Reboot

[Kartr_Kana]

I ended up ditching the PT and PT EU myself. I wanted to rehabilitate TTT and its just too hard to square with a PT that's not very good anyway. And I always hated the Clone Wars we got.

Did you read my alt clone wars synopsis?

I grab the PT by the throat and strangle out every last mention of Kamino, droid armies, and while I'm at it fuck'n Naboo (just so we never have to suffer through the worst stupidities of TPM). I keep the basic plot of the PT, but by damn, the Clone Wars are going to actually feature clones fighting fuck'n clones!

So basically the Seps use clones too? And there is no TPM?

[Formless]

So basically the Seps use clones too? And there is no TPM?

Yes, the Separatists would be clone users (why don't they call them the Droid wars instead? PT doesn't play well with the parts of the EU that are actually good). And TPM would happen, it just wouldn't happen on Naboo so we wouldn't have to figure out what to do with Jar-jar et al, and the events would be expanded so that it could credibly be called an actual crisis situation for the galaxy, rather then the insignificant tariff whining that it comes off as.

[Havok]

This is from another thread about a similar idea...

Speakin' of Clones...

My Cone Wars/clone idea has been that the human genome has been mapped. It is understood, so cloning isn't exactly what we think of it. Clones do not have to be and are not identical copies anymore and haven't been for a long time, although the term is still commonly used.
Basically a computer uses material from several sources and randomizes the clones so there are none that are identical. It is just "growing" people. More like accelerated test tube babies than clones.

By law, clones, if they are created, are required to be given individual personalities and free will. Cloning for labor and military service is outlawed. Control programing is outlawed as well too. Cloning itself is not outlawed, but the laws in place make it a useless venture. Historically, it was used on exploration vessels and to help terraform and colonize planets.

Direct Cloning, where you are specifically cloned for medical reasons is frowned upon but it also is not outlawed. It is tolerated as long as it is done far from galactic core, and is a lucrative business. It is also an alternative to cybernetics, however there is a higher chance of your body rejecting the cloned parts over the cybernetics, but not everyone wants mechanical body parts so it remains a viable option.

The Clone Wars were just that. Big giant fucking wars fought on a galactic scale by clones. They came about from what would be the separatists groups, and initially The Trade Federation, ignoring the law and creating and using clones for labor, and to keep a lid on that, using them to expand their security and military forces. The other groups that would eventually form the SM got wind of what the TF was doing and wanted their own clones. They followed the same plan. Cheap and easily renewable labor source with a cheap and easily renewable military force to keep it a secret.

Obviously TRILLIONS of clones couldn't be kept a secret that long and when the Senate and Republic found out, they attempted to force them to halt the growing of anymore clones and enact legislation against the "Separatists" to free the clones they already had.

When that didn't work, the Republic attempted military force to persuade them. However they quickly found that they were outnumbered and outclassed as the clone's programing was far in advance of the training of the Republic's soldiers.

After several victories, the "Separatists" began to realize that they no longer needed nor wanted the Republic and seceded from it.
The Republic, in no shape to argue the point had to accept the move, but when the SM began annexing systems that did not want to secede, it forced the Republic into further action.

Having only one true recourse, The Republic commissioned it own clones. Their clones differed in the fact that they had absolute free will, where the SM clones did not. However, the Republic clones were required to serve in the military through out the duration of the conflict and were only otherwise released from conscription after sustaining two injuries.

Of course learning that the Republic was now growing it's own clones, the Separatists escalated their own growing programs. The Republic in order to survive had to match that and so on and so forth. An escalation war was on.

The clones were UNCOUNTABLE and an exact number was never known for either side. The wars themselves were horrific and devastated entire sectors of the galaxy.

The wars took place over about 75 years. After the first 40 or so years, the two sides reached an agreement to cease production of clones as both sides realized that the wars were getting out of control and they could at least agree that neither side, if victorious, would have anything left to control the way things were going. Hostilities continued though.

