Shocking News: Keanu Reeves Stars in Mediocre Sci-Fi Film

[Bilbo]

When I watched this movie a thought occurred to me how in a real world we would handle first contact situation? Let`s assume aliens don`t have any super advanced tech based on principles we don`t understand like in the movie. What I`m proposing is we detect an incoming ship when it fires up it`s anti matter drive to decelerate and we have about a year time before ship slows down and enters inner solar system. It should be obvious that most likely intentions for aliens is to set up a colony in Solar system.

What would world powers do?
Would there be any attempts to hide this information from public?
What would be social and cultural consequences of knowing there are others out there and they are coming right to us. Some people have suggested in scenario like this there would be mass rioting and global breakdown of social order. Would that be the case?

Too many big telescopes are operated by too many people not answerable to the government. You would not keep this under wraps for long at all.

[Sidewinder]

Except in this case, the aliens have probably seen other races fuck up their own environments, and thus, have prior experience with how to help a race change its ways and stop its own death.

Are you so deluded that you don't see the FUCKING OBVIOUS flaws in Klaatu's conduct? As Tanasinn points out...

Well, they certainly demonstrate poor first contact conduct. "Oh hey, these humans are excitable and violent. Rather than using our immense technology to give them an undeniable message that we're coming and asking them nicely not to shoot us, let's mysteriously land our giant glowing sphere in the middle of one of the most important cities of the most militarized country on the planet without providing any information whatsoever! What could possibly go wrong?"

Klaatu's people have been observing Earth for DECADES. They should've KNOWN humans are xenophobic, that Klaatu's surprise visit will make the humans assume he's coming to INVADE Earth and ENSLAVE the human race, and adjusted "first contact" protocols accordingly to avoid provoking a violent response that humans will justify as self-defense.

Hell, I can write a better first contact story than the hacks responsible for the remake.

Klaatu, one year BEFORE his arrival: Greetings, humans! We're an intergalactic organization, comparable to your United Nations, whose goal is to preserve the few planets in the galaxy that are capable of supporting life! We're concerned that you humans are rendering your own homeworld uninhabitable through pollution, and are coming to provide help! Please don't shoot the representative when he arrives.

Klaatu, six months BEFORE his arrival: Greetings again, humans! The representative is getting ready to visit your planet, and will arrive in six months! He'll bring clean energy generators to replace all those nasty polluting motors and powerplants on you've been using! Really, we're coming to help, so please don't shoot the representative when he arrives!

Klaatu, one month BEFORE his arrival: Greetings again! The representative will arrive in one month, and bring the clean energy generators with him, along with the scientific know how for you humans to build those generators yourselves! Again, please don't shoot the representative when he arrives!

Klaatu, the day he arrives: Greetings from outer space! I'm Klaatu, the representative. Please put away those weapons, they might provoke a reaction from my ship's defense systems, which are comparable to your Phalanx CIWS. May I invite a human representative aboard my ship, so we can discuss my constituents' position?

Klaatu, one month after his arrival: Good morning, humans! I hope you like those clean energy generators. By the way, I notice you have problems with overpopulation. We'll gladly welcome any human colonists to one of our member homeworlds, provided the colonists obey those homeworlds' laws. Pay special attention to the "no polluting" rule, that's a killer! Literally!

[Ziggy Stardust]

The basic concepts of the movie were fine, as have been said before, it was the execution that was awful. The writers and the director must be functionally retarded or something. This became evident in the first few minutes of the movie. At the beginning, when they detect Klaatu's spaceship approaching, they think it's an asteroid that is going to destroy Manhattan.

At this point, they think it's an asteroid, they do not know it is actually extraterrestrial life.

So what does the government do? They get a microbiologist, an engineer, an astrophysicist, and a couple of other random scientists from fields. None of these professions are really relevant to the problem at hand (the astrophysicist, sure; but why did they need to kidnap one when they have fucking NASA?). And where do they send these random scientists? To Manhattan. They send the "crack team" of (functionally irrelevant) scientists to ground zero of the impact they are supposed to be trying to help them deal with.

Honestly?

[Admiral Valdemar]

I guess someone didn't like them. A rock hitting at that speed won't leave many survivors, or any New York, for that matter.

[Gil Hamilton]

The basic concepts of the movie were fine, as have been said before, it was the execution that was awful. The writers and the director must be functionally retarded or something. This became evident in the first few minutes of the movie. At the beginning, when they detect Klaatu's spaceship approaching, they think it's an asteroid that is going to destroy Manhattan.

At this point, they think it's an asteroid, they do not know it is actually extraterrestrial life.

So what does the government do? They get a microbiologist, an engineer, an astrophysicist, and a couple of other random scientists from fields. None of these professions are really relevant to the problem at hand (the astrophysicist, sure; but why did they need to kidnap one when they have fucking NASA?). And where do they send these random scientists? To Manhattan. They send the "crack team" of (functionally irrelevant) scientists to ground zero of the impact they are supposed to be trying to help them deal with.

