Somali fighters warn Western powers

[[R_H]]

Al-Jazeera

An armed group battling Ethiopian forces in Somalia has told Al Jazeera it will take its fight beyond the country once it defeats its rivals.

"We are fighting to lift the burden of oppression and colonialism from our country ... We are defending ourselves against enemies who attacked us," Abu Mansoor, the leader of al-Shabab, said.

"Once we are successful with that we will fight on and finish oppression elsewhere on earth," he said.

Al-Shabab, meaning youth, split last year from the Islamic Courts Union which controlled much of Somalia, including the capital Mogadishu, until it was pushed out by government and Ethiopian troops in 2006.
It has since retaken large areas of central and southern Somalia and is putting increased pressure of the transitional government, which exercises little control from its base in the town of Baidoa.

'Islamic rule'

In Marka, just 90km from the capital Mogadishu, Ibrahim Almaqdis, one of the fighters, told Al Jazeera: "We wish to tell Bush and our opponents our real intentions."We will establish Islamic rule from Alaska and Chile to South Africa, Japan, Russia, the Solomon Islands and all the way to Iceland, be warned, we are coming."

Abu Mansoor said that al-Shabab's ranks had been bolstered by foreign fighters and urged others to join, saying that a core principle of the group was that all Muslims are citizens of Somalia.

"Many have already died fighting our cause and many others are here with us," he said.

"We shall welcome any Muslim from any part of the world who wants to join us. We will allow him to wed our daughters and share our farms."

The group was created in 2001 by four Somali men who had trained in Afghanistan and is listed as a "terrorist organisation" by the US.

Relative peace

The Islamic Courts Union brought relative peace to the Horn of Africa nation during its six months in control, enforcing strict laws and renewing hopes that the Somalia would become stable enough to allow aid agencies the freedom to operate.

However, their defeat by the Ethiopian and government forces has brought renewed violence as various anti-government forces have mounted near-daily attacks.

In Marka, Al Jazeera found people welcoming al-Shabab and dressing their children like the fighters who have been the only people to bring some semblance of peace to Somalia in recent years.

More than one million people have been displaced by the fighting in Somalia, one third of the population rely on emergency food aid and the chaos has helped fuel kidnappings and piracy off the coast.

Wow, what a mouth-breather. Aren't the Ethiopians doing quite well against the Somalis, the conflict hasn't been much in the (more mainstream) news lately?

[Tanasinn]

"Please bomb us!"


This seems like rather silly behavior to me.

[Medic]

They might wanna pick up that gauntlet.

An unfortunate reminder though just from WHERE Al Qaeda & co. grow their ranks: failed states.

[Sea Skimmer]

I vote we let them have the Solomon’s, that place is every bit as fucked up as Somalia itself and for largely the same kind of reasons, is so it’s not like it could get worse. Plus it would be just hilarious watching as both sides salvaged all the UXOs left over from WW2 (literally whole ammo dumps and piles of weapons are still left) and blow themselves up with rust encrusted shells.

[The Yosemite Bear]

by committing acts of piracy other barbarism on the high seas have they not already taken their fight beyond their borders and into the international stage?

[MarshalFoch]

by committing acts of piracy other barbarism on the high seas have they not already taken their fight beyond their borders and into the international stage?

I don't believe this article is talking about the pirates. Not all Somalis are pirates. The pirates are based mainly out of the northeastern tip of Somalia (Puntland), which is one of the three "regions" of Somalia in terms of governance, while the article appears to be talking about the groups like the Islamic Courts Union that are fighting the Ethiopians, AU, and Interim government forces in the Mog and Somalia proper near Kenya where piracy is not as rampant as in the Puntland.

[Shroom Man 777]

What's wrong with them? I can understand that they've been wronged by imperialism and Western dickery in the past and present (and future), but they're just shits living in a shithole, what can they hope to achieve by "waging war on the West" or something? Don't they know what they're getting into? It's totally not worth it and they should just go home and rebuild their homes and sow seeds on their fields or something.

[K. A. Pital]

It's totally not worth it and they should just go home and rebuild their homes and sow seeds on their fields or something.

Driven to the brink of material poverty, a person is a thousand times more eager to literally fight against what he perceives his enemy and opressor is - believe me. Generally shitty conditions in First World nations lead to people burning the cars of what they perceive as a wealthy overclass. Shitty conditions in Third World lead to people actively killing those perceived as the enemy.

Bad material conditions are a catalyst for war, not for peaceful labour. A lack of government ensures that no improvement will be there, ever, so it is certain these people are among the most willing warriors on Earth.

