World of Warcraft: Wrath of the Lich King

[Gil Hamilton]

Yeah. Even if someone does care, the Crossroads is pretty far out of the way to travel to do anything about it. Back in vanilla WoW, it was less of a problem because in alot of places some level 60s might just happened to be passing through. However, now no one is going to shlep their ass out to the Barrens except if Strand of the Ancients bugs and you end up getting dumped there on a rez turn a team switch. Its a waste of time, because the griefer will just move on and if he's inconvenienced some people to come chase him, well, nothing would make him happier. Level 80s have dailies to grind, mats to farm, and heroics to run, they can't come out to chase a level 62 DK gnome who's decided to troll Tarren Mill.

Of course, there are CITY raids, but that typically has another purpose. It's become in vogue, at least on my server, to put together raids to hit major cities to try and get the Kill All the Leaders achievement, typically by sneaking in late at night while no one is on. Unless you are cool, then you time your attack on alliance cities to happen about 5 minutes after Wintergrasp starts and blitz through them while all the other sides heavies are occupied. That's fun. We actually managed to snake Tyrande and Valen that way.

[Civil War Man]

Ah yes, griefing. When I was starting out with my Draenei Paladin months back, there were 3 undead (2 rogues and a priest, I believe) who were probably either level 70 or close to it (couldn't tell since I was so low level) that were killing all the NPCs on the island. Riding up and down the main north-south road and killing off Stillpine Hold, Azure Watch, and Odysseus' Landing. One Draenei was unlucky enough to be flagged, and they started corpse camping her. And I remember at least one player who had the misfortune of starting Kessel's Run right after the horde people started doing this (for those who haven't played Draenei, Kessel's Run is a quest on a 15 minute timer that puts you on an elekk and has you ride around Azuremyst warning the leaders of the three quest hubs that these undead were spawn camping).

And, of course, since Azuremyst is so out of the way, it took at least 10-15 minutes for Alliance players in a heavily Alliance server to gather up enough people who cared to drive them off. And most of them were probably the mains of people who were trying to level a draenei alt before those jackasses rolled in.

[Maxentius]

And even with subpar gear I crit (frequently) for 13k. That's one hell of a good ability when it's fully buffed, with items to reduce the cost, and with a massive mana pool to support it. Some Healadins even chain cast Holy Light, something I've never even dreamt of doing.

I've had Holy Lights crit as high as 26,000, but keep in mind that my Paladin is wearing full Tier 7 with complimentary 25-man Heroic drops, so I am on the upper end of the gear curve. While it's nice to have such a massive heal nuke, it's not the punch that pleases me, but as you said, the reduced cost and the massive mana pool. I've never ended up chain casting Holy Light save certain, extreme situations, but even then it does burn through my mana pool rather quickly. It's nothing like the days of old when four Holy Lights would obliterate your mana pool, but even allowing for returns from Illumination and my Soul of the Dead, I'm generally going through mana faster than I'm regaining it.

Divine Plea, however, can often make this a moot point. There have been situations where I've chain-cast Holy Light if only for the glyph function to sprinkle all over the melee group, which can be invaluable if you get an unlucky icebolt on Kel'Thuzad. The abundance of haste items also makes it even better -- with some lucky trinket procs coupled with Judgments of the Just and Infusion of Light/Light's Grace, I can sometimes get a Holy Light off in .6 seconds, which is just jaw-dropping.

I haven't seen many real uses for Beacon so far. When there's significant raid healing due to AoE it's nice so that you don't need to worry so much about the tank, and I assume it would be useful in PvP, but honestly I consider it pretty lackluster for a 51-point talent. There's nothing else better to spend that point on, but it lacks the awesomeness of many other 51-point talents, including the other two available to Paladins.

The only time I find Beacon to really shine is when you know that you're going to have a target taking steady spikes of damage. It really shines on Patchwerk; I can put the Beacon on the Main Tank and then heal the Off-Tank directly. Since the OT takes more damage from Hatefuls, the lack of overhealing transfer never becomes an issue.

The lack of overhealing transfer is what makes it rather anemic, I think. Don't get me wrong, it's a very useful skill in certain situations, but it's nothing more than an oblique approach to rudimentary AOE healing. Helpful, but as you said, it just feels like a let-down compared to other 51-pointers.

Agreed. Mine are around thereabouts now as well, and that makes us staggaringly mana efficient when using FoL (which was already a very mana efficient heal). Aside from that, the damage mitigation is nontrivial - 500+75% of spellpower is a very nice chunk, and the buff reappears about every 6 seconds (assuming the player is getting hit continuously). And since the cost is low and it has no cooldown, I've used it to buff the melee and pets in my group - last night our Druid and my girlfriend's Felguard were taking some hits, and Sacred Shield made a very noticeable reduction in the damage they were taking.