Honestly?

I thought that point was pretty obvious. No one in the government responsible actually believed it was an asteroid. That was a cover story to keep the underlings involved someone less freaked out and make sure that's the story that leaks when the information invariably leaks out. The team they put together was clearly designed as an assessment team for extraterrestrials, as was the fact that they had all that military hardware on hand mere minutes after the orb in Central Park landed. NASA would have known that something traveling through the solar system in a hyperbolic orbit at 10% the speed of light wasn't an asteroid, and the fact they had to recalculate the initial trajectory would have told them the thing was under power. It was a little wonky that they could calculate emphatically that it was coming down in Manhattan though, since you'd think that calculation would come with a hefty margin of error that includes alot of major cities.

No, that part didn't bother me, particularly with all the other Cold War secrecy BS the Defense Department pulls later in the movie.

[Atlan]

Well, they certainly demonstrate poor first contact conduct. "Oh hey, these humans are excitable and violent. Rather than using our immense technology to give them an undeniable message that we're coming and asking them nicely not to shoot us, let's mysteriously land our giant glowing sphere in the middle of one of the most important cities of the most militarized country on the planet without providing any information whatsoever! What could possibly go wrong?"

Actually, sounds to me to be an excellent last test of how mature a species is. Or not is, in our case.

You know, if they hold their fire despite the appearance of threat, and let you talk, they might actually be worth helping.
If they pop a cap in your ass despite you offering no actual violence, then maybe there isn't all that much intelligent life worth saving.

Just my two cents.

[Bilbo]

Well, they certainly demonstrate poor first contact conduct. "Oh hey, these humans are excitable and violent. Rather than using our immense technology to give them an undeniable message that we're coming and asking them nicely not to shoot us, let's mysteriously land our giant glowing sphere in the middle of one of the most important cities of the most militarized country on the planet without providing any information whatsoever! What could possibly go wrong?"

Actually, sounds to me to be an excellent last test of how mature a species is. Or not is, in our case.

You know, if they hold their fire despite the appearance of threat, and let you talk, they might actually be worth helping.
If they pop a cap in your ass despite you offering no actual violence, then maybe there isn't all that much intelligent life worth saving.

Just my two cents.

So letting someone land and possibly set of a weapon of some sort is a good thing? It may show patience but will also show incredible stupidity too. Also what would this have to do with how "green" the people in question are?

[Batman]

So letting someone land and possibly set of a weapon of some sort is a good thing?

When there's no indication whatsoever it actually IS a weapon, YES? Especially when you SHOULD know that if the ones wanting to set off the weapon were they to do so, there'd be jack all you could do about it? That'd be the tech discrepancy I mentioned earlier.

It may show patience but will also show incredible stupidity too.

No it wouldn't. It would show humanity realizing 'They have the technology to eradicate us so fast we wouldn't notice but they still want to talk so maybe we should listen to what they have to say'.

[Atlan]

So letting someone land and possibly set of a weapon of some sort is a good thing? It may show patience but will also show incredible stupidity too.

If the aliens wanted to kill people all they would have had to do was to smash that ship into the earth at it's original velocity. There would have been sweet fuckall we could have done about it. Any civilisation that can move a ship like the aliens can is so far ahead of us that we're utterly screwed if they wanted to pick a fight with us, or we with them. As was proven in the movie.

Also what would this have to do with how "green" the people in question are?

It would have to do with how rational we are. You know, this quality which indicates how much you're actually capable of listening to, and understanding reasonable arguments.
As it turns out, in the movie, we weren't. And we were fucked.

[Tanasinn]

Actually, sounds to me to be an excellent last test of how mature a species is.

So risking the life of an envoy in a seat-of-the-pants "test" on a species' maturity is intelligent how? This line of argument doesn't exactly reinforce the contact conduct of the aliens concerned, particularly when it would have been trivial to test human maturity by sending, say, a robot, or simply picking up the super-advanced alien phone and seeing if humanity's collective leaders were willing to listen up and play ball.

[Sky Captain]

I think in this case both sides showed incompetence in handling first contact situation. Aliens should have known humans might panic and start shooting when their ship suddenly lands in the middle of one of the most important cities. After all they were watching us for 70 years and should known we can be trigger happy.

On the other hand humans should have known civilization capable of decelerating spacecraft from 10 %C to stop in less than a minute is so far ahead of us that bringing heavily armed trigger happy military personal to landing site is unnecessary and in case things really turns out hostile that military personal would be completely irrelevant.

[Sidewinder]

Well, they certainly demonstrate poor first contact conduct. "Oh hey, these humans are excitable and violent. Rather than using our immense technology to give them an undeniable message that we're coming and asking them nicely not to shoot us, let's mysteriously land our giant glowing sphere in the middle of one of the most important cities of the most militarized country on the planet without providing any information whatsoever! What could possibly go wrong?"

Actually, sounds to me to be an excellent last test of how mature a species is. Or not is, in our case.

