Reboot

[Darth Yoshi]

As far as the Clone Wars go, something as simple as a significant fraction of the clones disregarding Order 66 for whatever reason (the conditioning didn't take, rumors of Sidious being Palpatine, etc.) would make it an actual Clone War, since you'd have the Republic/Empire loyal clones battling their Jedi loyal brethen, with the traitors being declared mad clones. Or hell, make the Spaarti-style clones a Separatist attempt to create better commanders for the droid armies, except they all succumb to clone madness and devastate portions of the Republic, justifying the anti-cloning sentiments in the post ROTJ EU.

IP, will EU 2.0 explore that timeframe, or was that just a thought?

[Darth Yan]

intriguing; although it does sort of undermine the effect it had in DARK LORD; the very idea of clones disobeying high command surprised the empire so much they had vader butcher half of the unit

[Kartr_Kana]

Easy fix have different cloning companies, Khomm, Spartii, Kamino and Arkania. The Khomm clones being the highest quality and used only for cloning the greatest generals and admirals, they take the longest to and train(18-20 years). Kaminoans are the second best and they "only" take 10 years to grow and train. Arkanian clones can be grown faster then Kaminoan ~4 years, but are more prone to psychological and biological breakdown. Spartii are the cheapest of the cheap, 1 year minimum to grow/train, but are really psychologically unstable and their biological "shelf life" is incredible short.

If the Republic uses mostly Arkanian clones for line troops with the Kaminoan clones for shock troops and elite units. Then have the Arkanian clones support the jedi while the Kaminoan ones support the Republic/Empire. This allows you to keep your Dark Lord bit, but gives us the Clones vs Clones that helps explain the phobia in the subsequent generations.

Also have the Spartii clones be used by various factions on all sides at the beginning of the decade+ Clone Wars. The first ones are unstable, but allow petty conquest which ignite a powder keg of tensions. This leads to the increased demands for clones so the Spartii accelerate their production cycle to help them meet demand and corner the market away from the higher quality companies. Spartii clones start going insane and turning on their masters causing even more chaos.

This rebelling and psychotic random rampaging by insane Spartii clones would be the main reason for clone fears down the road.

To expound on the bit about the Arkanian clones vs the Kamino clones. Say the building tensions that caused planets to start buying clone armies in the first place caused the Republic to order a clone army from the Kaminoans. Unfortunately the wars started before it was ready, so the Republic turned to Arkanians in the interim. By the time the Kaminoan clones were ready, the Arkanian ones had been loyally fighting along side the Jedi for almost a decade. This caused them to have more loyalty to the Jedi then to the Republic. The Kaminoan clones on the other hand are untested and their programmed loyalty for the Republic hasn't been destroyed by years of conflict. Palpantine uses the threat of victorious Jedi coming back at the head of clone armies loyal to them, to spark the fear of a military coup using clones.

A dummy army has been training quite publicly for the last few years to explain the appearance of the army that the Republic had ordered almost 10 years ago. By giving them faceless masks Palpantine hides the fact that they too are actually clones. Using this army with it's superior equipment and numbers he manufactures incidents that allow him to attack the jedi. The loyal Arkanian clones do what everyone fears and side with the Jedi, thus legitimizing Palpantines move in the eyes of the public. On last bloody war is fought and the Empire rises from the ashes.

Episode 1 would cover the start of the violence, following a Princess of Alderaan who as an ambassador for the Senate tries to broker a treaty between to outer rim worlds. Unfortunately her ship gets caught in the cross fire and barely limps to tatooine. The farmers have a semi-organized militia at the time and one of their pilots is Anakin Skywalker. He happens to be the one who escorts her ship down and since he's handy with a "hydrospanner" he offers to help. On board the ship is the Princesses cousin Bail Organa (who is representing Alderaan since she is representing the Senate) and his Jedi general, Obi-wan. Obi-wan senses Anakin's potential and convinces Bail to bring Anakin along so Obi-wan can start training him. They go back to Alderaan and Bail, Obi-wan and Anakin take a fleet to try and enforce a ceasefire between the two planets that got the princesses shuttle fragged in the first place. Que big battle scene with the Alderaanian hero's loosing a battle on two fronts until the spartii clones suddenly go loopy and flee the battle. This allows our hero's to finally law down the law as representatives of the Senate (I forgot they'd been deputized or something like that until the senate could get it's own army/navy up and running).