The spellpower coefficient and the reapplication are what make Sacred Shield so great, imo. A shield that absorbs ~2000 damage and reapplies itself after being broken is just phenomenal. If you really want to have some fun, pop Divine Illumination and slap it on the entire raid.

[SpacedTeddyBear]

Unless you are cool, then you time your attack on alliance cities to happen about 5 minutes after Wintergrasp starts and blitz through them while all the other sides heavies are occupied. That's fun. We actually managed to snake Tyrande and Valen that way.

The group I was with did exactly that. There was a mad dash to fill in some healer spots ( they seem to be low on my server), but it was done. ~40 minutes later, we downed all 4 horde leaders.

Rogues are a different story. I don't honestly think Blizzard knows what the fuck they are going to do about rogues in PvP. Everyone except some rogues acknowledge that rogues are insane right now and need to get on the nerf block.

I basically bubble on on the first cheapshot, hit seal of vengeance, and hope I get a few hits on him b4 the bubble wears off or he vanishes. I've lost count the number of times where I was a bit slow on the bubble, and watched my health zip toward the redline.

How to say this. I mean... Who the fuck thought it was a good idea to make it so a single lvl71+ player can, by itself, completely lock down quest nodes (aka towns)

While I was leveling my main, Darkshire and Westfall got hit almost everyday. Darkshire especially because of the long straight road that runs through it.

[Kuja]

But regardless, Blizzard has given Holy Paladins a lot of new tools, almost all of which are exceptional. I'm still a little iffy on Beacon of Light -- it's great on Patchwerk and Malygos and Sapphiron, but on other fights I don't really use it at all, and when I do the uptime is nowhere near 100%.

I haven't seen many real uses for Beacon so far. When there's significant raid healing due to AoE it's nice so that you don't need to worry so much about the tank, and I assume it would be useful in PvP, but honestly I consider it pretty lackluster for a 51-point talent. There's nothing else better to spend that point on, but it lacks the awesomeness of many other 51-point talents, including the other two available to Paladins.

I think Beacon could use a bit of a buff (I think Holy paladins in general could use a bit of a buff, but that's another time) but even as it is, it's an absolute must-have for multitarget fights. There's no possible way I could have healed heroic Sjonnir the other night with his constant add stream and randum lightning shocks without beacon being on the tank. In raids, especially 25-mans there's less pressure to use it since a paladin is going to be planted on the main tank anyway but for 5-man work it is crucial.

[Broomstick]

While I was leveling my main, Darkshire and Westfall got hit almost everyday. Darkshire especially because of the long straight road that runs through it.

Not just because of the road - a run through Darkshire is essential for the first time Horde go to either Swamp of Sorrows or the Blasted Lands (also for Deadwood, but that's another pass-through and not typically a destination on that first run). So there have always been level 40+ Horde barreling through that zone on their way to somewhere else who have stopped and taken the opportunity to annoy the Alliance along the way.

[Gil Hamilton]

Once a upon a time, those used to be prime PvP locations because BGs weren't in the game yet. Before the patch that added Warsong Gulch and Alterac Valley, there were the great World PvP wars, particularly at Tarren Mill and Crossroads, but also in Darkshire and Westfall if a Horde group was feeling ambitious.

Those were alot of fun. A typical Tarren Mill battle went something like this on Alleria.

Stage 1: An Alliance guy starts some trouble, either ganking a guard or flagging in order to start a fight.
Stage 2: A Hordie takes the bait and there is a brawl somewhere south of Tarren Mill.
Stage 3: Some passersby happen upon it and the call goes out that shit is going down.
Stage 4: Alliance gank the Hordies and chase them back into Tarren Mill. About now people who happen to be in the area start showing up and there is a face off on the skirts of town.
Stage 5: Deathguard Zerg Rush happens, the Alliance group breaks, and they are chased back to Southshore.
Stage 6: Possibly some back and forth as more people show up, but mostly at Southshore because typically Alliance agent provacateurs aren't known for being very good until...
Stage 7: The ground rumbles and the sky becomes black with gryphons, because the guild calls are being responded to. Note that Alleria at this time was 4:1 Alliance to Horde. The first indication that something is terribly wrong on the Horde side is all of a sudden, a massive shockwave of lag strikes. At this point, the smart Hordie makes a run for the Bat once he starts lagging heavily, because in a few seconds, thirty gijillion Allies are going to come pouring out of Southshore.
Stage 8: Unspeakable acts happen to Tarren Mill until the Alliance gets bored and goes home. Generally a good time is had by all because now that everyone is revved up, Crossroads is bound to get hit.

