Doctor Who "The Next Doctor" [spoilers]

[NecronLord]

... What the hell?

I'm not sure if that was terrible or awesome in its insanity. A giant steampunk cyberman stomping around 1800s London shooting it up with fireballs and lightning bolts? It's just... so hilariously over the top that it's difficult to react in any cogent way.

Also, I wish, just once, the villain would actually say 'yes, alright then Doctor' and stop blowing up London.

[Captain Seafort]

I'd call it awesome. Stark-staring bonkers, but awesome.

I'm more put out by this: the place is crawling with Cybermen, who are far stronger than any human. So why did they need all the kids to wind the machinery?

[DocHorror]

I quite enjoyed that. My only complaint was that I thought that Jackson should have saved his son not the Doctor.

[DaveJB]

When the Cyber Leader mentioned the Cyber King, I jokingly thought to myself that it'd probably turn out to be a giant Cyberman... and got left dumbstruck when exactly that started rampaging across the screen half an hour later.

Honestly, a steampunk Cyberman might be a pretty cool concept if it were 8 or 10 feet tall... but a 500 foot tall Cyberman is just taking the piss. I'm not sure if RTD genuinely thought it was a good idea, was paying tribute to "Robot," or was just trolling.

[NecronLord]

I'd call it awesome. Stark-staring bonkers, but awesome.

I'm more put out by this: the place is crawling with Cybermen, who are far stronger than any human. So why did they need all the kids to wind the machinery?

I'm leaning towards 'Miss Hartigan put them up to it out of spite' as the only explanation for that. Presumably telling them that every other source of labour would be noticed missing, or something.

Personally, I would have called it a Cyber-Queen. Much more Victorian.

Also, the Daleks don't seem terribly good at holding onto their stuff in the Void, do they? Interestingly, that info-spike had information on the Ninth Doctor, which suggests that either he fought in the Time War, or they got that picture from Torchwood.

[2000AD]

Also, I wish, just once, the villain would actually say 'yes, alright then Doctor' and stop blowing up London.

Well, there were those flesh eating bug things in Silence in the Library / Forest of the Dead after The Doctor told them to look him up.

I wonder where Queen Vic and Torchwood were, they were set up to keep tabs on The Doc and yet they don't come anywhere near either of them.

[DaveJB]

Torchwood was set up in "Tooth and Claw," which took place in 1879 - 18 years after this episode took place.

Was it ever fully explained what the Cybershades were meant to be? I know the Doctor guessed they had the brain of a pig or something, but the question never seemed to get raised again after that - personally I was expecting them to be the missing children, crudely converted, but that doesn't seem to have been the case. And what was with the murder of that guy whose funeral we saw? Was it something to do with the Cyber-USB Stick they found in his house, or was Miss Hartigan just being a dick?

[Captain Seafort]

I'm leaning towards 'Miss Hartigan put them up to it out of spite' as the only explanation for that. Presumably telling them that every other source of labour would be noticed missing, or something.

I was think more in terms of the Cybermen doing the work themselves. Most of them didn't seem to be doing much other than guarding the workforce or worshiping their new boss.

[NecronLord]

Was it ever fully explained what the Cybershades were meant to be? I know the Doctor guessed they had the brain of a pig or something, but the question never seemed to get raised again after that - personally I was expecting them to be the missing children, crudely converted, but that doesn't seem to have been the case.

So was I. But it seems they're animals. Cats or dogs...

And what was with the murder of that guy whose funeral we saw? Was it something to do with the Cyber-USB Stick they found in his house, or was Miss Hartigan just being a dick?

She murdered him to bring the workhouse guys together in one place to be nabbed.

I don't think it was explained why he had a cyberman-USB stick. Presumably it belonged to the cybermen posted in his house, who may have been reviewing it while they waited for something to happen?

I was think more in terms of the Cybermen doing the work themselves. Most of them didn't seem to be doing much other than guarding the workforce or worshiping their new boss.

I expect they didn't want to use up their energy supplies without a generator to recharge (same reason they didn't use their wrist guns). Standing watch uses less energy than toiling. Of course, that begs the question how they built that 'starter motor' in the first place.

[Gemini-Preserver]

I'm glad we got a look at all 9 previous Doctors. A nice little nod to the past.
I was left speechless after this...though not from anger or joy just...speechless

[Captain Seafort]

I'm glad we got a look at all 9 previous Doctors. A nice little nod to the past.