[Shroom Man 777]

It's a vicious cycle. They're angry at living in shitholes and are going to wage a war because of it, and that's just going to make their shitholes even shittier. It's self-destructive and someone should tell them that, make them realize that they're just wasting everyone's time and ammunition.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

It's a vicious cycle. They're angry at living in shitholes and are going to wage a war because of it, and that's just going to make their shitholes even shittier. It's self-destructive and someone should tell them that, make them realize that they're just wasting everyone's time and ammunition.

That's... probably what is happening down in the South of Philippines right now?

[Shroom Man 777]

It's probably what is happening in lots of places, yeah.

Us? We're not a failed state so it's really much less severe a problem. Come on, that place (Somalia) has been like that for... decades?

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

It's probably what is happening in lots of places, yeah.

Us? We're not a failed state so it's really much less severe a problem. Come on, that place (Somalia) has been like that for... decades?

Well, government authority down in the Muslim south is weak and it's often a toss up between the Muslim rebels or the communist ones...

[[R_H]]

Hidden genocide in Somalia - UN

The UN envoy to Somalia, Ahmedou Ould Abdallah, has said there is a "hidden genocide" taking place in the country.

Mr Abdallah spoke as the African Union's peace and security council held urgent talks on how to boost the peacekeeping force there.

Ethiopia says its 3,000 troops will withdraw by the end of the year, which some fear will lead to a power vacuum.

The AU force already in Mogadishu is too small to resist resurgent Islamist and nationalist fighters.

UN head Ban Ki-moon last week rejected calls for UN peacekeepers to be sent.

No peace

He said the situation in Somalia was too dangerous and there was no peace to keep. "The Somali problem is a problem for the whole region," said Mr Abdallah, the UN special envoy to Somalia, reports the AFP news agency.

"There is a hidden genocide in Somalia which has sacrificed entire generations."

Somalia has not had a functioning national government since 1991.

Ethiopian troops intervened two years ago to oust Islamists from the capital and install the internationally recognised government.

But that government is now in disarray and different Islamist groups now control much of southern Somalia.

On Sunday, the East African regional group, Igad, decided to impose sanctions on the Somali President Abdullahi Yusuf, after he tried to sack Prime Minister Nur Hassan Hussein.

Parliament last week said the prime minister's dismissal was illegal and gave him an overwhelming vote of confidence.

Weak force

The Ethiopian troops, a weak AU force and troops loyal to the interim Somali government are limited to parts of Mogadishu and the central town of Baidoa, where parliament is based.

The AU ministers now have the task of trying to beef up the AU mission in Somalia, which will no longer have the comfort of knowing it can call for Ethiopian back-up when needed, says the BBC's Elizabeth Blunt in Addis Ababa, where the AU meeting is being held.On Sunday, AU commission head Jean Ping raised the prospect that Nigeria, Uganda and Burundi could each send a battalion - about 850 troops - to bolster the 3,200 peacekeepers already in Mogadishu.

But the AU commissioner for peace and security Ramtane Lamamra on Monday said a possible offer by Nigeria to provide troops needed further clarification.

He also said he did not yet have all the elements he needed to make a firm recommendation on the future of the AU's peacekeeping force in Somalia, Amisom.

The AU special representative for Somalia Nicolas Bwakira said the offers from Burundi and Uganda, whose troops make up the existing force, were conditional on:

• A clear indication that the UN would eventually take over

• The establishment of an inclusive government in Mogadishu

• Receiving support from the international community

Our correspondent says none of these conditions has so far been met.

'Paralysed government'

The foreign ministers of the six-member Inter-governmental Authority on Development (Igad) came out in support of Prime Minister Nur in the political conflict with President Yusuf.

After their meeting, the group said: "[Igad] regrets the attempts by President Yusuf to unconstitutionally appoint a new prime minister that Igad does not recognise, and decides to impose sanctions on him and his associates immediately."

Mr Yusuf had said he sacked the prime minister a week ago because the government had been "paralysed by corruption, inefficiency and treason" and failed to bring peace.

The lack of an effective government has led to the rise of piracy off the Somali coast.

Fighting between pro-government forces and Islamist militias has led more than a million people to flee their homes.

Aid agencies say some three million people need food aid - about a third of the population - but attacks by pirates and militias make it extremely difficult to deliver humanitarian assistance.

I found the following very disappointing

UN head Ban Ki-moon last week rejected calls for UN peacekeepers to be sent.He said the situation in Somalia was too dangerous and there was no peace to keep.

[Shroom Man 777]

Well, government authority down in the Muslim south is weak and it's often a toss up between the Muslim rebels or the communist ones...

The communist rebels are in the central islands, mang. They don't really mix, I think.


It's pretty sad that the new UN chief is pretty much acknowledging Somalia as a lost cause. It just shows how useless interventions are when there's no will at all, and I doubt the African Union can do anything when they've got a whole slew of other problems to worry about.

[The Vortex Empire]

The somali rebels want to spread Islamic rule over the whole world? Heh, good luck with that. A little over ambitious, wouldn't you say?