Episode 2 would take place 4-5 years later and would start out with the princess on another mission. We find out that Anakin has been assigned to lead the fighter wing that protects her. General Obi-wan is serving as the commander of the Republic's Arkanian detachment of (Prince?) Bail's joint task force. They're battling it out with crazy clones and dark jedi on some planet. Through this movie we start to see the budding relationship between Anakin and the Princess. Also through her senatorial position we see him coming into contact with Palpantine and his intense admiration for the man who has remained strong and vowed to re-unite the galaxy. We also see Palpantine start to weave his web around Anakin. This movie ends with Bail and Obi-wan still fighting on the same planet as the beginning. Their arc has mostly centered around the brutality of the crazy clones and the destruction that this war is causing. Que many destroyed cities and hamlets, more Owen and Beru Lars style corpses etc.

Episode 3 starts out 4-5 years after Ep2 with Anakin and Obi-wan fighting side by side on some back water world as they assault the last enemy fortress. After some badass fighting we see them and their troops win. The clones start chanting Obi-wans name as he walks among them checking on the wounded and congratulating them on their historic victory. Anakin gets permission to head back to Coruscant to personally brief the Chancellor and the Senate on the victory. In reality he wants to get back to the princess whom we now find out he quietly married not long ago. Palpantine starts musing to Anakin that he's worried about the clone armies and their Jedi generals. He fears that the public is too afraid of the clones to keep around and that the Jedi are too attached to their men to allow them to be gotten rid of. Anakin while shocked can't help but agree that the Galaxy is to afraid of clones to keep the armies (have to show some kind of dialog and perhaps a riot scene to show this) and mentions that not only are the generals unwilling to see their troops discarded, but that those troops would probably follow their leaders against the Republic if it came to that. Palpantine says they'll give the Jedi a chance to do what's best for the Galaxy and then purposely drives Generals into refusing (not hard considering their talking about killing millions perhaps billions of clones). He then flaunts this (and some "incidents") to show that the Jedi are going to try and take over. He then tells Anakin that as the only Jedi who doesn't lead his own army (since he was body guarding the princess for so long) that he and a few others (mostly non-sensitive agents of Palpantine, but a few Dark Jedi masquerading for the public as good guys) can be trusted to defend the Republic. This leads us to a final battle between the new Stormtroopers (the Kamino Clones) and the Jedi armies. Anakin and Obi-wan confront each other Anakin tries to convince Obi-wan that the Arkanian clones have to go for the greater good. Obi-wan argues that the means can never justify the ends. Someone starts shooting and the too armies engage. Faced with a battle they did not want the two square off and battle. Obi-wan finally manages to disarm and leg Anakin as he's knocked off balance by a "relatively" close shot from a VSD. The shot all but destroys the Arkanians who are rapidly mopped up by the Stormies. Obi-wan protects himself from the edges of the blast by using the force. Still he's flung across the battle field and by the time he locates Anakin the Stormies have recovered his horrifically burned body and are loading it on to a shuttle. Anakin is returned to the Coruscant and in his anger and pain he accepts Palpantines gift of life by becoming his apprentice. Palpantine uses the incident and his popularity to declare himself Emperor. Obi-wan mean while travels to Alderaan and explains to Bail and the Princess what happened (she's there recovering after giving birth to twins). Obi-wan also convinces them that while Anakin is gone (he doesn't explain that Anakin is now Vader) that the Emperor and his new ally Vader knew that she'd been pregnant, so they told the media that there had been a miscarriage. Obi-wan took Luke to Owen and Beru, telling them Luke was Anakin's orphaned son (Owen is Anakin's biological brother) and Bail and his wife adopt a "state" child. The princesses health rapidly declines and within a couple of years she dies from natural causes.

