World of Warcraft: Wrath of the Lich King

[Ghost Rider]

3 Drake Sarth...25 man is not bad. Yes, you have to be on the ball, and what not. But it is meant to be the current premier challenge, and to be honest it did push all of us.

10 man 3 drake is fucking near impossible. Maybe when we have a Tier 8 25 man gear.

[Kuja]

I have to admit, havung pugged Sarth a few times...it never fails to make me laugh watching some new guy get slapped by a magma wave and thrown across the island. It's like a new rite of passage, right up there with Malchezzar's shadow nova and "if you look through there you can see Rag."

[Ghost Rider]

I have to admit, havung pugged Sarth a few times...it never fails to make me laugh watching some new guy get slapped by a magma wave and thrown across the island. It's like a new rite of passage, right up there with Malchezzar's shadow nova and "if you look through there you can see Rag."

That's my newest fave, just because the inevitable vent for the newbies :

"Now, move between the waves"

"Whu-huh?"

"You'll know it. 40 fucking foot high death coming towards you. And by the way, the elementals get large and mean...so be ready!"

[Maxentius]

The closest I've come to a three-drake pull was a pst sent by a friend of mine in the premier raiding guild on the sever in which every other word was 'motherfucking'. I felt bad, but I couldn't help a laugh, the nerdrage was so pure.

Sounds like something I might have sent.

Do you play on Moon Guard by any chance?

[Dorsk 81]

3 Drake Sarth...25 man is not bad. Yes, you have to be on the ball, and what not. But it is meant to be the current premier challenge, and to be honest it did push all of us.

To be honest I don't think it really pushes anyone when you get the right tactic and people who don't do stupid shit like getting hit by the tsunami or red shit, it's just people get used to welfare epic fights everywhere. First three drake kill we did back before the holidays we zerged the first drake and let the eggs hatch, then took portals on the other two. That can get a bit taxing if you get two adds up at once, it's a lot easier just to zerg the first two drakes and then take the portals on the third which is what we've been doing now, it's piss easy then.

Can't comment on the normal three drake version, not tried it yet.

[Minischoles]

A tangent, but has anyone else in this thread experienced the living hell that is Sartharion with Three Drakes yet?

I feel like my guild is very, very close to a kill on this, but the margin of error permitted in this fight is so slim as to be practically non-existent. Our main issue has generally been keeping Sartharion's tank alive when Shadron lands, as that 100% fire damage debuff has given us some spectacular instagibs. I'm talking 40, 50,000 damage here, to a target that hasn't got that much health normally, the least to say with Sartharion's 25% overall reduction active. Granted, we used a warrior when we might have been better suited using a Death Knight or Bear, but hopefully that will be seen to when we try again this week.

That fire breath spike, though, is really nasty. I respec'd from HolyRet to HolyProt just to pick up Divine Guardian to help mitigating some of those insane numbers, and it's been a big help. We did try it once with a DK tank, and the survivability increase over the warrior was very noticeable, imo, but we still couldn't complete the encounter. It seems like even one loose add, or one dead DPS, can break any attempt.

We've done two drakes, and that was hard until I started replacing people who couldn't avoid lava waves, my words were very similar to what Ghost Rider said, and i just kicked them out of the raid. We've tried 3 drakes but the only possible way I can see it being done is with your best raid group being completely on the ball, and having a druid MT with 50k HP.

A tip for the tank trying to survive the flame breaths, with both debuffs up Sarth becomes immune to damage, so theres no point in attacking anymore except for rage. But this is where some split second tank timing is needed, because every yellow attack removes one debuff thats giving 75% increased fire damage. So as the flame breath is about to come, he needs to use a yellow attack, and he just gets hit for about 25k, plus the 4-6k from having the debuff removed. Much easier to deal with than a 40-50k flame breath.

But if you can get past the second drake with about 20 people alive, you've got a kill (from all the other raid leaders i've talked to on the server who've done it).

I'm trying to get the guild to do it more, since for a lot of our members already our only upgrades are going to be coming from Sarth with more drakes up, or Malygos.

And Malygos is a colossal cockblock. I honestly do not see how you are going to be able to keep doing it with COH on a 6 second CD, considering you've got 25 members taking 2k damage per second, in a time when no casts can be got off. Almost inevitably means you're going to lose 1 or 2 clothies per vortex.

