195 Dead in Israel Attack on Gaza

[Edi]

Reuters article

Israel attacks Gaza, 195 reported killed

By Nidal al-Mughrabi

GAZA (Reuters) - Israeli warplanes and helicopters pounded the Hamas-ruled Gaza Strip on Saturday, killing at least 195 people in one of the bloodiest days in the Palestinians' conflict with Israel.

Militants in the Gaza Strip, who have launched dozens of rocket attacks against Israel since a truce expired just over a week ago, fired more salvoes that killed one Israeli man and wounded several others.

Both sides said they were ready to stage wider assaults.

Black smoke billowed over Gaza City, where the dead and wounded lay scattered on the ground after the Israeli air strikes destroyed more than 30 security compounds, including two where Hamas was hosting graduation ceremonies for new recruits.

At the main police headquarters, some rescue workers beat their heads and shouted "God is greatest." One badly wounded man lying nearby quietly recited verses from the Koran. Hamas called the assault a "massacre."

Israel said it had targeted "terrorist infrastructure" following days of rocket attacks from Gaza on southern Israel that caused some damage but few injuries.

"There is a time for calm and a time for fighting, and now the time has come to fight," Defense Minister Ehud Barak said.

The rocket attacks had increased pressure on Israeli political leaders to strike Hamas ahead of a February 10 election.

Barak said that the military campaign would take time and would be expanded "as necessary." Hamas leaders could be targeted, an army spokeswoman said. Hamas reported a new Israeli air strike after dark in southern Gaza.

The mayor of Ashkelon, the Mediterranean coastal city in range of Hamas's Grad rockets, said Israeli military planners had told him the operation would last for "more than a week."

Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni, a leading candidate to become Israel's next prime minister, called for international support against "an extremist Islamist organization ... that is being supported by Iran," Israel's arch-foe.

"Only last week Israel was attacked from the Gaza Strip and in a day about 80 missiles and mortars were fired against Israeli civilians," she said. "Enough is enough."

U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon called for an "immediate halt to all violence."

The administration of U.S. President George Bush, in its final weeks in office, appeared to put the onus on Hamas to prevent a further escalation.

"Hamas' continued rocket attacks into Israel must cease if the violence is to stop," White House spokesman Gordon Johndroe said in a statement that urged Israel to avoid civilian casualties but stopped short of calling for an end to the Israeli air strikes.

European Union Foreign Policy Chief Javier Solana, in contrast, called for an immediate ceasefire and urged "everybody to exert maximum restraint," his spokesman said.

Hamas threatened to unleash "hell" to avenge the dead, including possible suicide bombings inside Israel.

As darkness fell, Palestinian health service officials put the death toll at 195.

Hamas estimated that at least 100 members of its security forces were killed, including police chief Tawfiq Jabber and the head of Hamas's security and protection unit, along with at least 15 women and some children.

Morgues across the Gaza Strip ran out of space for bodies.

The Islamist group, which won a 2006 parliamentary election but was shunned by Western powers over its refusal to renounce violence and recognize Israel, said all of its security compounds in the Gaza Strip were destroyed.

Aid groups said they feared the Israeli operation could fuel a humanitarian crisis in the impoverished coastal enclave, home to 1.5 million Palestinians, half of them dependent on food aid.

Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas said the Israeli air campaign was "criminal" and urged the international community to intervene.

Palestinians staged protest rallies in Arab East Jerusalem, and in the West Bank cities of Ramallah and Hebron, leading to scuffles with the Israeli army.

Egypt said it would keep trying to restore the truce between Israel and Gaza. Arab foreign ministers were set to hold an emergency meeting in Cairo on Sunday or Monday to take a common position on the raids.

Israeli military analyst Ron Ben-Yishai said the strike was "shock treatment ... aimed at securing a long-term ceasefire between Hamas and Israel on terms that are favorable to Israel."

Israeli warplanes also destroyed Gaza's presidential compound, which Hamas seized in June 2007 from Abbas's secular Fatah forces after a brief civil war.

At the main Gaza City graduation ceremony, uniformed bodies lay in a pile and the wounded writhed in pain. Rescuers carried those showing signs of life to cars and ambulances, while others tried to revive the unconscious.

