Mandos Vs Spartans

[DrMckay]

I'm not sure whether or not this question was raised in the past, apologies if it already has been.

Both the mandalorians of Star Wars and the USNC Spartans of HALO have been obscenely wanked out.

The Spartans have undergone rigorous training since childhood, have power armor with regenerating energy shields, and are determined soldiers accustomed to fighting as a team for the good of the team, etc.

Mandos, (Don't know much about them, if someone wants to correct me, go ahead)

are warriors and mercenaries with some sort of famed armor, which (if Boba Fett is any indication, has some pretty nasty tricks,) they have a rigid whacky honor code.

I'm wondering who would win in these scenarois: (Assume equal hand weapons....say...Blas-Tec E-11's)

a fight between 20 Mandos and 20 Spartans

5 V 5

Boba Fett vs Master Chief


Well? Which one of those whacky, wanked-out warrior wannabes wins?

(Man, I love alliteration)

[Ender]

I vote Spartans for no other reason then I hate Mandos.

Though Mandos were willing to blow up 3 neutronium based power plants and kill 3.5 billion civilians in the process just to get paid not to do it. I don't think Spartans can match them for sheer blood thirstiness.

[DrMckay]

I'd have to go with spartans as well, not based on bloodthirstiness, but because they are all to aware of their own potential failings, and the cost of failure, and work to overcome their weaknesses or any bad planning. (Especially after the USNC started losing a war with the Covenant.) The Spartans usually fight withdrawal actions against overwhelming odds, wheras

Mandos (I haven't read Traviss' work, thanks largely to this site-are there any redeeming bits in her writing at all?)...seem to be ingrained with a sense of their own innate superiority, and buy into their own myth.) such overconfidence and underestimation of any enemies is not healthy in a fight.

[Venator]

The one problem the Spartans would have is the Mandalorian's amour; if they go to war wearing body in the same durability ballpark to Stormtrooper carapace, they could absorb most of the Spartan's small arms without much trouble.

With that said, of course, the Spartans do have access to a good quantity of heavier weapons, and potentially Covenant "plasma" guns... plus sidearms which fire .50 HEAP rounds.

[MJ12 Commando]

For the one on one fight why didn't you have someone like... I dunno, Canderous?

Because Canderous is actually (unlike Boba Fett) hardcore.

[DrMckay]

who is Canderous?

[Tanasinn]

Canderous Ordo was a Mando from KotOR. He ends up being Mandalore the Preserver. That, at least, indicates he's more skilled than your average dipshit Mando grunt.

[Feil]

Why would the Spartan armor and shields offer significant protection against Star Wars weaponry, just because it does so against handguns and assault rifles not much different from today's, and comparable alien weaponry? The weapons that one- or two-shot-kill Spartans in the game all fall within the range of what a blaster rifle is capable of doing.

[Vendetta]

The one problem the Spartans would have is the Mandalorian's amour; if they go to war wearing body in the same durability ballpark to Stormtrooper carapace, they could absorb most of the Spartan's small arms without much trouble.

With that said, of course, the Spartans do have access to a good quantity of heavier weapons, and potentially Covenant "plasma" guns... plus sidearms which fire .50 HEAP rounds.

The scenario specifies both sides have E-11 blasters. Neither side has a firepower advantage.

Why would the Spartan armor and shields offer significant protection against Star Wars weaponry, just because it does so against handguns and assault rifles not much different from today's, and comparable alien weaponry? The weapons that one- or two-shot-kill Spartans in the game all fall within the range of what a blaster rifle is capable of doing.

I doubt it would, but then I don't remember Mandalorian armour ever being presented as an unstoppable blaster defying juggernaut of awesomeness either, and both sides have the same guns as per the scenario.