[Ghost Rider]

3 Drake Sarth...25 man is not bad. Yes, you have to be on the ball, and what not. But it is meant to be the current premier challenge, and to be honest it did push all of us.

To be honest I don't think it really pushes anyone when you get the right tactic and people who don't do stupid shit like getting hit by the tsunami or red shit, it's just people get used to welfare epic fights everywhere. First three drake kill we did back before the holidays we zerged the first drake and let the eggs hatch, then took portals on the other two. That can get a bit taxing if you get two adds up at once, it's a lot easier just to zerg the first two drakes and then take the portals on the third which is what we've been doing now, it's piss easy then.

Can't comment on the normal three drake version, not tried it yet.

LOL, currently we do that. But at the start it took a little bit of thinking and such not.

Normal? I have no clue. Your DPS is not high enough to zerg and survive, and healing gets a new level of insanity, let alone tanking....ugh, the pain.

I swear if I get the Black Drake before the next 25 man dungeon, I'll be amazed.

[Minischoles]

3 Drake Sarth...25 man is not bad. Yes, you have to be on the ball, and what not. But it is meant to be the current premier challenge, and to be honest it did push all of us.

To be honest I don't think it really pushes anyone when you get the right tactic and people who don't do stupid shit like getting hit by the tsunami or red shit, it's just people get used to welfare epic fights everywhere. First three drake kill we did back before the holidays we zerged the first drake and let the eggs hatch, then took portals on the other two. That can get a bit taxing if you get two adds up at once, it's a lot easier just to zerg the first two drakes and then take the portals on the third which is what we've been doing now, it's piss easy then.

Can't comment on the normal three drake version, not tried it yet.

LOL, currently we do that. But at the start it took a little bit of thinking and such not.

Normal? I have no clue. Your DPS is not high enough to zerg and survive, and healing gets a new level of insanity, let alone tanking....ugh, the pain.

I swear if I get the Black Drake before the next 25 man dungeon, I'll be amazed.

Normal i'm not even sure you can do that with 3 drakes. The need for a certain number of tanks and healers lowers your DPS to a point where I just can't see it being done. 1 drake normal is hard enough, let alone 2 or 3.

[Dorsk 81]

LOL, currently we do that. But at the start it took a little bit of thinking and such not.

Normal? I have no clue. Your DPS is not high enough to zerg and survive, and healing gets a new level of insanity, let alone tanking....ugh, the pain.

I swear if I get the Black Drake before the next 25 man dungeon, I'll be amazed.

I very much doubt it, I saw a post about someone doing it the other day on WoR and you still need the Sath tank, Drake tank and add tank. Can't remember the exact setup, but they had one of each spec of Shammie, although I can't see that being a big help unless the fight lasts a lot longer in 10man, according to WWS our last heroic three drake kill didn't even last 5 minutes.

Personally I think the Black drake mount is ugly, the Twilight one is pretty nice, as is the Azure one which we had our first of off Malygos on Monday.

[Maxentius]

And Malygos is a colossal cockblock. I honestly do not see how you are going to be able to keep doing it with COH on a 6 second CD, considering you've got 25 members taking 2k damage per second, in a time when no casts can be got off. Almost inevitably means you're going to lose 1 or 2 clothies per vortex.

We never had many issues with Malygos. In fact, I think we killed him on our second night of attempts for the realm first kill (I was on standby at the time; alas, no Magic Seeker for me). Anyway, the vortex, while it may seem daunting, is really not all that bad once you reach a certain level of gear. The first thing that obviously needs to be done is that everyone needs to be topped off before the vortex hits. Another thing to remember is that instant-casts can be used during the vortex, provided the target is in range. So Paladins can Holy Shock, for example. Once your healers start getting the rhythm of throwing off a heal or two in the air, things will get a bit better.

Second, everyone needs to immediately clear the landing area, because once Malygos comes down he'll breath, and that will one-shot most non-tanks. We solve this by having everyone run immediately north upon touch down, while the tank moves south to clear a gap.

