Star F.I.S.T + Hammer's Slammers

[TheMuffinKing]

During the Star F.I.S.T. series, the planet Kingdom is invaded by the Skink race, an amphibious salamander like race that used acid shooting weapons and buzzsaw LMG's and what not.

Here's the Wiki: StarFist.

Here is a relevant novel: Kingdom's Swords

Here's the Hammer's Wiki: Hammer's Slammers

For this scenario lets assume that the rulers of Kingdom, before requesting assistance from the fleet, puts out a call for mercenaries in order to quietly solve their skink problem. Heeding this call, by act of Odin, are Hammer's Slammers and due to the massive payment negotiated upon, 90% of the whole company arrives and begins operations. The Slammers primary missions include investigating destroyed settlements and search and destroy missions against the Skinks, additionally the Slammers will be training Kingdom military forces and using them on missions where possible.

Can they stop Skink advance on Kingdom and basically pre-empt the actions taken by the F.I.S.T.? Do you think a training program of Kindom's military undertaken by the Slammers would be of any benefit?

I apologize for the lack of more detailed information. Stuff on the skinks seems hard to find.

[Imperial Overlord]

Hammer's Slammers is a mechanized regiment in the early books and an elite designation of the Freistat military in the latter books when Colonel Hammer takes over his homeworld. How many Slammers are committed matters.

A few important factors (I don't know Starfist, so I have no idea how important/easily dealt with these considerations are in universe)

1) Hammer will use WMDs.

2) Hammer's troops will be protected by nuke dampers.

3) Hammer's tanks have massive amounts of armor, antimissile systems, AIs, and can shoot satellites out of orbit.

4) His people are very good at what they do.

[Samuel]

The skinks main weaponry is a backpack mounted acid sprayer. This is entirely useless against competently used armor. The only other trick they have are rail guns. I'm pretty sure the Slammers can backtrack the rounds and toast the launch sites.

Given that the Skinks are beaten back by less than 2000 marines and assorted native troopers... it will be a cakewalk.

[Enigma]

But what if the Skinks unleash a fully functioning Hector? Spoiler

For the uninformed, Hector is a MK XXXIII(?) Bolo.

[Tasoth]

Lets put this in perspective. While I like the Star F.I.S.T. novels, we're dealing with a fighting force that does not use body armor, has no form of armor support aside from their IFVs and drop in from orbit with no support. IIRC, they do put out a network of satellites to gather recon info from orbit, and their ships may even be capable of orbital bombardment, but they had completely forgotten how to take on armor until one of the novels.

And they stomped the skinks.

As far as I know, the Slammers are a true military force, complete with support and competent infantry to support the armor. They're going to roll right over the skinks, even if you give the aliens the advantage of terrain like they had against the F.I.S.T. in their first encounter.

[Samuel]

we're dealing with a fighting force that does not use body armor,

They do use it- shields for plasma and armor for flechettes.

They don't ue armor because the authors forgot the miracle that is active defense.

[dragon]

we're dealing with a fighting force that does not use body armor,

They do use it- shields for plasma and armor for flechettes.

They don't ue armor because the authors forgot the miracle that is active defense.

They use armor in the new books, at least the army does, the marines not guess on most of the planets they fight armor is hard to transport and use. After all armor doesn't work so well in forests and jungles. And two of the books thats were they are fighting.

[Tasoth]

They do use it- shields for plasma and armor for flechettes.

They don't ue armor because the authors forgot the miracle that is active defense.

Yeah, but as of the first book, and I stopped somewhere around Hangfire I think, they actually had to issue body armor to the marines to actually survive combat against the arab horseman armed with rifles. And then they never wore it again.

Also, I was wrong about them lacking artillery. IIRC, they have some snazzy artillery pieces that can be swapped between plasma and chemically propelled explosive munitions.

[Samuel]

Yeah, but as of the first book, and I stopped somewhere around Hangfire I think,

The skinks do an actual invasion in the books after that.

they actually had to issue body armor to the marines to actually survive combat against the arab horseman armed with rifles. And then they never wore it again.

