BSG 4.5: Sometimes a Great Notion - Place your bets....

[JME2]

I was too tired to post anything last night. Well, that was a heullva way to kick off the final chapter last night. After the missteps of Season 3 and my dissatisfaction with parts of Season 4.0, it looks like the saga of the RTF is back in full-form and ready to kick some ass and screw with my mind one last time...

5/5

[Crossroads Inc.]

So basically 3000 years ago, Mankind is advanced and hightech an stuff, and they build robots who they name Cylons...

HOWEVER
I have a Theory...

I am wondering if the "human Cylon" phase did NOT start with the cylons, but with the Humans... What if the Humans basically creat a Synthetic human, think about it, no disease, enhanced strength, and immortality! Whats not to like? Within a 1000 years the whole world has made this change and become what is now considered 'cylon' Then the place gets nuked, they head to the stars, and we start things going.

What does everyone else think?

[JME2]

My ex-roommate and I were speculating on that very idea last night and we both agree it's very plausible. So, we'll see if it bears out...

[Bilbo]

The only problem I see is how did the four end up in the colonies? If the flashbacks are correct then none of the 4 were anything special back on Earth 2000 years ago. Tigh appears to be some sort of minor back executive, maybe a bank manager, the rest seem to be the same.

So how did they make it to the colonies and without their memories? I can see Earth being full of humanform cylons. I can see some of them escaping the destruction via some sort of Resurrection ship technology. What I cannot see is it taking 4 random nobodies off the street.

[Skylon]

I was trying to figure out theories but there all in a jumble, so here's a partial one relating to the first Cylon war.

Somehow, there is possible a pre-determinism in this show to humans creating Cylons. Possibly due to the five living among humans for lord knows how long (being constantly reborn as we know Tigh once had hair). The Cylons rebel on the 12 colonies. They then stop the war when they realize that Cylons, namely the five, live among humans (similar to how the Raiders refused to fight the Colonials during the Nebula Battle after scanning Anders). If Tigh did indeed fight in the First Cylon war (as RDM has insisted still happened), this could have triggered it's halt...a Centurion running into Tigh and suddenly realizing "Holy shit! He's a Cylon like me!"

The Cylons leave the Colonies and develop skin-jobs, in order to be more like "the Five". The Skin-jobs however decide they are "special", and have a destiny that requires humans to be eliminated, and to deal with the hang-up of "The Five", they suppress all memory of "The Five" (this is why they don't talk about it). They launch their attack on the Colonies.

I'm thinking there needs to be some final kind of resurrection hub. Just for the five. How else could they be "reborn" as Ellen told Tigh?

[Nieztchean Uber-Amoeba]

Sadly, I expect her comment about the Cylons knowing the truth about Kobol and the "gods" will be ignored, though that's probably not what you were talking about.

Dude, you think that's all that they're going to ignore? There's still no explanation for Head-Baltar, Head-Six, the Eye of Jupiter going super-nova at the exact right time, Kara / the Eye of Jupiter / Kara dying / Kara getting teleported across the Galaxy and resurrected, a colony of Cylons apparently leaving a beacon designed to kill all Cylons (which did not kill any of the Final Five Cylons), Kobol and its role in all of this, the Hybrids and their cryptic-prophecy powers, the Resurrection Hub not being rebuilt easily, the hand-wave power-outage nebula, the activation of the Final Five, 'All of this has happened before and will happen again', the collective dreams in the Opera House... Am I forgetting something? Because I'm certain that there's more mysterious bullshit, I just can't think of it right now.

[CaptJodan]

Dude, you think that's all that they're going to ignore? There's still no explanation for Head-Baltar, Head-Six, the Eye of Jupiter going super-nova at the exact right time, Kara / the Eye of Jupiter / Kara dying / Kara getting teleported across the Galaxy and resurrected, a colony of Cylons apparently leaving a beacon designed to kill all Cylons (which did not kill any of the Final Five Cylons), Kobol and its role in all of this, the Hybrids and their cryptic-prophecy powers, the Resurrection Hub not being rebuilt easily, the hand-wave power-outage nebula, the activation of the Final Five, 'All of this has happened before and will happen again', the collective dreams in the Opera House... Am I forgetting something? Because I'm certain that there's more mysterious bullshit, I just can't think of it right now.

