Highlights of the EU

[TheSpaceman?]

As a relative EU newbie and one who values the opinions of this forum on the quality of Star Wars-related stuff relatively highly, I thought it might be interesting to see what you guys believe to be the highlights of the EU. I've only read Dark Empire, the Republic comics, the novelizations of the movies, the Thrawn Trilogy, LSATSOM, LoE, and Dark Lord, and I wanted to see what you guys had to say about the rest of the EU. What, in your opinions, are highlights that are recommended reading? This may seem like a strange topic, but I've really wanted to ask about this ever since I read the "Worst of the EU" thread.

[Batman]

TTT, obviously, and the Hand of Thrawn duology. The original Han Solo trilogy (the one by Brian Daley), the Lando Calrissian trilogy by L. Neil Smith, and Allstons Wraith Squadron books. Can't comment on anything published post-NJO because that...storyline put me off reading the Wars EU for good.

[Coiler]

As bad as her later novels are, Traviss' Hard Contact is actually a good book.

[Noble Ire]

You've already read some of the best, particularly the Zahn stuff and Dark Lord. There are a few parts of the New Jedi Order I found quite memorable (Star By Star and Traitor particularly), but there are some less than stellar books in the series, as well; I'd recommend it in its entirety, for all its faults, but it is quite long, and you might consider delving into the EU elsewhere, first. Hard Contact is a solid choice, in spite of its author, as is the Medstar duology; they're both less focused on Jedi and Galaxy-spanning events in general, and provide an interesting perspective.

[The Romulan Republic]

Interestingly, I thought of a similar thread just like yesterday.

Besides Dark Lord and The Thrawn Trilogy I can't think of much in the way of books. Frankly I haven't read a lot of the EU novels. The only others I really feel stand out are the ICS books (technical companions, not novels), the original Clone Wars series (TV), and, though I haven't played it, by reputation Knights of the Old Republic (game).

[DrMckay]

Both Han Solo Trilogies (Corporate Sector and Young Han Solo,) to get an insight into what was going on in the galaxy pre-Yavin, how the rebellion was formed, and how Han got in debt.

Thrawn Trilogy, Thrawn Duology

Some of the Stories in the "Tales" books (KJA being a notable, awful exception)

Rogue Squadron was okay, Wraith Squadron was Awesome, But my personal favorite has to be Aaron Allston's Starfighters of Adumar, The last book in the X-wing Series, and an excellent (and hilarious stand-alone as well.) It also showed a seamier side of republic diplomacy.

Some Quotes:

"I've been reviewing engineering and performance statistics."
"What, while we've been maneuvering?"
"Yes, restraining myself so that you could keep up with me has left me plenty of time for intellectual pursuits. I also composed a symphony and drafted a plan to bring peace to the galaxy."
Tycho & Wes (SoA)

"Stay loose, Red Flight. Diplomacy first."
"Leader, Three. Diplomacy means saying something soothing as you squeeze the trigger, right?"
Wedge & Wes (SoA)

Can I Get a "Yub Yub Commander" up in here?

[Darth Hoth]

Zahn is overrated; his writing tends towards the idiosyncratic and extremely minimalist, and he likes his own pet characters a bit too much (not that this is not true of most of the EU . . . ).

Dark Empire is the best the EU has to offer, in my opinion; the art is awful at best, but it is the story that best captures the spirit and scale of the universe (of course, this includes some stupidities worthy of Lucas himself; one has to take the good with the bad). Tales of the Jedi, excepting KJA's lame prequels, are also good stuff. Strange as it may seem, comics in general are often superior to the written EU. The best of Bantam are probably the X-wing books and I, Jedi; Stackpole and Allston are both terribly minimalist, but at least their stories work, and are not about constantly having Uber Character X outfighting Luke, outgambling Han or seducing Leia.

Anything from New Jedi Order onwards is on a downwards plunge; there are decent books in that series, but most are mediocre at best and awful at worst. Star by Star is the best in the series, more for its epicness than other qualities.

[Darth Hoth]

Both Han Solo Trilogies (Corporate Sector and Young Han Solo,) to get an insight into what was going on in the galaxy pre-Yavin, how the rebellion was formed, and how Han got in debt.

First Han Solo trilogy was good, not so much the second. It is a textbook example of many EU brainbugs (LOL Evil Cartoon Empire that discriminates against women ) and screws up several characterisations (Boba Fett, most notably), fails to cover Han's backstory in adequate detail, suffers from a little too much name-dropping and "tie-in"/"Hey look at this!" moments, a lame main character (Bria Tharen), Deus ex Machina writing and a messed-up view of the Imperial Navy (Soontir Fel is awfully misplaced). And the end just feels off; when the heroes walk up to Han in the cantina in Star Wars, does he appear to be having his worst day of all time (recently betrayed, indebted and just having received news his girlfriend is dead)? Emphatically, no - he appears to be pretty much enjoying business as usual.

[Darth Yan]

From what EU i've read The unifying force. The story was good and the action sequences, particularly the final battle scene between Jacen and the main bad guy, were incredibly engaging.