Actually, those old gankfests were alot of fun. Wintergrasp almost is a return to the old World PvP furballs, completely with the oppressive lag and massive gankfests. After all, unlike Alterac Valley, the teams actually HAVE to fight, rather than do dueling raids.

[Rahvin]

But regardless, Blizzard has given Holy Paladins a lot of new tools, almost all of which are exceptional. I'm still a little iffy on Beacon of Light -- it's great on Patchwerk and Malygos and Sapphiron, but on other fights I don't really use it at all, and when I do the uptime is nowhere near 100%.

I haven't seen many real uses for Beacon so far. When there's significant raid healing due to AoE it's nice so that you don't need to worry so much about the tank, and I assume it would be useful in PvP, but honestly I consider it pretty lackluster for a 51-point talent. There's nothing else better to spend that point on, but it lacks the awesomeness of many other 51-point talents, including the other two available to Paladins.

I think Beacon could use a bit of a buff (I think Holy paladins in general could use a bit of a buff, but that's another time) but even as it is, it's an absolute must-have for multitarget fights. There's no possible way I could have healed heroic Sjonnir the other night with his constant add stream and randum lightning shocks without beacon being on the tank. In raids, especially 25-mans there's less pressure to use it since a paladin is going to be planted on the main tank anyway but for 5-man work it is crucial.

The problem is that Beacon is crucial because it's the only tool we have for multitarget healing - the Holy Light Glyph doesn't do nearly enough to count as a true AoE heal. If you need a hammer but all you have is a wrench, you'll use the wrench and wish you had a hammer. Beacon should have been a true AoE heal - something like:

"25% base mana
Instant Cast
40 yd range
30 second cooldown
The target becomes a Beacon of Light for 30 seconds. Up to x group or raid members within 15 yards of the Beacon of Light will receive y% of any healing done to the Beacon."

That would make it roughly analogous to Chain Heal, except it requires keeping a buff on the tank at all times. You could make the healing less on average than the splash healing done by Chain Heal, but Paladins could really, really use either a true AoE healing ability or a decent HoT (hell, Shamans got a nice new HoT with the patch, which was really the only healing ability they were lacking - we got freaking Beacon, which leaves us with neither a HoT nor an AoE).

I play a Death Knight, a Warlock, and my Paladin (with Warrior/Druid/Shaman alts all above 60), and none of their 51-point talents in any of their trees feel so underpowered as Beacon.

[Kuja]

I haven't seen many real uses for Beacon so far. When there's significant raid healing due to AoE it's nice so that you don't need to worry so much about the tank, and I assume it would be useful in PvP, but honestly I consider it pretty lackluster for a 51-point talent. There's nothing else better to spend that point on, but it lacks the awesomeness of many other 51-point talents, including the other two available to Paladins.

I think Beacon could use a bit of a buff (I think Holy paladins in general could use a bit of a buff, but that's another time) but even as it is, it's an absolute must-have for multitarget fights. There's no possible way I could have healed heroic Sjonnir the other night with his constant add stream and randum lightning shocks without beacon being on the tank. In raids, especially 25-mans there's less pressure to use it since a paladin is going to be planted on the main tank anyway but for 5-man work it is crucial.

The problem is that Beacon is crucial because it's the only tool we have for multitarget healing - the Holy Light Glyph doesn't do nearly enough to count as a true AoE heal. If you need a hammer but all you have is a wrench, you'll use the wrench and wish you had a hammer. Beacon should have been a true AoE heal - something like:

"25% base mana
Instant Cast
40 yd range
30 second cooldown
The target becomes a Beacon of Light for 30 seconds. Up to x group or raid members within 15 yards of the Beacon of Light will receive y% of any healing done to the Beacon."

That would make it roughly analogous to Chain Heal, except it requires keeping a buff on the tank at all times. You could make the healing less on average than the splash healing done by Chain Heal, but Paladins could really, really use either a true AoE healing ability or a decent HoT (hell, Shamans got a nice new HoT with the patch, which was really the only healing ability they were lacking - we got freaking Beacon, which leaves us with neither a HoT nor an AoE).

I play a Death Knight, a Warlock, and my Paladin (with Warrior/Druid/Shaman alts all above 60), and none of their 51-point talents in any of their trees feel so underpowered as Beacon.