We've seen them before, as sketches in Smith's journal in "Human Nature", but I agree that it was good to see them properly.

[Admiral Valdemar]

It's a pity they couldn't have another Doctor joining in, but still, the giant Cyber King was awesome. Reminded me of a Commander from Total Annihilation, especially with the same sound effects. The plot was somewhat like Steamboy too. I was jokingly thinking they were making a steam castle. Looks like I wasn't far off.

This wasn't just a revolution. It's an M&S revolution.

[Teleros]

Also, I wish, just once, the villain would actually say 'yes, alright then Doctor' and stop blowing up London.

I know. You'd've thought by now that the mere mention of "the Doctor" or "James Bond" would be enough to stop any evildoer in his/her/its tracks. Guess they just don't learn .

[Bounty]

Thanks to my loving family and delicious dessrts, I missed it. Still, leaving people "speechless" in a not-negative way is a good thing for a special to do, so I look forward to watching it - assuming the VCR decided to play nice and actually tape it.

[Johonebesus]

So this is another story with the alternate Cybermen? Why can't they use the native Cybermen? How many times are we going to have Cybermen from an alternate universe yet again cross into the prime with nary a hint that there are already Cybermen in this universe with a history of trying to conquer Earth and more advanced technology?

Also, why can't BBC America show new programming? Did they make some deal with Sci-Fi promising not to show Dr. Who first? Why even bother then? They must know that anyone who has BBC-A must also have Sci-Fi.

[Manus Celer Dei]

Wait. The Doctor recognised the Cyberking as something the Cybermen used for planetary invasions...when have the Cybus Cybermen done anything like that? Kinda weird.

Still, pretty cool. I liked how the speculation about the "next Doctor" just being a guy pretending to be the Doctor for a laugh was wrong, because that would've been horrid. The huge Cyberman rampaging across London was awesome, in a crazy way. Remember that apparently the Cybermen's programming had been pretty well scrambled; they were clearly more than a bit bonkers, I'm sure the Cyberking seemed like a good idea to them at the time.

So this is another story with the alternate Cybermen? Why can't they use the native Cybermen? How many times are we going to have Cybermen from an alternate universe yet again cross into the prime with nary a hint that there are already Cybermen in this universe with a history of trying to conquer Earth and more advanced technology?

It'd be a bit confusing for viewers who're only familar with the new series, I would imagine.

Plus the original Cybermen have been referred to a couple of times; there was that Cyberhead in the museum in Dalek

[Stark]

The original cybermen also sucked and failed consistently; I'd really only want to see the very early Mondasians again (as a whole 'mostly cyber guys' thing like it was in the 60s) but the Telosians and their retarded war were complete failures at everything and just cut-price Daleks. No dramatic reason to bring them back, and we can just laugh and say they got ruled in the Time War and don't exist anymore (insofar as they ever fucking existed, being down to a few ships for 80% of their episodes due to constant failure and suckage).

I'd be more worried by the lack of originality, as the new series is very obviously falling into the same trap as the old.

[Johonebesus]

And the new Cybermen don't suck? They had millions of units and couldn't conquer the other Earth. One little modification and they self destructed. All they do is cover over their stupidity with "cool" effects like that insipid cyber-stomp and the silly upgrade with buzz saws and flying blood and screams.

How many enemies didn't fail despite a huge initial advantage? I agree that they could use some reimagining, but that doesn't have to include coming from a parallel universe or lame gimmicks. Throughout the first twenty-five years all the recurring enemies were reimagined. It seems to me that there is much more potential with native Cybermen. They can be reimagined again, and the writers don't have to come up with another contrived explanation for how they got in this universe again.

I should also point out that the old show went years between Cyberman or Dalek stories. I'd say the new series is doing much worse than the old in terms of reusing the same old monsters again and again.

[Stark]

Okay, so you hate the new cybermen and want the old ones back simply out of purity? Why would they do this when there's no effective difference besides the retarded 'lol sealed other dimension not so sealed lololol' nonsense (which is really just a sign of the poor writing overall in the show)? The cybermen - like the Daleks - should just fuck off overall, and not do some stupid crap where they bring back the old stupid wanker ones (slaughtered by space freighter crews and whose backup plans are always better than their primary plans) FOR NO REASON other than to confuse new viewers and satisify purist nerds to no dramatic change. I even pointed out that it might be worth bringing the Mondasians back dramatically (ie, not just to satisfy purist nerd idiots) but the Telosians are basically indistinguishable from the new ones, the only differences being how much they suck.

