Let's Play X-COM: UFO Defense!

[The Yosemite Bear]

am I the only one whose getting a rob liefield vibe about the Mutons?

[Ohma]

am I the only one whose getting a rob liefield vibe about the Mutons?

Nah, they don't even have a single pouch to their whole species' name. That's like, Liefeld's nightmare or something.

[Vendetta]

Also, they've got feet. Which is an abomination unto Rob.

[fnord]

The figures I quoted for net profit from manufacture is pretty much that - profit left after paying unit construction costs, salaries for a hundred beered-up engineers, and places to work and sleep. Didn't count in the cost of the beer supply, though.

[Covenant]

Mutons are paper tigers. As stated, they die from one or two hits from anything larger than a laser rifle, which is available long before you have to do any heavy lifting, usually. In TFTD I made it a point to ignore any UFO activity I didn't feel like doing 100 percent well, and even so I had success ratings that were absurdly high: many thousands of points at month end, tens of thousands, stupidly high. In X-Com it is even easier, as you can ignore most of the early UFO activity and not even bother with interceptions until you see a large craft. Early game Avalance missiles can down those ships and that'll let you capture a Sectoid leader, but nothing else is worth it. You won't even have to fight until you get laser rifles or pistols, which makes your life a lot simpler. I often prioritized getting 100 or 150 scientists as early as possible, and then made a base just to create money-making items. You really never need to lose anyone if you stay a step ahead. You can finish the game long before the game is prepared for you to.

As for the weapons, there is simply not enough of a Tactical game there for most of these advanced weapon mechanics to do anything. Suppressive fire only works if the computer can avoid it. Sniping only matters if distance to target matters. Shotguns are only viable if there's a decrease in damage by distance to target. Since none of these things are in X-Com the best kind of weapon variation for the old X-Com itself would have been from giving the snakemen and mutons vastly more hitpoints and giving more opportunities to use weapons with Damage Types that meant something. Fire hurts any X-Com operative not in armor, but personal armor makes them immune. However, smoke will still add to his stun rating, so you can choke and pass out if you don't have a sealed powersuit, at which point you're immune. Aliens, sadly, don't take this kind of damage. X-Com just makes it all boil down to using Laser Rifles and then Heavy Plasmas. I don't believe in bothering with lasers once you get HP's. I prefer the chance of automatic knockdown even in the hands of a rookie that a plasma offers.

A tactical game doesn't need lots of weapons honestly, all it needs are a few useful mechanics. X-Com is a great game and the tactical aspects are really fun because the enemies are pretty brutal on your squad, not because they're smart. Once you realize that they mostly just wander back and forth within a given 10x10 area of the map you can learn how to isolate and pick them off without ever losing a soldier. Exploiting the infinite range of weapons to call in cross-map sniper shots will make the game an absolute cakewalk 90 percent of the time. There's tense moments, but mostly because you're afraid of losing a single soldier, not a team.

[Covenant]

Err, well, not tens of thousands of end-of-month points. I got some pretty high ones--I loaded up an old savegame just now and ran the month out--ten days of nearly nonstop base invasion attempts and a few minor issues too, but base defenses held them off. I shot down and ignored a USO attack. Apparently my X-Com forces were hugely in debt at the moment so I could probably improve my score by selling off some stuff to improve my finances. Regardless, I got an end-of-month report of 3,200+

[Ohma]

Well, Mutons can be pretty hard to beat, I routinely hit them in the face with HWP rockets without killing them.

But like you and others have said, the Heavy Plasma does ridiculously high damage, so once you have those (and by the time you start encountering Mutons, you usually will) things like Mutons shrugging off explosives stop being problems.

[Covenant]

Well, Mutons can be pretty hard to beat, I routinely hit them in the face with HWP rockets without killing them.

But like you and others have said, the Heavy Plasma does ridiculously high damage so once you have those things like Mutons shrugging off explosives stop being problems.

Thing is, heavy weapon platforms could be entirely unarmed and they'd still be as useful to me. A heavy weapon platform should realistically never even have to fire, it's purpose is that of a spotter. It has ridiculously huge amounts of time units and is also durable enough to survive a few hits--the later ones especially. Furthermore, they're cheaper than a soldier by far, since generating 400k is simple enough with an engineering base and you can't simply buy back a dead soldier--or unwound one.

So how to use them best? Roam them around using their ridiculous movement speed until they see something--and then have all of your soldiers 300 yards away fire at the target. Pivot your forces around the tank, keeping the tank between your soldiers and any unknown areas. This works better if you have two tanks. Do it this way and your soldiers get all the kills, and thus experience, and become super badasses. Plus, you need fewer troops, so the ones you have can be good psionic manipulators. It works wonders. You almost never lose.

[Peptuck]

Well, Mutons can be pretty hard to beat, I routinely hit them in the face with HWP rockets without killing them.

But like you and others have said, the Heavy Plasma does ridiculously high damage so once you have those things like Mutons shrugging off explosives stop being problems.