It really seems to me that, no matter how they try and end this, people are not going to be satisfied because they've put too many balls in the air, too many contradictions, and not enough fact to resolve it all. I thought I read at one point that even Moore said he's not offering easy explanations for all of it, probably allowing the God/Gods to take the blame for the weird shit that makes no sense.

After some time to digest this episode, I wanted to think about how I felt about it in general. In short, this episode just felt like an info dump without a lot of time for character substance. There was some, to be sure, but the implications of what they found out didn't seem to cement for long. Riots, disorder and the like didn't last for long, or wasn't shown fleet wide, addressing the Quarum was done off-screen, and what moments we did get seemed rushed. The overall impression I got was just that they were rushing to give us a bunch of info. It seemed as if we jumped from one major reveal to another, the implications of which were barely discussed. I'm assuming, though, that those implications will be addressed more fully in the coming episodes.

It's going to take more time to formulate theories, but at the moment, I'm still curious about Earth and it's role, and how a fully Cylon based Earth comes about. Given that the show looks as if it is leaving Earth Spoiler

Though in some shots of previews I thought I saw some flying around Jupiter with Vipers

, I'm not sure how those questions will be resolved. Ultimately, I'm left with this episode wanting more information, but also wanting more fleet-wide response to what has happened, and also more of the rebel-Cylon's perspective on the whole thing.

[Skylon]

After some time to digest this episode, I wanted to think about how I felt about it in general. In short, this episode just felt like an info dump without a lot of time for character substance. There was some, to be sure, but the implications of what they found out didn't seem to cement for long. Riots, disorder and the like didn't last for long, or wasn't shown fleet wide, addressing the Quarum was done off-screen, and what moments we did get seemed rushed. The overall impression I got was just that they were rushing to give us a bunch of info. It seemed as if we jumped from one major reveal to another, the implications of which were barely discussed. I'm assuming, though, that those implications will be addressed more fully in the coming episodes.

Based on the preview for next week, it looks like it will.

[Kane Starkiller]

I'm not at all impressed with the episode. The first 15 minutes were intriguing raising all sorts of questions and then when the time came to actually start answering them or at least begin to answer them it's "Hey look over there Dee just shot herself!". Yeah whatever.
Oh and could we have a spacebattle? Nothing fancy just so that I don't forget it's supposed to be about a bigass ship called BATTLESTAR Galactica.

P.S. Again there was no orbital shot establishing that this planet really was Earth. I'd guess writers themselves still haven't decided on that one.

[JLTucker]

Oh and could we have a spacebattle? Nothing fancy just so that I don't forget it's supposed to be about a bigass ship called BATTLESTAR Galactica.

There was a space battle two fucking episodes ago. You know, the episode where they destroyed the Hub.

[Johndug]

If we are going into theory land I have got a wild one:

The Gods of Kobal created Man like Man created the Cylons.

Man evidently (by the wreckage of Kobal) rises up or leaves Kobal to found the colonies. A seperate batch go to Earth.

A dark age later, the Colonies in their wars with one another create primative cylons.

Cylons rebel and Cylons begin to try to become more like their creator like Creator like man did in supplanting the Gods and becoming creators themselves.

Human Cylons emulating Man institutes the holocaust and destruction of the 12 colonies.

The events of the show happen. Man learns about is origins on Kobal and learn that maybe that they are all Cylons as there is no god to compare themselves too (Like man to Cylon) maybe they too are artificial.

The Mans refugees with their loyal children learn on Earth that maybe they all are artificial (try defining that one).

At this point perhaps they go to found another "Kobal" there are already god parallels (Athena, Apollo, etc) and it fits the cyclical nature of the show. The Gods of Kobal rulling from a metaphorical mountain, maybe the God of the Gods is the singular one of Cylon understanding or truth.

[Nieztchean Uber-Amoeba]

Oh yeah, that's another bit of un-explained bullshit: the Holo-deck of Athena.

[Gaidin]

P.S. Again there was no orbital shot establishing that this planet really was Earth. I'd guess writers themselves still haven't decided on that one.

The dialog confirming visible constellations are a match doesn't count?

