shoulder stock pads and gripping surface for the barrel as Terminators wouldn't mind the excess heat.
They're also really big. Something that would be less of an issue for Austrian built like a tank motherfuckas.
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Re: T:SCC 2x12 "Alpine Fields"

Post by eyexist »

tezunegari wrote:Is it just coincendence or might that be important? Or do I have cought the same bug as Sarah and now I'll see that sign everywhere?

Alpine fields gets a 3.
*Cough*

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Re: T:SCC 2x12 "Alpine Fields"

Post by Shroom Man 777 »

Just because the Seawolf can make supply runs to Perth doesn't mean that Skynet utterly lacks anti-submarine warfare capabilities. For all we know, every trip could be a harrowing ordeal with the Triple-8 captain going "I hear splashes... Raise the periscopes, DIVE DIVE DIVE!" all the time since we'd have Skynet ships launching depth charges and stuff at them. Yeah.
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Re: T:SCC 2x12 "Alpine Fields"

Post by Sarevok »

I was wondering why would a T-888 make a good sub captain. They are special purpose camouflaged ground combat units intended to operate close to organic foes. Not the type of combat AI Skynet would put on it's sub equivalent units. However T-888s have been seen engaging in tasks ranging from astronomy to ballet dancing to commanding submarines. Maybe they are very very good learners picking up new skills in a fraction of the time it would take to train a human submariner.
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Re: T:SCC 2x12 "Alpine Fields"

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Sarevok wrote:However T-888s have been seen engaging in tasks ranging from astronomy to ballet dancing to commanding submarines. Maybe they are very very good learners picking up new skills in a fraction of the time it would take to train a human submariner.
Cameron is not a T-888.
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Re: T:SCC 2x12 "Alpine Fields"

Post by tezunegari »

Maybe captured and repogrammed T-888s have their skynet write-limitation removed. In T2 they stated that infiltrators get their neural network set to read-only to prevent them "doing to much thinking." I take that as a hint that Terminators are in fact small scale versions of skynet. They can become sentient like skynet did and can at that point actually choose to follow or ignore an order.

If that is the case, a reprogrammed T-888 could have been placed on the sub to learn from an existing submarine commander who later died...
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Re: T:SCC 2x12 "Alpine Fields"

Post by Alyeska »

A terminator is awake at all times. He can captain the ship 24 hours a day and know what the situation is at all times. That is one very big advantage. No combat stress, no need to sleep, always aware of the situation.
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Re: T:SCC 2x12 "Alpine Fields"

Post by TheLostVikings »

Alyeska wrote:A terminator is awake at all times. He can captain the ship 24 hours a day and know what the situation is at all times. That is one very big advantage. No combat stress, no need to sleep, always aware of the situation.
Not to mention that it doesn't need AIR, which means if something goes wrong with the air supply, or parts of the sub gets flooded, it can still function and hopefully get things fixed before everyone dies.

If the air supply got fucked up a human captain would just faint together with the rest of the crew, not so much for a terminator.
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Re: T:SCC 2x12 "Alpine Fields"

Post by Thanas »

^Also, the resistance may lack the facilities for a training programs. I bet it is far easier to just load training software on a semi-sentient computer than starting your own sub program from scratch.

And as for the dangerous voyages, I kinda doubt that. Otherwise, why would anyone permanently detach a trained submariner like Jessie to land commands?
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Re: T:SCC 2x12 "Alpine Fields"

Post by Shroom Man 777 »

Is she a trained submariner? They had one sub, they probably had more than enough submariners to go around.

Maybe in her sick state, she got left behind in LA? I mean, would you want to put someone who was violently sick with a bioweapon in a confined space with your crew of badass Namors? A diseased woman who was just cured by an experimental antidote?

She probably had to stay in LA for tests and evaluations, while her sub went ahead without her.

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Re: T:SCC 2x12 "Alpine Fields"

Post by Thanas »

Shroom Man 777 wrote:Is she a trained submariner? They had one sub, they probably had more than enough submariners to go around.

Maybe in her sick state, she got left behind in LA? I mean, would you want to put someone who was violently sick with a bioweapon in a confined space with your crew of badass Namors? A diseased woman who was just cured by an experimental antidote?

She probably had to stay in LA for tests and evaluations, while her sub went ahead without her.

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No, that is not what I am asking. I am asking why would a sub sent one of its crew on an away mission in the first place if there was a dangerous voyage ahead? Especially when that one crewmember has survived at least one trip before?
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Re: T:SCC 2x12 "Alpine Fields"

Post by Shroom Man 777 »

They felt compelled to do so, but didn't want to take too much a risk. So they sent only one person.

If there was a dangerous voyage ahead, what could Jesse do? She's a soldier, not some vital crew engineer person. A dangerous voyage would involve getting torpedoed and sunk and there's nothing Jesse could do about it. They could get boarded, yeah, but there's nothing she can do about that either. She's superfluous and so she got sent to that place to check around.
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Re: T:SCC 2x12 "Alpine Fields"

Post by Thanas »

^Where is her function stated?

Also, if she was superfluous, what is she doing on a submarine in the first place?
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Re: T:SCC 2x12 "Alpine Fields"

Post by Shroom Man 777 »

Would you send engineers, navigators or ensigns on Away Missions? It's for Redshirts, landlubbers. Sailors don't go on land missions, unless if their Naval Infantry, Navy SEALs or something,

Okay, maybe she's not entirely superfluous. She could be on the sub on the first place to secure their cargo when they make land, to act as security and as insurance... in case if Captain Trip 8 goes rogue (in the sub). The Chrome Tide! With Robot Gene Hackman!

I'm just saying that sending on Jesse to land to check a signal isn't proof that the sub voyages are danger free.
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Re: T:SCC 2x12 "Alpine Fields"

Post by Thanas »

Shroom Man 777 wrote:Would you send engineers, navigators or ensigns on Away Missions? It's for Redshirts, landlubbers. Sailors don't go on land missions, unless if their Naval Infantry, Navy SEALs or something,

Okay, maybe she's not entirely superfluous. She could be on the sub on the first place to secure their cargo when they make land, to act as security and as insurance... in case if Captain Trip 8 goes rogue (in the sub). The Chrome Tide! With Robot Gene Hackman!
Heh. But the Jimmy Carter is mostly making cargo trips (food runs). I would rather say that they do not have spare cabins for superfluous personal.
I'm just saying that sending on Jesse to land to check a signal isn't proof that the sub voyages are danger free.
Eh, you're right. However given that the seawolf does important missions (food runs) suggests to me that it must be pretty safe if they consider even one crewmember expendable.
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Re: T:SCC 2x12 "Alpine Fields"

Post by Shroom Man 777 »

She's not integral to the operation of the sub, she's not a gearhead or anything. She is expendable. I hate her.

I mean, come on. If the seas are safe, then crew members can be expendable. If the seas are patrolled by aquatic killbots, then one crew member who doesn't do vital functions (because she's just infantry) totally doesn't matter.

Besides, maybe the sub was supposed to rendezvous with people from that base that got bio-bomed. Maybe that bio-bombed base was the drop-off point or something. Whatever.
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