UN Authorizes Attacks On Pirate Bases

N&P: Discuss governments, nations, politics and recent related news here.

Moderators: Alyrium Denryle, Edi, K. A. Pital

Post Reply
User avatar
FSTargetDrone
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 7878
Joined: 2004-04-10 06:10pm
Location: Drone HQ, Pennsylvania, USA

UN Authorizes Attacks On Pirate Bases

Post by FSTargetDrone »

Story from here:
UN gives OK to land, air attacks on Somali pirates
Tue Dec 16, 6:21 pm ET

UNITED NATIONS – On the same day Somali gunmen seized two more ships, the U.N. Security Council voted unanimously Tuesday to authorize nations to conduct land and air attacks on pirate bases on the coast of the Horn of Africa country.

Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice was on hand to push through the resolution, one of President George W. Bush's last major foreign policy initiatives.

Rice said the resolution will have a significant impact, especially since "pirates are adapting to the naval presence in the Gulf of Aden by traveling further" into sea lanes not guarded by warships sent by the U.S. and other countries.

The council authorized nations to use "all necessary measures that are appropriate in Somalia" to stop anyone using Somali territory to plan or carry out piracy in the nearby waters traversed each year by thousands of cargo ships sailing between Asia and the Suez Canal.

That includes the use of Somali airspace, even though the U.S. appeased Indonesia, a council member, by removing direct mention of it, U.S. officials said.

Somalia Foreign Minister Ali Ahmed Jama, whose government asked for the help, said he was "heartened" by the council action. "These acts of piracy are categorically unacceptable and should be put to an end," he said.

The resolution sets up the possibility of increased American military action in Somalia, a chaotic country where a U.S. peacekeeping mission in 1992-93 ended with a humiliating withdrawal of troops after a deadly clash in Mogadishu, as portrayed in the movie "Black Hawk Down."

The commander of the U.S. Navy's 5th Fleet expressed doubt last week about the wisdom of staging ground attacks on Somali pirates. Vice Adm. Bill Gortney told reporters it is difficult to identify pirates and said the potential for killing innocent civilians "cannot be overestimated."

Rice played down the differences between the State Department and Pentagon, telling reporters that the U.S. was fully committed to preventing pirates from establishing a sanctuary.

"What we do or do not do in cases of hot pursuit we'll have to see, and you'll have to take it case by case," she said. "I would not be here seeking authorization to go ashore if the United States government, perhaps most importantly, the president of the United States, were not behind this resolution."

Spurred by widespread poverty in their homeland, which hasn't had a functioning government for nearly two decades, Somali pirates are evading an international naval flotilla to intercept huge tankers, freighters and other ships to hold for ransom. A tugboat operated by the French oil company Total and a Turkish cargo ship became the latest victims Tuesday.

Pirates have hijacked more than 40 vessels off Somalia's 1,880-mile coastline this year. Before the latest seizures, maritime officials said 14 vessels remained in pirate hands — including a Saudi tanker carrying $100 million worth of crude oil and a Ukrainian ship loaded with tanks and other heavy weapons. Also held are more than 250 crew members.

Rice said the resolution will allow the tougher action needed to quell the piracy, which she blamed on Somalia's turmoil.

"Once peace and normalcy have returned to Somalia, we believe that economic development can return to Somalia," she said. "This current response is a good start."

Under the resolution, nations must first get a request for an attack from Somalia's weak U.N.-backed government, which itself would be required to notify U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon before any attack.

"Piracy is a symptom of the state of anarchy which has persisted in that country for over 17 years," Ban told the council. "This lawlessness constitutes a serious threat to regional stability and to international peace and security."

In Washington, Pentagon spokesman Bryan Whitman declined to discuss any possible military operations, but acknowledged there are "practical challenges" to combating pirates. He said the U.S. would continue to work with allies in the region and encourage shipping companies to take prudent measures to protect their vessels.

The United Nations also has been urging shipping and insurance companies not to pay ransom for captured ships, saying that encourages more piracy.

He Yafei, China's vice minister for foreign affairs, told the Security Council that China is considering sending warships to the Gulf of Aden, where they would join ships from the U.S., Russia, Denmark, Italy and other countries.

Kenya's military chief, Gen. Jeremiah Kianga, said Tuesday his country will increase patrols along its own coast because the Somali piracy has made business at Kenya's main port more expensive. The Kenyan air force and navy will not enter Somali air space or waters, he said.