[Wicked Pilot]

My S1 DVDs are out on loan so I have to ask the question: wasn't Ellen tested when she first showed up within the fleet?

[Crazedwraith]

My S1 DVDs are out on loan so I have to ask the question: wasn't Ellen tested when she first showed up within the fleet?

Yeah but she was the first one that Baltar used his 'everyone passes' policy on and he swore he'd never tell what the actual result was.

[JLTucker]

My S1 DVDs are out on loan so I have to ask the question: wasn't Ellen tested when she first showed up within the fleet?

I believe she was.However, wasn't it established that Baltar's detection method is unreliable?

[Mayabird]

a colony of Cylons apparently leaving a beacon designed to kill all Cylons (which did not kill any of the Final Five Cylons)

Actually, this one is easily explainable as an accident. They left the beacon, only they weren't as clean with it as they should have been. Apparently someone sneezed on it or something and accidentally left those germs which then started killing the Cylons. I think that was the explanation they gave.

Though why it didn't bother the Final Five and why the Colonials were all magically immune to it...yeah.

3600 and especially not 1600 years isn't long enough for it to be us, as in our civilization, assuming that the 'thirteen tribe' had come from Kobol (even ignoring the parts where we don't have super-strength and so on). If it is our Earth, it could be a rebuild civilization after recolonization. I think D'anna mentioned Mars off-handedly, though.

[Themightytom]

I knew if I came here after the show there would be a lot of people saying "WTF!"
I was very shocked by Dee. I actually turned my head away from the tv for a sec and soon as I turned back she shot herself.

This is just a thought but is it possible there is our "Earth" still out there full of humans?

Its possible, the original series had an earth wanna be called Terra. The original series had the evacuation of kobol being due to environmental pollution, this darker version was destroyed via war, with Terra in the original being on the brink of war, this version would of course be AFTER the war. On the other hand the first series didn't portray Terra as identical to Earth in terms of continents.



Dee can still make a comeback, Starbuck was apparently resurrected, unless she was already a cylon, this would be problematic. There might be a more advanced resurrection ship floating around nearby or something in the rubble of Earth. Whatever it is, we have Edward james Olmos' guarantee the ship of lights won't be in this series.

I'm not really sure, if she wasn't a cylon from the start, they will explain lee seeing her ship blow up nowhere NEAR earth, I assumed she downloaded ultra long range or something, but now there is a lot of debris and there WAS an intact body?

Also Spoiler

Duella is in the credits for most of the remaining episodesaccording to IMDB??

I'm saying WTF because all the speculation that Gaeta was a cylon hence his mini series, or whatever her name is that was introduced in Razor was the cylon just demosntrates, taht no, not plot critical, Scifi just wanted to milk the shit out of fan speculation. i ahven't felt this hoodwinked since i saw my student loan balance after graduation.

Speaking of miniseries, this means that "Face of the enemy" happens after this episode sometime, which explains why Galactica wasn't in orbit. I feel like we are about to have a dual plotline with some riding around in a van on Earth solving mysteries, and some in space, looking for where the 13th tribe allegedly went.

if the thirteenth colony was made up of "cylons", I think my question now is, who created who? Current Cylons are biological models, the Earth ones should have been capable of reproducing since there was a bazillion different models in the flashback and it didn't seem to be a problem for Tyrol to make Callie pregnant. If the difference between humans and cylons is now a biological, or genetic question, than the twelve tribes could have been created on Kobol by the cylons who originally evolved on Earth.

"All of this has happened before, all of this will happen again," was written by a survivor of the Kobol exodus which implies, not only is the current cycle a repetition, but, as the Earth holocaust hadn't happened yet, the KOBOL holocaust was a repetition as well. Something happened to Earth, survivors went to kobol, three thousand years ago Kobol went up in smoke, the thirteenth colony went to Earth and blew it up a thousand and a half years later.
So the colonials may not actually be "purebred" and if Roslin gets THAT notion in her head then suddenly she will go batty.

