Bush's Legacy aka "Quickly to the Revisionism-mobile!"

N&P: Discuss governments, nations, politics and recent related news here.

Moderators: Alyrium Denryle, Edi, K. A. Pital

weemadando
SMAKIBBFB
Posts: 19195
Joined: 2002-07-28 12:30pm
Contact:

Bush's Legacy aka "Quickly to the Revisionism-mobile!"

Post by weemadando »

My favourite part? Where he tells everyone to shut up about the current Iraq war, because less Iraqi's have died in it that in the Iran/Iraq war. Which means that it's all fine. Oh and there were less UK casualties in the GWOT than over several days in WW1, so what are these damn lefties complaining about?

The other big hit? That Abu Ghraib will be remembered in a positive light because Bush made sure that the guilty were punished. Fucking hell - and it took me a few readings of the relevant passage to convince me that he wasn't talking about the detainees being held there, but the guards and others who were implicated in the abuse.

Seriously, it's like he's dug halfway to China just to set the bar low enough that his points can scrape over. I am amazed that this jerk even got a column published in The Australian, after all he is a racist, apartheid supporting half-wit.
The Australian wrote: History fairer to Bush

Andrew Roberts | January 20, 2009
Article from: The Australian

THE American lady who called to see if I would appear on her radio program was specific. "We're setting up a debate," she said sweetly, "and we want to know from your perspective as a historian whether George W. Bush was the worst president of the past century, or might he be the worst president in American history?"

"I think he's a good president," I told her, which seemed to dumbfound her and wreck my chances of appearing on her show.

In the avalanche of abuse and ridicule that we are witnessing in the media assessments of Bush's legacy, there are factors that need to be borne in mind if we are to come to a judgment that is not warped by the kind of partisan hysteria that has characterised this issue on both sides of the Atlantic.

The first is that history, by looking at the key facts rather than being distracted by the loud ambient noise of the 24-hour news cycle, will probably hand down a far more positive judgment on Bush's presidency than the immediate, knee-jerk loathing of the American and European elites.

At the time of September 11, which will forever rightly be regarded as the defining moment of the presidency, history will look in vain for anyone predicting that the Americans murdered that day would be the last ones to die at the hands of Islamic fundamentalist terrorists in the US from that day tothis.

The decisions taken by Bush in the immediate aftermath of that ghastly moment will be pored over by historians for the rest of our lifetimes. One thing they will doubtless conclude is that the measures he took to lock down America's borders, scrutinise travellers to and from the US, eavesdrop on terrorist suspects, work closely with international intelligence agencies and take the war to the enemy has foiled dozens, perhaps scores, of would-be murderous attacks on America. There are Americans alive today who would not be but for the passage of the Patriot Act. There are 3000 people who would have died in the August 2005 airliner conspiracy if it had not been for the superb inter-agency co-operation demanded by Bush after September 11.

The next factor that will be seen in its proper historical context in years to come will be the true reasons for invading Afghanistan in October 2001 and Iraq in April 2003.

The conspiracy theories believed by many (generally, but not always) stupid people - that it was "all about oil", or the securing of contracts for the US-based Halliburton corporation, and so on - will slip into the obscurity from which they should never have emerged had it not been for comedian filmmakers such as Michael Moore.

Instead, the obvious fact that there was a good case for invading Iraq based on 14 spurned UN resolutions, massive human rights abuses and unfinished business following the interrupted invasion of 1991 will be recalled.

Similarly, the cold light of history will absolve Bush of the worst conspiracy theory accusation: that he knew there were no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. History will show that, in common with the rest of his administration, the British government, Saddam Hussein's own generals, the French, Chinese, Israeli and Russian intelligence agencies, and of course the Secret Intelligence Service and the CIA, everyone assumed that a murderous dictator does not voluntarily destroy the WMD arsenal he has used against his own people. And if he does, he does not then expel the UN weapons inspectorate looking for proof of it, as he did in 1998 and again in 2001.

Bush assumed that the coalition forces would find mass graves, torture chambers, evidence for the gross abuse of the UN's food-for-oil program, but also WMDs. He was right about each but the last, and history will place him in the mainstream of Western, Eastern and Arab thinking on the matter.

History will probably, assuming it is researched and written objectively, congratulate Bush on the fact that whereas in 2000 Libya was an active and vicious member of what he was accurately to describe as an "axis of evil" of rogue states willing to employ terrorism to gain its ends, four years later Muammar Gaddafi's WMD program was sitting behind glass in a museum in Oakridge, Tennessee. With his characteristic openness and at times almost self-defeating honesty, Bush has been the first to acknowledge his mistakes - for example, tardiness over Hurricane Katrina - but there are some he made not because he was a ranting right-winger, but because he was too keen to win bipartisan support.