Antonio Maria Costa, executive director of the Vienna, Austria-based U.N. Office on Drugs and Crime, said Tuesday that it is important for nations to jointly confront pirates.

"Regional cooperation is essential," Costa said. "A few years ago, piracy was a threat to the Straits of Malacca (in Southeast Asia). By working together, Indonesia, Malaysia, Singapore and Thailand managed to cut the number of attacks by more than half since 2004."
___
Associated Press writers Ahmed Al-Haj in San'A, Yemen, William J. Kole in Vienna, Austria, and Barbara Surk in Dubai, United Arab Emirates, contributed to this report.
So within the past week or so, they've started putting armed guards on cargo vessels and now this. Interesting developments, to be sure.
Image
User avatar
Darth Yoshi
Metroid
Posts: 7342
Joined: 2002-07-04 10:00pm
Location: Seattle
Contact:

Re: UN Authorizes Attacks On Pirate Bases

Post by Darth Yoshi »

Well, at least somebody has sense. This won't change anything, and will likely just make the situation worse.
Image
Fragment of the Lord of Nightmares, release thy heavenly retribution. Blade of cold, black nothingness: become my power, become my body. Together, let us walk the path of destruction and smash even the souls of the Gods! RAGNA BLADE!
Lore Monkey | the Pichu-master™
Secularism—since AD 80
Av: Elika; Prince of Persia
User avatar
The Grim Squeaker
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 10319
Joined: 2005-06-01 01:44am
Location: A different time-space Continuum
Contact:

Re: UN Authorizes Attacks On Pirate Bases

Post by The Grim Squeaker »

Darth Yoshi wrote:Well, at least somebody has sense. This won't change anything, and will likely just make the situation worse.
So, your solution is? A massive multilateral force to stabilize the nation like in Iraq perhaps? the immense expense of armed guards and convoys? privateers? Not any of that of course, so what's your solution to the terrorists/guerillas?
Photography
Genius is always allowed some leeway, once the hammer has been pried from its hands and the blood has been cleaned up.
To improve is to change; to be perfect is to change often.
User avatar
Sea Skimmer
Yankee Capitalist Air Pirate
Posts: 37390
Joined: 2002-07-03 11:49pm
Location: Passchendaele City, HAB

Re: UN Authorizes Attacks On Pirate Bases

Post by Sea Skimmer »

Darth Yoshi wrote:Well, at least somebody has sense. This won't change anything, and will likely just make the situation worse.
Please do feel free to explain how pirates will suddenly be even more able to attack shipping when they no longer have the refugee as they have enjoyed for years of more and more frequent attacks.
"This cult of special forces is as sensible as to form a Royal Corps of Tree Climbers and say that no soldier who does not wear its green hat with a bunch of oak leaves stuck in it should be expected to climb a tree"
— Field Marshal William Slim 1956
User avatar
Guardsman Bass
Cowardly Codfish
Posts: 9281
Joined: 2002-07-07 12:01am
Location: Beneath the Deepest Sea

Re: UN Authorizes Attacks On Pirate Bases

Post by Guardsman Bass »

Exactly. This allows them to go right after the home territory that these guys like to sit on between raids.

I do have one question, though - what does this do with regards to the legal issues surrounding the search and seizure of Somali ships? Can they simply sink pirate ships on sight?
“It is possible to commit no mistakes and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life.”
-Jean-Luc Picard


"Men are afraid that women will laugh at them. Women are afraid that men will kill them."
-Margaret Atwood
Pelranius
Sith Marauder
Posts: 3539
Joined: 2006-10-24 11:35am
Location: Around and about the Beltway

Re: UN Authorizes Attacks On Pirate Bases

Post by Pelranius »

Well, you would have to be able to confirm it was a pirate ship in the first place, which is difficult. The pirates could just throw their weapons overboard (it's not like obtaining AK-47s and RPGs is hard to do in that place of the world, anyways).
Turns out that a five way cross over between It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia, the Ali G Show, Fargo, Idiocracy and Veep is a lot less funny when you're actually living in it.
User avatar
Darth Yoshi
Metroid
Posts: 7342
Joined: 2002-07-04 10:00pm
Location: Seattle
Contact:

Re: UN Authorizes Attacks On Pirate Bases

Post by Darth Yoshi »