Well, it is heavy and most of their enemies don't use projectile weaponary.

Also, I was wrong about them lacking artillery. IIRC, they have some snazzy artillery pieces that can be swapped between plasma and chemically propelled explosive munitions.

...Why must they butcher physics so?

The series is light popcorn reading- they have a ton of "did not do the research".
I got clued in when they sent in planes to attack tank columns in book 3 instead of orbital bombardment...
Needless to say, a competant military would crush them.

The skinks are even more incompetant, which is sort of odd, given what we have seen of their culture. Honestly, Hammer should be pitted against something more fair or his boys will find it easy money.

[TheMuffinKing]

I got clued in when they sent in planes to attack tank columns in book 3 instead of orbital bombardment...

Did they have orbital bombardment available at the time? I haven't read much of the series and am wondering if they always have ships in orbit.

[Tasoth]

...Why must they butcher physics so?

Not really, the process between switching between plasma and parabolic munitions actually required them to swap out one of the pieces of the gun. IIRC, they could complete it within a few minutes as I think they did it when the horsemen were attacking them.

[Samuel]

...Why must they butcher physics so?

Not really, the process between switching between plasma and parabolic munitions actually required them to swap out one of the pieces of the gun. IIRC, they could complete it within a few minutes as I think they did it when the horsemen were attacking them.

Plasma is lighter than air. It can't be used as an artillary piece. As a howitzer maybe... except plasma rounds can bounce in the series. A howitzer that can be stopped by an angeled surface isn't very useful and additional punch doesn't hold because the rfiles they have can burn through people.

I got clued in when they sent in planes to attack tank columns in book 3 instead of orbital bombardment...

Did they have orbital bombardment available at the time? I haven't read much of the series and am wondering if they always have ships in orbit.

The raptors were deployed from orbit.

[Black Admiral]

...Why must they butcher physics so?

Not really, the process between switching between plasma and parabolic munitions actually required them to swap out one of the pieces of the gun. IIRC, they could complete it within a few minutes as I think they did it when the horsemen were attacking them.

Plasma is lighter than air. It can't be used as an artillary piece. As a howitzer maybe... except plasma rounds can bounce in the series. A howitzer that can be stopped by an angeled surface isn't very useful and additional punch doesn't hold because the rfiles they have can burn through people.

Artillery does not automatically mean indirect fire, and it's stated in Steel Gauntlet (pg. 53) that the point of the plasma-firing mode is for "short-range, direct plasma fire", meaning shooting at visible targets.

[Maxentius]

I was going to comment on the plasma artillery bit since I actually started re-reading Steel Gauntlet yesterday, but Black Admiral beat me to it. The implication was that the 'plasma mode' on the howitzers in question was only capable of direct fire. It takes something like two minutes to reconfigure the gun to plasma fire and involves changing the breech and installing a new power source or something similar.

Also, wrt the orbital bombardment, weren't there standing orders or some such to limit collateral damage to Diamunde? I can't really recall clearly as I last read this book several years ago and haven't gotten back up to that point in the plot. If not, I suppose it's possible that the ships in orbit did not have a viable angle of fire to that point of the surface, and required Raptors to intervene as presumably the enemy tank column would have reached shelter/it's objective before the ships in orbit could maneuver into a good firing angle. If that's even physically feasible, that is.

[Samuel]

I was going to comment on the plasma artillery bit since I actually started re-reading Steel Gauntlet yesterday, but Black Admiral beat me to it. The implication was that the 'plasma mode' on the howitzers in question was only capable of direct fire. It takes something like two minutes to reconfigure the gun to plasma fire and involves changing the breech and installing a new power source or something similar.

Also, wrt the orbital bombardment, weren't there standing orders or some such to limit collateral damage to Diamunde? I can't really recall clearly as I last read this book several years ago and haven't gotten back up to that point in the plot. If not, I suppose it's possible that the ships in orbit did not have a viable angle of fire to that point of the surface, and required Raptors to intervene as presumably the enemy tank column would have reached shelter/it's objective before the ships in orbit could maneuver into a good firing angle. If that's even physically feasible, that is.