[Lord Revan]

granted I've tried to stay clear traviss' mandowank, even Mandalorian iron mando armor is just resistant to SW weaponary not immune to their effects.

and btw aren't spartan actually superhuman even without their armor (kind of SM-lite), while mandolorians are in the end just merely human (well trained and physically fit humans but still just humans), while this won't make that much difference on distance (a hit will kill either), this would give an edge on melee range (should the fight ever get that close) and IIRC the Fett clan's armors were actually modified and not base line mando trooper armor.

[tezunegari]

The SPARTAN-II candidates were chosen because of their genetic disposition. Apparently the USNC had a way to discern people who would make exemplary officers if train as such.
In "Fall of Reach" it was stated that the Master Chief, or John-117, was the most average of them only having incredible amounts of luck.
SPARTANs received several augmentations via surgery at the age of 14.
Most of those augmentations had rather high failure rates which led to 30 dead and 12 crippled Spartans out of 75 children.

These augmentations were: (source: Halo - The Fall of Reach, p 57/58)

• Carbide ceramic ossification: Advanced material: special metal and ceramic layers, grafting onto skeletal structure to make bones virtually unbreakable. Recommended coverage not to exceed 3 percent total bone mass because of significant white blood cell necrosis. Specific risk for pre- and near-post pubescent adolescents: skeletal growth spurts may cause irreparable bone pulverization.
• Muscular enhancement injections: Protein complex is injected intramuscular, to increase tissue density and decrease lactate recovery time. Risk: 5 percent of test subjects experience a fatal cardiac volume increase.
• Catalytic thyroid implant: Platinum pellet containing human growth hormone catalyst is implanted in the thyroid to boost growth of skeletal and muscle tissues. Risk: rare instances of elephantiasis. Suppressed sexual drive.
• Occipital capillary reversal: Submergence and boosted blood vessel flow beneath the rods and cones of subject’s retina. Produces a marked visual perception increase. Risk: retinal rejection and detachment. Permanent blindness.
• Superconducting fabrication of neural dendrites: Alteration of bio-electrical nerve transduction to shielded electronic transduction. Three hundred percent increase in subject’s reflexes. Anecdotal evidence of marked increase in intelligence, memory, and creativity. Risk: significant instances of Parkinson’s disease and Fletcher’s syndrome.

The results of the augmentation and the MJOLNIR suit: (from a list http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/SPARTAN-II_A ... es#Results)

• Capable of running at speeds exceeding 55 KPH (34.155 MPH). Kelly-087 was capable of running even faster than the rest. Later on, John-117 runs at around 105 KPH (65.205 MPH) during a MJOLNIR MARK V training exercise.
• Capable of lifting three times their body weight due to increased muscle density.
• Virtual night vision.
• Reaction times of 20 milliseconds. Significantly faster in combat situations.
• Capable of unprecedented teamwork that resembled "telepathy".
• No physiological or mental instabilities.
• Unusual regenerative abilities; in Halo 3 Master Chief went from an unconscious and considerably injured man having taken a fall from the sky to quickly moving in and sticking a pistol to the Arbiter's head. Although the MJOLNIR Armor's biofoam may have played a role, as biofoam is supposed to hold wounds together, something that wouldn't exactly be helpful for an impact injury. Therefore, the Spartans probably exhibit some form of natural regenerative ability similar to those of animals such as salamanders.

[Sarevok]

Ok so spartan dudes can run nearly as fast as a garbage truck and are slightly more bullet resistant than a toyota corolla. Without character shields they are less dangerous than than a high end battledroid. Mandos are not any better either but being mercs in SW galaxy they must regularly go up against aliens, droids, cyborgs etc that are way more dangerous than them. I am not saying the Mandolorians will win but with the wank removed from both sides this battle could go either way. It's a coin toss really.

[MJ12 Commando]

The OP states both sides have equal hand weapons.

Admittedly the Spartans aren't trained in using blasters but they have recognizable triggers and safeties IIRC, so they shouldn't find it too difficult to use them, while their natural speed and reaction time is going to be an advantage. I'd say they have the edge here, not terribly much of one but it's there.