The Corellian trilogy is also pretty good. as are Tales of the Jedi and Kotor: (games and comic)

[RogueIce]

First Han Solo trilogy was good, not so much the second. It is a textbook example of many EU brainbugs (LOL Evil Cartoon Empire that discriminates against women )

Huh? Where did that happen? At the end of The Paradise Snare he even notes there being a female cadet amongst the rest (when he was noticing who else was without family and friends at the send off). If the no female bias is anywhere else in the series I totally did not see it.

[Darth Hoth]

Bria Tharen rants and raves about it quite a bit, usually more than once per book.

[Ender]

The "Darth Vader" Trilogy - Labyrinth of Evil, Star Wars Episode III: Revenge of the Sith novelization, Dark Lord: The Rise of Darth Vader

[Murazor]

Among the older novels I am partial to the novels of the largely reviled "Black Fleet" trilogy. In part, because the primary antagonists aren't the Imperial warlord of the week with Yet Another Stupid Superweapon (TM) and because the military of the New Republic is presented as an effective and professional force.

[Tiriol]

I echo Ender's nomination of Luceno/Stover "Darth Vader" trilogy. I also add Death Star, the ongoing Coruscant Nights series, Thrawn Trilogy (and to a lesser extent, the Hand of Thrawn duology) and couple of NJO books: Remnant and The Unifying Force, to be exact.

[TheSpaceman?]

Thanks for all the responses so far. I'm really torn about the Yuuzhan Vong series, I've heard very mixed things about it. And I'm surprised people are recommending the Lando trilogy, I hadn't heard much about it before. BTW, how were the old Marvel Star Wars comics? I'm considering getting into those.

[Batman]

For some reason, a lot of people remember Daley's Han Solo trilogy but NOT Smith's Lando trilogy (possibly because Lando Calrissian wasn't quite as prominent a character). As for the Marvel comics, whatever damage they may do to the canon (which isn't going to be much given how low comics are on the Canon Totem pole), what little I've read of them was rather entertaining.

[TheSpaceman?]

Yeah, I probably wouldn't read all of the Marvel stuff if I read any. And I'd probably like to hear what the opinions of them are before I even did that.

[DrMckay]

I get that folks have issues with Stackpole's scaling (Isard having only 4 Destroyers during Bacta War, Etc,) and starfoghter wanking, but what are the issues with Allston? (Scaling and otherwise)

The Wraith books are about a smaller-scale messy hunt for Warlord Zinsj (Who Allston actually managed to turn into an intelligent and engaging villian-despite his lackluster introduction of Courtship of Princess Leia.)

As to Starfighters of Adumar-it took place on one planet. What kind of scale was off?

[DesertFly]

I recommend the old Han Solo and Lando trilogies. They're very different than most EU novels, and are just fun little reads all around. No galaxy shaking things are happening, just the two scoundrels forced to use their wits and charm to get by in a harsh galaxy. They're also both fairly severed from the "outside" galaxy, though references to them will pop up here and there.

I just finished the Darth Bane duology, and although perhaps a bit uneven in places, it is nice to see a nice little adventure where the bad guys win.

[Pelranius]

I like Survivor's Quest and Tatooine Ghost, actually. They were sort of more like detective/espionage stories than the standard Warlord of the week fare, but I felt that they were both fun to read despite some technological and scaling issues.

[Darth Hoth]

For some reason, a lot of people remember Daley's Han Solo trilogy but NOT Smith's Lando trilogy (possibly because Lando Calrissian wasn't quite as prominent a character). As for the Marvel comics, whatever damage they may do to the canon (which isn't going to be much given how low comics are on the Canon Totem pole), what little I've read of them was rather entertaining.

It depends. Some of the stories are very good, others are toilet paper; they are of very varying quality. Generally, with several exceptions, the later in the run, the worse they are.

I get that folks have issues with Stackpole's scaling (Isard having only 4 Destroyers during Bacta War, Etc,) and starfoghter wanking, but what are the issues with Allston? (Scaling and otherwise)

The Wraith books are about a smaller-scale messy hunt for Warlord Zinsj (Who Allston actually managed to turn into an intelligent and engaging villian-despite his lackluster introduction of Courtship of Princess Leia.)

He assigns, what, a dozen Star Destroyers to defend Kuat, the greatest Imperial asset, and an analogous force to Coruscant? He makes it a point in the story that Zsinj's five-mile cruiser is exceptionally dangerous, expensive, nigh-unique and a galactic threat? He has Zsinj infiltrate a New Republic Sector Command, then use the sleeper agent to plant information to destroy all of one fighter squadron? He has mouse 'droids (MSE-6s) destroy a Super Star Destroyer by internal sabotage?

As to Starfighters of Adumar-it took place on one planet. What kind of scale was off?

The fact that this one primitive and unaligned planet was viewed as being of vital interest to the major galactic factions for its armaments industries?