Maybe it's just our level of gear, but aside from our very first few attempts, I never noticed any major issues springing from the vortex. Sure, it was annoying, but I'm actually learning to anticipate rather than dread it, because it gives me a brief breather and time to recuperate, whether it be nailing myself or the MT with a Divine Favor'd Holy Shock or blowing Divine Plea when the healing reduction won't make much difference. Most of your healers should be near, or above 20,000 hit points as well, considering raid buffs. It's possible you just may need a higher median level of gear to get through phase one.

Malygos is an ass, make no mistake, and the encounter is a nasty little bitch, but it's actually very formulaic and very predictable once you master it. So keep at it; you'll get the big blue fucker eventually.

[Rahvin]

Made my first entry into Naxx this past weekend in a PUG (unfortunately my guild is extremely casual and very few of us are ready to even think of attempting Naxx - my gf and I are even considering leaving the guild due to the slow progression, but that's another story). We did pretty well, and downed 2 bosses before Comcast sabotaged me and cut off my cable for long enough for the group to replace us (apparently a repair tech was doing some work on a box outside and had to cut the line for 10-20 minutes or so).

I'm also running Heroics multiple times nightly. My gf's 'lock (0/41/30 Firelock with a Felguard) does more than adequate damage, and we have an unemployed Feral Druid in the guild who's perpetually bored, which has made him not only eager to do any Heroic we want to run, but also has allowed him to build up a DPS set phenomenal enough for us to 4-man most Heroics.

I'm rapidly approaching the 20000-mana mark, but I find my crit and haste to be significantly lacking. Such is the case with blues - for all the runs, I haven't gotten much to drop for me. I have, however, gotten a couple of tasty Emblem rewards.

Since we have at least one other Healadin posting in this thread, do you have any recommendations for Naxx-entry gear? I'm currently running with about 29% crit on Holy Light/Shock, about 11.6% haste, and 18,000 mana (with Kings self-buffed, because I'm also the only one in the guild who likes to play Ret, and the Tankadin uses Sanctuary). While I found healing in Naxx 10-man to be not so bad for those couple of bosses, I'm certainly not anywhere near what I'm reading about on Elitist Jerks (granted, I should have 3% more crit with Sanctified Seals, but I needed Kings, so that was out). I have the Libram that reduces the cost of Holy Light, as well as the Glyph of Seal of Wisdom for additional mana efficiency, but my crit rate and mana pool are simply inadequate to sustain long periods of Holy Light spam. Fights have been short enough so far that I've been able to manage, and some of the longer fights are even easy enough that I've been able to take a few melee swings at the mobs for Seal of Wisdom returns (and holy crap is that amazing when you get the chance), but I'm still concerned about running OOM. Should I continue to look for INT above all else as EJ recommends, or should I try to stack crit until I can get HL up to roughly a 35% crit rate? I'd love to stack Haste (I have about 380 right now, bringing me to 11.6% before Judgments of the Pure) for better HL effectiveness, but most of the gear I've been seeing has forced me to choose between Crit and Haste, and I've just been using INT as the tie-breaker when choosing between roughly equivalent pieces.

I'm seeing a lot more use from Beacon of Light as well, enough that I'm done complaining about it. Glyph of Holy Light is being changed in the upcoming patch to have a 20-yard range (instead of 5) on its AoE effect, so we'll have a decent (if randomly targeted and weaker in the AoE component than other classes) AoE heal that also happens to be our primary spell. Beacon has proven to be extremely effective under the right circumstances, enough so that I'd say that situationally it's even better than any ability other classes have. For instance, combining Beacon with Hand of Sacrifice allows me to drastically (30%!) reduce the damage to the tank for 12 seconds and then healing myself and the tank simultaneously. The efficiency of having my Holy Shocks and Holy Lights apply to the tank while I heal a seriously-damaged DPSer, or being able to top off the group while keeping the tank up in most situations (with an occasional Shock to the tank to maintain HPS) is quite nice, and very mana-efficient. I'm not saying it's better than Chain Heal necessarily, but now that I've gotten used to its situational utility, I'm okay with it.