In the midst of all this were the Jedi and the Sith.
In this version, the Sith still orchestrated the war on both fronts, but in truly evil fashion, each Sith Lord had autonomous control over each group and were playing it out on both sides like a giant intergalactic chess match. Palpatine controlling the Republic and Maul controlling the Separatists. The Jedi fought on the side of the Republic and knew that the Sith were involved, but couldn't figure out quite how. That they were controlling both sides, like in the movies, eluded them. They knew the Sith had heavy influence, if not outright control, of the Separatists due to the fact that Maul confronted and killed many of them directly in open combat. They believed him however to be just an apprentice and not in the position he was.

Palpatine had risen to Chancellor just at the start of the Clone Wars, so his old decrepit look in TESB is just that. He would be about 150 years old in ROTJ. Maul began controlling the TF at about the age he was shown to be in TPM. He is eventually killed by Anakin in a most wanktastic fanboy wet dream battle.

The clones on both sides were implanted with absolute obedience to both Palpatine and Maul and when the time was right and when Palpatine had beaten Maul, and Palpatine established his new order, the clones on the Republic side filled out the officer corp of the new Empire, while the Separatists clones formed the Stormtrooper corp, as they were programed to be obedient.

[Kartr_Kana]

Well it's better, but it follows the PT too much IMO. I'm really a fan of multiple wars happening simultaneously. Hutt's fighting Hapans, Senex vs Juvex, Mid-rim vs Expansion Regions, rogue clones vs the galaxy, and the Republic trying to bring everyone back into the fold. This works better IMO then a 1v1 showdown, Palps controls or influences at least one side of every war. He can keep them fighting each other wearing everyone down while he guides the Republic. Bring groups about to be conquered back into the Republic which are diplomatic victories. Defeat stronger forces in the name of peace and order and slowly over 20-25 years rebuild the Republic declare the formation of the Empire at some point during the war and then mop up.

Most core planets like Alderaan or Kuat would stay loyal (Kuat's probably making a killing selling to everyone behind the scenes) to the Republic. Most of the Republics initial forces would come from the Republic Navy and the rest would be conscripts from loyal worlds. Towards the end of the war Palpantine would change the name of the "Republic Marines" into the Imperial Stormtrooper Corps. Then secretly fill it's ranks out with clones loyal to him and use them to swiftly crush the remaining opposition.

75 years of fighting is to long, and it starts way to early. Even starting around the time that TTT puts is still pushing the starting point to the edge of believability.

I do like the idea of Palpantine being aged because he's old rather then some crazy instant transformation. He's still going to be elderly by the time of RotJ and if the Dark Side corrupts his appearance slowly he'll still look old and wizened. That's actually better for his propaganda as he slowly ages and becomes a wise grandfatherly figure of an Emperor.

The fear of any sort of artificially born people after the wars would also explain why we don't see any of your "randomized clones" after wards. Personally though I think the reason we don't see cloning or test tube people before or after the clone wars is because it's more cost effective to make droids. Faster too and without as many possible complications.

[Havok]

I don't have much of a problem with the PT other than the time frame myself. I would like to have seen it start with Anakin and Obi-Wan older, which would explain Anakin and Obi-Wan being in their late 50's early 60's in ANH, and not have had Anakin be such a whiny brat, and be more like Dooku, where it was a pure lust for power that drove him towards the Dark Side.

As far as easier to make droids... I dunno. It seems like it would be easier to make basic food for clones than metal for droids.

The thing with your ideas compared to mine is that you are rewriting the canon using EU crap. I am trying to go just off what we see and know from the OT, and only using PT sources to fill out the details (Maul, TF, Seperatists) You guys are trying to work in the EU that you like. I pretty much hate the EU.

[Kartr_Kana]

I would like to have seen it start with Anakin and Obi-Wan older, which would explain Anakin and Obi-Wan being in their late 50's early 60's in ANH, and not have had Anakin be such a whiny brat, and be more like Dooku, where it was a pure lust for power that drove him towards the Dark Side

I agree completely! Anakin's fall was one of the most retarded things ever done in SW. And someone needs to kick that whiny brat in the teeth!

As far as easier to make droids... I dunno. It seems like it would be easier to make basic food for clones than metal for droids.