The constant rehashing of the same limited roster of badguys is a real problem, of which stupid crap like 'lol more guys from void lol' is just a symptom. If they could just put down the fucking needle and write good stories instead of using iconic shit as a crutch this issue wouldn't be serious. Of course most nerd idiots lap this shit up anyway, so expecting writing standards to improve may be optimistic.

[Patrick Degan]

I am inclined to agree. The Time War was the perfect mechanism to start Doctor Who off again virtually from scratch, and that opportunity has been pissed away. The last several multiparters have essentially covered old ground which was better done twenty years ago and have gotten increasingly fanwank with each iteration, with the whole "Journey's End" trilogy being about as bad as the most cliched fanzine story written by a high-school age hack.

It's sad when a fanvid version of Doctor Who: Children In Need turns out far more coherent and focussed, as well as imaginative, than the last three multiparters in the series proper.

[Johonebesus]

Nerd purity? It's called logic. If Cybermen must show up, it is much more reasonable that they be the ones that are already here. Even you acknowledge that the convoluted explanations necessary to resurrect them again is "retarded". And yes, I think the new versions are corny. Is my dislike for the new ones somehow less valid than your dislike for the old ones?

I agreed that they should be reimagined, not just resurrected from the eighties. It would be neat to see something of the Cybermen before they got their home world blown up. Maybe we could have a story set on an early Mondas as they are just taking their first steps towards becoming Cybermen. If the Daleks can go from losers defeated by Earthlings and Thals with moderate technology to a force capable of going head to head with the Timelords, why can't the Cybermen of Telos be recast as capable villains?

According to RTD kids were requesting Davros. Did his resurrection and recognition of Sarah Jane send the new viewers into apoplexies of confusion? A bit of decent writing could quickly explain that the Cybermen seen before were cheap knockoffs of the Mondosian originals. If viewers stuck around after the tile girl and the last couple of Dalek stories and Rose, they should be able to handle a "new" version of the Cybermen. Especially if they look different, like maybe having flexible skin instead of armor plates (a light fabric as tough as metal plates seems more advanced).

[Stark]

Since Davros did nothing, made a finale totally awful and then went away, it's a bit different lol.

Anyway, expecting this writing team to manage anything is just wishful thinking, and using Journey's End as an example of how it will work fine is hilarious.

[Bounty]

Wait. The Doctor recognised the Cyberking as something the Cybermen used for planetary invasions...when have the Cybus Cybermen done anything like that? Kinda weird.

Yeah, that struck me as odd too. The only explanation I can think of (well, apart from the obvious "RTD needs a proofreader") is that its another thing they learned from the Daleks in the Void, stealing the plans for the original Dreadnought and building their own version which was close enough for the Doctor to recognise.

Looks like they remembered the Doctor's pockets doubling as hammerspace.

The children subplot didn't make a lick of sense. So you kill a priest and half a funeral procession, build the mind control doodads to control five underlings, have them supply you with child labour, and then you use them to... turn wheels? That's got to be the one of the most circuitous plans in Who history. I get the impression that there were supposed to be much, much more children involved - a couple hundred as a throwback to Dickensian child labour or something, not the ten kids standing around we ended up getting.

On the whole, it's a 2,5/5. It was fun, it had cool eye candy (MechaSteamCyberPunkManZilla = oh yes) and I liked Jackson, but the story was just too threadbare and holey to work. Cheap ending too, they just recycled the trick from the Age of Steel two-parter. And there's really no-one who remembers a giant robot stomping through 1850's London?

[NecronLord]

In fairness, for those wanting to use Mondasian cybermen, this story just would not have worked with them. While their military history consists solely of losing, they are at least too sane to need to use children as slave labour, or not to shoot the faux-Doctor. They'd also not necesserily know who the Doctor was, yet. Though they might possibly have an image of the second doctor somewhere.

What's more, they'd still have their homeworld's resources available to them. No skulking in sewers required. This story would need a complete re-write to work with Mondasians.

Conversely, Mondasians in the C19th could be rather good; if you were to make them look radically different, say strange shapeless things bound up with surgical gauze, like the original (Tenth Planet) cybermen. "The Mummy!"

[Gemini-Preserver]

I wounder how the Dalek's got hold of footage of the Doctor from inside the titanic and from under the Thames barrier? Unless they have been stealing cctv tapes.