SGA 5x19 "Vegas" Talkback (Spoilers)

[JME2]

In the city of Las Vegas, Detective John Sheppard must solve the case on a long string of unusual murders.

***

Well here we go with the usual talkback thread and SGA's penultimate episode...

[CaptJodan]

Stargate: CSI.

It might have been a nice diversion if we weren't leading to the last episode, but what was actually relevant to the plot basically happened in the last two minutes, if that. The rest was useless filler. Not quite sure why the Stargate writers like to dick around with their last few episodes, even if there is a movie coming up. They do really well with most of their 2 and 3 part episodes, then drop the ball on the most appropriate time to use a 2 or 3 parter.
Spoiler

Having already seen the final episode with a friend, what was revealed here is addressed with about as much time devoted to it as it was in this episode, so I don't feel it adds much of anything.

[Themightytom]

Eh, agree to disagree jodan, I don't feel an urgent need for them to wrap up everything in the last episode, I think this was a very effective stand alone episode.

[JME2]

I liked it overall and it was nice how they tied it back into Season 3's "Mr. McKay and Mrs. Miller". And from the preview, I'm pumped for the final episode next week.

4/5

[Alyeska]

I liked it overall and it was nice how they tied it back into Season 3's "Mr. McKay and Mrs. Miller". And from the preview, I'm pumped for the final episode next week.

4/5

There is no connection to "Mr. McKay and Mrs. Miller". In that universe, Sheppard is part of the Atlantis team, and McKay's personality did not match.

[Zac Naloen]

I really thought this episode was fantastic, and seeing as there is zero requirement for Atlantis to wrap the over all wraith plot up at all (every other major plot has already been dealt with) didn't seem out of place at all.

[CaptJodan]

There is no connection to "Mr. McKay and Mrs. Miller". In that universe, Sheppard is part of the Atlantis team, and McKay's personality did not match.

That's something I was wondering about. This McKay said he met another John Sheppard described in a way not dissimilar from the one we know, though as far as I know this McKay didn't seem to be one that did meet our universe's Sheppard. So is the episode implying that this McKay met a John Sheppard like ours, but from yet another universe? It was the only conclusion I could seem to reach, unless I'm forgetting an episode where this guy's personality and background matches (which, like you said, definitely isn't "Mr. McKay"'s McKay.).

Makes the episode even less relevant to the normal flow of time, and gives you no attachment to characters you are meeting for the first time, and know you will never see again.

[NecronLord]

I liked this episode. But I would have personally put it back a few, and knocked out some of those fillers, to expand the next one into a two or three parter.

And I did enjoy seeing a serious drone swarm again. Too long since we've seen those.

[CaptJodan]

And I did enjoy seeing a serious drone swarm again. Too long since we've seen those.

I get the distinct impression that, for whatever reason, the outpost swarms are more effective than the city's version. Despite Atlantis being the last holdout against the Wraith, they don't seem to be a particularly militaristic holdout compared to outposts.

[NecronLord]

Actually, I think the big swarm may be a sign of a clumsy user. The Asurans, who had fully operational ships, fired them in volleys of twenty or so at most, enough to achieve the objective, without wastefully dumping thousands of drones into space, as they did against Anubis.

[GuppyShark]

I thought this was a really great episode. I've been underwhelmed by the last few episodes which seemed to be rehashes of other ideas without really presenting anything new.

We got to see a very different take on the show. Even the cinematography with its loving mimicry of crime shows and the overt use of music alone were great to see.

[Stargate Nerd]

This McKay said he met another John Sheppard described in a way not dissimilar from the one we know, though as far as I know this McKay didn't seem to be one that did meet our universe's Sheppard. So is the episode implying that this McKay met a John Sheppard like ours, but from yet another universe?

Probably. In fact there was another "heroic" Sheppard in the Daedalus Variations.

[CaptainChewbacca]

The McKay in Vegas exists in a unverse we've never seen before. Similarly, the alternate John Sheppard he met is also from a dimension we've never seen before. Infinite variations and all that.

[Alyeska]

I liked the mention about the Star Trek Experience. Especialy Woosley mentioning that it was closed down. Robert Picardo did work for the Experience because of the Borg section and its connection to Voyager. They were making a blatantly obvious play on Picardo's connection to Trek.

[GuppyShark]

Unthinkable!

At least this time it's a well known franchise.

[Bilbo]

So it ties into the main story because of course the timeline that got the message will be the main timeline. What I dont get is why this matters.

Sure its bad that the Wraith know where Earth is. But as a whole the Wraith still do not possess intergalactic hyperdrives. The few ships that did were the two destroyed by Atlantis.