The invasion of Iraq should probably have taken place months earlier, but was held up by the attempt to find support from UN Security Council members, such as Jacques Chirac's France, that had ties to Iraq and hostility towards the Anglo-Americans.

History will also take Bush's verbal fumbling into account, reminding us that Ronald Reagan also misspoke regularly, but was still a fine president. The first MBA president, who had a higher grade-point average at Yale than John Kerry, Bush's supposed lack of intellect will be seen to be a myth once the papers in his presidential library in the Southern Methodist University in Dallas are available.

Films such as Oliver Stone's W, which portray him as a spitting, oafish frat boy who eats with his mouth open and is rude to servants, will be revealed by the diaries and correspondence of those around him to be absurd travesties of this charming, interesting, beautifully mannered history buff who, were he not the most powerful man in the world, would be a fine person to have as a pal.

Instead of Al Franken, history will listen to Bob Geldof praising Bush's efforts over AIDS and malaria in Africa; or to Manmohan Singh, the Prime Minister of India, who told him last week: "The people of India deeply love you." And certainly to the women of Afghanistan thanking him for saving them from Taliban abuse, degradation and tyranny.

When Abu Ghraib is mentioned, history will remind us that it was the Bush administration that imprisoned those responsible for the horrors. When water-boarding is brought up, we will see that it was used on only three suspects, one of whom was Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, al-Qa'ida's chief of operational planning, who divulged vast amounts of information that saved hundreds of innocent lives. When extraordinary renditions are queried, historians will ask how else the world's most dangerous terrorists should have been transported. On scheduled flights?

The credit crunch, brought on by the Democrats in Congress insisting on home ownership for non-creditworthy people, will initially be blamed on Bush, but the perspective of time will show that the problems at Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac started with the deregulation of the Clinton era. Instead, Bush's very un-ideological but vast rescue package of $US700 billion ($1 trillion) might well be seen as lessening the impact of the squeeze and putting America in position to be the first country out of recession, helped along by his huge tax-cut packages since 2000.

Sneered at for being simplistic in his reaction to September 11, Bush's visceral responses to the attacks of a fascistic, totalitarian death cult will be seen as having been substantially the right ones.

Mistakes are made in every war, but when virtually the entire military, diplomatic and political establishment in the West opposed it, Bush insisted on the surge in Iraq that has been seen to have brought the war around, and set Iraq on the right path. Today its gross domestic product is 30 per cent higher than under Saddam, and it is free of a brutal dictator and his rapist sons.

The number of US troops killed during the eight years of the war against terror has been fewer than those slain capturing two islands in World War II, and Britain has lost fewer soldiers than on a normal weekend on the Western Front. As for civilians, there have been fewer Iraqis killed since the invasion than in 20 conflicts since World War II.

Iraq has been a victory for the US-led coalition, a fact that the Bush-haters will have to deal with when perspective finally, perhaps years from now, lends objectivity to this fine man's record.

Andrew Roberts's Masters and Commanders: How Roosevelt, Churchill, Marshall and Alanbrooke Won the War in the West is published by Penguin.
User avatar
thejester
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 1811
Joined: 2005-06-10 07:16pm
Location: Richard Nixon's Secret Tapes Club Band

Re: Bush's Legacy aka "Quickly to the Revisionism-mobile!"

Post by thejester »

Man, the Aus utterly confirmed its reputation as the toerag of journalism in this continent in the last week or so. They did back to back editorials trying to defend Bush's legacy - 'a man with great principles who just couldn't communicate them properly', or some shit, followed up with 'defender of democracy WHICH MAKES HIM BETTER THAN LEFTIES'.

You're right in that it didn't take very long. I mean, at least people waited a while before they rehabilitated Nixon.
Image
I love the smell of September in the morning. Once we got off at Richmond, walked up to the 'G, and there was no game on. Not one footballer in sight. But that cut grass smell, spring rain...it smelt like victory.

Dynamic. When [Kuznetsov] decided he was going to make a difference, he did it...Like Ovechkin...then you find out - he's with Washington too? You're kidding.
- Ron Wilson
User avatar
K. A. Pital
Glamorous Commie
Posts: 20813
Joined: 2003-02-26 11:39am
Location: Elysium

Re: Bush's Legacy aka "Quickly to the Revisionism-mobile!"