[Darth Hoth]

I recommend the old Han Solo and Lando trilogies. They're very different than most EU novels, and are just fun little reads all around. No galaxy shaking things are happening, just the two scoundrels forced to use their wits and charm to get by in a harsh galaxy. They're also both fairly severed from the "outside" galaxy, though references to them will pop up here and there.

The Han Solo Adventures is a good series; the Lando Calrissian Trilogy is decent to good in the first two books, including interesting tech details (that have not necessarily been overridden since), despite major stupidities. They are good, light reads, and actually suffer from comparatively little minimalism. The third book, however, really is off; all right, I can buy the plot, but throughout it makes the Imperial Navy look like total goofy retards with crap technology.

[consequences]

I get that folks have issues with Stackpole's scaling (Isard having only 4 Destroyers during Bacta War, Etc,) and starfoghter wanking, but what are the issues with Allston? (Scaling and otherwise)

The Wraith books are about a smaller-scale messy hunt for Warlord Zinsj (Who Allston actually managed to turn into an intelligent and engaging villian-despite his lackluster introduction of Courtship of Princess Leia.)

He assigns, what, a dozen Star Destroyers to defend Kuat, the greatest Imperial asset, and an analogous force to Coruscant? He makes it a point in the story that Zsinj's five-mile cruiser is exceptionally dangerous, expensive, nigh-unique and a galactic threat? He has Zsinj infiltrate a New Republic Sector Command, then use the sleeper agent to plant information to destroy all of one fighter squadron? He has mouse 'droids (MSE-6s) destroy a Super Star Destroyer by internal sabotage?

An outlying shipyard, and the people with actual knowledge of Coruscant's available strength knew the operation was bogus. An Executor, if properly powered according to its volume is worth over a thousand ISDs, and even at five miles should be worth a hundred or more. The mouse droids sabotage the hyperdrive, delete a star from the nav computer, and hack communication to send ship status data to the rebels and a single Holocomm transmission, they don't destroy squat.

The fighter squadron has no particular excuse apart from the general theme of the books, but Zsinj didn't even order the infiltration, one of his subordinates did, so you fail there too.

It's also worth noting that anything less than an Executor getting whacked was considered merely a nuisance that Zsinj would recover from without difficulty, including fights where the NR captured multiple star destroyers.

[Darth Hoth]

An outlying shipyard,

And part of the most heavily defended system still in Imperial hands.

and the people with actual knowledge of Coruscant's available strength knew the operation was bogus.

Bullshit. Zsinj assigned the mission trainees a profile specifically engineered to look like Coruscant's defences, which was what the Wraith analysts perceived it as till they bothered to convert the tonnage listed into Imperial-built ships.

An Executor, if properly powered according to its volume is worth over a thousand ISDs, and even at five miles should be worth a hundred or more.

It could be worth a thousand, it would still be minimalist to say that it is what tips the galactic power balance. That a five-miler should do so is nearly as bad as the Zahn Katana Fleet fallacy.

The mouse droids sabotage the hyperdrive, delete a star from the nav computer, and hack communication to send ship status data to the rebels and a single Holocomm transmission, they don't destroy squat.

They were described as sabotaging enough vital systems to cripple the ship, even if they did not outright destroy it.

The fighter squadron has no particular excuse apart from the general theme of the books, but Zsinj didn't even order the infiltration, one of his subordinates did, so you fail there too.

So it was not Zsinj, but Trigit (I remembered it that he was acting on his orders, but I might be wrong there). How does this make it less stupid?

It's also worth noting that anything less than an Executor getting whacked was considered merely a nuisance that Zsinj would recover from without difficulty, including fights where the NR captured multiple star destroyers.

Meh; that is better than what much of the EU shows, at least. But it does not excuse the rest.

Allston is not a bad author; he and Stackpole are among the EU top. Their series are still minimalist, however.

[DrMckay]

I got the impression the Trigit/Petothel operation (Talon destruction) was an Isard leftover, (ie: her obsession with killing pilots and squadrons,) and the effort to bring Petothel in (After she had been discovered by NRI)-instead of simply killing her, was used to show the difference between Zinsj and Isard as regards to their views of "Disposable personnel."

As far as minimalism goes, I guess it dosn't really bother me as much as it does you. At least Allston had fleet groups, resource wars, business empires, etc. on the other hand, sometimes numbers can get too ludicrous, ie: Traviss and KJA-

By the way, could someone please, please explain to me how four Imperial-Class Star Destroyers commanded by a halfwit who only got her Admirals bars by doing the oriontal mambo with Tarkin constitutes a CREDIBLE THREAT to the enitre BLOODY NEW REPUBLIC? (Which was only building one new star cruiser at the time-on Calamari at least.)

And why the HELL was Wedge tapped as a bodyguard while general?

On Adumar and Minimalism, the book was a bit of a romp, I'll grant you, (though still my favorite,) but the planet was advanced enough to produce spaceworthy-hyperspace capable fighters, and industrialized many nations had industrialized for military production. According to Cracken, Adumar was wanted to increase supplies of Proton Torpedos, helping a little bit with fighters, not to change the balance of power forever.