Eframepilot wrote:Theories don't have to explain every "Why?" The Standard Model is the most precise theory ever developed, yet it makes no attempt to explain "why" it is true. It just describes what actually happens.
Which you don't do. Instead, you propose an explanation which doesn't work and dismiss its problems by simply saying that it WILL work.
That isn't what causes them to diverge. According to Many Worlds, there are two ways to look at it. 1. Every divergence where a wavefunction collapses causes separate universes to appear, each with one possible end state of the wavefunction. "Nearby" universes would have split off recently and contain many common elements (crew, relationships). This is where Worf jumps to. 2. If you don't like universes spontaneously appearing, we could assume that a near-infinite number of universes started out at the beginning of time and develop from there. Worf jumps to the nearby ones, which have diverge the least.
And this is more realistic than parallel timelines ... how? Particularly since "Many Worlds" is based on a MISINTERPRETATION of QM? Why are the divergences not much larger? Why aren't they running into universes which bear no resemblance whatsoever to their own? What kind of coincidence is required to accidentally jump into the universes that happen to be almost identical to their own?
It's easy to explain with time-travel; after all, they've been polluting the timeframe around their period in history with time travel for some time, hence most of the diversions seem to occur within a few centuries of the development of time travel. But under your theory, we must again resort to MASSIVE COINCIDENCE
Oh really? Then why didn't they diverge before the intrusion, huh? Even assuming a gazillion identical universes just waiting to be jumped to and altered, time travel fails completely to explain the similarities. Consider: On every Enterprise Worf jumps to, he is examining the Argolis Array or something near Cardassian space. Near the end, he jumps and bam! the Cardassian Empire is replaced by the Bajoran Empire. Yet even after this HUGE historical change, Worf is still on the Enterprise, checking the same sensor array, and as in the previous reality, still married to Counselor Troi! What the fuck?! A much better theory is that there are a near-infinite number of universes and Worf just visits (and contacts via the weird rift at the end) the "nearby" ones, where he is in a similar situation.
Oh, so timeline similarity is like geographic proximity now? Don't be ridiculous; now you're adding yet
another magical mystery element in order to avoid the most obvious explanation.
And while we're examining diverging universes, let's look at the Mirror Universe. After diverging who knows how far back, the Mirror Universe contains evil doubles of nearly everyone on Kirk's Enterprise. What a coincidence! And 100 years later, after Kirk's interference changed things even more, there are STILL completely identical people in the Mirror Universe! Tell me, how in HELL does your theory explain this?
How does yours? You can't explain the marginally divergent universes with anything but giant coincidence or even more laughably, your assumption that accidents are somehow deterministically driven to go to similar timelines out of near-infinite possibilities. So you look for something which neither of us can explain and act as though it supports your theory by default. Have you been studying the Darkstar playbook?
These parallel universes have nothing to do with time travel. They're just there. In fact, outside of "Parallels", which could be just a delusion of Worf caused by technobabble, there is only the Mirror Universe. And we know how fucked up that is.
Ah, so now it's just a delusion of Worf, eh? In other words, you're trying to simply dismiss the whole thing. Concession accepted.
BTW, I love the way you mock when we point out that the entire Krenim timeship plot technically didn't happen (at least, not in the timeline they're in now), but then you turn around and dismiss "Parallels" as a delusion of Worf. At least someone's walking about with a memory of it. That's one up on the Krenim timeship already.
The "many worlds" theory has nothing to do with my theory. It just explains "Parallels". Time travel is a separate phenomenon.
Since the "many worlds" theory doesn't work, you have just conceded that you cannot explain "Parallels" at all. You lose.
Suspension of disbelief does not necessitate suspension of intelligence.
It does, alas, in Star Trek. Or else your brain will explode. You still haven't answered how you explain the Universal Translator.
The same way I explain Chang speaking English in ST6 even though he's supposedly speaking Klingon and Kirk is listening to his UT. It's translated for our benefit. If you want to suspend disbelief, just say that it's a smooth dubbing job with the lips CGI'd to fit the words.