Hav, hav, hav... you can't be doing this man, you're misrepresenting, food for clones equates to oil or spare parts for droids. while metal for droids is more like sperms and eggs and test tubes for clones. Yes it might be easier if you're scouting or setting up a primitive colony to use organics that can eat native wildlife, but it also takes a year minimum, and ten or more for optimal preformance, to grow a clone. With the right plants you can turn out a droid in hours and they don't need to eat several times a day, they don't take shits, they don't get sick. All you have to do is plug them in a couple of times a week (or less) and give them an oil bath once a month...ish.

The thing with your ideas compared to mine is that you are rewriting the canon using EU crap. I am trying to go just off what we see and know from the OT, and only using PT sources to fill out the details (Maul, TF, Seperatists) You guys are trying to work in the EU that you like. I pretty much hate the EU.

Well I can't help it that other then minimalism Zahn's a good author. I know you probably don't think so since he doesn't comic books But still his works and the limited references to the clone wars are far better then the whiny brat shit that GL gave us. You need to learn how to selectively hate the EU.

[Havok]

As far as easier to make droids... I dunno. It seems like it would be easier to make basic food for clones than metal for droids.

Hav, hav, hav... you can't be doing this man, you're misrepresenting, food for clones equates to oil or spare parts for droids. while metal for droids is more like sperms and eggs and test tubes for clones. Yes it might be easier if you're scouting or setting up a primitive colony to use organics that can eat native wildlife, but it also takes a year minimum, and ten or more for optimal preformance, to grow a clone. With the right plants you can turn out a droid in hours and they don't need to eat several times a day, they don't take shits, they don't get sick. All you have to do is plug them in a couple of times a week (or less) and give them an oil bath once a month...ish.

Hmm.. Good points. That may actually be a interseting topic; Droids Vs Clones: Creation and Maintenance.

The thing with your ideas compared to mine is that you are rewriting the canon using EU crap. I am trying to go just off what we see and know from the OT, and only using PT sources to fill out the details (Maul, TF, Seperatists) You guys are trying to work in the EU that you like. I pretty much hate the EU.

Well I can't help it that other then minimalism Zahn's a good author. I know you probably don't think so since he doesn't comic books But still his works and the limited references to the clone wars are far better then the whiny brat shit that GL gave us. You need to learn how to selectively hate the EU.

Nonsense. I can hate it, all thank you very much.

And Lucas's Clone Wars are pretty good. I just would have, obviously, liked it to have been all clones. Otherwise, call it the Droid-Clone Wars. Just like we do with some of our wars Spanish-American Wars, Mexican-American, or call it the Galactic War. Or like a very old idea I had, have the Clone Wars refer to a section of the galaxy called Clone Space and not have clone mean what it means in English and it is just a name.

To clarify, while I do have much hate for the stories of the EU, what really gets me is how they handled the OT characters. Especially, once the PT came out. Why doesn't Luke make a B-Line to the Jedi Temple once Palpatine is dead. Why doesn't he continue to communicate with Obi-Wan and Yoda, who can now fill him in on all the little details they had to leave out in order to protect him. Or y'know, his fucking DAD. The five year search for his mom, when there are probably people that can tell him who she was. (Mon Mothma for example)
Why the fuck does Han have to court Leia anymore? It's a done fucking deal. Didn't those idiots see the movies? Things like that.
Of course I do also hate the minimalism, but that wasn't really the writers fault at first as they were just following what they see on screen. Now, however it is just inexcusable.

[Kartr_Kana]

The movies were pretty good, they just weren't the "Clone Wars".

Well quite a few of the best EU books were written before the PT, like Zahn's. Oh and in his books Obi-wan does come back and talk to him although it's a brief scene and apparently the Force won't allow him to do it any more or some such. As for Anakin he never had time to learn like Obi-wan and Yoda so maybe his brief appearance in RotJ was with their help. Yoda he...ah...um... you got me there buddy.

As for his mom that was written before the PT and to be fair she supposedly died before giving birth and after Alderaan was destroyed... Maybe no one was left who actually knew.

As for Han having to court Leia, well from my experiences with women they can be rather fickle.