Wow!! I had not planned on doing that!! I hadn't really thought about what would be better then the PT until now. Anyways that was spur of the moment and probably rather shitty because of that. Any comments?

[Darth Yan]

I haven't had time to read it all yet, but seems really really good. It will definately work. Hell it seems better written then the whole PT trilogy. Keep Palps as a sith, and make him be the architect of the war. However, it seems really damn good.

[Kartr_Kana]

oh here's the link to the discussion about the NJO and why the bio-wank has to go.

Oh and thanks for the vote of confidence but you might want to read it all first

[Ryushikaze]

Let's see, first things first, I would insist on a few minor changes to the OT (Han and Greedo both get shots off, but Han is first this time, at the end of ROTJ, we get some scenes of 3P0 and similar golden protocol droids shepherding as many Ewoks as is possible off planet with a line by someone about 'It's the least we can do after how much they tried to help us... and what our actions are about to do to this planet', but otherwise not much).

I'm keeping the PT, but not as is. I'm adding, altering, and editing a lot of stuff. I'm leaving Jar Jar, because he pushes the plot along well enough, but I'm cutting the attempts at humor.

I'm going to add a lot of the deleted things or stuff from the novels in, because length of movie takes backseat to better story.

I don't excise all the EU, but in all but a few cases, I will demand a review and a rewrite.
KT gets the boot entirely, and the Mandalorians get punted back to the backwater power they are.
Boba does die in the Sarlaac pit. Turns out he's died several times, but he has had several clones prepared so he doesn't end up like his dad, and recovers his armor and ship after it happens. He's still an impressive bounty hunter, but he's not wank on a stick, and he is decidedly mentally disturbed as a result of all of this.
I'd seriously rework the NJO. I like the concepts of the Vong, but not to that scale and not as a single faction. I split them into two factions, a death cult who believe their purpose in life is to bring others to their gods by killing them (they believe the shall be the last and most blessed to die), and the Bio cult, who a hypocritical neo-luddites, who use the veneer of bio-tech to hide their very real reliance on modern tech, especially to spread their own message.
LOTF either never happens, or must be completely and utterly reworked. If Mando's appear, they will say the same things about the Jedi that they do in the original, but everyone will know it for the bull it is. Boba will be approached not to learn how to find the Sith, but to find them. If we get any akward Mando training sequence, it will be because Boba demands it, and those asking his help decide to humor him.
I'd keep the Thrawn Trilogy, because it is good story, but the details do need to be reworked slightly. The Katana Fleet will be much larger, both in ship size and number.
Largely, I'd take what we have, and start hammering it to fit, getting rid of the ugliest bits, and then after awhile, I would make a specific embargo on several subjects and characters.
The Solo kids and Luke, for example.

[The Romulan Republic]

Let's see, first things first, I would insist on a few minor changes to the OT (Han and Greedo both get shots off, but Han is first this time,

Why? Its not nessissary. Han should be clever enough to get the first shot, and take out Greedo right then and their. Maybe Greedo fires as a result of an involuntary reflex when he's hit.

at the end of ROTJ, we get some scenes of 3P0 and similar golden protocol droids shepherding as many Ewoks as is possible off planet with a line by someone about 'It's the least we can do after how much they tried to help us... and what our actions are about to do to this planet', but otherwise not much).

Damn it, what is it with the obsession over the supposed Endor Holocaust? Is it just some sadistic bastard offspring of Ewok hate? Is it so hard to believe that they could shield the place, given Star Wars tech?

I'm keeping the PT, but not as is. I'm adding, altering, and editing a lot of stuff. I'm leaving Jar Jar, because he pushes the plot along well enough, but I'm cutting the attempts at humor.

Jar Jar could be made acceptable perhaps if his "humor" was heavilly editted. To really fix Episode One, however, I recomend doing as I believe some fanfic writers have done and add about 5 years to Anakin's age. Also, improve the special effects for Yoda. Or just edit the whole trainwreak out.

and the Mandalorians get punted back to the backwater power they are.

