I've played/read through a handful of systems that support space battles. My first blush was with the SW d20 system (which, let's be honest, was basically D&D 3e in Stormtrooper armor), and the mechanics therein were deplorable. My next experience was with Silhouette 3e's space combat system, as implemented for a Heavy Gear game. While I really like Silhouette, it's not a fast system. I've also read over GURPS Space and have yet to decide how I feel about it.
Has anyone come across a really fun, fast, semi-plausible system for space battles/dogfighting? Here are some of the things I'm looking for:
Similar in style to neo-BSG space combat (though support for shields and such is okay), rather than WW2-style aerial battle a la Star Wars
Fighters are a valid component, capital ships slug it out, but real physics is the order of the day
Has a minimal learning curve (I love technical, fiddly systems, but a lot of the people I play with are, er, not math-inclined)
Is quick to resolve each "action" (combats can be long and drawn out, but only if the individual pieces are fast)
Can require visualization (i.e. a flat battlemat with miniatures), but must either abstract the z-depth component or render it plausibly irrelevant
Is scalable (i.e. can go from a few hundred m/s to thousands of Gs; can support human-scale people to kilometers-long warships)
If your expectations are that specific, you're probably going to have to write it yourself.
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The only system I'm aware of that even comes close is Battletech, and that might be a little too slow and math heavy for your group. Particularly since it takes into account the whole "no friction in space" thing.
Aerotech is pretty decent, but glacially slow, especially if you drop warships into the mix. I personally enjoy it, but then again, I'm odd that way.
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You should try Heavy Gear tactical air support or Luftkrieg. Both are easily converted into fighters in space type of combat. Specially if your players are already familiar with HG ground combat. I recall luftkrieg even has rules for airships which are usefull when modeling capital ships.
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White Haven wrote:Aerotech is pretty decent, but glacially slow, especially if you drop warships into the mix. I personally enjoy it, but then again, I'm odd that way.
It's not that slow if you limit the number of combatants. But yeah, and it's very theme specific. Stuff like heat playing into the mix.
If math is your concern, use MS Excel or Openoffice Calc to do the heavy lifting. Plug all the formulas into it, leaving a few spaces for values you can enter yourself, and then you're ready to go. I use MS Excel, random number generation, and a whole series of IF AND OR NOT logic statements along with tables and the LOOKUP function to do GURPS and handle Dark Heresy. It helps streamline play, and with a bit of trial and error and some planning you can have those functions figured out in a day or so.
Davey wrote:If math is your concern, use MS Excel or Openoffice Calc to do the heavy lifting. Plug all the formulas into it, leaving a few spaces for values you can enter yourself, and then you're ready to go. I use MS Excel, random number generation, and a whole series of IF AND OR NOT logic statements along with tables and the LOOKUP function to do GURPS and handle Dark Heresy. It helps streamline play, and with a bit of trial and error and some planning you can have those functions figured out in a day or so.
I'd ideally like the players to understand the system. I'm happy to dig into Excel and work with the most accurate systems imaginable. Most players are not. They want to say, "My ship can move 6 spaces, I roll this die to hit that guy," and leave anything more complex out of the picture. I'm looking for something that will account for their needs, but satisfy the desire for it to "feel" more real.
McC wrote:I've played/read through a handful of systems that support space battles. My first blush was with the SW d20 system (which, let's be honest, was basically D&D 3e in Stormtrooper armor), and the mechanics therein were deplorable. My next experience was with Silhouette 3e's space combat system, as implemented for a Heavy Gear game. While I really like Silhouette, it's not a fast system. I've also read over GURPS Space and have yet to decide how I feel about it.
Has anyone come across a really fun, fast, semi-plausible system for space battles/dogfighting? Here are some of the things I'm looking for:
Similar in style to neo-BSG space combat (though support for shields and such is okay), rather than WW2-style aerial battle a la Star Wars
Fighters are a valid component, capital ships slug it out, but real physics is the order of the day
Has a minimal learning curve (I love technical, fiddly systems, but a lot of the people I play with are, er, not math-inclined)
Is quick to resolve each "action" (combats can be long and drawn out, but only if the individual pieces are fast)
Can require visualization (i.e. a flat battlemat with miniatures), but must either abstract the z-depth component or render it plausibly irrelevant
Is scalable (i.e. can go from a few hundred m/s to thousands of Gs; can support human-scale people to kilometers-long warships)
Can require any variety of dice
Jovian Chronicles, by the creators of Heavy Gear, does a decent job with this. The "Fighters" are commonly big mecha, but actual fighters are used as well.
I've used the Silhouette system to scale up very nicely, and it works very well on that regard. I still have plans to do a big old planetary invasion set piece with players dropping onto a planet or station to take out planetary defenses to allow the invasion to happen in force.
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Hotfoot wrote:
Jovian Chronicles, by the creators of Heavy Gear, does a decent job with this. The "Fighters" are commonly big mecha, but actual fighters are used as well.
I've used the Silhouette system to scale up very nicely, and it works very well on that regard. I still have plans to do a big old planetary invasion set piece with players dropping onto a planet or station to take out planetary defenses to allow the invasion to happen in force.
They have faster play versions of the rules, 'Lightning Strike' that may fit your needs better. MEcha and fighters are usually fine, stunned or disabled, with no damage tracking aside from penalty counters. Bigger ships of course get more detail.
If you can get hold of it, the old Star Frontiers game from TSR and specifically its Knight Hawks box had a system that met quite a few of your needs, but it would require rewriting several parts of it. We did that for a game of ours and it turned out to be a fairly flexible and fast-paced system playable on a hex map. The box also had a great set of counters with it and the hex map.
But probably more hassle and effort than you're looking for to get it.
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There is a BSG RPG, but I have no experience with it. I used the same system in the Serenity RPG and was relatively satisfied with how it handled ground combat, at least.
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Arthur_Tuxedo wrote:If your expectations are that specific, you're probably going to have to write it yourself.
The combination of high play speed, low complexity, newtonian motion AND scalability means that there's pretty much zero chance he'll be able to use an existing system unmodified, so as always the best option is just to shanghai mechanics and arrange them yourself. It isn't even hard, and it doesn't involve using pre-existing systems designed by retards, for retards.
