Joe the Plumber Live in Gaza.

[mr friendly guy]

If people would rather listen to (or watch) Joe the Plumber, how is he less qualified to be a journalist than some randomer who happens to have a journalism degree?

So you define a person's skill in a particular field as his or her ability to find an audience? Faith healers must love you.

Faith healers generally are better at what they do than people who don't get gigs as faith healers. If people want to pay for quackery then that's their business. If you think Joe the Report is a quack then simply don't watch him.

This might be going on a tangent here, but there is also the matter of fraud when it comes to faith healers. Not to mention double standards in the sense that doctors can be sued for negligence when patients don't get better, but faith healers aren't held to the same standards.

By that logic, Bernard Madoff couldn't be charge after losing $50 billion since people were not smart enough to see through his schemes. I mean if they want to pay for a quackery ponzi scheme then that's their business.

[Bounty]

This might be going on a tangent here, but there is also the matter of fraud when it comes to faith healers.

If you sincerely believe that every consumer is a well-informed individual with the time and means to personally verify the quality of every product and service he wishes to purchase as well as possessing an actual choice in the matter instead of a purely theoretical one; and that it is morally acceptable to allow people to suffer under fraud and incompetence to serve as an example, then there is no risk in allowing quacks, be they journalists, healers or people peddling fake medicine, to operate.

Too bad the real world doesn't work that way.

[Knife]

Reporting is more than standing in front of a camera and reading the lines your handlers give you, well I guess if your an anchor but that is just one small segment of journalists.

While true, it's not that easy to look and sound natural, as opposed to wooden, like you're reading something. Also, not every reporter is attractive enough to be in front of the camera reading the news. There's a reason not every reporter becomes a news reader.

Agreed.

This edit is really hilarious. If people would rather listen to (or watch) Joe the Plumber, how is he less qualified to be a journalist than some randomer who happens to have a journalism degree?

Er...I'm going out on a limb here and say... A JOURNALISM DEGREE. And not just the pretty piece of paper in the glass frame; rather all the training the person did to get that degree. All the writing, all the critical thinking skills, all the research skills, all the ethics courses. Granted, not all journalists are equal and there are bad ones. I've already stated my disdain for the profession as a whole, but that's not the same as considering it a paper tiger of some sort where any moron can jump up and do it cold.

Do you wish ill on 'unqualified' bloggers,

I swear to fucking christ the dead zombie god, the reading comprehension on this board has taken a nose dive lately.

I won't go as far as saying I hope something bad happens to him

on the basis that they're taking bread from the mouths of starving New York Times interns?

I couldn't give a shit what your personal little punching bags are. However, I have read enough blogs to know that they are just like everything else on the internet; you have to shift through a whole lot of shit to find a couple jewls. Blogers are no different. Some have more 'training' than others, some are raving morons for the very reason that they have zero training on how to present rhetoric to an audience.

Maybe he'll be rubbish and they'll get rid of him, otherwise what's the problem..

The same problem I have with every other shitface who can't stop at 15 minutes, when they get a touch of fame.

[K. A. Pital]

By that logic, Bernard Madoff couldn't be charge after losing $50 billion since people were not smart enough to see through his schemes. I mean if they want to pay for a quackery ponzi scheme then that's their business.

Yeah, but he really believes that If people are stupid enough to give their money to someone, this means competition and the winner takes all. He who takes the money of another by lying to him is the smarter person, and thus more entitled to the money! Libertarianism is a nice philosophy every fraudster should support.

Likewise, if people listen to a liar and a fraud, because truth is subjective, the liar and fraud is qualified to report. Why? Well, because that's the public choice!

[MKSheppard]

Reporting is more than standing in front of a camera and reading the lines your handlers give you, well I guess if your an anchor but that is just one small segment of journalists.

Actually, that pretty much is 95% of reportage these days. Unadulterated shit, which a chimpanzee could write. Good reportage is very far and inbetween to find; with a lot of mental midgets in the news bureaus...like calling every AFV a tank, every ship a battleship, etc.