Thing is, heavy weapon platforms could be entirely unarmed and they'd still be as useful to me. A heavy weapon platform should realistically never even have to fire, it's purpose is that of a spotter. It has ridiculously huge amounts of time units and is also durable enough to survive a few hits--the later ones especially. Furthermore, they're cheaper than a soldier by far, since generating 400k is simple enough with an engineering base and you can't simply buy back a dead soldier--or unwound one.

So how to use them best? Roam them around using their ridiculous movement speed until they see something--and then have all of your soldiers 300 yards away fire at the target. Pivot your forces around the tank, keeping the tank between your soldiers and any unknown areas. This works better if you have two tanks. Do it this way and your soldiers get all the kills, and thus experience, and become super badasses. Plus, you need fewer troops, so the ones you have can be good psionic manipulators. It works wonders. You almost never lose.

Also, aliens will prioritize your tanks over your infantry everytime, making them great for drawing fire and distracting enemies.

Working on next update; haven't had a whole lot of time to write or play X-COM this weekend.

[Eulogy]

Not to mention that tanks can provide cover in a pinch, are immune to psi and stun, can't be zombified, has comparable armour to Power/Flying Suits, are instantly repaired after missions (and don't get fatal wounds), don't panic or go berserk, and last but not least tanks can help clear away cover if they have spare TUs to burn.

Tanks are great. Laser tanks should be all you need.

[Peptuck]

Okay, next update is definitely going to take a while. Got most of the way through March and the game bugged ot on me before I could save our progress.

Which is really a good thing, as the only thing we did so far in March was miserably and repeatedly fail to catch any UFOs.

[Zixinus]

You can see in the above why I would be the self-proclaimed weapons guy.

While a potential 19 shots per turn might sound a little extreme, the gun and ammunition are heavy and will hamper the mobility of your trooper.

Like a ginormous rocket launcher would? Or an auto-cannon, that can fire both armour-piercing, incendiary and explosive bullets?

I wouldn't differentiate between semi-auto and bolt-action rifles, myself. These aren't actual snipers, just designated marksmen, so they would probably benefit more from a semi-automatic weapon, anyways. I wouldn't give it automatic fire, though.

Unless you mean aimed automatic fire, then I have to ask: Didn't you read what I've written?

Sniper doesn't mean "snap-shooter". Snipers have to aim their rifles just like everybody else and the main reason that teams often miss is that they're don't have time.

Furthermore, there is very little point of pointing out a sniper, especially when your initial weapon is accurate enough (aimed fire net you 80% change of a hit, not counting bonuses from being marksmen and from kneeling).

The idea of giving a weapon that is big (sniper rifles are accurate significantly because they have long barrels remember?) and can only perform one role isn't really that useful to add into the game. You already have a weapon that performs that task well AND is a somewhat-capable weapon in close combat because of its automatic fire.

So, really, why throw away an already accurate weapon for another that's only marginally more accurate at the combat ranges X-Com fights?

Besides, if you insist, there is already a sniper rifle in the game: the heavy laser.

The ammunition capacity is ludicrously low, when you think about it. The rifle should have a 30-round clip, the pistol 8-12 or so.

Assuming you are using NATO standard rounds. Bigger bullets mean less ammunition in a clip.

Also, what are you talking about? According to UFOpedia, the pistol has 12 round clip.

Yes, Vendetta, I think we all understand that you believe the weapon layout is perfect as is, and that the ludicrous levels of abstraction that limit the avaliable tactics to "bring the biggest bloody gun you can find" are a good thing.

Yes, because its important to have realistic tactics in a video game.

Overall, you want to gain advantage by incorporating more weapons into the game, thus becoming more realistic yet these weapons would actually be realistically inferior to what you already have.

[Covenant]

Yes, Vendetta, I think we all understand that you believe the weapon layout is perfect as is, and that the ludicrous levels of abstraction that limit the avaliable tactics to "bring the biggest bloody gun you can find" are a good thing.

Yes, because its important to have realistic tactics in a video game.

Overall, you want to gain advantage by incorporating more weapons into the game, thus becoming more realistic yet these weapons would actually be realistically inferior to what you already have.

Weapon variation isn't such a bad thing, and having more realistic tactics in a game is usually a good thing--reality is fairly intuitive, and it'll open the door for some deeper tactics. What's the point of a tactical game if there's no tactic to use other than "shoot the enemy from long range" like some of these games offer? It doesn't need weapon bloat, there's a number of factors which could have improved the richness of the experience and I don't think any of them really require more weapons. A big one would have been making weapons lose accuracy and damage over distance.

[Acidburns]

I was feeling inspired by this thread, so I took advantage of Steam's weekend deal and got the whole X-com set for a mere 3 quid. I used to have X-com Terror from the deep on my PSone, and I finished X-com Apocalypse, so I decided to start with the more difficult Terror from the deep.

