Attack on Mesa

[Kitsune]

This is related to the Honorverse universe

This is really for people who know the universe quite well.
Mesa appears to not be directly a part of Solarian League but they have incredibly strong ties.

Assuming that Manticore can even temporarily settle the situation with Haven, do they have enough cause to actual attack Mesa without causing the League to get involved.

I was thinking that if possible, they could send four squadrons of even older SD(P) through Lynx and finish the Mesa problem once and for all.

[consequences]

After the next series of books, they're going to have more than enough cause. What they may no longer have is the capability. Frakking cliffhangers.

[Master_Baerne]

As demonstrated in Shadow of Saganami, a squadron of assorted cruisers and destroyers is quite sufficient to demolish a force of modern League battlecruisers. Manticore wouldn't need superdreadnoughts; a collection of odd battlecruisers and a half-squadron of dreadnoughts ought to be quite sufficient, especially since reinforcements couldn't arrive faster than the Mantie strike force could, thanks to the wormhole and the compensator advantage.

[Kitsune]

I am assuming that Mesa might have a powerful self defense force, say 40 to 60 superdreadnoughts.

Thinking you might want at least about 16 to 20 SD(P) to deal with that.
Do you really want to try doing that with a skeleton force of BC(P)

[Stormbringer]

Assuming that Manticore can even temporarily settle the situation with Haven, do they have enough cause to actual attack Mesa without causing the League to get involved.

Not unless some very, very significant revelations come about. The Mesans have made themselves too useful to the corrupt elements of the League for them to tolerate it.

As demonstrated in Shadow of Saganami, a squadron of assorted cruisers and destroyers is quite sufficient to demolish a force of modern League battlecruisers. Manticore wouldn't need superdreadnoughts; a collection of odd battlecruisers and a half-squadron of dreadnoughts ought to be quite sufficient, especially since reinforcements couldn't arrive faster than the Mantie strike force could, thanks to the wormhole and the compensator advantage.

The attack in Shadow of Saganami is a sucker-punch on an unprepared and unready fleet, and on a low level Verge power at that. The Solarian League, and Mesa probably more so, has some very good technology. Keep in mind it was Solarian tech which was helping the Peeps keep pace during the first war. It was also the basis of much of the Havenite inovation since then.

While the front line Manticorian stuff is very good, they would still need as a bare minimum to bring in things like BC(P)s at the very least as Mesa has a significant, and up to date, Navy protecting the system. The Alliance would more realistically need a squadron of SD(P)s simply because the BC(P)s would shoot themselves dry to mission kill even modern pre-pod superdreadnaughts. The disparity between cruiser weight ships and the wallers is order of magnitude.

[Jalinth72]

Because of Mesa's location, you can't simply waltz in. You would be moving through League space - the local Frontier or Battle Fleet commanders wouldn't be that happy with you and most places reasonably consider running a fleet through their territory uninvited a non-friendly act. Starting a war with the Solarian League isn't in the cards and the Mesans have too much influence unless you had categorical proof that they did it.

Mesa has also been described as having a powerful fleet given its size - not up to Havenite or Manticoran standards but expect modern Solarian designs. So you'd need a proper SD(P)s, which aren't easily freed up due to the massive losses at Manticore.

I wouldn't count on the Tyler battle as representative. You didn't have a full squadron up and running, second rate crewing, and BCs that were being retired as being behind the Frontier Fleet's current standard. All of the Haven/Manticoran battles show that the skill set makes a significant difference - all of the shiny toys don't run themselves and can be fooled if run by fools.

[Ender]

The attack in Shadow of Saganami is a sucker-punch on an unprepared and unready fleet, and on a low level Verge power at that. The Solarian League, and Mesa probably more so, has some very good technology. Keep in mind it was Solarian tech which was helping the Peeps keep pace during the first war. It was also the basis of much of the Havenite inovation since then.

I haven't read the recent books, but at the start of this newest arc dealing with the league, it seemed to me as if weber just retconned that tech edge out of continuity so he could keep having his outnumbered mary sues keep winning their wars.

[Batman]

Technically untrue. Weber just gave the Manties ANOTHER substantial tech edge over everybody else.
To elaborate while the Sollies DID do a good job on catching up to Mantie technology Manticore just HAPPENED to develop a new technology (or more precisely, a new IMPLEMENTATION of existing technology) that allows them to bitchslap their opponents.

[CaptainChewbacca]

What implementation is that?

Oh, and how strong/close an ally is the Andermani empire to Manticore these days?

[Jadeite]

What implementation is that?

Apollo, Spoiler

a new fire control system that provides FTL command links to missiles.

It's basically provided a leap forward in Manticoran missile superiority like the first MDMs did. The only thing keeping them from rolling through Havenite space like with Buttercup is it is yet to be fully integrated into the fleet.

Oh, and how strong/close an ally is the Andermani empire to Manticore these days?

IIRC, they've divided the Silesian Confederacy between them, and the Andermani have also declared war against Haven.