These cylons predate the contemporary models yet are similiar enough to be recognized with what I assume was Baltar's cylon detector perfected (I mean it DID work, he just ignored Boomer on purpose). At least a few of the Earth Cylons seem to have survived the holocaust on Earth, and gone to the colonies to rebuild themselves, except their creation turned and wiped out the colonies.

so Baltar isn't a cylon, he just has an odd affinity for them and a ghost in his shell. Wherever the Opera house is, its NOT on earth. There was never anything special about gaeta's singing, Callie, Caine and Whatserface are dead for good, Ellen PROBABLY is... and we have completely run out of mentally stable main characters (Dee and gaeta were pretty much it) barring potentially lee Adama, but he's definitely ready to ride the emotional break down Teacups.

Given the likelihood that the Earth they have found was never "our" earth (Unless there are cylons I don't know about?), I'm really wondering at this point whether this is what humanity becomes or what it was according to the writers.

[Themightytom]

wow I took so long to write that there were like five posts that covered most of what I said.
But anyway if the Earth cylons are actually the humans, and they created the colonials and lived with them, they would have passed on any illness or disease on Kobol, where there was disease and plague.... but the skinjob cylons would have been created elsewhere and may have never encountered the disease.
EDIT: and as the final five are actually just human, they would have most o the immunities colonials had, both having come from Kobol.

[Terralthra]

My S1 DVDs are out on loan so I have to ask the question: wasn't Ellen tested when she first showed up within the fleet?

I believe she was.However, wasn't it established that Baltar's detection method is unreliable?

The detection method he developed using the warhead's nuclear material worked perfectly. It detected the first cylon tested, Baltar simply concealed the results. When Ellen was found in the fleet, as stated above, she was tested, but by then Baltar was giving everyone a pass. As the episode ended, Head-Six was asking him what her test results really said, and Baltar replied "I'll never tell...."

How she appeared in the fleet after the holocaust matches what she says in Tigh's vision this episode, too, but raises the question of why she would have been resurrected at her older age to be with Tigh again. Does the system that resurrects them always match their ages precisely?

[Terralthra]

Dee can still make a comeback, Starbuck was apparently resurrected, unless she was already a cylon, this would be problematic. There might be a more advanced resurrection ship floating around nearby or something in the rubble of Earth. Whatever it is, we have Edward james Olmos' guarantee the ship of lights won't be in this series.

I'm not really sure, if she wasn't a cylon from the start, they will explain lee seeing her ship blow up nowhere NEAR earth, I assumed she downloaded ultra long range or something, but now there is a lot of debris and there WAS an intact body?

The Maelstrom her ship was sucked into could've been an unstable ER bridge (wormhole).

[CaptJodan]

The detection method he developed using the warhead's nuclear material worked perfectly. It detected the first cylon tested, Baltar simply concealed the results. When Ellen was found in the fleet, as stated above, she was tested, but by then Baltar was giving everyone a pass. As the episode ended, Head-Six was asking him what her test results really said, and Baltar replied "I'll never tell...."

I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that Baltar's method of detection, cobbled together as it was, would be be calibrated properly to detect Earth-based skinjobs. If Baltar had tested Tigh and Ellen, he would have known before most others who were trying to guess who the final 5 was. It really didn't seem to me as if he knew any of the 5, though obviously it wasn't obvious either way.

[His Divine Shadow]

-We're all Cylons. Earth was a pure Cylon colony.

I haven't seen them confirm this as Earth anywhere. Nor have I seen where it makes everyone Cylons either.

So far to me this whole episode was "gosh they are all really sad they found this planet thats not the real earth".

[Burak Gazan]

S4 episode 1, showed some recon photos that Starbuck had shot in low earth orbit, one of which if I remember correctly showed good old Luna. Plus, the episode just before this one Gaeta stated "visible constellations are a match". Plus , one of the prior visuals of the planet clearly show the Great Lakes; unless Moore is really really screwing with the viewer, this is apparently Earth

[LMSx]

-We're all Cylons. Earth was a pure Cylon colony.

I haven't seen them confirm this as Earth anywhere. Nor have I seen where it makes everyone Cylons either.

So far to me this whole episode was "gosh they are all really sad they found this planet thats not the real earth".

Link

That planet is Earth? We’re not going to find out, “Oh, there’s this other Earth over here...” This is the only Earth we’ll see?

They have found Earth. This is the Earth that the 13th Colony discovered, they christened it Earth. They found Earth.