Maybe during the Galactic Empire. However, please tell me you're not going to cut KOTOR? Its one of the few parts of the EU I might actually keep, since its time frame means it doesn't contradict the films and its a fan favorite.

Boba does die in the Sarlaac pit. Turns out he's died several times, but he has had several clones prepared so he doesn't end up like his dad, and recovers his armor and ship after it happens. He's still an impressive bounty hunter, but he's not wank on a stick, and he is decidedly mentally disturbed as a result of all of this.

Would the clones have Boba's memories, and if so, how? Cloned characters, in my mind, are an overused and underthought gimmick.

Also, why can't Boba just have lived? He did go out too easily, or at any rate in a fasion that was almost purely the result of chance. He has pleanty of time to figure a way out of the Sarlac, plus a jetpack and an armor suit full of weapons. Why not just blast a hole in the thing and fly out?

[Kartr_Kana]

You can't keep TTT and the PT. They don't mesh, TTT claims that clones are feared everywhere because of the clone wars. PT makes them into hero's. TTT claims that many clones, especially the early ones were crazy and the rest weren't mentally stable. PT shows perfectly sane clones that have no mental side effects from being cloned. The two just aren't compatible.

Han shot first, end of story.

Who gives a flying fuck about the Ewoks? Plus we see at the end of RotJ that the moon's ecosystem is fine. Maybe the Rebels shielded it some how, who knows, who cares.

Why keep the PT at all? It wasn't horrible it just doesn't fit. And whatever you do Formula 1 racers are NOT pilots, especially 9 year old ones. BTW does anyone remember how Watto found out Ani could drive pods?

I agree with The Romulan Republic, keep the KotOR era Mandalorians, but cut the GE era Mandalorians down to a handful. Maybe just have them exist as a few mercenary units. As for the Mando'a (as opposed to Mandalorians) they never existed or they were some crazy cult of rich boys who wanted the notoriety.

Let Boba live through the sarlacc. His armor is designed to stop blaster bolts a little acid shouldn't be an immediate threat. If his jetpack just misfired and is in working order he can simply fly out. If not he can blast his way out, either with grenades or with the rocket on his pack.

I'm not suggesting we let him stay around forever. Have Boba Fett go after some young and rising bounty hunter. Let the whippersnappers youth allow him to bring down the old man. Or have him get contracted by some wanna be warlord to wipe out a NR installation and he does only he can't get out in time and is incinerated by the reactor going super critical. Actually I'm in favor of killing or retiring the original gang once they hit their 50's.

What's with this clone thingy? You're making him sound like DE palpy or HoT Thrawn. No clones once he dies he stays dead.

I can go with you on the NJO, but the Killik trilogy and the LotF needs to burn.

TTT needs to be corrected for minimalism but that shouldn't really be too hard. 200 of the Saucer battleships from KotOR anyone?

Why should Luke and the Solo kids not get written about? Oh never mind I see what you mean. We give them their stories, but we don't beat them to death.

Oh and I think we need more tales books

[The Romulan Republic]

You can't keep TTT and the PT. They don't mesh, TTT claims that clones are feared everywhere because of the clone wars. PT makes them into hero's. TTT claims that many clones, especially the early ones were crazy and the rest weren't mentally stable. PT shows perfectly sane clones that have no mental side effects from being cloned. The two just aren't compatible.

Damn it, but if I must choose, I choose to keep Episodes 2 and 3. They are an important part of the backstory. That's not to say I'd destroy TTT. It just stays as an alt-universe story. And at the end of the day TTT is not flawless. Minimalism? Determining how an individual's actions based on their culture's art? Plot device Force blockers and the clone fixation? Zahn's writing is a beacon of hope in the dark days of Karen Travis, but its no work of art.

Han shot first, end of story.

I agree. The original version was fine. No need to fix what's not broken, as they say.

Who gives a flying fuck about the Ewoks? Plus we see at the end of RotJ that the moon's ecosystem is fine. Maybe the Rebels shielded it some how, who knows, who cares.