You know, if they hold their fire despite the appearance of threat, and let you talk, they might actually be worth helping.
If they pop a cap in your ass despite you offering no actual violence, then maybe there isn't all that much intelligent life worth saving.

Just my two cents.

So if I show up in your bedroom, with an assault rifle slung across my body and a semiautomatic pistol holstered at my side, and you do NOT panic and try to drive me out of your house, that's proof you're actually worth my expending any energy to help?

How about all those endangered species that Klaatu wanted to preserve, like Noah? If I bumped into a bear while I'm hiking up and down a mountain, the bear will probably maul me. Does that mean we humans should just sit back and let bears join the dodo in extinction?

[Atlan]

So if I show up in your bedroom, with an assault rifle slung across my body and a semiautomatic pistol holstered at my side, and you do NOT panic and try to drive me out of your house, that's proof you're actually worth my expending any energy to help?

Except, of course, that's what Klaatu doesn't do. He's the guy who shows up in your bedroom, unarmed, smiles at you, wants to shake your hand, and goes "Hi!". Of course being an American, that makes you completely justified in popping a cap in his ass. Because, you know, TERROR!

How about all those endangered species that Klaatu wanted to preserve, like Noah? If I bumped into a bear while I'm hiking up and down a mountain, the bear will probably maul me. Does that mean we humans should just sit back and let bears join the dodo in extinction?

A bear isn't supposed to be intelligent. We are. Well, apart from about 350 million people living in North America, apparently. Because you've got, to paraphrase Denis Leary, Nuclear Fucking Weapons!

[Lonestar]

Except, of course, that's what Klaatu doesn't do. He's the guy who shows up in your bedroom, unarmed, smiles at you, wants to shake your hand, and goes "Hi!". Of course being an American, that makes you completely justified in popping a cap in his ass. Because, you know, TERROR!

Wow, you screwed that one up. Forgetting for the moment that you live in some bizarro world where a stranger, unarmed or not, just showing up in your bedroom isn't grounds for calling the police(or "popping a cap in his ass"), he wasn't unarmed, and he landed in a loud, intimidating ship in the largest city in a highly militarized country without prior notice.

After which shock is expressed when a 18 year old National Guardsman accidently discharges a firearm at the alien walking out. And "Humanity must be wiped out" based upon his interaction with ONE government on the planet. Sidewinder is right, these guys have put fuck-all thought into how to perform a First Contact.

Having said all that, this movie(like 28 Weeks later) hinges on the US Government being as antagonistic and idiotic as possible. The only thing that was missing was the janitor with swipe access to the quarentined lab. If I were the President, and an alien lands and wants to speak to the UN, he is going to be allowed to speak to the UN.

[Gil Hamilton]

Wow, you screwed that one up. Forgetting for the moment that you live in some bizarro world where a stranger, unarmed or not, just showing up in your bedroom isn't grounds for calling the police(or "popping a cap in his ass"), he wasn't unarmed, and he landed in a loud, intimidating ship in the largest city in a highly militarized country without prior notice.

Except that Klaatu was unarmed, for the most part (except for the Alien Electric Hoodoo). Besides, what would be an example of a spaceship showing up and landing that isn't intimidating?

After which shock is expressed when a 18 year old National Guardsman accidently discharges a firearm at the alien walking out. And "Humanity must be wiped out" based upon his interaction with ONE government on the planet. Sidewinder is right, these guys have put fuck-all thought into how to perform a First Contact.

I don't think it was an accidental discharge, I think it was a panicked one. Unlike the original, Klaatu wasn't holding anything, let alone something they mistook for a weapon.

Besides, it wasn't "humanity must be wiped out" after one encounter with the US government. It was "humanity needs to be cleared aside because it is irredeemable" after they observed humanity for most of the 20th century. Be honest, Lonestar, if you were aliens and you witnessed humanities behavior in the 20th century, with all the horrible shit we've done to our fellow man and to the planet, what conclusion would you draw as to our ability to survive as a species? Particularly if you know from experience most species succeed only in destroying themselves.

Having said all that, this movie(like 28 Weeks later) hinges on the US Government being as antagonistic and idiotic as possible. The only thing that was missing was the janitor with swipe access to the quarentined lab. If I were the President, and an alien lands and wants to speak to the UN, he is going to be allowed to speak to the UN.

I certainly agree with you on this. The US Government in the move was pretty damn cartoonishly villain-y.

[Lonestar]

Except that Klaatu was unarmed, for the most part (except for the Alien Electric Hoodoo).

I must have imagined the giant robot that came stomping out then.

(This isn't a criticism of Klaatu showing up armed, just pointing out that it rapidly became clear he wasn't unarmed after the accidental discharge)

Besides, what would be an example of a spaceship showing up and landing that isn't intimidating?

Point, but Klaatu made no effort, none, to mitigate the intimidation(or at least the fear and panic that would come from it) by giving some kind of broadcast ahead of time, landing outside of the city, giving some kind of public statement of it's intentions...(I might add that if he had started broadcasting before he approached the planet it's less likely we would have tried to shoot him down).