You may prefer to suspend your brain (which would explain many of your arguments in this thread), but don't project that attitude onto the rest of us.
Welcome to logical hell. Thoughts and actions are relevant. We see predestination paradoxes occur. Sometimes people break out of them by taking specific actions. ("Time and Again","Future's End") Your theory does not allow predestination paradoxes to plausibly occur; each "cycle" through would involve a jump to a new universe where the SAME DAMN THING HAPPENS. Infinitely many times. Data's head ends up blown off and lying under San Francisco for 500 years infinitely many times.
Explain why my theory necessarily forces itself into an endless loop. You seem bound and determined to act as though my theory generates all manner of bad predictions without showing why or how. Why would the same thing necessarily happen in a new timeline, as opposed to leaping around in the existing one and ignoring paradoxes?
Indeed, the predestination paradox is NOT a paradox in my theory. The predestination paradox is that you must take an action in the future in order to set up the situation that will cause you to take that action. A good example is Kyle in "The Terminator" (not ST, but this is a thought experiment). In your scheme, he goes back in time to set up the chain of events which make it possible for him to go back in time. It is a closed loop, and a predestination paradox. In my scheme, he jumps back in time to set up a chain of events which lead to some slightly different outcome. In his own universe, John Connor was fathered by someone else. But in the new timeline, he is the father of John Connor, who naturally doesn't grow up to look like the John Connor he remembered from his own native timeline. No paradox.
In short, you are stuck with all manner of paradoxes, I'm not. Yet you insist your theory is superior ... why?
Theories cannot answer the "whys". But perhaps you are right. I have at least developed a model that describes what happens, while your theory includes the nonsensical parallel universes in contradiction to all characters' evaluations of time travel.
Neat rhetorical trick, acting as though a theory need not explain
how things happen by pointing out that it need not explain
why things happen. There's a difference; theories DO, in fact, have to explain how things happen, or they're no damned good. Your theory explains nothing; it simply states that you have a preferred interpretation of events and that's it. Paradoxes and unsolvable problems are dismissed with a wave of the hand, and an alternate theory is dismissed as "nonsensical parallel universes" even though we've SEEN these fucking "nonsensical parallel universes" on the show.
The oh so wacky "many worlds" theory relies on no coincidences at all. Your theory fails to explain why Worf's universes should be so similar, especially the final Bajoran Empire one.
Bullshit. A divergent timeline from a recent point of intrusion explains the very marginally divergent timelines. Random infinite universes with random points of divergence do not.
This is exactly like debating Darkstar; you're basically declaring that your theory explains everything even though you can't explain how, and you get upset when I ask you to explain how. Then you look for things that neither theory can explain easily and act as though they destroy my theory but not yours. Pathetic.
) and blasting Theed from orbit years before Palpatine is elected Supreme Chancellor, just declare time travel to be a cheap, stupid cop-out that is forbidden by the Temporal Prime Directive anyway and ignore it a la superbeing intervention.
Plus there's always the Future Feds.
I've been here before, under this account, debating this same subject, racking up enough posts to be a Youngling. Plus I'm really DarkStar, TOWNMNBS, and that fucktard Arminius at the same damn time.
NO! Put... the phaser... DOWN! Anyway, in "Time and Again" Janeway is trapped in a predestination loop. On one iteration, she stops the loop and breaks out of it. The entire chain of events vanishes in a flash. The episode ends with Voyager passing by the planet in question and never visiting it. Only Kes remembers anything, proving that it, uh, "happened." Sorta.
You predicted my argument almost exactly. Congratulations. I expect your next post will compare me further to Darkstar and restate your argument, while making slights about my character and/or intelligence. But that's OK. I deserve it for wasting so much time here. We've reached an impasse. Nothing we say will sway our personal opinions or anyone else's here. Quite frankly I don't think Star Trek or Wars should be scientifically analyzed when neither are, well, REAL, let alone internally consistent. (shades of Gothmog?) So, by the rules of debate on which this site is built, your theory wins. 
