Well, well...

Einhander Sn0m4n · Post by **Einhander Sn0m4n** » 2003-02-03 11:03pm

People killing people is simply wrong, fucked up, and inexcusable.

salm · Post by **salm** » 2003-02-03 11:04pm

Ted wrote:
IG-88E wrote:Ted, just shut your fucking mouth and quit digging yourself a deeper grave. The fact that the US has pissed people off give you NO FUCKING RIGHT th think 'cool' when thousands of people ARE FUCKING DYING!
You know what though Iggy?

Those few thousand are INSIGNIFICANT.

Look at the Rawandan Civil War.

In 7 months, 800,000 were hacked to death by machetes.

You could walk across the rivers by walking across the limbs.

The water flowed RED for fucks sake.

Yet do the americans care, no.

If Bin Laden had set off one of his supposed dirty nukes in NY, then maybe I might not have been so apathetic towards americans.

insignificant? no, definately not.
just because a lot of americans as well as canadians as well as everybody else besides the rewandians dont give shit about what happened there doesnt mean that 3000 deaths are insignificant.
if you dont care about the wtc victims because you think that the americans are idiots because they dont care about the rewandians, you put yourself on the same level as the americans who dont care.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2003-02-03 11:11pm

Ted, just stop talking.

Einhander Sn0m4n · Post by **Einhander Sn0m4n** » 2003-02-03 11:12pm

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:Ted, just stop talking.

I second that.

Ted · Post by **Ted** » 2003-02-03 11:13pm

In Porto Alegre, Brazil, a large concert hall erupted in anger when a visiting black jazz musican from New York insisted on beginning his performance with a rendering of "God Bless America". The kids replied with chants of "Osama! Osama!"

There were celebrations on the streets of Bolivia.

In Greece the government supressed the publication of opinion polls that showed a large majority in favour of the hits, and football crowds refused to obeserve the two minute silence.

In Beijing the news came too late in the night for anything more than a few celebratory fireworks, but in the week that followed the reaction became clearer. While the Politburo dithered for over 24 hours, Hsinhua, the official Chinese news agency, put out a short video of the September 11 footage, complete with Hollywood music so that the moment could be enjoyed at leisure. A second video mixed images of the evets with footage from King Kong and other disaster movies. Beiling students interviewed by the New Yorker spoke openly of their delight. Some of them reminded the shocked journalist of the lack of response in the West when NATO planes had bombed the Chinese embassy in Belgrade. Only 6 Chinese had been killed compared to the 3 thousand in New York, but the students insisted that for them the 6 were as important as the 3 thousand.

Excerpt from The Clash of Fundementalsims by Tariq Ali.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2003-02-03 11:16pm

Are you deaf (or blind, actually)?

SHUT UP!!!!

GOD DAMN IT, JUST SHUT THE FUCK UP, YOU HEARTLESS BASTARD!!!!

Ted · Post by **Ted** » 2003-02-03 11:17pm

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:Are you deaf (or blind, actually)?

SHUT UP!!!!

GOD DAMN IT, JUST SHUT THE FUC UP, YOU HEARTLESS BASTARD!!!!

The truth hurts, yes.

If you don't want to read it, dont.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2003-02-03 11:18pm

Stop posting that kind of stuff, or you're going to end up with a title like "Heartless Bastard" or such.

Ted · Post by **Ted** » 2003-02-03 11:21pm

Oh, I've got a heart, else I wouldn't be alive, now would I?

I may be completely apathetic towards the fucked up americans, but that doesn't mean I'm a bastard, now, does it?

Anyways, isn't Enlightenment the heartless bastard?

Einhander Sn0m4n · Post by **Einhander Sn0m4n** » 2003-02-03 11:27pm

Ted wrote:Oh, I've got a heart, else I wouldn't be alive, now would I?

I may be completely apathetic towards the fucked up americans, but that doesn't mean I'm a bastard, now, does it?

Anyways, isn't Enlightenment the heartless bastard?