Witnesses also reported heavy Israeli bombing along Gaza's border with Egypt. Palestinians use hundreds of tunnels under the border to bring in everything from goods to weapons.

The campaign followed a decision by Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert's security cabinet to widen reprisals for cross-border Palestinian rocket attacks following the collapse of a six-month-old, Egyptian-brokered ceasefire a week ago.

A five-day Israeli offensive in March killed more than 120 people, but Saturday's death toll would be the highest for Palestinians since their 1980s uprising.

Olmert, who will leave office after the February election, has repeatedly said Israel does not want to retake control of the Gaza Strip. Israel pulled its ground forces and settlers out of the coastal territory in 2005.

After a 2006 war in Lebanon that many Israelis viewed as a failure, military action in Gaza has become a political hot potato that could affect the outcome of the election.

(Additional reporting by Dan Williams, Allyn Fisher-Ilan, Douglas Hamilton and Jeffrey Heller in Jerusalem, Peter Millership in London, Tabassum Zakaria in Washington; Writing by Adam Entous; Editing by Philippa Fletcher)

Israeli military analyst Ron Ben-Yishai said the strike was "shock treatment ... aimed at securing a long-term ceasefire between Hamas and Israel on terms that are favorable to Israel."

Yes, because killing nearly 200 people in one go is certainly going to make them a lot more amenable to talk.

We'll see just how badly the lid comes off this boiling pot in the next few weeks, I suppose, but this is not going to go anywhere good.

[The Grim Squeaker]

Total is up to 203 according to Israeli news agencies with some civil disturbances in Eastern Jerusalem.

Militants in the Gaza Strip, who have launched dozens of rocket attacks against Israel since a truce expired just over a week ago, fired more salvoes that killed one Israeli man and wounded several others.

Slightly lacking.. There were attacks on Israel (rockets, mortars etc') even before the truce expired.

[Shroom Man 777]

So, how do they sort the terrorists from the non-terrorists with their explosions?

I can hardly imagine the non-existent outcry from this incident, and the shock that will come from when a couple of Israelis are blown to pieces in a restaurant or bus station somewhere.

Hamas must cease firing rockets that cause some damage but few injuries, to stop the violence and the Israeli airstrikes that kill hundreds. The onus is on them!

Way to go. Talk about disproportionate response, prompting the other guy to go nuts and get the justification he needed to return the favor.

[CJvR]

Yes, because killing nearly 200 people in one go is certainly going to make them a lot more amenable to talk.

As if Hamas is intrested in talk. There is rather amusing parallells between them and the Jewish fundamentalists in the bible. Actual conditions and forces available are irrelevant when Jhave/Allah is on your side...

[Edi]

DEATH, the prior rocket attacks were mentioned later in the article. The Israeli response was not completely unprovoked, but it was disproportionate. So it will likely be counterproductive.

Let's keep the moratorium in mind, this is a hazardous thread in that regard.

[Minischoles]

It is a disproportionate response, but really what were Hamas hoping was going to happen?
Israel had come to the table for talks, albeit not massively successful but at least some progress was being made, and was likely to be made if they could hold off firing into Israel. And instead of that they decide to start firing again, even before the ceasefire ends and then wonder why Israel responds? And yet somehow Hamas will come out as the victim here, despite provoking Israel into a response yet again.

[MKSheppard]

195 dead? What did Israel do? Cluster bomb one of those Hamas mass rallies?

[The Grim Squeaker]

DEATH, the prior rocket attacks were mentioned later in the article.

My apologies, missed that. (Although I still wanted to point it out).

The Israeli response was not completely unprovoked, but it was disproportionate. So it will likely be counterproductive.

Neutrally speaking, what would you say would have been the proportionate response to protect Israeli citizens and settlements (Which I want to point out, are located many tens of kilometers away from the area in question)? (Assuming this does not violate the moratium. I'm asking what a proportional response would be in your opinion for a state protecting its citizens and territory while attempting to deter?).

Let's keep the moratorium in mind, this is a hazardous thread in that regard.

I can't comment on most things involving it anyway.

And instead of that they decide to start firing again, even before the ceasefire ends and then wonder why Israel responds?