Dude, you're going to get no argument from me. Seriously. I'm the kind of guy who still thinks they need to bring mass-resurrection back just to help balance healing classes. What I was trying to reply to was your point about "I haven't seen many real uses for Beacon so far." I'd say acting as the crucial make or break between being able to heal heroics and not having the ability to do so is a pretty important distinction, even though Holy still needs a lot of work.

[Gil Hamilton]

Wouldn't the necessity of a mass rez actually mean that Paladins need buffed in healing? Seems like rezzing is a moot point if your healing is good.

But yeah, they could have made Beacon of Light better. I really think they've got it stuck in their head that Paladins will do the single target healing and Shamans will do the raid healing. We had a joke that with other classes getting AoE heals of sorts, Chain Heal for Shamans would be buffed like so:

"Chain Heal now jumps to 24 targets in addition to the original target."

In addition, they'd get a Totem of Chain Heal, which does the same thing, but automatically. Plus, a Glyph of Meter Topping would be added to shamans which actually removed HoTs from people effected by Chain Heal, automatically healing them for the remainer of the HoT, and crediting the healing to the Shaman.

[Rahvin]

Wouldn't the necessity of a mass rez actually mean that Paladins need buffed in healing? Seems like rezzing is a moot point if your healing is good.

But yeah, they could have made Beacon of Light better. I really think they've got it stuck in their head that Paladins will do the single target healing and Shamans will do the raid healing. We had a joke that with other classes getting AoE heals of sorts, Chain Heal for Shamans would be buffed like so:

"Chain Heal now jumps to 24 targets in addition to the original target."

In addition, they'd get a Totem of Chain Heal, which does the same thing, but automatically. Plus, a Glyph of Meter Topping would be added to shamans which actually removed HoTs from people effected by Chain Heal, automatically healing them for the remainer of the HoT, and crediting the healing to the Shaman.

Chain Heal is just staggeringly powerful, particularly with the new Glyph.

But I don't begrudge Shaman's their signature healing ability. The game needs a variety of capable healers to prevent FOTM nonsense and raids who exclude players in favor of individual classes. After all, Paladins have advantages of their own - our single-target healing is also extremely powerful, we crit freaking often, we have extreme mana-efficiency, and we have a large variety of powerful buffs available as well.

But the problem is as mentioned - it is difficult for Paladins to heal in a raid or even Heroic situation because Beacon of Light is our only tool, and it is a lackluster one. It gets the job done, but it's not nearly as effective as the tools every other healing class has available - that being an AoE heal and a HoT. We don't even need both - just give us one. Being extremely good at single-target healing doesn't help us in Heroics when the boss AoE starts flying around, or when we need to Cleanse a bunch of poisons.

I think you're right - Blizzard has pigeonholed Holy Paladins to a specific healing role and is reluctant to give us the tools to grow beyond that niche. It's a shame, because they've reconsidered their positions on DPS and tanking, and are actively trying to make all DPS specs capable of similar damage, and all tanks capable of main tanking in raids. I'd really like to see healers get the same treatment as tanks - significantly varies playstyles for each class with strengths and weaknesses, but all capable of solo-healing Heroics and main-healing in raids. And yes, I realize that we can do those things right now, it just seems significantly more difficult because of our disappointing 51-point talent.

[Minischoles]

Well if you read some of what GC writes, healing is supposed to have changed, but if anything its exactly the same as it was at the start of WoW raiding. As a healer you spend far too much of your time staring at health bars, staring at DBM to see what boss abilities are coming and to plan heals, managing your mana and chosing out your heals. Theres no different playstyle, its really just the same all that has changed are the tools you have.

But I actually feel quite blessed to be a resto druid right now as we're very versatile, especially with the new regrowth and HT glyphs. It means we can pretty much do everything in a dungeon, and to a lesser extent inside a raid. As well as being one of the best raid healers in the game still (wild growth helps, but resto druids spanked shamans all over the healing meters without it and we still will), we can cover the damage on a tank with hots to help other healers out, and as an added bonus, with regrowth and HT we've become very powerful tank healers. With my haste and a few procs, I can get 1.1 second regrowths, that crit for around 9k now, and give me something I can swiftmend if needed.