Unless they decide to do a rewrite and have those two Hive Ships have sent the tech they received to the rest of the Wraith which would not fit with how the Wraith do not work with those not in their "clan" so to speak.

[Alyeska]

I imagine if the Wraith came across some ZPMs, that could significantly help their ability to reach Earth. Course god help them. Earth has access to 4 Daedalus class ships (Phoenix is likely in service by now). The Chair Platform. Jaffa allies. And best of all potential Ori assistance.

[Bilbo]

I imagine if the Wraith came across some ZPMs, that could significantly help their ability to reach Earth. Course god help them. Earth has access to 4 Daedalus class ships (Phoenix is likely in service by now). The Chair Platform. Jaffa allies. And best of all potential Ori assistance.

It isnt power source. The two Hiveships were able to make the trip and didnt have upgraded powersources. They had some data stolen from Atlantis. Something that allowed them to enter a more effective hyperspace window would be my guess.

The Wraith were still limited in that they had to come out of hyperspace on ocassion so their hull could regenerate.

[Alyeska]

It isnt power source. The two Hiveships were able to make the trip and didnt have upgraded powersources. They had some data stolen from Atlantis. Something that allowed them to enter a more effective hyperspace window would be my guess.

The Wraith were still limited in that they had to come out of hyperspace on ocassion so their hull could regenerate.

More power lets them consider different options.

[PREDATOR490]

A Wraith ship reaching Earth dosent seem that epic considering the defenses they have however this episode implied that the wave was sent to multiple realties.
If Infinite relaties exist then there will be some where Atlantis has not been discovered by Earth etc.
In which case, those realities will have the Wraith taking them by suprise and ultimately winning which is kinda a bleak note for this series to go out on.

Even if the 'main' one survives, they do so while others are going to suffer the fall and in some cases that might lead to even greater problems. Todd giving that line about Wraith being 'Unending' leads me to the idea that he means while one reality might see them die or the setup for more time-travel BS. Dozens of others will see them survive and conquer Earth, more importantly the Wraith that conquer Earth will be trying to figure out what caused the signal and potentially try to breach into other realties.

This dosent include various other factors from other realties like the Asurans, Goa'uld, Ori, Anubis, Replicators etc.
Once again, if infinite variations exist then there will be some where SG-1 never happened or they lost to the various enemies which means this Wraith signal is gonna be sending a flare to more than the Wraith. The Wraith may not be a threat to Earth but if these realties have them coming to Earth or the Milky Way, the various bad guys are gonna quickly turn their attention to Earth as well.

However, ignoring this rather large unknown. The main threat from Wraith attacking Earth isnt about inflicting damage as much as making the SG program public in the worst possible way. On one hand, I think this concept might make for a nice way to finally reveal the program but on the other. I simply do not see it happening because of the new series and general MO of the franchise.

[Bilbo]

A Wraith ship reaching Earth dosent seem that epic considering the defenses they have however this episode implied that the wave was sent to multiple realties.
If Infinite relaties exist then there will be some where Atlantis has not been discovered by Earth etc.
In which case, those realities will have the Wraith taking them by suprise and ultimately winning which is kinda a bleak note for this series to go out on.

Even if the 'main' one survives, they do so while others are going to suffer the fall and in some cases that might lead to even greater problems. Todd giving that line about Wraith being 'Unending' leads me to the idea that he means while one reality might see them die or the setup for more time-travel BS. Dozens of others will see them survive and conquer Earth, more importantly the Wraith that conquer Earth will be trying to figure out what caused the signal and potentially try to breach into other realties.

This dosent include various other factors from other realties like the Asurans, Goa'uld, Ori, Anubis, Replicators etc.
Once again, if infinite variations exist then there will be some where SG-1 never happened or they lost to the various enemies which means this Wraith signal is gonna be sending a flare to more than the Wraith. The Wraith may not be a threat to Earth but if these realties have them coming to Earth or the Milky Way, the various bad guys are gonna quickly turn their attention to Earth as well.

However, ignoring this rather large unknown. The main threat from Wraith attacking Earth isnt about inflicting damage as much as making the SG program public in the worst possible way. On one hand, I think this concept might make for a nice way to finally reveal the program but on the other. I simply do not see it happening because of the new series and general MO of the franchise.

I remember from a SG1 episode that our reality (ok the main show reality) is rather rare in that it survived the Goa'uld. So a good number of those "other" realities are going to travel to Earth and run into a fully functional Goa'uld Empire in the Milky Way which I bet would just totally assrape the Wraith.