[MJ12 Commando]

I was feeling inspired by this thread, so I took advantage of Steam's weekend deal and got the whole X-com set for a mere 3 quid. I used to have X-com Terror from the deep on my PSone, and I finished X-com Apocalypse, so I decided to start with the more difficult Terror from the deep.

Hey man, we'll be here for you when you start crying. Remember, it's okay to cry when you play TFTD.

[Covenant]

I was feeling inspired by this thread, so I took advantage of Steam's weekend deal and got the whole X-com set for a mere 3 quid. I used to have X-com Terror from the deep on my PSone, and I finished X-com Apocalypse, so I decided to start with the more difficult Terror from the deep.

Hey man, we'll be here for you when you start crying. Remember, it's okay to cry when you play TFTD.

People need to man up. Neither X-Com nor TFTD is that hard if you play the game with a degree of competance. You can break the game entirely if you make use of the infinite range on your weaponry, take things slow, and do a lot of creeping fire with grenades.

Honestly, it's not that hard.

[Ohma]

That infinite range on weapons bit makes everything so much less difficult on its own. Practically the only times my dudes have died lately (now that I've been taking advantage of that) has been in crowded environments with a lot of corners for aliens to hide behind.

[Covenant]

That infinite range on weapons bit makes everything so much less difficult on its own. Practically the only times my dudes have died lately (now that I've been taking advantage of that) has been in crowded environments with a lot of corners for aliens to hide behind.

Exactly! If you have a tank or two to scout ahead for you, you can pivot your forces around at all times and insure that no shots are ever taken from within the alien's maximum sight range. That will make it pretty hard for the enemy to hit you afterall, but the interiors aren't that bad either. The explosion range on an alien grenade, especially in TFTD, is so large that you can easily toss one at a corner or at an angle around one and obliterate any kind of ''just around the corner'' style hazards.

Since you get so many, and can buy your own, you have no reason not to. X-Com has very little benefit from good scores and high funding when money isn't being spent, so buy as many grenades as you can and use them all the time until you collect alien ones, and then send your soldiers in with 3, with the assumption they'll attempt to use one or two of them on average. Then once molecular control is available, it's basically all over for the enemy.

The biggest thing to remember is that aliens have morale. Firing at them from out of their vision range, killing them without them getting a human kill on you, and so forth... this ruins their morale. The higher squad sizes on higher difficulty levels helps you, since you are more able to kill a higher ranking officer or a few soldiers and then cause the enemy to go berserk or panic. A paniced enemy is a free capture, and once the enemy starts panicing (it won't take long) the mission is basically over.

[Zablorg]

The X-Com complete Pack is available on Steam now for 5 dollars.

Just sayin'.

[MJ12 Commando]

People need to man up. Neither X-Com nor TFTD is that hard if you play the game with a degree of competance. You can break the game entirely if you make use of the infinite range on your weaponry, take things slow, and do a lot of creeping fire with grenades.

Honestly, it's not that hard.

X-Com, yeah, but in TFTD the most effective weapons in the lategame are the thermic lance/thermal shock launcher, the sight ranges are decreased underwater (then often further decreased for nighttime), etc, etc. I can understand saying X-Com isn't hard but TFTD goes out of its way to be difficult.

[Covenant]

People need to man up. Neither X-Com nor TFTD is that hard if you play the game with a degree of competance. You can break the game entirely if you make use of the infinite range on your weaponry, take things slow, and do a lot of creeping fire with grenades.

Honestly, it's not that hard.

X-Com, yeah, but in TFTD the most effective weapons in the lategame are the thermic lance/thermal shock launcher, the sight ranges are decreased underwater (then often further decreased for nighttime), etc, etc. I can understand saying X-Com isn't hard but TFTD goes out of its way to be difficult.

It's really not all that bad. You should always be scouting with your tanks (that's what they're for, afterall) and the most dangerous critters don't even appear on land missions. No tentaclauts, no xarquids, and though the game starts getting much, much harder once you get access to molecular control, people overcommit to battles too often. Sometimes you just gotta walk away--and pulling out of a mission is a very wise tactical move. I'd stun a target, toss it to the craft, and just dust off. If you can't handle a threat, don't handle it. You're better off landing, taking a few shots at the landing area guys, and then leaving.

[Peptuck]

Okay, finally got around to redoing March.

The good news is, we're doing better this time around at knocking the xenos out of the skies, and we raided a UFO we haven't seen before.

The bad news is....



Goddamn, we're going to need some more recruits.

More detailed update later.

[White Haven]

Nooooh, don't let Haven be asploded!

[Zablorg]

My death is going to be better than all of yours!



GET BEHIND ME DOCTOR

HUEEEEEERRRGH

HURAAAAAAAAUGH

CRY SOME MOOOOOOORE

YAAAAAAAAAAAH

HAHAHAHAAAAA

[Hawkwings]

Oh noes, does this mean my tank is trashed again?

The great part is that the rating is Good!