That is still rather silly as the standard rifle can burn through tank armor. Not to mention that unlike gunpowder weapons there isn't an advantage to a longer barrel. And since it bounces off surfaces, it is useless against tanks.

They were given orders to limit collateral damage. However, the tank columns had to go through the countryside to reach them this isn't a problem.

And no, there isn't a point where planes could reach them and missiles can't.

[Black Admiral]

That is still rather silly as the standard rifle can burn through tank armor. Not to mention that unlike gunpowder weapons there isn't an advantage to a longer barrel. And since it bounces off surfaces, it is useless against tanks.

Um, are we reading the same books here? Plasma rifles certainly can't burn through tank armour (that was a rather major plot point in Steel Gauntlet), and direct-fire doesn't necessarily mean anti-tank for that matter.

Also; where the feth did you get the idea plasma bolts bounce off surfaces?

[TheMuffinKing]

That is still rather silly as the standard rifle can burn through tank armor. Not to mention that unlike gunpowder weapons there isn't an advantage to a longer barrel. And since it bounces off surfaces, it is useless against tanks.

Um, are we reading the same books here? Plasma rifles certainly can't burn through tank armour (that was a rather major plot point in Steel Gauntlet), and direct-fire doesn't necessarily mean anti-tank for that matter.

Also; where the feth did you get the idea plasma bolts bounce off surfaces?

Yeah, I don't remember rifles burning through armor either, though they did burn out road wheels and optics and stuff in Firestorm.

As for the bouncing, in Firestorm at least, they describe the fist shooting plasma bolts against the ground and having the shots ricochet to their desired location, kind of like playing pool, and it was actually used quite often in the book. I don't recall much being done with artillery in the same manner.

[Maxentius]

It's pretty clearly stated in the book (I can provide pertinent quotations when I get home) that the Diamundian tanks were all but immune to marine small arms. There's a passage that reads to the effect of, "Yeah, you could burn through that with a blaster (in-universe name for their plasma rifles) if it was sitting still, you kept at it long enough, and the tank didn't kill you before you could do it."

I will agree with the orbital bombardment brainbug, however. Starfire's space capabilities have always seemed pretty anemic. The amphibious battlecruiser and its escorts were stated as being the "largest amphibious invasion force the Confederation had ever assembled" or something. The later books also feature space combat to some extent, though it's pretty much glossed over, AFAICR.

[Samuel]

That is still rather silly as the standard rifle can burn through tank armor. Not to mention that unlike gunpowder weapons there isn't an advantage to a longer barrel. And since it bounces off surfaces, it is useless against tanks.

Um, are we reading the same books here? Plasma rifles certainly can't burn through tank armour (that was a rather major plot point in Steel Gauntlet), and direct-fire doesn't necessarily mean anti-tank for that matter.

Also; where the feth did you get the idea plasma bolts bounce off surfaces?

Sorry about that- they can kill tanks with the rounds, but they can't burn through the armor. Although I think Schultz managed to do that...

However, direct fire for artillary is an extremely bad idea if you are using plasma rounds. How is it superior to small arms?

[Maxentius]

Sorry about that- they can kill tanks with the rounds, but they can't burn through the armor. Although I think Schultz managed to do that...

You might be thinking of the scene where they were firing at a parked tank with an open crew hatch, and somebody decided to just keep shooting at the lip of the hatch until all the plasma fire ignited the oxygen inside the crew compartment, or some equally whacky thing. I say whacky because I have no idea if such a feat is actually physically possible.

[Samuel]

Sorry about that- they can kill tanks with the rounds, but they can't burn through the armor. Although I think Schultz managed to do that...

You might be thinking of the scene where they were firing at a parked tank with an open crew hatch, and somebody decided to just keep shooting at the lip of the hatch until all the plasma fire ignited the oxygen inside the crew compartment, or some equally whacky thing. I say whacky because I have no idea if such a feat is actually physically possible.

Probably.The guns can turn rock into magma- I think superheating the air so that the crew inside burns to death isn't so hard. It depends on how conductive the tank is and how much heat it can store.