I don't think it was an accidental discharge, I think it was a panicked one. Unlike the original, Klaatu wasn't holding anything, let alone something they mistook for a weapon.

Accidental is the same as a panicked one, as no one instructed the Guardsman(or whomever) to open fire.

Besides, it wasn't "humanity must be wiped out" after one encounter with the US government.

No, it was a decision made after being held hostage by ONE government. It seems clear to me that some kind of deal was going to be offered to the UN before everyone in the United States Government woke up and took idiot pills that morning.

It was "humanity needs to be cleared aside because it is irredeemable" after they observed humanity for most of the 20th century. Be honest, Lonestar, if you were aliens and you witnessed humanities behavior in the 20th century, with all the horrible shit we've done to our fellow man and to the planet, what conclusion would you draw as to our ability to survive as a species? Particularly if you know from experience most species succeed only in destroying themselves.

Not without making some kind of diplomatic move first(no one has, for example, said "You know what we just need to wipe out both the Israelis and the Palestinians", the outside world has still endeavored to reach a diplomatic agreement despite the wheel-spinning going on). If I make this deal and, say, the Europeans agree to it and seem to be earnest in their attempt to make the accommodation, then there is no reason to wipe them out along with the Americans. Instead it's "Nope there is nothing to be done toast the Humans."

[Sidewinder]

So if I show up in your bedroom, with an assault rifle slung across my body and a semiautomatic pistol holstered at my side, and you do NOT panic and try to drive me out of your house, that's proof you're actually worth my expending any energy to help?

Except, of course, that's what Klaatu doesn't do. He's the guy who shows up in your bedroom, unarmed, smiles at you, wants to shake your hand, and goes "Hi!". Of course being an American, that makes you completely justified in popping a cap in his ass. Because, you know, TERROR!

As Lonestar noted, Klaatu was NOT unarmed: He had GORT. Bringing GORT to Earth is like me driving a VBIED onto your front lawn and, when you stick your head out the window, saying, "Don't worry about the 7000 pounds of explosives in my truck, as long as you leave it alone, the bomb won't blast you and all of your neighbors to the moon."

And even assuming Klaatu was actually unarmed, HOW THE HELL are we supposed to tell? Lots of weapons are concealable; in some states, a handgun is a "concealed weapon" and one must possess a special license to legally carry a handgun on one's person. If I show up in your bedroom, smile at you, and says, "Hi!" as I extend my hand to receive a handshake, would you be able to tell whether or not my intentions are friendly? Would you know whether or not I have a loaded handgun hidden somewhere out of sight? If I do and I say it's for self-defense, would you take my word and NOT feel nervous at the possibility I might lose my temper and put a bullet in your head?

How about all those endangered species that Klaatu wanted to preserve, like Noah? If I bumped into a bear while I'm hiking up and down a mountain, the bear will probably maul me. Does that mean we humans should just sit back and let bears join the dodo in extinction?

A bear isn't supposed to be intelligent. We are. Well, apart from about 350 million people living in North America, apparently. Because you've got, to paraphrase Denis Leary, Nuclear Fucking Weapons!

Oh, bears don't deserve to die DESPITE their violent reactions to the sudden appearance of a human, but we DO because of our violent reaction to the sudden appearance of an alien? When was the right to self-defense restricted to non-sentient life forms ONLY? By your standards, if I show up with an ax in my hands, ranting that you must die because your very existence ruins the environment, you don't have the right to defend yourself because I'm an intelligent (but insane) life form.

[Gil Hamilton]

I must have imagined the giant robot that came stomping out then.

(This isn't a criticism of Klaatu showing up armed, just pointing out that it rapidly became clear he wasn't unarmed after the accidental discharge)

The Giant Robot came stomping out AFTER Klaatu was shot in order to protect their ambassador. He wasn't armed when he was shot.

Point, but Klaatu made no effort, none, to mitigate the intimidation(or at least the fear and panic that would come from it) by giving some kind of broadcast ahead of time, landing outside of the city, giving some kind of public statement of it's intentions...(I might add that if he had started broadcasting before he approached the planet it's less likely we would have tried to shoot him down).

I would think that that would be the point of them sending an unarmed ambassador to speak directly to the UN assembly. That was supposed to be the whole giving a public statement of intentions thing, before things went haywire what with their ambassador getting shot and then taken prisoner. They arsed themselves to take human forms specifically because they wanted to put a good face on things, because, as Klaatu pointed out, his natural form would be somewhat terrifying.

Accidental is the same as a panicked one, as no one instructed the Guardsman(or whomever) to open fire.

Since when? Just because someone is in a state of panic doesn't mean he accidentally switched off his safety and pulled the trigger. That's not the gun accidentally going off.

No, it was a decision made after being held hostage by ONE government. It seems clear to me that some kind of deal was going to be offered to the UN before everyone in the United States Government woke up and took idiot pills that morning.