[Connor MacLeod]

WRT the firepower issue. as I recall mandalorian armor is partly shielded (or it has some sort of energy enhancement to its hardshell components) but its got substantially less coverage than stormtrooper armor fabric underneath) - at least of the Boba and Jango fett varieties. Given their need to jetpack around they probably can't have their armor all that heavy. Even with Halo-grade stuff (I'd say that at best their plasma weapons get into double digit KJ for most settings and maybe single digit MJ for "max power" settings - although that would basically drain the power pack fast - you'd probably have to go with the high end FRGs to give them higher end firepower or MAYBE the Spartan laser) they could still kill Mandos by aiming at the unarmored segments.

As far as Halo durability goes, comparing their shields to projectile weapons is pretty pointless (since projectiles will have KE and momentum to handle, and there are various ways to deal with projectiles) We'd have to know how many shots they could take from Halo energy weapons to be able to do a benchmark. (I vaguely recall they can't take a direct FRG hit, or be in the blast radius of a plasma grenade, so that definitely suggests less than GJ range durability.)

With E-11s durability is probably a complete non-issue for either side, since they can just ramp the guns up to their highest settings. In which case speed and accuracy matter more (which should go in favor of the Spartans.) unless the Mandos can ambush them (debatable, since as I recall Spartan armor has intenral sensor/comm equipment the same way the Mandalorian's stuff would.) THey're greater toughness and regenerative abilities MIGHT also be an advantage, although I expect if the settings are maxed out that may be a non-factor.

As for Fett, which version of Fett are we going for? I'd definitely say the Traviss version of Fett differs from other iterations (say, KW Jeter's who was a hardcore but amoral bastard rather than the way Traviss presented him.)

[DrMckay]

Not having read any Travis, and rather preferring the old EU to the new crap being peddled these days, I'd say it's movie and K.W. Jeter Fett. Former Journeman Protectot Jaster Mreel from Concord Dawn. (I liked him better before the whole "he's a clone" thing. I feel it stole individuality from a cool character.)

Amoral, pragmatic, very intelligent bastard, with his own (twisted) code of honor.

How does Travis-Fett differ?

[Ford Prefect]

I vaguely recall they can't take a direct FRG hit

A Spartan does get hit by a Hunter's fuel rod gun and gets vapourised, along with a significant portion of the gorund he's standing on, but that was before the armour had shields. The Master Chief survives getting hit by blocking it with a stolen Jackal shield, which destroys the device and throws the Chief through a couple of walls, but he is still intact. Regardless, it's probably safe to assume that a Hunter fuel rod plus a shielded Spartan would still result in a smear on the ground.

[Kartr_Kana]

Voted "too much wank" because of KT's Mando'a and the Boba clone thing.

Personally I think it would be fairly even without the wanking. Spartans seem to be remarkable fast which should be offset by jetpack Mandalorians(not Mando'a). I don't know how their armor compares, but since one has power armor/shields that should offer good protection despite not being designed with blasters and the other has armor designed to defend against blasters I think it should be reasonable equal. Neither side uses E-11's normally, but the Mandalorians should have a slight edge since they're used to the technology. Mandalorians also have whatever weapons they've fitted to their armor which I don't think is normally as much as the Fett's, but still should include the jetpack rocket and possibly wrist rockets or flamers.

20v20 toss up better coordination by the Spartans vs Air Mobility by the Mandalorians
5v5 Mandalorians because of air mobility and rocket jetpack
KT Boba Fett vs Master Chief: MC because Boba is an old man who shoulda died years or decades ago
Jaster Mereel aka Boba Fett vs Master Chief: Boba Fett because of his arsenal

No matter how you slice it there's still way too much wank.

How does Travis-Fett differ?

A conceited old bastard who talks too much and seems to feel that he made the biggest mistake of his life when he didn't stay on "Mandalore" and be a good father to his daughter. At least that's what I got from Blood Lines which is the only LotF book and only KT book with Boba that I've read.