Oh, and Sacred Shield while soloing is about the best thing since sliced bread. I don't have to heal myself, I can use Seal of Wisdom, and just Holy Shock mobs to death and never run dry. It's certainly not as fast as almost anything else, but its enough to do my dailies. And apparently enough to make me unkillable during Madness in Heroic Old Kingdom; my groupmates constantly complain that Varra is impossible to kill, which makes me laugh (for myself, I seem to be able to sustain myself indefinitely in that fight while ever-so-slowly whittling down the group-clones). I suppose I'll need to do what the strategies suggest eventually and strip some gear so that my groupmates don't burst a blood vessel.

[Maxentius]

Since we have at least one other Healadin posting in this thread, do you have any recommendations for Naxx-entry gear?

This is almost completely off the top of my head, since I went into Wrath wearing mixed Tier 6 and equivalents and didn't take many upgrades until straight T7, buuuut let me see what I can come up with for you.

The Argent Crusade Exalted will give you a fantastic plate healing helm and an equally nice healing ring.

Pick up a pair of blue healing shoulders from the statue boss in Heroic Utgarde Pinnacle. As far as I'm aware, they are the best available pre-raid. Spaulders of Rhonok's Rhino Heart or something similar sounding. Alternatively, there's the Discarded Silver Hand Spaulders which drop from Mal'Ganis at the end of normal Stratholme (I think it's normal).

Badge shield, Barricade of the Light, or whatever it's called.

War Mace of Unrequited Love, from Heroic Nexus. Best pre-raid available as far as I'm aware.

I'm coming up empty on gauntlets (and I can't really be pruning wowhead at work), but something you may want to look into is snagging the blue PvP Holy gauntlets.

Cloak, Deathchill Cloak is pretty light on mats, and perfectly capable of lasting up through 10-man Naxx. An alternative would be the +Spellpower cloak available from the Kirin Tor.

The Bracers of Binding Light are BOE blue bracers that drop from Heroic Utgarde Pinnacle trash; as they're BOE you can also check the auction house.

The badge trinket with the Haste proc is phenomenal. I'm pretty sure it's identical in all but name to Embrace of the Spider, and the benefit is that the haste bonus can proc off almost anything; I'm serious. I've had that sucker go off when mounting up or changing tabards.

That's all I've got from five minutes of thought. When I get home I can do some actual research and come up with a more comprehensive, and probably better list.

[Crown]

I'm sure you've all probably seen this aready, but it needed to be shared; Kalgan on Retadins. Enjoy.

[Dorsk 81]

Since we have at least one other Healadin posting in this thread, do you have any recommendations for Naxx-entry gear?

I've been playing as Holy since tBC all the way through Sunwell and done everything so far in WotLK. With the current state of PvE your current crit rate is probably enough for Naxx although more would be nice, I wouldn't worry too much about haste yet, Judgements of the Pure should give you enough for now. You may want gem for a bit more int, 20k base mana is plenty and with Divine Plea you shouldn't ever have to worry about mana issues. Personally I'd aim for 20% base crit and 20k base mana and stick the rest in spell power, if you're having to pick between haste and crit now then take crit, it's a far more important starter stat for entry level; haste just increases the amount of spells you can cast in a given amount of time while crits increases the amount of healing your spells do, which in turns makes them more efficient and Illumination makes them even more efficient again. When you start getting gear choices in Naxx you can start taking the crit+haste itemized stuff, anything with MP5 is pretty poor as all your mana regen will come from crits and Divine Plea.

When it comes to taking gear, don't just go for plate either, there's plenty of mail, leather and cloth gear out there that's good for a Holy Paladin; Battlemap Hide Helm in heroic UK, Sorrowgrave's Breeches in UP, etc, etc, yea you'll look like a bit of a ho-bo, but that's not really important.

[Rahvin]

Thanks for the advice, all.

I'm working on my Argent Crusade rep (I got to Revered on instances and only now am I hitting the quests, so it shouldn't be too long) and getting Revered with Kirin Tor for the head 'chant. Already have my Meta purchased and ready as soon as I get the rep (the mana-return-proc one, which should significantly increase my longevity).

I'm using the Wyrmrest Revered mace (like 350 spellpower, 25 crit/haste) - how do you think that stacks against Unrequited? The drop has significantly more spellpower, and a fair amount more Int, but it sacrifices all of the crit/haste in favor of MP5, which is now a rather poor stat. Should I actively persue the drop?