And those are all reasons why the PT sucks, if GL had cared one iota about his franchise he would have either a)given the authors some back ground, like there used to be a jedi temple on coruscant, or Luke's mom was a planetary princess and it was an open secret that she was getting boned by the chosen one or maybe tell us about some of the ships/droids/factions that existed. Or b)He would have acquired a compendium of star wars and made sure that his PT didn't destroy the better parts. Actually he didn't even have to do that he could have made it fit with the OT in the first place!

TPM was just a ploy to get everyone who was too young for the original movies, or the remakes hooked on the franchise. That's why the main character is the same age as someone born in the early nineties. /paranoid_speculation

[Formless]

Nonsense. I can hate it, all thank you very much.

Be our guest, but I really don't see much issue with the way Zahn portrayed the universe, especially considering that his books were written before the PT came out. GL had the luxury of reading the stuff he licensed before writing his mediocre films, and he chose to outright ignore what was already established (while simultaneously using Zahns description of Coruscant almost full stop) even though it changed his story very little and was well written in its own right. It kinda feels arrogant to me, but what can you do? I mean, for one thing, his movies weren't completely bad, I just like what other writers put out better.

And Lucas's Clone Wars are pretty good. I just would have, obviously, liked it to have been all clones. Otherwise, call it the Droid-Clone Wars. Just like we do with some of our wars Spanish-American Wars, Mexican-American, or call it the Galactic War. Or like a very old idea I had, have the Clone Wars refer to a section of the galaxy called Clone Space and not have clone mean what it means in English and it is just a name.

And confuse the hell out of the audience? uh... good luck with that

To clarify, while I do have much hate for the stories of the EU, what really gets me is how they handled the OT characters. Especially, once the PT came out. Why doesn't Luke make a B-Line to the Jedi Temple once Palpatine is dead.

Because the place no longer exists? Because Coruscant was still under Imperial control immediately following the Emperors death, and Luke is a famous rebel leader? This is not so much of a problem, because Luke had a lot of things to do that took precedence over his Jedi training at the time. That the temple had almost assuredly been raised and built over by one of those nice big construction droids in an effort to suppress the old Jedi ways does not give much credence to your little complaint.

Why doesn't he continue to communicate with Obi-Wan and Yoda, who can now fill him in on all the little details they had to leave out in order to protect him. Or y'know, his fucking DAD.

Actually, several novels indicate that he does in fact keep in touch with them for this exact purpose, but there are a few things at work to limit their input:

1) as ghosts, they get to chose to talk to him or not. They are not always around to spout wisdom at their budding Jedi master. After all, in RoTJ, Luke didn't have to do a seance or meditate to get Obi-wan to come confirm that Leia was his sister, did he? No, the stubborn old spirit came into the scene unannounced of his own accord.

2) Obi-wan at one point fades away into the force, telling Luke that it was inevitable that he would have to let go sometime (I think it was at the begging of TTT?). There apparently is a limit to how long they can cheat death this way, and the farther into the future from the OT you get, the more likely that this is why Luke does not fall back on their advice.

3) more out of universe then anything else, the writers probably didn't want to rely too much on a plot device that was from its inception outright magic because they want to at least invent their own Deus Ex Machina and show some originality, if nothing else.

The five year search for his mom, when there are probably people that can tell him who she was. (Mon Mothma for example)

Because she was trying to keep her pregnancy secret, and gave birth in an ER in secret? Granted, SOMEONE probably knew, and it is a bit obtuse that he should have too much trouble considering all the effort taken to keep his families lives secret. I could go either way on this issue.

Why the fuck does Han have to court Leia anymore? It's a done fucking deal. Didn't those idiots see the movies?

Well, if he wants to keep the flame alive, I guess he has to do something... but yes, there are a LOT of characterizations that get used over and over that it seems like some characters don't grow at all over time. That is why I tend to avoid most of the EU. But not all of it.

Hell, I would take the Rouge Squadron books over KOTOR any day, if for no other reason than there are a lot of people who worship it like it was the greatest RPG since Gygax invented DnD itself. If they wanted to make a new, innovative sci-fi RPG, why couldn't they invent their own setting rather then shit on the canon of someone elses just because Star Wars pays good money? Then I might not have to hear from as many mando wankers as I do (though thanks to Karen Travis, it would still be non-zero).