As I (and the article pointed out) they never stopped the attacks.

[MKSheppard]

Partial answer to my own question, at least 60 aircraft, both jets and helos, struck a shitload of targets all over Gaza-stan, dropping at least 200,000 pounds of ordnance on a minimum of 100 targets. So that's like a ton of bombs on each target...

EDIT: First wave was 60 aircraft, the second wave was 20; which concentrated on rocket launchers, and no doubt hit those in residental neighborhoods.

[Edi]

Neutrally speaking, what would you say would have been the proportionate response to protect Israeli citizens and settlements?

Destroy the Hamas HQ buildings during a time when they are mostly unoccupied / not in use and don't use more ordnance than required for the job. From the numbers Shep gave, they went way over that. That's one example. There are other ways, such as killing the Hamas leaders or high profile members with targeted strikes like the ones that were used on Abdul Aziz al-Rantisi and Ahmed Yassin.

All you really have to do is take a look at the numbers of dead to see what happened, especially since this was the greatest number of dead from a single incident since the 1980s.

[CJvR]

195 dead? What did Israel do? Cluster bomb one of those Hamas mass rallies?

Now that would have been something! However I doubt the IDF would...

[CJvR]

Destroy the Hamas HQ buildings during a time when they are mostly unoccupied / not in use and don't use more ordnance than required for the job.

I have never understood what the point of killing a bunch of janitors when you can blow up scores of murderous fanatics by bombing at regular hours.

[The Grim Squeaker]

Neutrally speaking, what would you say would have been the proportionate response to protect Israeli citizens and settlements?

Destroy the Hamas HQ buildings during a time when they are mostly unoccupied / not in use and don't use more ordnance than required for the job. From the numbers Shep gave, they went way over that.

30 security compounds, including two where Hamas was hosting graduation ceremonies for new recruits.

Why?

That's one example. There are other ways, such as killing the Hamas leaders or high profile members with targeted strikes like the ones that were used on Abdul Aziz al-Rantisi and Ahmed Yassin.

(No comment on your exact terminology.), beyond the fact that there was a large outcry when it was more possible (finding terrorist leaders). The leadership went underground, and even when they are "visible" they're surrounded by civilians (admiring crowds) and in urban areas. In addition, the current goal is to stop the constant (and literally nonstop, since as is known it happened during the truce while the Hammas and other terrorists rearmed and resupplied). The leadership is hidden and the need to protect the civilians is immediate and very urgent.

[bobalot]

It's funny, when the Russians beat up the Georgian army, the West (and if I remember correctly, some people in here as well) were pontificating about the response being "disproportional", the silence from the West when it comes it Israel is fucking deafening.

I was watching a documentary recently, it said that while Hamas had scaled back its attacks, smaller militant groups outside the control of Hamas were the main people behind the rocket attacks (or this could just be BS from Hamas). Destroying the ability of Hamas to enforce its will in the Gaza Strip maybe a bit counter productive. I do remember a while back when Arafat was still around, Israel destroyed a whole heap of police stations, which only helped the Islamists to get stronger.

[CJvR]

The casualties are up to 210 in Gaza and 1 in Israel.

[MKSheppard]

I was watching a documentary recently, it said that while Hamas had scaled back its attacks, smaller militant groups outside the control of Hamas were the main people behind the rocket attacks (or this could just be BS from Hamas).

Ah, the good old "Triangular Offensive".

Group A signs a "cease fire" with Israel, but so-called Group B (really, they're Group A, but wearing red kaffiyehs instead of the normal white) continues to attack Israel. When Israel destroys Group B, Group A decries the "violation of the ceasefire" by Israel in destroying Group B, and restarts the war.

It's also called "rope-a-dope".

[Broomstick]

It is a disproportionate response, but really what were Hamas hoping was going to happen?

Perhaps what happened is exactly what they planned for.

Israel had come to the table for talks, albeit not massively successful but at least some progress was being made, and was likely to be made if they could hold off firing into Israel. And instead of that they decide to start firing again, even before the ceasefire ends and then wonder why Israel responds?

It's not like either side came to the talking table willingly - you could hear both sides muttering "Owie-owie-owie" from the arm-twisting inflicted by other nations to bring them face to face.