The movie rather gives the impression that the whole incident merely convinced Klaatu that talk was cheap and that the US Government was never going to let him go ahead with a solution that didn't involve them kicking off Nano Plague Apocalypse (which he'd be right, after he busted out of the interrogation, it was clear that the government had no interest in taking him alive).

You'll notice that Klaatu didn't seem to take being shot too personally and was pretty damn easily convinced to call the whole thing off (even if he didn't get there in time to prevent New Jersey and Eastern PA from being destroyed).

Not without making some kind of diplomatic move first(no one has, for example, said "You know what we just need to wipe out both the Israelis and the Palestinians", the outside world has still endeavored to reach a diplomatic agreement despite the wheel-spinning going on). If I make this deal and, say, the Europeans agree to it and seem to be earnest in their attempt to make the accommodation, then there is no reason to wipe them out along with the Americans. Instead it's "Nope there is nothing to be done toast the Humans."

I think the aliens really wanted to avoid toasting the Humans. Klaatu didn't take all that much selling in order to call for GORT to be aborted, despite having every reason to be pissed at human beings and some higher up must have approved shutting down all electrical systems on the planet (which we don't know if was part of ensuring GORT was stopped or whether it was Plan C). The point was that they considered it impossible and the time had come to salvage what they could of the planet.

They probably had a point too. Let's say first contact didn't involve Klaatu being shot and imprisoned by the US government. Let's say got an emergency session of the UN going and before the entire world said:

"Greetings, people of Earth. You've been doing an absolutely terrible job running the planet and guess what? Planets capable of supporting complex life like Earth are exceedingly rare. To that end, the Earth is now under new management while we clean up your shit. By the way, the other option is we kill you all with the Giant Robot we've got and salvage the planet, because we honestly don't expect you to grow up and be mature about this."

Do you think people are going to go along with that? The diplomatic option in this scenario is informing the human race that we suck and they have a Giant Killer Robot sitting on their ship if we don't get with the program. The galactic civilizations had no interest in playing human politics, Lonestar. Chances are they probably don't even understand human politics. Saying that they should have at least humored us first seems kind of silly, even if you put aside the fact that that is exactly what their original plan was with sending Klaatu to the UN.

[Lonestar]

The Giant Robot came stomping out AFTER Klaatu was shot in order to protect their ambassador. He wasn't armed when he was shot.

In the United States it's easy to convince a jury that "it was dark and I didn't know if intruder was armed or not." The same legal mechanism applies here.

I would think that that would be the point of them sending an unarmed ambassador to speak directly to the UN assembly. That was supposed to be the whole giving a public statement of intentions thing, before things went haywire what with their ambassador getting shot and then taken prisoner. They arsed themselves to take human forms specifically because they wanted to put a good face on things, because, as Klaatu pointed out, his natural form would be somewhat terrifying.

So? What part of "Oh hey let's go tearing into the planet and land unannounced in a major city" is calculated to mitigate fear and panic that arises from an alien visit? No part of it was. And we didn't see their human form until after Klaatu had been taken into custody.

Since when? Just because someone is in a state of panic doesn't mean he accidentally switched off his safety and pulled the trigger. That's not the gun accidentally going off.

Accidental Discharge can mean someone accidentally discharged the gun not it fired by itself, you goon.

The movie rather gives the impression that the whole incident merely convinced Klaatu that talk was cheap and that the US Government was never going to let him go ahead with a solution that didn't involve them kicking off Nano Plague Apocalypse (which he'd be right, after he busted out of the interrogation, it was clear that the government had no interest in taking him alive).

Bingo. The US GOVERNMENT. Like I said, if you're, say, France and you want to earnestly reach an accommodation, tough shit. The government of a country that represents 5% of the world's population has determined for you that humanity must be destroyed. He made these decisions based upon interaction with ONE government.

You'll notice that Klaatu didn't seem to take being shot too personally and was pretty damn easily convinced to call the whole thing off (even if he didn't get there in time to prevent New Jersey and Eastern PA from being destroyed).

The casualness of both decisions make me think that the aliens, whomever they may be, didn't really think the whole thing through to begin with.

I think the aliens really wanted to avoid toasting the Humans. Klaatu didn't take all that much selling in order to call for GORT to be aborted, despite having every reason to be pissed at human beings and some higher up must have approved shutting down all electrical systems on the planet (which we don't know if was part of ensuring GORT was stopped or whether it was Plan C). The point was that they considered it impossible and the time had come to salvage what they could of the planet.

I don't. I think the aliens were viewings as, at best, mon'keigh that should be wiped out so another more worthy race could colonize it.

They probably had a point too. Let's say first contact didn't involve Klaatu being shot and imprisoned by the US government. Let's say got an emergency session of the UN going and before the entire world said:

"Greetings, people of Earth. You've been doing an absolutely terrible job running the planet and guess what? Planets capable of supporting complex life like Earth are exceedingly rare. To that end, the Earth is now under new management while we clean up your shit. By the way, the other option is we kill you all with the Giant Robot we've got and salvage the planet, because we honestly don't expect you to grow up and be mature about this."