*Formless is aware of the personal and rhetorical nature of these specific grievances, and freely admits that it is all just his personal opinion, effected no doubt from having played too many Final Fantasy games and DnD itself.*

[Kartr_Kana]

I don't think anyone praises KotOR because it's a great RPG. We like it because they do a good job with Star Wars and hasn't been ruined by the likes of KT or the Swarm Wars.

The Mandalorians aren't even really wanked, yes they're a threat to the Republic when they should really be too small for that. However they never really seem to threaten any worlds other then the Rim ones, so it can be easily explained by saying that the Republic pulled the bulk of their forces back to protect the Core worlds. As for them coming from outside of Republic space, well the Republic is still young and doesn't cover nearly as much territory as it does further down the road. Also the Mandalorians aren't some super noble farmer types who wear magical armor and can down take down jedi in 1v1 or 1v.many. They still have to use numbers, they're blood thirsty conquerors spoiling for a fight. They're nothing like KT's Mando'a.

[Havok]

Nonsense. I can hate it, all thank you very much.

Be our guest, but I really don't see much issue with the way Zahn portrayed the universe, especially considering that his books were written before the PT came out. GL had the luxury of reading the stuff he licensed before writing his mediocre films, and he chose to outright ignore what was already established (while simultaneously using Zahns description of Coruscant almost full stop) even though it changed his story very little and was well written in its own right. It kinda feels arrogant to me, but what can you do? I mean, for one thing, his movies weren't completely bad, I just like what other writers put out better.

OH NO! He used an idea that someone wrote about something HE MADE UP. What a jerk. And the fact that the books were written before the PT came out bugs me the most. The stories would not be the same if the PT were out before Zahn put pencil to paper. That is my point. The entire basis of the EU, the foundation if you will, is a story that was written before the source material existed. That is why I have, and will continue to advocate a complete reboot of the EU.

And Lucas's Clone Wars are pretty good. I just would have, obviously, liked it to have been all clones. Otherwise, call it the Droid-Clone Wars. Just like we do with some of our wars Spanish-American Wars, Mexican-American, or call it the Galactic War. Or like a very old idea I had, have the Clone Wars refer to a section of the galaxy called Clone Space and not have clone mean what it means in English and it is just a name.

And confuse the hell out of the audience? uh... good luck with that

Wow. I mean, just wow. This is astonishing. Of course that explains why people can't tell each other apart in war. If... If only they wore clothes, or insignia that would allow them to tell each other apart, then our soldiers wouldn't shoot at their own men all the time. Oh... wait.

Or/and...

You mean a word... a NAME can mean two different things?! NO WAY! OMG! How would anyone ever figure that out?

To clarify, while I do have much hate for the stories of the EU, what really gets me is how they handled the OT characters. Especially, once the PT came out. Why doesn't Luke make a B-Line to the Jedi Temple once Palpatine is dead.

Because the place no longer exists? Because Coruscant was still under Imperial control immediately following the Emperors death, and Luke is a famous rebel leader? This is not so much of a problem, because Luke had a lot of things to do that took precedence over his Jedi training at the time. That the temple had almost assuredly been raised and built over by one of those nice big construction droids in an effort to suppress the old Jedi ways does not give much credence to your little complaint.

Yes it does dumbshit. Go watch the end of the newest version of ROTJ. It is specifically shown to still be standing. And again, that is all EU story telling that establishes all that you have said. R E B O O T. And what exactly did Luke have to do that took precedent over his Jedi training? The thing that Yoda left solely in his hands and told him to pass on what he had learned? What exactly was more important to Luke than restarting the Jedi Order?
And please provide proof of you little assumption, or please shut the fuck up.

Why doesn't he continue to communicate with Obi-Wan and Yoda, who can now fill him in on all the little details they had to leave out in order to protect him. Or y'know, his fucking DAD.

Actually, several novels indicate that he does in fact keep in touch with them for this exact purpose, but there are a few things at work to limit their input:

1) as ghosts, they get to chose to talk to him or not. They are not always around to spout wisdom at their budding Jedi master. After all, in RoTJ, Luke didn't have to do a seance or meditate to get Obi-wan to come confirm that Leia was his sister, did he? No, the stubborn old spirit came into the scene unannounced of his own accord.