[Kanastrous]

Edward R. Murrow might have been the last American journalist worthy of the name.

[Alyrium Denryle]

Faith healers generally are better at what they do than people who don't get gigs as faith healers. If people want to pay for quackery then that's their business. If you think Joe the Report is a quack then simply don't watch him.

So the potential damage Joe here will do to people who don't know any better than to trust him is of no concern to you?

What? Are you trying to say that if people try to impart views to others you disapprove of, they are 'dangerous' and ought to be suppressed? Sorry if I got that wrong, but are you some kind of nazi fruitcake?

Are you this big a fuckwit?

One of the fundamental premises of libertarianism is that consumers are informed rational agents. Now, if you look into behavioral economics (where economics meets real sciences like cognitive psychology and evolutionary biology) you will find that people are not rational. However by ascribing to the point of view that you propounding you undercut the "informed" part. A person cannot make rational choices if they are told bald faced lies, or have their confirmation bias fed by only telling them what they want to hear.

The conflating of information and entertainment, and indeed information with advertising revenue, has been one of the more dangerous consequences of the modern age, because the consumer (be it a consumer of products or ideas) as now no longer faithfully informed as to the products they are buying or the ideas they are accepting.

[Alyeska]

Edward R. Murrow might have been the last American journalist worthy of the name.

Don't be dissing Walter Kronkite.

[MKSheppard]

Er...I'm going out on a limb here and say... A JOURNALISM DEGREE. And not just the pretty piece of paper in the glass frame; rather all the training the person did to get that degree. All the writing, all the critical thinking skills, all the research skills, all the ethics courses

Stop it Knife! Before you make me choke to death from laughter.

[Darth Wong]

Journalists have a long history of demonstrating abominably pitiful critical thinking skills. Having said that, the average journalist is still far better educated and has far better critical thinking skills than Joe the Unlicensed Tax-Cheat Retard Plumber.

"Being a Christian I'm pretty well protected by God": Joe the Plumber's explanation of how he knows he will not be harmed if he goes into dangerous areas.

He's a goddamned idiot who's not even qualified to be a plumber, never mind a journalist.

[Knife]

Stop it Knife! Before you make me choke to death from laughter.

Get real Shep. There is a difference between someone who may not get formally educated in a subject or skill, yet takes enough personal time to research it and practice said skill and become sufficiently good at it, and some asshat who thinks one day they'll be a [insert profession].

If Joe the Dumbshit had spent five years, ten years, whatever, bloging or writing for small audiences, or a talking head on local TV, then I might be willing to say he's had a practical education in journalism. Don't confuse that with the 'Don't worry sir, I'm from the internet' type teenage delusions of grandeur.

[Bilbo]

The same problem I have with every other shitface who can't stop at 15 minutes, when they get a touch of fame.

Yep that damn peon should KNOW he is a nobody and get back to being obscure.

[Knife]

The same problem I have with every other shitface who can't stop at 15 minutes, when they get a touch of fame.

Yep that damn peon should KNOW he is a nobody and get back to being obscure.

Or he gets killed and we all have to feel sorry for him, right?

[Bilbo]

The same problem I have with every other shitface who can't stop at 15 minutes, when they get a touch of fame.

Yep that damn peon should KNOW he is a nobody and get back to being obscure.

Or he gets killed and we all have to feel sorry for him, right?

You can be if you want to. I never feel sorry for people who chose to put themself into dangerous situations.

But that is not the point here. You would be saying the same thing if he was picking up the microphone and being a "reporter" anywhere, not just a dangerous place.

I am just amused by your implication that some people should just know they are irrelevant peons and when the spotlight moves on they should go back to being peons.

[Justforfun000]

"Being a Christian I'm pretty well protected by God": Joe the Plumber's explanation of how he knows he will not be harmed if he goes into dangerous areas.