Sad that the UN is doing nothing to try and pacify Somalia though. Without any foreign help, it's a lost cause.

[Knife]

What's wrong with them? I can understand that they've been wronged by imperialism and Western dickery in the past and present (and future), but they're just shits living in a shithole, what can they hope to achieve by "waging war on the West" or something? Don't they know what they're getting into? It's totally not worth it and they should just go home and rebuild their homes and sow seeds on their fields or something.

err... You can understand they've been wronged by imperialism? Wha?

Sure historically; but that's a cope out. What have they done for me lately?

I'm sorry but outside of the ME, you have a hard time convincing me of western imperialism in shitholial. You just can't say these 'buzzwords' no matter what your postion on America, fuck yeah, you seem to have.

[CJvR]

Perhaps they are confusing the political and legal castration of the naval patrols with inability to blow them to hell if the gloves ever came off.

[Stark]

Perhaps they are confusing the political and legal castration of the naval patrols with inability to blow them to hell if the gloves ever came off.

All political statements are about how big and potent your dick missiles are.

Oh, wait. Political statements serving political ends? Impossible and possibly not simplistic enough for modern news reporting.

[[R_H]]

Perhaps they are confusing the political and legal castration of the naval patrols with inability to blow them to hell if the gloves ever came off.

Those would be the pirates, who are criminals. The al-Shabab are of the same (if not more radical) orientation as the Islamic Court Union, they're jihadis, not pirates.

[Shroom Man 777]

err... You can understand they've been wronged by imperialism? Wha?

Sure historically; but that's a cope out. What have they done for me lately?

I'm sorry but outside of the ME, you have a hard time convincing me of western imperialism in shitholial. You just can't say these 'buzzwords' no matter what your postion on America, fuck yeah, you seem to have.

Generally speaking, I mean. You know, not just imperialism in Somalia (since Western powers don't give a fuck about that place), but imperialism in the "Arab world" and how they must fight for their oppressed Muslim brothers throughout the globe, Jihad Allahu Ackbar Mohammad Ali Derka Derka, etcetera etcetera.

[montypython]

Now is actually the best time to start using Chapter VII powers of the UN charter and begin peacemaking missions (rather than peacekeeping) for once.

[[R_H]]

Now is actually the best time to start using Chapter VII powers of the UN charter and begin peacemaking missions (rather than peacekeeping) for once.

Too bad Ban Ki-moon ruled out the possibility of doing so. It's "too dangerous" and "there is no peace to keep". What a load of shit, apparently having a failed stated in the region is better than trying to establish some kind of stability.

[Rogue 9]

Well there being no peace to keep is why it would be a peacemaking mission. But he's ruled that out as well.

[Tiriol]

Now is actually the best time to start using Chapter VII powers of the UN charter and begin peacemaking missions (rather than peacekeeping) for once.

Too bad Ban Ki-moon ruled out the possibility of doing so. It's "too dangerous" and "there is no peace to keep". What a load of shit, apparently having a failed stated in the region is better than trying to establish some kind of stability.

How many nations would be ready to commit their forces and peacekeepers to the area? The UN cannot do anything about the situation if its members decide not to do anything. And considering the fiascos of Iraq and Afghanistan, many Western powers might be a little bit unwilling to commit themselves into creating a nation. The recent crisis in Georgia and the still unfolding financial crisis are also deterrents: it will cost money to send troopers overseas and some European states might be a little bit hesitant to send their forces away, just in case the Big Bad Russia (tm) decides to go to an another round of Georgia Whoppin'.

And most of all, what could the UN forces do there? How do they establish stability when open civil war and actual anarchy are everywhere and every mother-loving son of a bitch in the region is armed and most likely a member of even more heavily-armed gang? How many peacekeepers (or "peacemakers" , if you want to use Newspeak) would be needed? Iraq might give some idea about the numbers needed.

It would be the moral choice to finally intervene and estabish some sanity. But that moral choice would also cost dearly in a time when everything is uncertain in the world of finance and when nations are unwilling to get involved in the troubles of others. And quite many might judge that cost to be too much.

[Sea Skimmer]

Now is actually the best time to start using Chapter VII powers of the UN charter and begin peacemaking missions (rather than peacekeeping) for once.

Too bad Ban Ki-moon ruled out the possibility of doing so. It's "too dangerous" and "there is no peace to keep". What a load of shit, apparently having a failed stated in the region is better than trying to establish some kind of stability.

You might want to read up on the Congo intervention from 1960 onward to see what happens when the UN actually does try to establish peace.. its not good. Letting a place fester on its own is unlikely to be much worse, and it sure is cheaper at a time when all the existing UN missions are already vastly under strength. The UN is in no state at all to take on another military mission dispite record spending.