I'm also using a nice pair of leather epic legs that dropped from a Heroic (sorry, don't have Armory access at work so I can't remember the name) that were just too much of an upgrade to pass up. I also have some epic bracers (I forget where I got those...), and the rest of my gear is blue quest rewards/drops, as well as my Alchemists Stone from TBC (63 SP, 40% better return on pots which is godly when I need a mana pot).

I have the Emblem belt and Libram - I'll consider the Haste trinket for my next purchase to satisfy my desire for quick heals, and focus the remainder of my itemization on INT/Crit (at least until I actually hit 20k). I'm trying to look for drops that don't include MP5 - compared to Crit/Haste/INT/SP, MP5 is just a wasted stat, so I'm happy to just take whatever comes on otherwise-ideally-itemized gear.

I'd also very much like to be able to drop Kings in favor of Sanctified Seals +2 left over (either Persuit of Justice of Imp. BoM for the melee). My only issue is that the tank (and me, unless he gives me a lame 10-minute version) needs Blessing of Sanctuary, and the loss of a 10% INT bonus for me and STAM/STR/AGI for the tank is just too significant. If/when I start actively raiding in Naxx perhaps I'll get lucky and a Retadin will magically appear, since they can pick up Kings with ease.

Feel free to check out my Armory - I'm Varra on Azjol-Nerub.

What's your opinion on the Redeemer's Alchemist's Stone? That 40% pot buff is huge, but I don't often need to use one. The 63 SP is still respectable, but I know I can get (or even already have) better than that in terms of SP or crit or proc trinkets.

[Ender]

Ok, I'm at 51 and expect to hit 52 tonight (enhancement shamans level fast). At 55 I plan on creating a DK and using them as my main (guild I'm looking to join needs more, has only 1 level 80 DK in it). This begs the question of what kind of DK to make. Looking at math, Orcs are made for blood or unholy with their pet bonuses, Trolls stand out in frost since their berserk is on top of the stacked haste, and Undead and Tauren are just middle ground. But Belfs are kinda pressed into a tanking hybrid of unholy/frost since their bonuses make them good for fighting casters and DK tanking is also based around anti casters. Now I wouldn't be tanking, so from a Minmax perspective, Belfs would not be a good choice, and I should go Orc or Troll. But from a looks perspective, I favor the Belfs.

So which is more important, looks or maxed stats?

[GuppyShark]

You're going to be playing it a lot. A character you think looks ugly isn't going to get as much playtime as it needs.

If racial changes were available I'd change my blood elf to an orc for the racial, but ultimately I'm not fussed. I never intended my rogue to become my main, it just happened.

[Ender]

You're going to be playing it a lot. A character you think looks ugly isn't going to get as much playtime as it needs.

I think Orcs only look good as helmetless warriors, carrying a huge freaking Axe, and coming with the following macro

Code: Select all

/yell Waaaaaaarrrrrrggggh!
/cast Charge

I tried playing that guy once and kept getting kicked from PUGs for spamming. Totally worth it though.

[Oskuro]

You're going to be playing it a lot. A character you think looks ugly isn't going to get as much playtime as it needs.

I think Orcs only look good as helmetless warriors, carrying a huge freaking Axe, and coming with the following macro
<snip>

I at first joined the game with the intention of playing an Orc Grunt. The opening cinematic only hyped me more about the Orcs and their savage and menacing style. And then I created the actual character.
<rant>
Orcs are so dorky ingame! They don't look menacing, they look inbred! Their posture, their vacant stares, even their voices. And that could be ignored if they had some better movements, but they move in a rather generic fashion. When I tried a Night Elf I loved it not only because of the aesthethics, but because the care they put into their movements to make them feel elegant and swift, but the Orcs are... Dorcs! I mean, I made my DK a female Orc because they at least look menacing in the DK armor, not like the rest of the horde, that either looks oversized or silly.

And yes, I can't stand playing something I can't enjoy looking at. I'm also one of those players that carries two sets of armor around, one for stats and the other for looks.
</endrant>

[Civil War Man]

My guild was totally on tonight. 5 of us got together and decided to do the daily heroic. Halls of Lightning. With Heroic Loken being the deadliest single mob in the game so far. Keep in mind that we haven't run Heroic Halls of Lightning before.