Indeed. Why insist that the Ewoks must be dead? It serves some purpose in making ROTJ darker and showing the price of victory/flaws of the rebellion, but their are other ways to do that. And with that tech level, what's to stop them sheilding the place? The only question is weather the Rebels would consider protecting the Ewoks and Endor to be worth a sheild system.

Why keep the PT at all? It wasn't horrible it just doesn't fit. And whatever you do Formula 1 racers are NOT pilots, especially 9 year old ones. BTW does anyone remember how Watto found out Ani could drive pods?

I'm inclined to let Episode One go. The rest fits ok, unless you insist on keeping things like TTT.

I agree with The Romulan Republic, keep the KotOR era Mandalorians, but cut the GE era Mandalorians down to a handful. Maybe just have them exist as a few mercenary units. As for the Mando'a (as opposed to Mandalorians) they never existed or they were some crazy cult of rich boys who wanted the notoriety.

Thank you very much.

Let Boba live through the sarlacc. His armor is designed to stop blaster bolts a little acid shouldn't be an immediate threat. If his jetpack just misfired and is in working order he can simply fly out. If not he can blast his way out, either with grenades or with the rocket on his pack.

Exactly. Its his "death", not his survival that was illogical.

I'm not suggesting we let him stay around forever. Have Boba Fett go after some young and rising bounty hunter. Let the whippersnappers youth allow him to bring down the old man. Or have him get contracted by some wanna be warlord to wipe out a NR installation and he does only he can't get out in time and is incinerated by the reactor going super critical. Actually I'm in favor of killing or retiring the original gang once they hit their 50's.

Maybe the Imperial remnant hires him to go after Solo again. It let's Han and Boba finally settle things once and for all. Or Boba still hates Jedi because they killed his father, and tries to get revenge on the New Jedi Order. Their are plenty of good, non-lame, non-wank ways to finish off the Boba character.

TTT needs to be corrected for minimalism but that shouldn't really be too hard. 200 of the Saucer battleships from KotOR anyone?

I'm not familliar with those. Now I don't usually feel entirely comfortable with making alterations to an original work of film or literature, but if you do, why not make it 200 of those big Trade Federation battle ships? Perhaps commanded by a Clone Wars-era supership like the Malevolent?

Why should Luke and the Solo kids not get written about? Oh never mind I see what you mean. We give them their stories, but we don't beat them to death.

Announcing something like "we will only publish one Skywalker/Solo story per year" might be a good idea. Also, reserve those stories only for the best writers. If I was running things, getting to write a Skywalker story might be considered an honor and vote of confidence, like winning employee of the year.

[Kartr_Kana]

You can't keep TTT and the PT. They don't mesh, TTT claims that clones are feared everywhere because of the clone wars. PT makes them into hero's. TTT claims that many clones, especially the early ones were crazy and the rest weren't mentally stable. PT shows perfectly sane clones that have no mental side effects from being cloned. The two just aren't compatible.

Damn it, but if I must choose, I choose to keep Episodes 2 and 3. They are an important part of the backstory. That's not to say I'd destroy TTT. It just stays as an alt-universe story. And at the end of the day TTT is not flawless. Minimalism? Determining how an individual's actions based on their culture's art? Plot device Force blockers and the clone fixation? Zahn's writing is a beacon of hope in the dark days of Karen Travis, but its no work of art.

in this little exercise we can rewrite the back story if we feel we have to. I even did a synopsis of what I'd do a few posts up.

Also while I agree with you that TTT is not flawless I still think it's better then Ep 2, and 3. Better writing for one, better character development, and it's just a damn good read. Yes the minimalism, and the Art work bit are problems, although the kind of art or music an individual prefers can give you some insight into how they think it's not going to work across an entire species or race. No comment on the lizards.

How can you claim a clone fixation when the PT is about clones!? General Cody, the Clone Wars movie, etc. LFL has a bigger fixation with clones then anybody. Zahn doesn't even use them as main characters until his later duology. In TTT they're literally a force multiplier and that's it.

Plus the PT is literally not Clone Wars it's Droids vs Clones. They're not bad movies, just not the right ones for the PT.