Post by K. A. Pital »

"History will be kind to me for I intend to write it".
Lì ci sono chiese, macerie, moschee e questure, lì frontiere, prezzi inaccessibile e freddure
Lì paludi, minacce, cecchini coi fucili, documenti, file notturne e clandestini
Qui incontri, lotte, passi sincronizzati, colori, capannelli non autorizzati,
Uccelli migratori, reti, informazioni, piazze di Tutti i like pazze di passioni...

...La tranquillità è importante ma la libertà è tutto!
Assalti Frontali
User avatar
Fingolfin_Noldor
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 11834
Joined: 2006-05-15 10:36am
Location: At the Helm of the HAB Star Dreadnaught Star Fist

Re: Bush's Legacy aka "Quickly to the Revisionism-mobile!"

Post by Fingolfin_Noldor »

Is it just me, or do some Australians secretly aspire to be a strong nation like America? Small nation having big nation dreams?
Image
STGOD: Byzantine Empire
Your spirit, diseased as it is, refuses to allow you to give up, no matter what threats you face... and whatever wreckage you leave behind you.
Kreia
User avatar
thejester
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 1811
Joined: 2005-06-10 07:16pm
Location: Richard Nixon's Secret Tapes Club Band

Re: Bush's Legacy aka "Quickly to the Revisionism-mobile!"

Post by thejester »

Andrew Roberts is a Pom.

And for further information about how big a cock he is: Andrew Roberts Watch.
Image
I love the smell of September in the morning. Once we got off at Richmond, walked up to the 'G, and there was no game on. Not one footballer in sight. But that cut grass smell, spring rain...it smelt like victory.

Dynamic. When [Kuznetsov] decided he was going to make a difference, he did it...Like Ovechkin...then you find out - he's with Washington too? You're kidding.
- Ron Wilson
User avatar
Edi
Dragonlord
Dragonlord
Posts: 12461
Joined: 2002-07-11 12:27am
Location: Helsinki, Finland

Re: Bush's Legacy aka "Quickly to the Revisionism-mobile!"

Post by Edi »

thejester wrote:Andrew Roberts is a whinging Pom ;).
Fixed that for you.

All in all, Ando's assessment of that piece of drivel was overly positive. These shitmunchers seem to live in a world completely inside their own heads that bear no resemblance whatsoever to reality. I suppose Roberts and his ilk will try to set the foundation for whitewashing the Bush presidency so they can later try to paint objective historians as radical leftists or something for not agreeing with their glowing assessment.
Warwolf Urban Combat Specialist

Why is it so goddamned hard to get little assholes like you to admit it when you fuck up? Is it pride? What gives you the right to have any pride?
–Darth Wong to vivftp

GOP message? Why don't they just come out of the closet: FASCISTS R' US –Patrick Degan

The GOP has a problem with anyone coming out of the closet. –18-till-I-die
User avatar
Teleros
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 1544
Joined: 2006-03-31 02:11pm
Location: Ultra Prime, Klovia
Contact:

Re: Bush's Legacy aka "Quickly to the Revisionism-mobile!"

Post by Teleros »

Also appeared in the Daily Telegraph. Reading these replies though, I do wonder about this line:
The first is that history, by looking at the key facts rather than being distracted by the loud ambient noise of the 24-hour news cycle, will probably hand down a far more positive judgment on Bush's presidency than the immediate, knee-jerk loathing of the American and European elites.
Granted the guy's hardly a neutral observer, but I do wonder to what extent he's right (or will be right), particularly on this point.
User avatar
The Guid
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 1888
Joined: 2005-04-05 10:22pm
Location: Northamptonshire, UK

Re: Bush's Legacy aka "Quickly to the Revisionism-mobile!"

Post by The Guid »

For my part leaders of countries tend to be judged mostly on foreign policy. If somehow Iraq does become the "stable democracy" the world hopes for then Bush may well be considered someone who was perhaps lucky or "had the right intuition" or something like that. I suspect that the middle east will continue to be a crisis area and Bush will be thought of like Lydon B. Johnson as someone who escalated a conflict without many positive benefits. Bush doesn't have Johnson's positive attributes in domestic policy to soften his image however, and thus may well be thought of as worse, and the global economic crisis won't help.

Johnson & Hoover in one I'd guess. So I'd say that even with the "ambient noise" gone he'll be treated badly - even if we were to assume for sake of argument that he was right.
Self declared winner of The Posedown Thread
EBC - "What? What?" "Tally Ho!" Division
I wrote this:The British Avengers fanfiction

"Yeah, funny how that works - you giving hungry people food they vote for you. You give homeless people shelter they vote for you. You give the unemployed a job they vote for you.