This is something I just can't wrap my head around. I mean it's one thing to believe in God and the afterlife, it's one thing to believe that he will count your "righteousness" in living towards your overall score...etc...etc...But where are they getting this idiot idea that God protects Christians here on earth in this current lifetime?

It only takes a brief skim of the Bible to see this is demonstrably false. For fuck's sake, even some of the APOSTLES all the way up to Peter the first were crucified. They weren't protected. Christians from the early centuries were fed to the lions...I mean it's absolute idiocy. We have enough stories of even freak accidents involving people in churches, Priests and Bishops killed in war, and countless other examples that suggest no protection whatsoever just because they are 'holy'.

This is a very perverted type of religious thinking that seems to be very American based. From all the past reading I had ever done regarding God and his love for you, it had to with your immortal soul and didn't guarantee you one whit of extra special protection here on earth. This is the Devil's playground! Everyone is at risk here.

I just get absolutely baffled by these people. I noticed the same thing on this new (somewhat intriguing although stupid), reality show on TV that started this week about 13 people going in the woods and they are caught in a format where people are picked off one by one and they are trying to get to the end as the last one so they can win $66600.0 I believe..

Anyway the one chick is going on when they have the individual camera speeches..."I just have to remember that I believe God will protect me and I'll be fine..."

Do you know how far back my eyes wanted to roll in my head? It's just ultimately silly and they aren't even basing the idea on good dogma. Idiots! I'm sure this foolish pseudo-comfort is helpful to coerce young men and women into going to war since they will be so well 'protected' if they are faithful.

[Uraniun235]

So the potential damage Joe here will do to people who don't know any better than to trust him is of no concern to you?

What? Are you trying to say that if people try to impart views to others you disapprove of, they are 'dangerous' and ought to be suppressed? Sorry if I got that wrong, but are you some kind of nazi fruitcake?

The concern is that whatever Joe The Asshole reports will probably be selectively chosen and presented in order to support dishonest political rhetoric, and that most people are not informed enough about the issues such that we cannot reasonably expect them to be able to determine whether or not Joe's reporting is or is not unreasonably biased.

There's nothing fascist in acknowledging that the willful proliferation of certain arguments and ideas could be dangerous or harmful to individuals (e.g. proliferating racist notions about black people being prone to committing rapes, leading to lynchings) or to society (e.g. "FREE MARKET SOLVES EVERYTHING, LET'S DEREGULATE !!").

[Themightytom]

"Being a Christian I'm pretty well protected by God": Joe the Plumber's explanation of how he knows he will not be harmed if he goes into dangerous areas.

He's a goddamned idiot who's not even qualified to be a plumber, never mind a journalist.

...God just blew his drink all over heaven.

Does anyone else feel we're being mainipulated into watching joe the jackass? Ho exactly would anyone protest this direction in journalism? Not watch? When was the last time Nielsen called any of you? This reminds me of a book I read "Fast food Nation" by eric schlosser when he pointed out that Mcdonalds began manipulating the public when they limited the menu to specific items. By directing the degree of choice you can pre-emptively make the choice. if all we find on TV is joe the plumber and Joe the plumber clones, we will INEVITABLY be forced either to conform or be an outsider.

Or wait for it to blow over, like reality shows did.

[Bilbo]

Does anyone else feel we're being mainipulated into watching joe the jackass? Ho exactly would anyone protest this direction in journalism? Not watch? When was the last time Nielsen called any of you? This reminds me of a book I read "Fast food Nation" by eric schlosser when he pointed out that Mcdonalds began manipulating the public when they limited the menu to specific items. By directing the degree of choice you can pre-emptively make the choice.

Eh?


First off McDonalds is a restaurant and can chose to sell whatever it wants as long as its legal. Second they are not trying to manipulate anyone. They are trying to maxmize their profit by reducing the variety of products they carry.

Now if McDonalds wants to not list some of their products on their menu that is their choice. Doing so causes two things. It alters the perceived cost of eating there, since McDonalds overall tastes like crap and people eat for convenience and low cost this will merely reduce their business. It will also reduce the sale of some items which may increase loss of profit due to product spoilage.