It is difficult for truly peace-loving people to understand but some people actually do want war. The motivations may vary, but the desire is the same - armed conflict to either dominate or eliminate a perceived enemy.

It is entirely possible that these rocket attacks were intended to provoke a violent response. Perhaps in the hopes of triggering a larger conflict.

And yet somehow Hamas will come out as the victim here, despite provoking Israel into a response yet again.

That's because, first of all, in this instance Hamas's attacks did more property damage than killing, and second, because they are trying to cast this as bully Israel beating up little skinny victim Palestine. Add in the subset of people in the region who genuinely believe those in the house of Islam can never be in the wrong and you have the typical middle east powder keg. It might be suggested that Israel retaliate by destroying buildings rather than people, but if I recall they did try that at one point and still came out looking like the bad guys. At this point (without dredging up the history which I think would violate the IvP moratorium) you have a contingent in the world that believes one or the other of these groups is entirely right and the other entirely wrong, and a subset of both sides won't be happy until the other is eliminated. I don't have an answer for a conflict of that nature, as it doesn't seem very negotiable. Seriously, how do you answer "WE WANT TO KILL YOU ALL!"? With "Oh - would settle for exterminating just half of us?" No, don't think that will work at all.

[Bounty]

So, Israel is taking a 'tough stand' again by tossing around a boatload of bombs? I'm sure it's got nothing to do with the elections next February.

[CJvR]

Well it is up to 225 dead and still rising apparently...

[Guardsman Bass]

What's their follow-up after the bombing campaign? Unless they wipe out the leadership structure of Hamas (or their stockpile of rockets), then they're simply back to Square One sans truce.

[hongi]

I could have predicted this a mile away. Terrorists throw rockets into city and Israel reacts with overwhelming force. Like clockwork, they do the same thing over and over again.

I don't think the concept of proportionate force is part of Israeli doctrine, nor do I think they're thinking reasonably about this. "fuck the consequences, I'm going to pound youse!"

[KlavoHunter]

So, how do they sort the terrorists from the non-terrorists with their explosions?

The same way the terrorists sort military personnel from civilians - by letting God do it.

It's funny, when the Russians beat up the Georgian army, the West (and if I remember correctly, some people in here as well) were pontificating about the response being "disproportional", the silence from the West when it comes it Israel is fucking deafening.

Don't look at me; Georgia fucked up on its own and pretty much invited the Russians to come kick their ass. I'd rather that it hadn't happened, but I can't possibly condemn the Russians for seizing such a golden opportunity to assert their dominance.

I could have predicted this a mile away. Terrorists throw rockets into city and Israel reacts with overwhelming force. Like clockwork, they do the same thing over and over again.

I don't think the concept of proportionate force is part of Israeli doctrine, nor do I think they're thinking reasonably about this. "fuck the consequences, I'm going to pound youse!"

Killing 225 in exchange for the death of 1 is the response of one who deals from a position of strength, and lets his enemies know it.

The very fact that the Palestinian people keep on supporting these terrorist fucks who keep provoking the Israelis into doing this indicates a severe mental malfunction on the part of the Palestinians.

The violence will stop when the Palestinians elect a government that condemns terrorism, and either uproots it themselves, or else is amenable to accepting outside assistance (Be it Israeli or otherwise) in dealing with those who would rather not have peace.

[Winston Blake]

195 dead? What did Israel do? Cluster bomb one of those Hamas mass rallies?

The Islamist group, which won a 2006 parliamentary election but was shunned by Western powers over its refusal to renounce violence and recognize Israel, said all of its security compounds in the Gaza Strip were destroyed.

All Hamas Gaza security compounds, destroyed in one day. It makes me wonder how Hamas is going to 'unleash hell' when they admit that they just had the rug pulled out from under their feet.

On the other hand, they may be hamming it up to gain sympathy.

[Uraniun235]

Last I heard Hamas was still the elected government of the Palestinians. Is that not the case any more?

[fgalkin]

Last I heard Hamas was still the elected government of the Palestinians. Is that not the case any more?

Which is technically in a state of war with the State of Israel. One attacks the enemy government and military, does one not?

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin