Relations with extrasolar aliens

[speaker-to-trolls]

OK, so assume that at some point in the next hundred years we start receiving messages from an alien civilisation, pick whichever star you want provided that it's within about 30 lightyears, I don't want to get into an argument about which stars could or couldn't support life. So we start receiving messages from them, they've got some messages from us and with a great deal of research on both ends we manage to come up with something approaching a working dialogue. Now, since neither civilisation has the means or motive to actually send people to the other, the only way for the two civilisations to effect one another is going to be by radio/laser broadcast.
So, in broad terms how do you think this would effect politics/society/economics on Earth (can't predict how aliens will react, clearly)? Do you think it would effect those things at all, directly, or only through the knock-on effects of what scientists learn from the dialogue, and that once the aliens are discovered the public will forget about it after the hype has died down?

[The Romulan Republic]

Given how long it would take to get a reply, and how each message would be the next step in a lengthy first contact senario, I'd imagine that there would be renewed excitement every time a new reply was due. It would likely become a significant event, with parents telling their children about how "I remember when the last message was recieved/sent."

In terms of social and political change, religious movements would likely spring up around the aliens, and their would likely be a broad social push towards a human as opposed to national/religious/ethnic identitiy (one reason such a contact might be kept secret by those in power if possible).

In terms of technological or economic impact, it depends largely on how much the aliens are willing to give, and weather they are ahead of us. However, we're probably near the same level, since we can both comunicate across those distances but can't actually travle them. So maybe their won't be rapid gains in this area regardless. However, their might be an indirect advancement of technology due to increased support for a well-funded space program now that we know their is another civilization out their.

In the end, its hard to say. A lot depends on where the aliens are in relation to us social and technologically, what and how much information each side is willing to exchange, who makes contact and weather they try to keep it secret, and weather each new generation of political leadership on either world chooses to continue the dialouge. A lot can change in 60 years.

[Singular Intellect]

Given how long it would take to get a reply, and how each message would be the next step in a lengthy first contact senario, I'd imagine that there would be renewed excitement every time a new reply was due. It would likely become a significant event, with parents telling their children about how "I remember when the last message was recieved/sent."

That scenario would only exist if both the aliens and us are complete morons. If you have that kind if distance and waiting time, you don't wait 30 years between transmissions, you send continuous streams of information, questions and answers (answering questions as they come in) and vice versa.

[The Romulan Republic]

Given how long it would take to get a reply, and how each message would be the next step in a lengthy first contact senario, I'd imagine that there would be renewed excitement every time a new reply was due. It would likely become a significant event, with parents telling their children about how "I remember when the last message was recieved/sent."

That scenario would only exist if both the aliens and us are complete morons. If you have that kind if distance and waiting time, you don't wait 30 years between transmissions, you send continuous streams of information, questions and answers (answering questions as they come in) and vice versa.

Fair enough, though I'm also thinking of the initial contact. We hear them, they find out thirty years later, then they start the streaming.

[Samuel]

I'll make a fortune in alien plushies!

Fair enough, though I'm also thinking of the initial contact. We hear them, they find out thirty years later, then they start the streaming.

They already know we are here- they have our transmissions from the 1970s.

[Teleros]

However, their might be an indirect advancement of technology due to increased support for a well-funded space program now that we know their is another civilization out their.

Not to mention weapons - expect funding for DARPA et al to rocket, whilst various nations start planning means to both defend ourselves and attack these aliens. Even if they're perfectly friendly (or just indifferent) towards us, the world's armed forces will be drastically affected.

[Gil Hamilton]

I suppose you could attempt something like the plot of Species if you wanted to meet them face to face, but without the Alien Hybrid Sex Rampage.

[Coyote]

Paranoia would erupt worldwide, too. There'd probably develop a sort of "Nationalist" movement that was planet wide (Planetist? Earthist?) to counter "corruption from alien ideaologies" and seek out "evidence of alien meddling in the past/politics/etc".

[speaker-to-trolls]

Not to mention weapons - expect funding for DARPA et al to rocket, whilst various nations start planning means to both defend ourselves and attack these aliens. Even if they're perfectly friendly (or just indifferent) towards us, the world's armed forces will be drastically affected.

Do you think our militaries are that paranoid? I mean I specifically said there's no reasonable chance of us or the aliens being able to reach one another physically when contact is made.

I suppose you could attempt something like the plot of Species if you wanted to meet them face to face, but without the Alien Hybrid Sex Rampage.

It'd probably be more useful to try to download a reasonable facsimile of an alien personality to some kind of receptacle on Earth once such things become possible, rather than create a biological clone/hybrid.

[Junghalli]

They already know we are here- they have our transmissions from the 1970s.

Most of our commercial transmissions are either quite weak (on the scale needed for interstellar dialog) or directional.

I could see increased interest in astronomy and space exploration, now that we know that other life is out there.

[Sky Captain]

Hmm I think more interesting question would be what if we detect an incoming alien starship. Let`s say we spot the ship when it fires up it`s anti matter drive to perform a deceleration burn. We may have about a year time before ship slows down from interstellar cruise velocity and enters inner solar system. After few weeks of observation we find out that ship is not a small probe but a large multi million ton starship most likely sent to establish a colony in solar system.

Let`s assume aliens launched few hundred years ago and did not knew here already is an intelligent life. All they knew about earth was it`s capable of supporting complex life and suitable to establish a colony.

What would we do in such scenario? Would we allow them to land and set up a colony in some isolated part of the world. Or we would start panic and face massive riots and breakdown of society just after news about incoming ship spread.