[Lord Revan]

[rant]well the main problem with holy pallies is that since Paladins are only healing class who can wear plate (and prot and Retri don't suck either) and we have decent to great single target healing and mana effiency (I've had mana problems only when healing group/raid), if we got also a half way decent AoE heal and/or DoT the whine would be monumental until Blizzard nerf those to semi-useless (aka to pretty much what the beacon is now), since whiners always merge the 3 specs for pallies (Holy/Prot/Retri) and seem to add some WC3 abilities as well (at least most of the whine about Divine shield to assume the WC3 version (45 sec duration, 1 min Cooldown) rather then the WoW version (12 duration, 5 min Cooldown) so that holy pallies just have to (sadly) live with being a 1 trick pony. [/rant]

[Ender]

And mages are about to get nerfed hardcore. Mage takes out Military wing of Heroic Naxx solo. A 25 man raid done by 1 person. They used spell steal to copy stack bone armor from the main mods (a damage shield good for 1.2m damage) and combined it with a talent that ups spell power by a percentage of damage absorbed. So the mobs were losing their defenses, increasing his, and at the same time his damage output was skyrocketing from the damage that they were not actually inflicting. Welcome to the new instagibbing and mend pet exploit.

[Oskuro]

*watches video*

I hear the nerfbat coming! Also, cool video and nice music (instead of the usual crappy metal tracks).


On a sidenote, have they actually nerfed everything? Because I remember Shadowfang Keep being quite the challenge back when I first did it, and yesterday I went in with my priest alt and some others in our early 20s, and it was ridiculously easy, even Arugal.

Oh well.

[Minischoles]

And mages are about to get nerfed hardcore. Mage takes out Military wing of Heroic Naxx solo. A 25 man raid done by 1 person. They used spell steal to copy stack bone armor from the main mods (a damage shield good for 1.2m damage) and combined it with a talent that ups spell power by a percentage of damage absorbed. So the mobs were losing their defenses, increasing his, and at the same time his damage output was skyrocketing from the damage that they were not actually inflicting. Welcome to the new instagibbing and mend pet exploit.

That was pretty hardcore, its actually currently one of the ways you can do the Instructor Razuvious fights without 2 priests to mind control. Just have a tank offtanking that and let the mage tank using Bone Shield. Works pretty well unless he uses his hard strikes which can hit for about 500k per hit and can nuke through that Bone Shield.
So it'd be a bit annoying if that got the nerf bat, of course they might just change Incanters Absorption to prevent that kind of stacking, maybe a hidden internal CD like windfury has.

[Crown]

I don't think they'll do anything at this time. A Warlock solo'd Hydros and they never changed anything there, granted it took him 4 hours to do it, but yeah.

[Civil War Man]

Personally, if I were Blizzard, I'd let the Mage thing slide. It shows a level of ingenuity to get around a problem (lack of Mind Control), where most other groups would either wait around to recruit priests, go run something else, or call the raid off.

And it's not as if that made the fight trivial. I read about that fight a few days ago, and if I recall correctly, the original mage tank died and a second one had to spellsteal and take over.

[Sharp-kun]

Simple fix is put a limit on the % his spellpower can be increased by, same as they put a cap on reckoning.

[Crown]

Simple fix is put a limit on the % his spellpower can be increased by, same as they put a cap on reckoning.

Bring back OLD SCHOOL Reckoning!

Sorry, but had to say it. Current Reckoning is only good for AoE grind, and you would never put more than 3 points into it as an 80 tanking build, might even make Protadins somewhat viable in PvP again ... lol, one shotting a Rogue for the absolute best time!

[Minischoles]

I don't think they'll do anything at this time. A Warlock solo'd Hydros and they never changed anything there, granted it took him 4 hours to do it, but yeah.

They did, the way he did that was through a simple pathing issue that they fixed in the next patch. But fixing Incanters Absorption will probably be the way they go with this, either the reckoning route, the Eye for an Eye route or even the Windfury route. Blizzard has a whole host of ways of nerfing that ability to stop people building up insane spellpower.

[Sriad]

Holy shit.

I am SO doing that before it gets nerfed. Gonna try it tonight. Makes me glad I missed our 25-man Naxx ID over the holiday week.

[Oskuro]

Simple fix is put a limit on the % his spellpower can be increased by, same as they put a cap on reckoning.

Wich would be logical, since I very much doubt that the original intent was for the mage to have no limit to it's spell power, just as it was with Reckoning, or even with the Warrior's Retaliation, originally there was no limit to the number of counterattacks you would perform while Retaliation was up, wich could get ridiculous aganist large numbers of fast-hitting opponents, so they added a 30-hit cap.

Obviously, Retaliation's usefulness is not on par with old Reckoning or the Mage in the video, but it's something I experienced.

Edit: Hmmmm, my 666th post, do I get some kind of bonus?

[GuppyShark]

Edit: Hmmmm, my 666th post, do I get some kind of bonus?

You get a blue response!

[Oskuro]

You get a blue response!

Groovy! *looks at postcount* Awwww, 667