We had a pretty close call when one of the Vrykul ranged guys disengaged into the General in the beginning, but we pulled it out. Went into Volkhan, and got the Shatter Resistant achievement. Moved on to Ionar and took him out. Went to Loken, took him down in under 2 minutes (got the Timely Death achievement).

Cleared the whole instance on heroic with zero player deaths, and picked up all the Heroic achievements except the one where you kill General Bjarngrim while he has his buff up. Seems as though Loken's pretty easy so long as everyone knows what everyone else is doing. Which explains why a lot of PUGs wipe on him.

[Sriad]

A tangent, but has anyone else in this thread experienced the living hell that is Sartharion with Three Drakes yet?

I feel like my guild is very, very close to a kill on this, but the margin of error permitted in this fight is so slim as to be practically non-existent. Our main issue has generally been keeping Sartharion's tank alive when Shadron lands, as that 100% fire damage debuff has given us some spectacular instagibs. I'm talking 40, 50,000 damage here, to a target that hasn't got that much health normally, the least to say with Sartharion's 25% overall reduction active. Granted, we used a warrior when we might have been better suited using a Death Knight or Bear, but hopefully that will be seen to when we try again this week.

That fire breath spike, though, is really nasty. I respec'd from HolyRet to HolyProt just to pick up Divine Guardian to help mitigating some of those insane numbers, and it's been a big help. We did try it once with a DK tank, and the survivability increase over the warrior was very noticeable, imo, but we still couldn't complete the encounter. It seems like even one loose add, or one dead DPS, can break any attempt.

My guild and I joined the 3-Drake Sartharion kill club today!

Dorsk aside (and seriously, isn't every fight about getting "the right tactic and people not doing any stupid shit"?) Sartharion +3 is a hard fight, and it wouldn't have been out of place in late Sunwell; there is a hell of a lot going on during the crunch period of the fight. Lava waves that will kill you, void zones that'll kill you, adds that will jump onto healers instead of the tankadin trying to round them up... people need to be on the ball to stay out of all that fire. If you feel close though, you probably are. My guild racked up 50 wipes learning the week before we went on our holiday break and got him in 6 tries when we returned to full raiding today. Using our druid to tank Sartharion instead of an undergeared DK probably helped a lot. Put as many hit points in front of him as you can!

And Malygos is a colossal cockblock. I honestly do not see how you are going to be able to keep doing it with COH on a 6 second CD, considering you've got 25 members taking 2k damage per second, in a time when no casts can be got off. Almost inevitably means you're going to lose 1 or 2 clothies per vortex.

Though people will need to plan better it'll still be perfectly doable in mixed heroic Naxx10/25 gear. But leave a Soul Well where your DPS will be running away after they drop for an extra round of health stones.

[Minischoles]

Well hopefully we should get some more attempts on him this week, its looking pretty good with how fast we're clearing Naxx now. Did 9 bosses last night (all of Military, 3 in Construct and all of plague) which is pretty good pace for 3 hours raiding.

Loatheb was a bit insane last night, with our resident fury warrior Balator topping 7k DPS for the fight, a clear 1300 DPS in front of the nearest fury warrior to him. It could have been higher as well but he missed a few spores.

Luckily now also we've only got the relatively easy stuff left. Arachnid wing is so easy to blast through, Thaddius is becoming very easy with the level of DPS we have (unless we get blocked by server lag), and Sapphiron is a knockover if a nice majority of your DPS wear frost resistance (the amount of pressure this takes off the healers is great).

Now to see whether I can talk my guild into doing some Sartharion tries with 3 drakes up again.

[SpacedTeddyBear]

My PUG group cleared 10 Naxx all the way to Sapphiron...... then we got royally stuffed by him. It took 2 wipes before we finally got the rhythm down, but by then we were all pretty tired. We're gonna get together again to finish that bastard off. The warriors/tanks for that night made out in loot. Our OT went in decked in mainly blues, and came out of it geared from shoulders to feet.

[Crown]

Die in a fucking fire Ceepee. Oh, and report his IP to the authorities.

[Alyeska]

Die in a fucking fire Ceepee. Oh, and report his IP to the authorities.

It is being dealt with.