Except Klaatu's interaction with Cleese indicated it wouldn't be worded as a hostile takeover. At worst it's a 'You need to do this this and this while we are here to advise you on how to do this this and this."

Do you think people are going to go along with that?

I think quite a few governments would be willing to reach an accommodation, yes.

The diplomatic option in this scenario is informing the human race that we suck and they have a Giant Killer Robot sitting on their ship if we don't get with the program. The galactic civilizations had no interest in playing human politics, Lonestar. Chances are they probably don't even understand human politics.

Yeah, with agents on the planet for at least 70 years? I'm sure they have at least a passing understanding of human politics.

Saying that they should have at least humored us first seems kind of silly, even if you put aside the fact that that is exactly what their original plan was with sending Klaatu to the UN.

Yes, it was. And they should have stuck with the plan. I might add that I don't recall Klaatu saying something along the lines of "Here's the Deal: We can do this the Diplomatic way, or the wipe-out-humanity way. If you don't take me to the UN, it's going to be the wipe-out-humanity way. Or at the very least your government if other governments prove that they are earnestly willing to reach an accomadation." to the US Government. Instead it was vague threats and statements. And after he escaped government custody he had given up on all prospect of speaking to any government on the planet. Time to toast humanity.

[Gil Hamilton]

In the United States it's easy to convince a jury that "it was dark and I didn't know if intruder was armed or not." The same legal mechanism applies here.

Underneath the enormously brightly lit glowing sphere?

So? What part of "Oh hey let's go tearing into the planet and land unannounced in a major city" is calculated to mitigate fear and panic that arises from an alien visit? No part of it was. And we didn't see their human form until after Klaatu had been taken into custody.

Frankly, Lonestar, they'd probably have caused the same amount of panic if they gave a shout out first. Aliens are landing in Central Park here. Them going "Hey, we are coming down! It's cool, we just want to talk!" is probably going to have the same response.

Accidental Discharge can mean someone accidentally discharged the gun not it fired by itself, you goon.

But the soldier DIDN'T accidentally shoot. He must have during the encounter took his gun off safety, aimed at Klaatu, and squeezed the trigger. Even if he was up to his eyeballs in fear over the fact that aliens have landed in the park, no part of that isn't a deliberate action.

Bingo. The US GOVERNMENT. Like I said, if you're, say, France and you want to earnestly reach an accommodation, tough shit. The government of a country that represents 5% of the world's population has determined for you that humanity must be destroyed. He made these decisions based upon interaction with ONE government.

No, not really. The encounter with the US government put him in a foul mood on the whole humanity thing, which is frankly understandable. But his mission there was to deliver a message and give final go-ahead on turning on GORT. It's really not his fault the US Government dicked him over.

The casualness of both decisions make me think that the aliens, whomever they may be, didn't really think the whole thing through to begin with.

Only 70 years worth of it. There was clear logic to their position, but given that they weren't the monster that people seem to want to paint them as, they were looking for a way to NOT kill humanity.

I don't. I think the aliens were viewings as, at best, mon'keigh that should be wiped out so another more worthy race could colonize it.

Except that's not how it was presented in the movie. The aliens were caught in a bind that they didn't want to kill us, but found the planet too valuable to let humans destroy it along with themselves. Given they (rightly) through humans weren't going to change, they decided to save one by sacrificing the other.

Except Klaatu's interaction with Cleese indicated it wouldn't be worded as a hostile takeover. At worst it's a 'You need to do this this and this while we are here to advise you on how to do this this and this."

Klaatu's folks don't seem to have enough of a command of the English language to be good liars or politicians, just a functional one. It was pretty clear that even if humanity did everything right, the Earth was still under new management (note the contempt, to the extent Keanu Reeves can emote, to the assertion that it was our planet).

I think quite a few governments would be willing to reach an accommodation, yes.

And honestly mean it, not just to keep the aliens from pressing the GORT button while they figure out how to undermine the aliens? I think that list is pretty slim. I don't think any human government would voluntarily surrender itself and their way of life to the aliens if the aliens asked them too first. They'd want to negotiate to keep themselves in power and keep the human society from changing as much as possible. From the aliens perspective, humanity before Nano Plague Apocalypse would simply hang itself with any length of rope they gave to us, and they'd probably be entirely correct. The point was that it actually took a demonstration of power and then one of mercy to convince humanity that it was time to cut the crap.

Yeah, with agents on the planet for at least 70 years? I'm sure they have at least a passing understanding of human politics.

Probably enough of one to have no desire to get involved in it. If you were an alien, would YOU want to enter human politics? They are probably also aware of all the backstabbing and undermining that comes with human politics. Why would they bother?

