Spontanious Human Combustion - Does it exist?

Bob McDob · Post by **Bob McDob** » 2003-02-02 02:32am

Discuss.

I think it might, but in a form that is neither spontanious nor involves combustion

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2003-02-02 03:03am

No, absolutely not. There is no evidence to suggest that it does, just a lot of stories. The human body does not readily burn, and even though fat burns well, you would need an external source to make it so. Which is not spontaneous.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-02-02 03:03am

It's a documented phenomenon. What the explanation for it is remains to be seen but it has happened.

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2003-02-02 03:07am

Yes, but only with flamethrowers.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2003-02-02 03:10am

I don't doubt there are instances of corpses igniting, but it can't be spontaneous; massive amounts of heat are needed to cremate a human body. There has to be at least some external influence, it can't be completely spontaneous, unless the deceased has eaten something or combinations of things that burn very easily.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2003-02-02 03:27am

Thus the World's Smartest Man, Who is Never Wrong spake:
http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a1_205b.html

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-02-02 03:43am

Its all a load of bull.

jaeger115 · Post by **jaeger115** » 2003-02-02 04:06am

That's impossible how a person can just go up in flames at 3000 degrees or so yet the walls and ceilings are unscathed.

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2003-02-02 04:51am

Considering that the people who think it does exist also think that nuclear fusion is the cause, I'd say that their word is questionable at best.

Spoonist · Post by **Spoonist** » 2003-02-02 05:50am

To explain things I will give you a totally different story:

Once in my youth we where going to have a pig-party.
One roasted pig & more than one keg of beer.
Problem was, the guys who where in charge of the barbeque wasn't smart so they bought a WHOLE pig, not even one that was chopped in half.
They put it on a stick like they seen in so many movies and put some coal underneath.
Now when the party started noone wanted to eat from the pig, since it wasn't even close to being cooked. But having lots of beer the party went quite well anyway with the help of some Pizzas. During the dancing someone bumped into the pig which fell onto the coal. A while later the smell of burning fat made us throw some water on the coal to put out the fire. As it seemed to work noone cared more for the pig and left it there.
Now to the point of the story:
In the morning (sure OK not really in the morning but rather in the afternoon) when people started to wake up the pig was almost GONE.
The only remains of the pig was its parts of two legs and its hooves. Also the coal at the ends was still soaked in water. This led to the belief that someone really stupid and drunk would have eaten parts of it since there was almost no bones found in the fire.

What really had happened was easy to see when you looked through the fire. There had been a small fire in the coals directly beneath the pig. This had slowly melted the pigs fat and flesh, which gave more fuel to the small fire. But the fire had never become so hot that it boiled away all the water (but most of it). You could see the where the chared pieces that was left had clear markings of fire at one end and was raw at the other.

I think that the same principle would apply to a human being.

InnerBrat · Post by **InnerBrat** » 2003-02-02 06:13am

According to the school of 'what I saw on telly once':

The UL of SHC only exists in Western culture, which does suggest that it's a recent idea. he documented cases include an almost complete combustion of the body, often leaving behind the legs and feet.
Often, object high up in the room, like a raised TV, are melted while the rest of the room is untouched.

The theory is, that is is the result of a very slow burning as a result of the wick effect - body fat soaks into the clothing and burns, while the victim is unconscious (and later dead) and unable to put it out. An initial fuel, such as spilled alcohol, is needed as well to start of the slow burning of the clothee. the legs survive because they are not covered. The intense heat rises and affects objects high up.

This has been mirrored in lab condidtions using a pig carcass wrapped in blankets.

DPDarkPrimus · Post by **DPDarkPrimus** » 2003-02-02 11:55am

A lot of things are possible... but spontanious combustion is rather improbable.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-02-02 12:41pm

No one has ever witnessed spontaneous human combustion. Every single case of SHC has involved somebody finding a charred body in place, with little damage to the surrounding area and assuming that the person mus have spontaneously combusted even when there were numerous alternate possibilities (many of them were elderly smokers, for example).