[The Romulan Republic]

in this little exercise we can rewrite the back story if we feel we have to. I even did a synopsis of what I'd do a few posts up.

Fair enough, I just feel personally uncomfortable with the idea of altering someone else's work. I'd prefer to either keep it intact, or kick it out outright.

Also while I agree with you that TTT is not flawless I still think it's better then Ep 2, and 3. Better writing for one, better character development, and it's just a damn good read.

Oh, its fine. In fact, The Last Command is the only Star Wars book I've ever bought, as opposed to reading in the store or getting at the library.

However, Episodes 2 and 3 do a fine job of providing critical backstory to the OT, and I don't want to change them. If possible, I would try to devise a retcon to allow TTT and the PT to coexist. I'll get back to you on this.

How can you claim a clone fixation when the PT is about clones!? General Cody, the Clone Wars movie, etc. LFL has a bigger fixation with clones then anybody. Zahn doesn't even use them as main characters until his later duology. In TTT they're literally a force multiplier and that's it.

I've enjoyed having a civil discussion thus far, and I'd like to keep it that way, so please don't make rediculous claims.

First, The Clone Wars is not part of the PT persay, and second, the PT is the story of the fall of Skywalker. That's where the focus has always been, weather the title is Revenge of the Sith or The Clone Wars. The clones are a force multiplyer, and an ace in the hole for Palpatine, and occasionally a source for minor characters and side plots. Only Travis's type of wanking makes them anything more.

Zahn, on the other hand, makes them both a critical key to Thrawns victory, and a source of terror for a Galaxy where cloning tech should be wide spread.

Plus the PT is literally not Clone Wars it's Droids vs Clones. They're not bad movies, just not the right ones for the PT.

This, after you claim its got a clone fixation greater than TTT's?

Anyhow, it sounds like the main complaint you have against the PT as being "not the right ones" is that they don't fit The Thrawn Trilogy. A more important question, I think, is what best fits the OT. Now maybe TTT fits the OT better, and if so, that is a reason to keep it and discard the PT films. But I'm still not convinced.

[Kartr_Kana]

I've enjoyed having a civil discussion thus far, and I'd like to keep it that way, so please don't make rediculous claims.

As have I and I will try to keep from making ridiculous claims.

Ok so the Clone Wars comics isn't one of the three movies of the PT, but it fills in the time between ep2 and 3.

Zahn, on the other hand, makes them both a critical key to Thrawns victory, and a source of terror for a Galaxy where cloning tech should be wide spread.

So they aren't critical to Palpantines victory? They aren't his foil for the Seps, they aren't the tool he uses to wipe out the Jedi? They're just a force multiplier, a multiplier of what force? The Republic in the PT has no military until they get the clones. The Empire under Zahn has a military already, and the clones are not vital to the survival of the Empire.

Anyhow, it sounds like the main complaint you have against the PT as being "not the right ones" is that they don't fit The Thrawn Trilogy. A more important question, I think, is what best fits the OT. Now maybe TTT fits the OT better, and if so, that is a reason to keep it and discard the PT films. But I'm still not convinced.

Lets see how well does the PT mesh with the OT. Well in ANH Obi-wan says Owen didn't agree with Anakin and thought he should have stayed on the farm instead of going off on some damn fool crusade. In the AotC Anakin and Owen don't argue about it, in fact Owen doesn't seem to give two shits about what Anakin does. Anakin didn't grow up on the farm so how can he stay? In ANH Obi-wan says Anakin was a great pilot when he first met him, in TPM he's not a pilot he's a race car driver. The ANH novel says that the OR was unassailable from without, yet in the PT we see a Republic with no army, no navy and no way of defending it's self, before the miraculous arrival of the clones. Once again I'll say that droids vs clones a clone war does not make. General Kenobi never serves under Bail Organa.