2) Obi-wan at one point fades away into the force, telling Luke that it was inevitable that he would have to let go sometime (I think it was at the begging of TTT?). There apparently is a limit to how long they can cheat death this way, and the farther into the future from the OT you get, the more likely that this is why Luke does not fall back on their advice.

3) more out of universe then anything else, the writers probably didn't want to rely too much on a plot device that was from its inception outright magic because they want to at least invent their own Deus Ex Machina and show some originality, if nothing else.

Seriously, Formless. We are in a thread about a REBOOT, and I have specifically said, I would reboot solely based on what we know from the OT, and using the PT to fill out the details and you keep throwing EU garbage my way. What exactly are you trying to accomplish?

The five year search for his mom, when there are probably people that can tell him who she was. (Mon Mothma for example)

Because she was trying to keep her pregnancy secret, and gave birth in an ER in secret? Granted, SOMEONE probably knew, and it is a bit obtuse that he should have too much trouble considering all the effort taken to keep his families lives secret. I could go either way on this issue.

Look, her pregnancy wasn't secret to anyone that had fucking eyeballs. What was secret was who the father was, and even that would have been pretty fucking easy to figure out. And Obi-Wan knew, as well as Yoda and they were both fully capable of communicating with Luke. Once Palpatine was dead... Oh fucking hell... do I really need to spell it out again.

Why the fuck does Han have to court Leia anymore? It's a done fucking deal. Didn't those idiots see the movies?

Well, if he wants to keep the flame alive, I guess he has to do something... but yes, there are a LOT of characterizations that get used over and over that it seems like some characters don't grow at all over time. That is why I tend to avoid most of the EU. But not all of it.

What a crock of bull fucking shit. She was IN LOVE WITH HAN. There was no wishy washy maybe about it you fucking ignoramus. She risked her life to save his, TWICE. This wasn't something she was going to all of a sudden forget because some handsome prince got all charming with her.

Hell, I would take the Rouge Squadron books over KOTOR any day, if for no other reason than there are a lot of people who worship it like it was the greatest RPG since Gygax invented DnD itself. If they wanted to make a new, innovative sci-fi RPG, why couldn't they invent their own setting rather then shit on the canon of someone elses just because Star Wars pays good money? Then I might not have to hear from as many mando wankers as I do (though thanks to Karen Travis, it would still be non-zero).

*Formless is aware of the personal and rhetorical nature of these specific grievances, and freely admits that it is all just his personal opinion, effected no doubt from having played too many Final Fantasy games and DnD itself.*

Are you just mindlessly rambling now?

[Illuminatus Primus]

The Clone Wars fixation is a total distraction from what the new PT would actually be. That's the great fallacy of most "what could have been" ponderers - they follow Lucas' journey into a confused premise. I have to give credit where it is due (Galvatron) but the real genius of the OT is it is narrow focus. It doesn't tell the story of the Civil Wars. It doesn't tell the story of even the Jedi and the Sith, or even of Palpatine or Vader (though the latter's end). It just shows the rise from mere boy to Jedi Knight and hero of Luke Skywalker. The PT should focus on the fall of Anakin Skywalker. I'd start it with him as a grown man and a hero in his own right already, ignore the political machinations and wars except where it matters for his story, and worry about that. I'd probably have the Clone Wars already over, the Republic all but dead and the Empire all but born, with just Anakin to fall.

[Formless]

OH NO! He used an idea that someone wrote about something HE MADE UP. What a jerk. And the fact that the books were written before the PT came out bugs me the most. The stories would not be the same if the PT were out before Zahn put pencil to paper. That is my point. The entire basis of the EU, the foundation if you will, is a story that was written before the source material existed. That is why I have, and will continue to advocate a complete reboot of the EU.

If the PT were better, I wouldn't care so much, but as it is... well, I don't worship GL. So sue me.

Wow. I mean, just wow. This is astonishing. Of course that explains why people can't tell each other apart in war. If... If only they wore clothes, or insignia that would allow them to tell each other apart, then our soldiers wouldn't shoot at their own men all the time. Oh... wait.