Dood, I think you just pissed off all the Americans here on the board. See You In Hell.

salm · Post by **salm** » 2003-02-03 11:27pm

Ted wrote:In Porto Alegre, Brazil, a large concert hall erupted in anger when a visiting black jazz musican from New York insisted on beginning his performance with a rendering of "God Bless America". The kids replied with chants of "Osama! Osama!"

There were celebrations on the streets of Bolivia.

In Greece the government supressed the publication of opinion polls that showed a large majority in favour of the hits, and football crowds refused to obeserve the two minute silence.

In Beijing the news came too late in the night for anything more than a few celebratory fireworks, but in the week that followed the reaction became clearer. While the Politburo dithered for over 24 hours, Hsinhua, the official Chinese news agency, put out a short video of the September 11 footage, complete with Hollywood music so that the moment could be enjoyed at leisure. A second video mixed images of the evets with footage from King Kong and other disaster movies. Beiling students interviewed by the New Yorker spoke openly of their delight. Some of them reminded the shocked journalist of the lack of response in the West when NATO planes had bombed the Chinese embassy in Belgrade. Only 6 Chinese had been killed compared to the 3 thousand in New York, but the students insisted that for them the 6 were as important as the 3 thousand.

Excerpt from The Clash of Fundementalsims by Tariq Ali.

what´s your point?

Ted · Post by **Ted** » 2003-02-03 11:28pm

salm wrote:what´s your point?

My point is that it is not just the Moslem world that hates the americans, but those friends and allies of the US, like Greece.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2003-02-03 11:40pm

And?

This makes your position what again?

Truth is people die, yes...no one on this earth is going to debate that.

Teling people looky I think it's cool that 3000 people die and so do others makes you a dick.

I don't care if half the goddamn world think it's cool...people dying is not cool, I don't care where it happening.

salm · Post by **salm** » 2003-02-03 11:41pm

Ted wrote:
salm wrote:what´s your point?
My point is that it is not just the Moslem world that hates the americans, but those friends and allies of the US, like Greece.

yes, most of germany dislikes the us, and i´d be surprised if that´s different in other european countries. to get mor acurate, most of germany hates the us government and it´s followers not the american people itself.

but how does that change anything about finding the attack to be cool?

Post by **weemadando** » 2003-02-03 11:41pm

salm wrote:
weemadando wrote:
I didn't think it was cool, but I was being less than compassionate (laughing and at times cheering) while watching the telecast.

Sure it was a shitty event and "evil", but damn, you guys did have it coming.
that´s fucked up, man!

Why is it fucked up? Because I recognised the consequences? Because I hoped that it would have some effect other than to get the US even more uppity than ever? How many people in the US would have genuinely opposed Bush giving himself dictatorial powers (beyond what he already holds) to "help us through this troubled time".

The US got hit. Big deal. I feel sorry for the families and friends of those who died, but that doesn't mean that I should bow down and pay homage to the great democratic regime of the United States of Satan - I mean America.

Every year thousands of people die as a result of terrorism. What makes September 11 any more horrifying than the others? What makes September 11 any worse than firebombing in WW2, or dropping nuclear weapons on Japan? Sure it was a "sneak attack", but hell, so is any successful military action.

Thats right, I said military action. When was the last time there was a war without civilian casualties? I don't condone that course of action, but you have to recognise that a terrorists greatest weapon isn't their fanatacism, their willpower or anything like that. Its fear. And the best way to harness that fear is to use the media.

Plane 1 hits, within minutes the news helicopters are covering it and crews are scrambling to get good shots. Plane 2 hits the other tower, with the media capturing every frame of it to be played again and again to embed it in the minds of every American. Plane 3, which hit the Pentagon was a statement, that not even the HQ of the most powerful military in the world was safe. Plane 4 that was likely bound for the White House or the Capital Building was to be the coup-de-grace, the final blow to one of the most recognisable landmarks in the US, landmarks which already had camera crews waiting outside to catch the images.

Where are the cameras to show us the suffering of those in the middle east? They get turned back by Israeli troops. Where are they in the Balkans? They get footage from military sources and have military "escorts", that would be better named "censors". Afghanistan? CNN showed hours of footage of Taliban dead an dying, but the moment an American soldier got a shrapnel wound, the cameras were turned off.