Now how well does Zahn's TTT mesh with the OT. We'll just look at it's (very few)references to the Clone Wars since we're comparing it to the PT. Pealleon at one point reminisces that the first clones the Navy(Republic presumably) met/fought were very unstable. Here we see that according to TTT the Republic does have a military to defend it's self with and that incident takes place at the beginning of the clone wars which if IIRC according to Paelleons time in the service puts the start at around the same time TPM takes place. I haven't read TTT in a long time so I couldn't remember any more right now. I think for me the biggest thing is how many ways the PT doesn't mesh with the OT.

This, after you claim its got a clone fixation greater than TTT's?

By fixation I meant that the PT focuses a lot more on the actual clones. This opinion comes more from reading the PT era books then the movies though. Since we're talking about keeping or nixing the movies I'll drop the claim that the PT is more clone centric then TTT.

[Darth Yan]

I honestly don't see how the TTT is incompatible with the PT; maybe the pathalogical fear springs from all the devastation that went on during the war. I mean, Billions died, so maybe the people were remembering the devastation that went on, and partially blame the clones.

[Kartr_Kana]

Did you miss the bit about rogue clones, psychotic clones, clones fighting clones and the fact that the Republic has a navy circa TPM according to TTT? None of which happens in the PT.

[Darth Yan]

Yeah, I sort of did;

[Darth Yoshi]

Don't forget, DFR places the height of the Clone Wars before TPM. Assuming an 18 year gap between ROTS and ANH, TPM took place around 40 years before TTT. According to the Noghri, the battle at Honoghr was forty-four years before Leia's visit in DFR. Vader was apparently a Sith by then as well.

[Kartr_Kana]

I haven't read DFR in a while now, how long after the battle did Vader show up?

[Captain Piett]

Don't forget, DFR places the height of the Clone Wars before TPM. Assuming an 18 year gap between ROTS and ANH, TPM took place around 40 years before TTT. According to the Noghri, the battle at Honoghr was forty-four years before Leia's visit in DFR. Vader was apparently a Sith by then as well.

If that's true it would've been a plot hole even before the prequels came out, since Luke and Leia are both younger than 40 c. TTT and obviously Vader wasn't going around fathering babies in his robot suit.

[Kartr_Kana]

That's why I asked when Vader came to Honoghr since I remember it being many years after the incident. Can't say for sure though cause I don't have the book with me and I haven't read it in over a year.

[Kythnos]

You can't keep TTT and the PT. They don't mesh, TTT claims that clones are feared everywhere because of the clone wars. PT makes them into hero's. TTT claims that many clones, especially the early ones were crazy and the rest weren't mentally stable. PT shows perfectly sane clones that have no mental side effects from being cloned. The two just aren't compatible.

With a little rewrite they can be made to fit, TTT claimed that if the Clones where Grown too fast they were not mental stable (if I remember right, will look for where).
Also after the Droid Armies were Beaten, the Emperor might have turned on the Clones. His goal would be to keep the people too afraid to remove his “Special Executive Powers” until he has completely consolidated his power. This might also explain the plural in “Clone Wars” that Obi-wan mentioned in 4.

[Kartr_Kana]

Clones at the "begining of the war" never mind that the beginning was circa TPM. After the Separatist Civil War is over he has no need to worry about them taking away his "Special Executive Powers" he's the Emperor he can do whatever he wants. And what's his greatest and most pervasive tools at this point? The Clones. There's no mention of any conflict with the clones after RotS. They become the stormtroopers, they enforce the Emperors will. Face it you can't have both TTT and the PT. In fact the PT doesn't even mesh well with the OT.

[Ryushikaze]

Why? Its not nessissary. Han should be clever enough to get the first shot, and take out Greedo right then and their. Maybe Greedo fires as a result of an involuntary reflex when he's hit.

Druthers. I like my dramatic tension as two gunfighters go for their guns and a split second's decision of aim and hand change the outcome. It's a small change, but one I think could actually give us a good idea at Han's character. Not the best there is, but fudging it well enough.

Damn it, what is it with the obsession over the supposed Endor Holocaust? Is it just some sadistic bastard offspring of Ewok hate? Is it so hard to believe that they could shield the place, given Star Wars tech?

No, since they did, but they do need to either not have Endor's shield down or do something about the DS2's debris.