Yes, it was. And they should have stuck with the plan. I might add that I don't recall Klaatu saying something along the lines of "Here's the Deal: We can do this the Diplomatic way, or the wipe-out-humanity way. If you don't take me to the UN, it's going to be the wipe-out-humanity way. Or at the very least your government if other governments prove that they are earnestly willing to reach an accomadation." to the US Government. Instead it was vague threats and statements. And after he escaped government custody he had given up on all prospect of speaking to any government on the planet. Time to toast humanity.

He was constantly on the run from the US government after he escaped government custody. He'd have never MADE it to any other governments, even after he managed to get Jennifer Connelly's character to drive him around. After the original plan to humor us went south as it did, what the hell kind of second chance did anyone earn? Why would the galactic aliens bother to keep trying to talk? They didn't have to try and talk to us at all, and when they did their envoy was shot and imprisoned. From their perspective, that's like sending a termite ambassador to a colony destroying a house to ask them to stop before they turned on the bug spray. The fact that they bothered at all is amazing.

[Sidewinder]

The casualness of both decisions make me think that the aliens, whomever they may be, didn't really think the whole thing through to begin with.

Only 70 years worth of it. There was clear logic to their position, but given that they weren't the monster that people seem to want to paint them as, they were looking for a way to NOT kill humanity.

Except Klaatu's interaction with Cleese indicated it wouldn't be worded as a hostile takeover. At worst it's a 'You need to do this this and this while we are here to advise you on how to do this this and this."

Klaatu's folks don't seem to have enough of a command of the English language to be good liars or politicians, just a functional one. It was pretty clear that even if humanity did everything right, the Earth was still under new management (note the contempt, to the extent Keanu Reeves can emote, to the assertion that it was our planet).

Do you realize the contradictions in your own statements? Klaatu's people have been watching Earth for DECADES. He should've KNOWN that Americans are trigger-happy gun nuts, that their trigger fingers would be especially itchy in the wake of 9/11, and landed someplace where the people are NOT trigger-happy gun nuts, like... I dunno... Brussels, capital of the European Union? Tokyo, Japan? If he convinces THOSE governments to adopt tree-hugging eco-friendly practices, the US would probably follow, especially if he kindly provides clean energy technology to replace all the polluting ones we use because we don't have any substitutes readily available, and the means to mass produce this clean energy technology on THIS planet.

Stop making excuses for Klaatu's (and the director and scriptwriter's) stupidity. He should've KNOWN BETTER, he had DECADES with which to study Earth and got to know better, he EPIC FAILED.

[Lonestar]

Underneath the enormously brightly lit glowing sphere?

Fine "It was dark except for the massive light he shined in my eyes rendering my unable to get a good look at him."

Frankly, Lonestar, they'd probably have caused the same amount of panic if they gave a shout out first. Aliens are landing in Central Park here. Them going "Hey, we are coming down! It's cool, we just want to talk!" is probably going to have the same response.

Somehow, I doubt it. If nothing else it would cause other governments to prepare for it and prevent it being a US-only show.

But the soldier DIDN'T accidentally shoot. He must have during the encounter took his gun off safety, aimed at Klaatu, and squeezed the trigger. Even if he was up to his eyeballs in fear over the fact that aliens have landed in the park, no part of that isn't a deliberate action.

He did accidentally shoot. That's exactly what "shooting when not intending to" means.

No, not really. The encounter with the US government put him in a foul mood on the whole humanity thing, which is frankly understandable. But his mission there was to deliver a message and give final go-ahead on turning on GORT. It's really not his fault the US Government dicked him over.

But it is his fault for, knowing full well that there were other governments on the planet, deciding to wipe out humanity on the basis of his interaction with one government.

Only 70 years worth of it. There was clear logic to their position, but given that they weren't the monster that people seem to want to paint them as, they were looking for a way to NOT kill humanity.

You've said that they had "no understanding of human politics" and now you're saying "They thought it through because they've been watching us for 70 years." If they haven't bothered to make an attempt to gain a passing understanding of human politics in 70 years, then they probably were not planning on negotiating in good faith.

Or they were incompetent and didn't think it all the way through.

Except that's not how it was presented in the movie. The aliens were caught in a bind that they didn't want to kill us, but found the planet too valuable to let humans destroy it along with themselves. Given they (rightly) through humans weren't going to change, they decided to save one by sacrificing the other.

There is nothing in the movie that indicated the aliens came to planet having already decided that killing is is the way to go. As soon as things didn't go According to Plan(TM) Klaatu made the decision to wipe out humanity based upon the actions of one government that represented 5% of the world's population(maybe less than that if it was a particularly close Presidential election).

Klaatu's folks don't seem to have enough of a command of the English language to be good liars or politicians, just a functional one. It was pretty clear that even if humanity did everything right, the Earth was still under new management (note the contempt, to the extent Keanu Reeves can emote, to the assertion that it was our planet).

For a group of people observing humanity for at least 70 years they sure do fuck up simple stuff then, huh?

And honestly mean it, not just to keep the aliens from pressing the GORT button while they figure out how to undermine the aliens? I think that list is pretty slim.