[PREDATOR490]

Life sucking vampires vs. Parasitic creatures that need hosts.

The Wraith might end up becoming the new Unas for Goa'uld but realistically I do not see the Goa'uld being able to effectively fight the Wraith. Granted, they have superior technology but the feudal nature of their leadership makes it likely the Wraith would exploit that weakness and pull them apart. The Wraith did beat the Ancients and Goa'uld tech is not THAT good. The Asgard are going to be dead either from the Replicators or their sickness / suicide which leaves little else to provide technology to fight the Wraith

Goa'uld dont posses the ability to travel from one galaxy to the other and this signal will give the Wraith the advantage. If they arrive they will have devised that travel and will potentially be coming as a unified force like they did in S1. The overall point however remains the same. By introducing this line of thought, SGA is doing the opposite of 'finishing' Atlantis because now I wonder if other universes will start punching their way into the main one in light of this episode.

[FedRebel]

I remember from a SG1 episode that our reality (ok the main show reality) is rather rare in that it survived the Goa'uld. So a good number of those "other" realities are going to travel to Earth and run into a fully functional Goa'uld Empire in the Milky Way which I bet would just totally assrape the Wraith.

Don't be so cocky, The Wraith did defeat the Ancients and it would take time for the Goa'uld to act as a unified force. the system lords would put up a fight, but the Wraith get to play 'divide and conquer' and may have a sufficient tech advantage to make short work of Hatak's. Remember until Anubis hit the scene after his shopping spree at Ascended-Mart the Goa'uld were scared shitless of the Asgard.

[Bilbo]

Life sucking vampires vs. Parasitic creatures that need hosts.

The Wraith might end up becoming the new Unas for Goa'uld but realistically I do not see the Goa'uld being able to effectively fight the Wraith. Granted, they have superior technology but the feudal nature of their leadership makes it likely the Wraith would exploit that weakness and pull them apart. The Wraith did beat the Ancients and Goa'uld tech is not THAT good. The Asgard are going to be dead either from the Replicators or their sickness / suicide which leaves little else to provide technology to fight the Wraith

Goa'uld dont posses the ability to travel from one galaxy to the other and this signal will give the Wraith the advantage. If they arrive they will have devised that travel and will potentially be coming as a unified force like they did in S1. The overall point however remains the same. By introducing this line of thought, SGA is doing the opposite of 'finishing' Atlantis because now I wonder if other universes will start punching their way into the main one in light of this episode.

I remember it being mentioned that they only time the System Lords actually work together is faced with an external threat. The entire Pegasus Galaxy only has 60 Hive Ships. How much total assets can the System Lords gather? Several hundred Hatak at a minimum?

Imagine the ground combat. Wraith drones against Jaffa foot soldiers. I doubt Wraith would easily heal Staff blasts and Wraith weapons built to stun humans might be less effective against a larva carrying Jaffa.

Also was thinking about this more. Any reality that got this message where the Goa'uld took over would be in no danger. Without SGC going to Atlantis there is no way for the Wraith to gain the tech to get to Earth. They will have an address but it would take them centuries to take the trip.

[Bilbo]

I remember from a SG1 episode that our reality (ok the main show reality) is rather rare in that it survived the Goa'uld. So a good number of those "other" realities are going to travel to Earth and run into a fully functional Goa'uld Empire in the Milky Way which I bet would just totally assrape the Wraith.

Don't be so cocky, The Wraith did defeat the Ancients and it would take time for the Goa'uld to act as a unified force. the system lords would put up a fight, but the Wraith get to play 'divide and conquer' and may have a sufficient tech advantage to make short work of Hatak's. Remember until Anubis hit the scene after his shopping spree at Ascended-Mart the Goa'uld were scared shitless of the Asgard.

Bah, The Wraith won becuase the Ancients came in peace, got their ass kicked, and fought an massively outnumbered battle. The Goa'uld wouldnt come in peace ever. Also the Wraith are just as feudal as the Goa'uld. They are just as willing to fight each other as they are Atlantis. The message as far as we know just gave the address of Earth. It didnt tell them about the Goa'uld. So tell me. How are the Wraith going to play divide and conquer against a foe they dont know exist until AFTER they arrive for their free lunch.

What do the Asgard have to do with anything? The modern Asgard could have spanked the Goa'uld any time they wanted to. The only ships we see capable of taking on Asgard ships are Replicators and Ori ships and the latter only lasted until the Asgard built new weapons which when equiped on Earth ships smacked Ori and Wraith ships around just fine.