[Oni Koneko Damien]

There would probably be a huge jump in optical technology as people rushed to be the first to develop a telescope or some other recording device powerful and precise enough to give us our first pictures of the aliens. Not to mention an increase in security technologyto better detect anything more 'solid' than a radio transmission being sent our way. Yeah, sure they say they don't have the technology to send anything over here. But are we going to take them at their word for it?

[Junghalli]

What would we do in such scenario? Would we allow them to land and set up a colony in some isolated part of the world. Or we would start panic and face massive riots and breakdown of society just after news about incoming ship spread.

We'd probably try to negotiate with them for something like that. They have a starship capable of c fractional speeds and the ability to throw dino-killers at us: it would be a good idea to be accomodating. And even a huge starship isn't going to be carrying that many colonists: we can give them part of the Amazon Basin or Nevada or something. Not to mention they'd probably have quite a few highly attractive trade goods to offer us in exchange for land (like immortality serums and cheap fusion reactors).

I don't think there'd be a massive breakdown of society just from something like an alien starship entering the solar system. I've never understood this idea that people are like walking cans of mayhem just waiting for the slightest touch to make them go apeshit and randomly completely trash their own civilization.

[Sky Captain]

What would we do in such scenario? Would we allow them to land and set up a colony in some isolated part of the world. Or we would start panic and face massive riots and breakdown of society just after news about incoming ship spread.

We'd probably try to negotiate with them for something like that. They have a starship capable of c fractional speeds and the ability to throw dino-killers at us: it would be a good idea to be accomodating. And even a huge starship isn't going to be carrying that many colonists: we can give them part of the Amazon Basin or Nevada or something. Not to mention they'd probably have quite a few highly attractive trade goods to offer us in exchange for land (like immortality serums and cheap fusion reactors).

That would be sensible although I can imagine all kinds of countless crazy religious movements, doomsday scenarios and the like sparkling up after the ship is first detected and confirmed it`s not some kind of freak natural phenomena. If such crazy nutcase happen to be in charge of some politically unstable country like Pakistan or Iran there can be all kinds of nasty surprises. After all there would be several month time before we know the real intentions of the aliens.

[Teleros]

Not to mention weapons - expect funding for DARPA et al to rocket, whilst various nations start planning means to both defend ourselves and attack these aliens. Even if they're perfectly friendly (or just indifferent) towards us, the world's armed forces will be drastically affected.

Do you think our militaries are that paranoid? I mean I specifically said there's no reasonable chance of us or the aliens being able to reach one another physically when contact is made.

In a word, yes. I'm reminded of that quote on the Atomic Rockets page:

Dr. Horvath, I take it you've never been involved in military intelligence? No, of course not. But you see, in intelligence work we have to go by capabilities, not by intentions. If a potential enemy can do something to you, you have to prepare for it, without regard to what you think he wants to do."

Even if you can't send a ship / missile / asteroid at the other world immediately, chances are that eventually one side or the other will. The likelihood of this rises once contact has been made, because you'd expect a renewed interest in space and space travel. In addition, even if we can't get to them, we cannot be certain that they cannot get to or, or won't be able to get to us before we can visit them, therefore we should be considering some sort of defence network to protect Earth, just in case.

What would we do in such scenario? Would we allow them to land and set up a colony in some isolated part of the world.

It would depend a lot on the scenario when we make contact. Ideally we want some nice friendly aliens we can live peaceably alongside (well, behind one hell of a security perimeter, because I for one wouldn't trust the religious nutjobs on Earth), but if not we may be able to point them in another direction at least (depends on fuel and, for example, if we can relatively easy resupply them, if they share the relevant tech with us). Worst case I suppose you'd want to get them as close by, because whilst they can chuck rocks on Earth from the asteroid belt, there's a lot less to throw around when you're in orbit.

I don't think there'd be a massive breakdown of society just from something like an alien starship entering the solar system. I've never understood this idea that people are like walking cans of mayhem just waiting for the slightest touch to make them go apeshit and randomly completely trash their own civilization.

No there wouldn't be a complete breakdown, but I'd expect some nasty riots somewhere, if only because there are lots of stupid people out there. I'd be surprised if society went and collapsed though.

[Knife]

Paranoia would erupt worldwide, too. There'd probably develop a sort of "Nationalist" movement that was planet wide (Planetist? Earthist?) to counter "corruption from alien ideaologies" and seek out "evidence of alien meddling in the past/politics/etc".

lol, chances are they'd be religious based. Damn aliens are nothing but a temptation of Satan.

[Sky Captain]

What would we do in such scenario? Would we allow them to land and set up a colony in some isolated part of the world.

It would depend a lot on the scenario when we make contact. Ideally we want some nice friendly aliens we can live peaceably alongside (well, behind one hell of a security perimeter, because I for one wouldn't trust the religious nutjobs on Earth), but if not we may be able to point them in another direction at least (depends on fuel and, for example, if we can relatively easy resupply them, if they share the relevant tech with us). Worst case I suppose you'd want to get them as close by, because whilst they can chuck rocks on Earth from the asteroid belt, there's a lot less to throw around when you're in orbit.

Simply from security standpoint it would be safer for us if they ask for some land on Earth to build their settlement for exchange of some of their technology that way they would show they want this planet intact.

If they refuse to communicate, park their starship in asteroid belt and start building space habitats there it would show us aliens are not interested in colonizing planets and nothing will prevent them from nudging a sizable asteroid on collision course just to make sure they are the only owners of solar system. In this scenario I can see world powers getting as paranoid as it`s possible to be because knowing out there is someone who's true intentions are unknown and who is easily capable of killing us while we are completely defenseless will be highly highly unnerving.