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Since it is physically possible for someone to have a heart attack or stroke and die, and then ignite themselves via a candle or cigarette and burn slowly without necessarily lighting the entire room on fire, it is completely unreasonable for anyone to propose something as silly as SHC unless they've seen it happen, and no one ever has.

InnerBrat · Post by **InnerBrat** » 2003-02-02 12:42pm

Darth Wong wrote:No one has ever witnessed spontaneous human combustion. Every single case of SHC has involved somebody finding a charred body in place, with little damage to the surrounding area and assuming that the person mus have spontaneously combusted even when there were numerous alternate possibilities (many of them were elderly smokers, for example).

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Since it is physically possible for someone to have a heart attack or stroke and die, and then ignite themselves via a candle or cigarette and burn slowly without necessarily lighting the entire room on fire, it is completely unreasonable for anyone to propose something as silly as SHC unless they've seen it happen, and no one ever has.

'SWhat I said...

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-02-02 12:49pm

innerbrat wrote:'SWhat I said...

Sorry. I just wanted to flatly point out that no one's ever seen it.

InnerBrat · Post by **InnerBrat** » 2003-02-02 12:51pm

OK, yep. I dont' think i made that clear. Sorry.

Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi · Post by **Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi** » 2003-02-02 01:43pm

I heard tht many of the people who may have spontaneously combusted were heavy drinkers, and advocates said that it may have been caused by the alcohol in tiher body igniting. Even then, I don't think that passes as spontaneous.

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2003-02-02 01:47pm

Like I said, a lot of the people who think spontaneous human combustion exists also think that nuclear fusion taking place in your body's water is the cause. I'm not even joking.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-02-02 01:49pm

Frankly, whenever I hear the words "smoker", "sleep", and "fire" together, I always have an instant hypothesis, and not a lot of sympathy. If you're dumb enough to fall asleep while holding a small burning object in your hand, you deserve to die.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2003-02-02 01:52pm

Durandal wrote:Like I said, a lot of the people who think spontaneous human combustion exists also think that nuclear fusion taking place in your body's water is the cause. I'm not even joking.

Cold fusion?

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2003-02-02 02:00pm

Durran Korr wrote:
Durandal wrote:Like I said, a lot of the people who think spontaneous human combustion exists also think that nuclear fusion taking place in your body's water is the cause. I'm not even joking.
Cold fusion?

There's no such thing as cold fusion; it was, in fact, one of the scientific community's biggest embarrassments because independent reproductions of it showed that the energy release measured was easily explainable by existing mechanisms. I can't remember the specifics, but my physics professor brought it up when we were covering thermodynamics. Basically, he said that he was glad he wasn't involved with it in any way.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-02-02 02:02pm

My father was still heavily involved in alternative-energy research when that cold-fusion thing came out (he's a nuclear physics PhD, by the way). I remember asking him if he knew anything about it, and he just said "it's probably bullshit". Turned out he was right.

InnerBrat · Post by **InnerBrat** » 2003-02-02 02:31pm

It's one of those things that is only impossible once its been tried.

Occasionally it takes the universe a few minutes to catch up.

Andrew J. · Post by **Andrew J.** » 2003-02-02 02:50pm

Spontaneous? Yeah, spontaneous...I mean, no evil, sadistic entity is actually causing people to burst into flame and writhe and char, and die horribly...spontaneous, yeah, that's the ticket...

*sidles away quickly*

Post by **The Yosemite Bear** » 2003-02-03 03:55am

To reaffirm what I.B. & Wong have said.

I looked it up, in a kinda Macbre fashion a few years ago, and I read a lot of mystery novels. Actually, the wiccing effect has been scientifically demonstarted with corpses. (I am so, donating my remains to the Farm when I die) <It's not like I will need it, and purhaps they can use my body to help catch some killer, or figure out some cure to a desese.>