DEATH wrote:So, your solution is? A massive multilateral force to stabilize the nation like in Iraq perhaps? the immense expense of armed guards and convoys? privateers? Not any of that of course, so what's your solution to the terrorists/guerillas?
As it is, Somalia is a shithole and its government can barely be called one. Bombing the pirates will suppress them, but without stabilizing the country and massive economic investment, the conditions that led to piracy in the first place will simply be exacerbated and ten years down the road we'll be doing this again. So yes, my solution would be an occupation to enforce order—a competently run one, mind you—coupled with public works projects and corporate investment to get money into the country and flowing.
Sea Skimmer wrote:Please do feel free to explain how pirates will suddenly be even more able to attack shipping when they no longer have the refugee as they have enjoyed for years of more and more frequent attacks.
Don't put words in my mouth. Unless steps are taken to actually improve the standard of living in Somalia, in the long run nothing will change.
Image
Fragment of the Lord of Nightmares, release thy heavenly retribution. Blade of cold, black nothingness: become my power, become my body. Together, let us walk the path of destruction and smash even the souls of the Gods! RAGNA BLADE!
Lore Monkey | the Pichu-master™
Secularism—since AD 80
Av: Elika; Prince of Persia
User avatar
The Duchess of Zeon
Gözde
Posts: 14566
Joined: 2002-09-18 01:06am
Location: Exiled in the Pale of Settlement.

Re: UN Authorizes Attacks On Pirate Bases

Post by The Duchess of Zeon »

Darth Yoshi wrote:Don't put words in my mouth. Unless steps are taken to actually improve the standard of living in Somalia, in the long run nothing will change.
And you think we don't know that? So we'll just still be patrolling for pirates off the coast of Somalia in 2108.

So what?

Ideally the Navy will never be called upon to fight a war, so why not use it to suppress pirates, rather than.. fight a war?

Does it really matter if we spend an amount of money shooting up pirate towns and patrolling off Somalia equal to the amount of money earmarked in defense appropriations bills for rebuilding the sewer system of Minot, North Dakota every couple of months on having a few frigates cruise back and forth off the coast of Somalia?

Piracy has been a problem since people first invented boats, and only lavish expenditures have brought it under control via the colonization method you propose.. And then only for a century or so before the colonization collapses and it's back to the same old business again since nobody is willing to sustain the control over a restive region like that. So why not just let the navy cut their teeth every couple of years?
The threshold for inclusion in Wikipedia is verifiability, not truth. -- Wikipedia's No Original Research policy page.

In 1966 the Soviets find something on the dark side of the Moon. In 2104 they come back. -- Red Banner / White Star, a nBSG continuation story. Updated to Chapter 4.0 -- 14 January 2013.
User avatar
Sea Skimmer
Yankee Capitalist Air Pirate
Posts: 37390
Joined: 2002-07-03 11:49pm
Location: Passchendaele City, HAB

Re: UN Authorizes Attacks On Pirate Bases

Post by Sea Skimmer »

Darth Yoshi wrote:Don't put words in my mouth. Unless steps are taken to actually improve the standard of living in Somalia, in the long run nothing will change.
You said it could get worse if we took action, I called you on it and I see you still make no attempt to justify that claim. Whatever. But please, do still suggest a realistic course of action and why it would work better.

Meanwhile I see it like this. The country has been a shit hole its whole existence, and hasn’t had a government since 1990… and yet piracy was not a significant issue until the last couple years. So yeah, it is reasonable to assume given that evidence that we can suppress piracy and not improve the country because that’s EXACTLY how it existed before. I mean the damn pirates are even attacking the damn aid ships we DO in fact send, now each one has to have a full fledged naval escort. A whole lot of other places are filled with poor impoverished people with no hope of improvement too, and yet they don’t go attacking ships 600 miles out to sea. Right now these people are living in a consequence free world and its high time that was changed. Even if we gave them a nice aid package, they aren’t going to just give up multimillion dollar ransom payments to go plow up dirt and plants seeds.

A couple bombing raids, shore bombardments and a naval landing might not end piracy forever… but that’s hardly relevant. It will end the problem for now, that’s a fact proven by history. If it comes back we can stamp it out like the bug it is yet again. You want to turn Somalia into a functional state, we tried that in the early 1990s in case you forgot, and its not going to work unless we engage in a far greater level of brutality to wipe out all the tribes, and the Islamic groups and then rebuild and reeducate from the ground up.
"This cult of special forces is as sensible as to form a Royal Corps of Tree Climbers and say that no soldier who does not wear its green hat with a bunch of oak leaves stuck in it should be expected to climb a tree"
— Field Marshal William Slim 1956
Post Reply