I'll say again, that september 11 was a precision strike carried out to near perfection. And that America played right into it, going to fight wars that should have been fought a decade ago - and doing it the wrong way. The world has turned against them and they still refuse to realise it.

on the other hand i wouldnt be surprised if a fair amount of sd.net members would cheer if baghdadh was carped bombed.

Indeed they would. Again I'll ask, since when has a laser guided bomb been more discriminating and precise than an airliner flown into its target, or a carbomb in a basement? They hit their target and do the damage. What were some of the first targets of the Gulf War? Hospitals. Why? To put a strain on morale and infrastructure. Its cruel but its the way war is today. Weapons designed to wound, not to kill. Civilians targetted to make a point. And infrastructure destroyed so that the enemy cannot fight.

America has admitted it made mistakes in Afghanistan. Only Kabul and regional airbases are under any form of control, and only they are seeing the rebuilding program. The gaol uprising? That was the fault of the CIA operatives who were later heralded as heroes. The warlords have even more power than before because they don't have to fight the Taliban and receive provisional US support.

What makes people think that Iraq will be any different? What makes people believe that the Iraqi's will welcome the US with open arms? What makes people think that the Middle East will so gladly accept American intervention?

People forget that everyone suffers losses, but not everyone has the capacity to retaliate at will. And sometimes those that do strike back in ways far worse than the way in which they were hit. The world needs to try and break out of the circle of violence. Not intensify it.

CmdrWilkens · Post by **CmdrWilkens** » 2003-02-03 11:43pm

Dalton can attest my own feeling on the mater. I mean sure its tragic but frankly I find it amazing that we lower flags to half staff and spend hours every day covering this but the death of an equal, if not grater, number of people at a NC medical supplies camp has become afterthought news. I mean who decided that the lives of the astronauts were somehow more importatn than those of the factory workers.

Enforcer Talen · Post by **Enforcer Talen** » 2003-02-03 11:46pm

Id agree with weemadando in that it was a part of war, but I disagree that it should be cheered.

Ted · Post by **Ted** » 2003-02-03 11:48pm

CmdrWilkens wrote:Dalton can attest my own feeling on the mater. I mean sure its tragic but frankly I find it amazing that we lower flags to half staff and spend hours every day covering this but the death of an equal, if not grater, number of people at a NC medical supplies camp has become afterthought news. I mean who decided that the lives of the astronauts were somehow more importatn than those of the factory workers.

Or even of the 7 teenagers who died in an avalanche.

The only coverage it got on CNN was a quick flash across the bottom, relating to avalanche saftey.

It is like saying that a professional diver who drowns is more important than a kid who say, got shot while walking to school.

Pistolero · Post by **Pistolero** » 2003-02-03 11:56pm

I think it is utterly irrelevant where 9/11 happened. It was a heinous attack that cost the lives of nearly 3000 human beings, and I would have been equally pissed off had it happened in Moscow, Paris or Mexico City. The loss of life was regrettable, even more so due to the motivation behind the attacks.

I work nights, so I was asleep when my wife woke me up. Her first words: We are under attack! My first thought: Where did the nuke hit???

Terrorism needs to be totally wiped from the face of the Earth, and it is irrelevant where you were born. If you think terrorists are cool, you deserve to be destroyed.

Of course, this is just my opinion, I could be wrong.

Crayz9000 · Post by **Crayz9000** » 2003-02-03 11:56pm

Ted, what the fuck is your point? You're randomly posting all these little news blurbs.. but WHY?! They have absolutely NOTHING to do with the topic as it was before you hijacked it!

salm · Post by **salm** » 2003-02-03 11:56pm

weemadando wrote:
salm wrote:
weemadando wrote:
I didn't think it was cool, but I was being less than compassionate (laughing and at times cheering) while watching the telecast.