Jar Jar could be made acceptable perhaps if his "humor" was heavilly editted. To really fix Episode One, however, I recomend doing as I believe some fanfic writers have done and add about 5 years to Anakin's age. Also, improve the special effects for Yoda. Or just edit the whole trainwreak out.

My Ep1 would be significantly different from the existing Ep1 I can assure you. I'm not entirely sure all of what I'd change there, but Ani would definitely be older, and Paddy would be something other than an elected queen (I'd go with figurehead of state, in a role similar to the monarchy of today, only moreso)

Maybe during the Galactic Empire. However, please tell me you're not going to cut KOTOR? Its one of the few parts of the EU I might actually keep, since its time frame means it doesn't contradict the films and its a fan favorite.

Well, KOTOR is one of the reasons WHY they are a backwater power now. The heyday of the mando is long gone in my SW EU.

Would the clones have Boba's memories, and if so, how? Cloned characters, in my mind, are an overused and underthought gimmick.

Boba would undergo a 'backup' scan every so often, which would be fed into the clones as they are grown. It would not actually produce an identical fett to the dead one for a variety of reasons.

Also, why can't Boba just have lived? He did go out too easily, or at any rate in a fasion that was almost purely the result of chance. He has pleanty of time to figure a way out of the Sarlac, plus a jetpack and an armor suit full of weapons. Why not just blast a hole in the thing and fly out?

Well, in one of my hypotheticals, he does, but the real reason I even suggest any of that is because it sounded interesting off the top of my head. That doesn't mean I'd necessarily do it (Can I make this interesting thought into an interesting story is the metric for that one).

[Kartr_Kana]

Did Boba Fett get the idea of flash imprinting clones with his memory from Thrawn? Maybe Boba Fett is secretly an art critic and figures out what his target is going to do by studying their favorite painting! That's why he's such a bad ass bounty hunter!!!

Seriously it's a rip off of what Thrawn did and as much as like Boba Fett once he's dead he should stay that way.

As for Episode 1 if you're going to keep it Anakin needs to be older and he needs to live on the family farm with his cousin Lars (Anakin's Aunt married a Lars to explain the name difference). He needs to be a real pilot, maybe of a freighter that hauls goods from the other planet in the system(IIRC it's habitable) or he flys for the local militia.

Did you read my idea's for a completely rewritten PT?

[Darth Yoshi]

If that's true it would've been a plot hole even before the prequels came out, since Luke and Leia are both younger than 40 c. TTT and obviously Vader wasn't going around fathering babies in his robot suit.

Where did you get the twins being 40? In TTT they're 27, again assuming the twins were 18 in ANH. I'm saying that Episode I was 40 years prior, ie 4 years after the Honoghr incident.

[Darth Yoshi]

Gah, edit window expired. Meant to add this to my previous post.

That's why I asked when Vader came to Honoghr since I remember it being many years after the incident. Can't say for sure though cause I don't have the book with me and I haven't read it in over a year.

The text doesn't say exactly when Vader first shows up, only that it was shortly after the acid rain began. Here are the relevant excerpts, bolded for emphasis.

A fresh surge of guilt twisted like a blade in [Leia's] stomach. We did this, she thought miserably. Our ship. Our fault. "Was it the rain that killed the plants?"

"The Empire's people had a name for what was in the rain," the maitrakh said. "I do not know what it was."

"They came soon after the disaster, then. The Lord Vader and the others."

"Yes."

Leia looked at [the maitrakh], a sudden horrible realization flashing through her. If Khabarakh was not her son but instead her great-grandson; and if the maitrakh had personally witnessed the space battle that had brought destruction on Honoghr..."Maitrakh, how long has your world been like this?" she breathed. "How many years?"

The Noghri stared at her, clearly sensing the sudden change in mood. "Lady Vader, what have I said—?"

"How many years?"

The maitrakh twitched away from her. "Forty-eight Noghri years, she said. "In the years of the Emperor, forty-four."

Presumably Vader came within a few years of the battle, possibly as soon as a few months after. Either way, it still doesn't mesh with the PT.