Or you can believe that McDonalds is the secret heart of the new Illuminati.

[Alyrium Denryle]

Eh?


First off McDonalds is a restaurant and can chose to sell whatever it wants as long as its legal. Second they are not trying to manipulate anyone. They are trying to maxmize their profit by reducing the variety of products they carry.

Now if McDonalds wants to not list some of their products on their menu that is their choice. Doing so causes two things. It alters the perceived cost of eating there, since McDonalds overall tastes like crap and people eat for convenience and low cost this will merely reduce their business. It will also reduce the sale of some items which may increase loss of profit due to product spoilage.

Or you can believe that McDonalds is the secret heart of the new Illuminati.

God you are an idiot.

McDonalds and in fact every company which uses advertising manipulates us all the time. Advertisements are designed by paid psychologists and marketers to do just that. McDonalds for example plays down the quality of the food and plays up a lifestyle narrative in order to sell their product.

When they created a menu with "value meals" and specific choices like that; they maximize their profits by directing people through the perceived choice between different specific products (instead of a 'build your own' laundry list, for example) into buying the combinations with the highest profit to cost ratio, "adding" options such as supersizing which costs them practically nothing but nets them a good chunk of change, short change employee training by allowing them to memorize specific sandwitches or value meals, and allowing them to advertise specific options which brings in revenue.

The whole enterprise is about manipulation.

[Bilbo]

God you are an idiot.

I am not God. You have though proven in one little sentance that every attempt by your parents to teach you a little class failed miserably.

Have a nice day.

[Alyrium Denryle]

God you are an idiot.

I am not God. You have though proven in one little sentance that every attempt by your parents to teach you a little class failed miserably.

Have a nice day.

Nice style over substance fallacy. You also fail at reading comprehension. I never called you god, but rather appealed to god while in the process of calling you an idiot.

However perhaps my label of you was too hasty. Perhaps the better label is microcephalic cunt.

How is that for class?

[Patrick Degan]

"Being a Christian I'm pretty well protected by God": Joe the Plumber's explanation of how he knows he will not be harmed if he goes into dangerous areas.

I'd say the matter is up to the Judgement of Darwin, then. Hopefully, Joe has not yet spawned.

[Alyrium Denryle]

"Being a Christian I'm pretty well protected by God": Joe the Plumber's explanation of how he knows he will not be harmed if he goes into dangerous areas.

I'd say the matter is up to the Judgement of Darwin, then. Hopefully, Joe has not yet spawned.

After a quick search, I dont think he has any legitimate children. On the other hand he is regrettably, not a bad looking guy and it would not shock me to see him having reproduced via the clandestine route of cuckoldry.

[Knife]

But that is not the point here. You would be saying the same thing if he was picking up the microphone and being a "reporter" anywhere, not just a dangerous place.

I am just amused by your implication that some people should just know they are irrelevant peons and when the spotlight moves on they should go back to being peons.

Actually, I'd say 'normal'. Your the one that wants to make a zing with the 'peon' bit.

[K. A. Pital]

I thought Knife's point was that one should get qualified in the area he's striving to work in before going to "work" in it.

You know, like an architect getting a degree before building huge glass towers and becoming the new famous Norman Foster from a "lowly peon".

Because if he doesn't, the buildings can collapse and people will die. If Joe the Plumber does not get qualified, the "information" he will relay will have the quality of bullshit more likely than not. Which will also lead to bad results - maybe not as severe, but still.

So before harping about "peons knowing their place", Bilbo, think one bit - would you be comfortable in a world where Joe the Plumber wants to become a famous architect and erect a skyscraper, or become a surgeon and save the lives of people without learning anything about it? Straight into the fray? No? Then why would you feel comfortable about an unqualified person becoming a reporter? Probably because "reporting" is a junk profession which has degraded to crap in terms of quality, so you no longer care if it degrades even further with Joe the Plumber.