[Sarevok]

As far as Halo durability goes, comparing their shields to projectile weapons is pretty pointless (since projectiles will have KE and momentum to handle, and there are various ways to deal with projectiles) We'd have to know how many shots they could take from Halo energy weapons to be able to do a benchmark. (I vaguely recall they can't take a direct FRG hit, or be in the blast radius of a plasma grenade, so that definitely suggests less than GJ range durability.)

Halo Combat evolved manual mentions the Ghosts plasma guns run at 100-250 KW range. At canon difficulty settings they can toast a Spartan in seconds shields notwithstanding.

EDIT : The manual also includes figures for normal handheld plasma weaponry. The plasma rifle is rated at 100-150 Kv at 2-3 dA. The plasma pistols overcharge can destroy the strongest personal shielding like that used on SpecOps Elite and Commander Elite armors. It is rated at 1.5 Mv at 2-3 dA.

I hope you can apply your analysis here to come up with something.

[Shroom Man 777]

The Spartans are much faster than normal human beings. That's a big determining factor in the battlefield, so even if the Mandalorians can ambush them, the Sparts can adapt to the changing situation and react faster than the Mandalorians would expect them to. Their faster speed, not just physical speed but mental reaction times and reflexes, means that they can shape the battle to how they see fit. Even if the Mandos have the first strike, unless the Spartans are decimated, the Mandos will quickly find themselves losing the initiative and soon they will be the ones reacting to the Spartans' assault - and since they're mere mortal men, their reactions will be inadequately slow.

If we had Jango and Master Chief FIGHT on that Kamino launch pad arena, Master Chief's fist would've broken Jango's face before he could've pulled that blaster and fired off a shot.

Then he would've fallen off that platform and an underwater Saarlac would've eateds him.

[Stark]

Oh man that Wiki list of nonsense is hilarious. Combat reflexes 20ms... somehow, that does something! He can 'regenerate' because he went from locked-armour and having a concussion to... standing up! No 'mental instabilities' even though MC is a revenge-driven maniac with PTSD visions!

Oh man I love Halo fanboys.

And Shroom, what a load of horseshit. 'He can shape the battle as he sees fit'? Dear lord. He can RUN FAST. Mandos have JETPACKS.

[Serafina]

Well, Spartans are stronger and have better reactions - but Mandalorians have the better technology.

Just look at the power of blasters, add the jetpacks and the sophisticated armor, and Mandalorians are at least even.
Oh, and Jango had some nice rockets and a flamethrower, too.

If we go up a few levels and add heavy weapons and increase the amount of combatants, the scalte tips in favor of Mandalorians - no matter how fast/strong you are, its not of much use if the area gets saturated with heavy weapons fire.Well, Spartans are stronger and have better reactions - but Mandalorians have the better technology.

Of course, if you are removing the technological advantage, and numbers do not count, then Spartans are going to win.

But then, i have to vote too...much...wank

[Ford Prefect]

The total misuse of the word 'wank' in this thread is saddening.

sophisticated armor

What, exactly, is 'sophisticated' about Mandalorian armour? It's a bunch of tough armour plates strapped over some sort of undersuit with an electronic helmet (which no one has specified the capabilities of). I'm not even sure it's specified as being vacuum sealed. Since Traviss has gotten her hands on it, it's become lightsaber proof, but in terms of coverage, Storm Trooper armour it is not.

[frogcurry]

The Mandolorians in KOTOR games don't have jet packs, only the Fett does. However they would be trained and used to fighting as soldiers in a squad against equally well equiped enemies, whereas the Spartans were probably trained for quite different scenarios (being intended as a commando force for eliminating the governments enemies in the colonies). So the Mandos have it for that reason imo.

[Hawkwings]

As I recall, the Spartans seem to have spent most of their operational years fighting better-equipped soldiers and doing quite well.

[Stark]

'Better equipped' is relative; the Elites don't have much going for them besides size and shields. Spartans should (but obviously don't in the game) have all kinds of vision enhancements and other tomfoolery built into their armour. Grunts aren't better equipped than my mum.