Sure it was a shitty event and "evil", but damn, you guys did have it coming.
that´s fucked up, man!
Why is it fucked up? Because I recognised the consequences? Because I hoped that it would have some effect other than to get the US even more uppity than ever? How many people in the US would have genuinely opposed Bush giving himself dictatorial powers (beyond what he already holds) to "help us through this troubled time".

laughing and cheering at an act that causes 3000 deaths (deaths assumed to that point of time even aroun 20 000) is fucked up. just as fucked up as cheering and laughing if us bombers carpet bombed bagdad

The US got hit. Big deal. I feel sorry for the families and friends of those who died, but that doesn't mean that I should bow down and pay homage to the great democratic regime of the United States of Satan - I mean America.

never said you should. in fact i agree with you on this point.

Every year thousands of people die as a result of terrorism. What makes September 11 any more horrifying than the others? What makes September 11 any worse than firebombing in WW2, or dropping nuclear weapons on Japan? Sure it was a "sneak attack", but hell, so is any successful military action.

it´s not more horrifying than any of the ones mentioned since the ones above were just like 9/11 aimed mainly at civilians
it´s got nothing to do with my point though.

*snip* since non of the other stuff has anything to do with my point.

Ted · Post by **Ted** » 2003-02-04 12:00am

Crayz9000 wrote:Ted, what the fuck is your point? You're randomly posting all these little news blurbs.. but WHY?! They have absolutely NOTHING to do with the topic as it was before you hijacked it!

They have relevance, because they deal with the media forcing us to watch only one event, while more important events ocour.

Post by **weemadando** » 2003-02-04 12:02am

salm wrote:
laughing and cheering at an act that causes 3000 deaths (deaths assumed to that point of time even aroun 20 000) is fucked up. just as fucked up as cheering and laughing if us bombers carpet bombed bagdad

Laughing and cheering at the telecast. Re-read my original post.

Did any other non-Americans watch the CNN telecast? It was pathetic, truly atrocious. I've already said that I felt sorry for people affected by it. but that doesn't change my reactions.

Call me insensitive if you want, but I'm not. I understand quite well what many of you must have been feeling. But I wasn't feeling that. Sue me.

Crayz9000 · Post by **Crayz9000** » 2003-02-04 12:04am

Ted wrote:They have relevance, because they deal with the media forcing us to watch only one event, while more important events ocour.

You still hijacked the fucking thread. It wasn't about the media ignoring events. It was about how we felt about the Columbia incident.

This thread really needs a splitting.

Post by **Zaia** » 2003-02-04 12:05am

Anders, Ted, do me a favour and just SHUT THE FUCK UP.

Why is it that you think we Americans care nothing for the trajedies of others? Because your country's government does a little blurb in the news about 'America's response' to whatever, and it's not of an appropriate level to satisfy you? Do you really think that fucking accurately represents me, an American citizen, as a person?! Of course not! Does this mean that I think killing in other countries is ok? Of course not! Have I cried over deaths of other country's citizens? YES I HAVE. I hate to hear about ANYONE dying, whether it's a solidier on the frontlines, or a civilian who did not know his office building was a war zone.

Are you going to lie to my face and say it doesn't hurt more when it's your neighbour who's brought down? Your friend? Your brother? The guy who helped you pass math in grade 12? Your uncle? Fuck you. Plenty of Americans--the people, not the fucking government, I'm talking about the PEOPLE--care a shitload about casualties, accidents, etc. of the people from other countries. Are you so ignorant as to believe everything you see on TV as being completely accurate? Is that little 5-word summary about the feelings of every single person from the U.S. really what you would trust?

Ted, I don't know you in real life, so I'm just words on a screen to you, but for fuck's sake, Anders, that's me you're talking about. My aunt and my two uncles were unbelievably close to being part of the rubble, and you were sitting at home cheering at your fucking screen while I was wondering if my cousin was going to have to come live with me because he'd have no parents left. Thanks. Thanks a lot.

FUCK YOU.

Just because it hurts more when we lose our own doesn't mean that we don't mourn for the fallen from other countries. It's just so much easier for you to think of us that way, I suppose, but I'm sorry, that's not really who we are.

Issues with the press and their coverage I can understand; your bullshit I cannot. I'm not talking about military strategies and their brilliance, I'm talking about the reality of thousands of bodies lying in ashen remains and you two brazenly, heartlessly, sickeningly cheering for that reality.