I meant the AUDIENCE dumbshit.

Or/and...

You mean a word... a NAME can mean two different things?! NO WAY! OMG! How would anyone ever figure that out?

It can, but why would you want to confuse the audience? For most people, until they read the part where you say that the place is named Clone sector, they are more likely to assume you mean the war involved the first meaning of the word, CLONES. Why do something that will confuse people? Just answer that question, that's all I ask.

Yes it does dumbshit. Go watch the end of the newest version of ROTJ. It is specifically shown to still be standing. And again, that is all EU story telling that establishes all that you have said. R E B O O T. And what exactly did Luke have to do that took precedent over his Jedi training? The thing that Yoda left solely in his hands and told him to pass on what he had learned? What exactly was more important to Luke than restarting the Jedi Order?
And please provide proof of you little assumption, or please shut the fuck up.

Damn, they keep coming out with a new version... I was unaware of that. WHAT WAS GL THINKING??! Seriously, if Palpatine wanted to get rid of the Jedi, why would he leave the Temple, the biggest monument to everything they stood for, standing? That's no way to purge the culture!

I'm sorry, I was assuming basic competence on the part of Palps. Seemed reasonable enough to me, considering the character. History is full of examples of people who went out to destroy a part of someone elses culture who were smart enough to actually destroy vital things like that (books, cultural traditions, religious/historical monuments, etc.), and I assumed Palpatine was no different.

My Star Wars fu is weaker then I thought.

Seriously, Formless. We are in a thread about a REBOOT, and I have specifically said, I would reboot solely based on what we know from the OT, and using the PT to fill out the details and you keep throwing EU garbage my way. What exactly are you trying to accomplish?

I was only explaining to you why your complaints were unfounded in the canon as it stands right now. Can't you read? For that matter, why shout at me when Kartr_Kana said the exact same thing? 'Cause I'm the newbe here? 'Cause you don't like me? Why go to the effort to berate me for this when my intentions are a bright as day? Because you like getting angry with little to no provocation? Good grief, you weren't talking about how you would change things, you were talking about what you don't like in the Canon as it stands now. I was telling you why your complaints were bunk as Canon stands right now. Go take a chill pill, Hulk.

Look, her pregnancy wasn't secret to anyone that had fucking eyeballs. What was secret was who the father was, and even that would have been pretty fucking easy to figure out. And Obi-Wan knew, as well as Yoda and they were both fully capable of communicating with Luke. Once Palpatine was dead... Oh fucking hell... do I really need to spell it out again.

You have a point about Yoda and Obi-wan, but the actual birth, where the identities of the newborns was revealed, was done with no one else around that otherwise could have identified Lukes mother in the OT. We have senator Organa, but he died off screen in the biggest boom of the movies with Alderan. The only people that leaves were the people running that hospital in an asteroid, and its a big Galaxy, there is no guarantee that Luke is going to find that place in a convenient time frame while adventuring most of his life.

And heck, for all we know Yoda and the others might have had reasons to keep their traps shut. I can't guess what they might be, so I will conceded that point.

What a crock of bull fucking shit. She was IN LOVE WITH HAN. There was no wishy washy maybe about it you fucking ignoramus. She risked her life to save his, TWICE. This wasn't something she was going to all of a sudden forget because some handsome prince got all charming with her.

Look, I'm not arguing that they weren't in love, I'm just saying that they might have done all that romantic bullshit for fun as part of being in love, dipshit. And I admit, many authors in the EU take it too far to the point of repetitiveness. I'm not saying that the EU is great, just that it is not all as bad as you make it out to be.

Are you just mindlessly rambling now?

Yes. You would have to meet my RL friends to understand, they're really horrible on the mando wank, only they like to wank off to the mandolorians from the KOTOR era rather then any bullshit by Traviss. Plus they are dumbshits that actually couldn't tell that just because the mechanics of the game were based off DnD that meant that they could freely bring in their wank weapons and armor from that game into a session... even though the rules were completely different.

Yeah, its a personal thing more then anything else. Just forget about it.