I don't. If the accommodation is reasonable why wouldn't the various governments agree to it in good faith? If the accomadation is "we're going to destroy everything electronic on the planet", then yes, you may have a point.

I don't think any human government would voluntarily surrender itself and their way of life to the aliens if the aliens asked them too first. They'd want to negotiate to keep themselves in power and keep the human society from changing as much as possible. From the aliens perspective, humanity before Nano Plague Apocalypse would simply hang itself with any length of rope they gave to us, and they'd probably be entirely correct. The point was that it actually took a demonstration of power and then one of mercy to convince humanity that it was time to cut the crap.

Forgetting for the moment that that I don't think the act of mercy was much of one(wiping out electronics globally leaves a marginally better situation), where did the Aliens say that the Humans were going to "Hang themselves with the rope they were given"?

Probably enough of one to have no desire to get involved in it. If you were an alien, would YOU want to enter human politics? They are probably also aware of all the backstabbing and undermining that comes with human politics. Why would they bother?

"Entering" Human Politics and, oh, observing them for 70 years and deducing patterns are two different things. I would want to try to understand human politics if for no other reason than "Okay, this is the lever we can use to get them to agree without the end result being humanity wiped out."

He was constantly on the run from the US government after he escaped government custody. He'd have never MADE it to any other governments, even after he managed to get Jennifer Connelly's character to drive him around. After the original plan to humor us went south as it did, what the hell kind of second chance did anyone earn? Why would the galactic aliens bother to keep trying to talk? They didn't have to try and talk to us at all, and when they did their envoy was shot and imprisoned. From their perspective, that's like sending a termite ambassador to a colony destroying a house to ask them to stop before they turned on the bug spray. The fact that they bothered at all is amazing.

Yes...constantly on the run, and if Jennifer Connelly's stepson hadn't been a little turd and called the police, there's every chance that John Cleese would have directed him towards more People of Import(tm). Hell, for that matter they could have doubled back and drove their ass straight to the Russian Embassy.

And the Aliens did have some concept of humans being sentient species, it's just that they are displaying the tendencies of, well, Eldar after finding Mon'keigh colonizing a Maiden World. "It isn't yours..."(even though we have made no attempt to warn you off, now we're going to launch an attack)

[Tanasinn]

I'm not sure the aliens were all that benevolent. They didn't bring any apparent method to solve our problems, save a genocide-o-matic, and were quick to condemn an entire sapient species to brutal extinction on the actions of a few government officials and their own incompetence. Klaatu consults one field agent in making his decision to commit mass murder, and completely ignores the fact that, despite all the whinging said agent does, he's gone fucking native. The only confirmation we end up getting that the aliens are benevolent is that the aforementioned dipshit alien diplomat decides to reverse species-wide genocide based on another ridiculously small sample.

Frankly, I think the SecDef had a good point when she commented on what colonizing groups do to primitive natives.

[Junghalli]

And honestly mean it, not just to keep the aliens from pressing the GORT button while they figure out how to undermine the aliens? I think that list is pretty slim. I don't think any human government would voluntarily surrender itself and their way of life to the aliens if the aliens asked them too first. They'd want to negotiate to keep themselves in power and keep the human society from changing as much as possible.

If the alternative is destruction they'll cooperate. "Liberty or death!" is a nice soundbite, but most people don't actually act that way: faced with a choice between dying on their feet and living on their knees they'll live on their knees. Sure, there'd be massive resentment and any changes the aliens want would probably be implemented at a slave's pace (just barely fast enough to keep the master's whip away), but they'd be implemented. With total destruction as the alternative only suicidal idiots would refuse.

If humans don't believe the aliens can or will kill them they can just demonstrate the Gort Swarm on some uninhabited site, like Pompeii. For that matter, they came here in a planet killer. If they wanted to fuck humanity all they'd have to do is send their ship in a giant loop and slam it into Earth at .1 c.

For that matter, assuming the aliens are willing to give us tech aid and have the kind of technology an interstellar civ should have I don't see why there'd be massive resistance to the changes. Global warming? Here are clean deuterium fusion reactors to keep the lights on instead. Resource depletion and deforestation? Here are nanotech recyclers and synthesizers that will vastly reduce the land and resources necessary to feed the population. It's not like we actively want to pollute: give us a relatively easy means to make our civilization sustainable and minimally environmentally destructive without a drop in the standard of living (which an advanced interstellar civilization should be able to do), and we'd generally embrace it. The biggest problem would probably be convincing everyone to reproduce at replacement rate, but push the human governments hard enough and they will implement two-child policies.

[Oskuro]

The biggest problem would probably be convincing everyone to reproduce at replacement rate, but push the human governments hard enough and they will implement two-child policies.

Actually, if the alien help manages to raise third world countries from the dark pit they're at, the increase in general education would drastically reduce birthrates. Even with fundie iditos who produce children by the cartload, first wolrd countries have a manageable birthrate compared to the third world.