Maybe if the conservative ideology put a roof overhead, food on the table, and employed the downtrodden the poor folk would be all for it, too". - Broomstick
User avatar
ray245
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 7956
Joined: 2005-06-10 11:30pm

Re: Bush's Legacy aka "Quickly to the Revisionism-mobile!"

Post by ray245 »

What about Bush's actions in Africa? I've heard he was applauded for his efforts
Humans are such funny creatures. We are selfish about selflessness, yet we can love something so much that we can hate something.
User avatar
Edi
Dragonlord
Dragonlord
Posts: 12461
Joined: 2002-07-11 12:27am
Location: Helsinki, Finland

Re: Bush's Legacy aka "Quickly to the Revisionism-mobile!"

Post by Edi »

ray245 wrote:What about Bush's actions in Africa? I've heard he was applauded for his efforts
Been discussed in other threads. Use the fucking search function. We're not your personal googlebots.
Warwolf Urban Combat Specialist

Why is it so goddamned hard to get little assholes like you to admit it when you fuck up? Is it pride? What gives you the right to have any pride?
–Darth Wong to vivftp

GOP message? Why don't they just come out of the closet: FASCISTS R' US –Patrick Degan

The GOP has a problem with anyone coming out of the closet. –18-till-I-die
User avatar
ray245
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 7956
Joined: 2005-06-10 11:30pm

Re: Bush's Legacy aka "Quickly to the Revisionism-mobile!"

Post by ray245 »

Edi wrote:
ray245 wrote:What about Bush's actions in Africa? I've heard he was applauded for his efforts
Been discussed in other threads. Use the fucking search function. We're not your personal googlebots.
I know it has been discussed in other threads, although I don't know why is such a comment not relevant to this thread. :?

I'm not asking you guys to search it for me, by the way.

Many people are already leaping to say Bush is not a bad president due to his actions in Africa and etc, and said he should be judged by the benefit he has brought to the world, not by the negative actions he has done.
Humans are such funny creatures. We are selfish about selflessness, yet we can love something so much that we can hate something.
User avatar
Edi
Dragonlord
Dragonlord
Posts: 12461
Joined: 2002-07-11 12:27am
Location: Helsinki, Finland

Re: Bush's Legacy aka "Quickly to the Revisionism-mobile!"

Post by Edi »

ray245 wrote:Many people are already leaping to say Bush is not a bad president due to his actions in Africa and etc, and said he should be judged by the benefit he has brought to the world, not by the negative actions he has done.
That's the stupidest kind of black and white fallacy there is. He should be judged on both the negative things he did and the positove things he did. The negative far outweighs the positive. Yes, he increased aid to Africa. Yes, that did help some, but didn't help at all in other ways because it was tied to restrictions that prevented a more beneficial targeting of the aid. So should all of that erase the damage he did in the Middle East and elsewhere, the slide into global economical turbulence and all the other shit from consideration?

NO.

The morons you're paraphrasing are merely apologists. Do you even think before you post?
Warwolf Urban Combat Specialist

Why is it so goddamned hard to get little assholes like you to admit it when you fuck up? Is it pride? What gives you the right to have any pride?
–Darth Wong to vivftp

GOP message? Why don't they just come out of the closet: FASCISTS R' US –Patrick Degan

The GOP has a problem with anyone coming out of the closet. –18-till-I-die
User avatar
K. A. Pital
Glamorous Commie
Posts: 20813
Joined: 2003-02-26 11:39am
Location: Elysium

Re: Bush's Legacy aka "Quickly to the Revisionism-mobile!"

Post by K. A. Pital »

And "loathing" of Bush in the media? I didn't see much here. He was simly said "farewell" to as some sort of massive trainwreck. The ME though would really hate his guts.
Lì ci sono chiese, macerie, moschee e questure, lì frontiere, prezzi inaccessibile e freddure
Lì paludi, minacce, cecchini coi fucili, documenti, file notturne e clandestini
Qui incontri, lotte, passi sincronizzati, colori, capannelli non autorizzati,
Uccelli migratori, reti, informazioni, piazze di Tutti i like pazze di passioni...

...La tranquillità è importante ma la libertà è tutto!
Assalti Frontali
User avatar
The Guid
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 1888
Joined: 2005-04-05 10:22pm
Location: Northamptonshire, UK

Re: Bush's Legacy aka "Quickly to the Revisionism-mobile!"

Post by The Guid »

If aid to Africa hadn't been tied to these nonsense abstinence only programs the benefits could have been multiplied many times over. The only person responsible for that situation is him.
Self declared winner of The Posedown Thread
EBC - "What? What?" "Tally Ho!" Division
I wrote this:The British Avengers fanfiction

"Yeah, funny how that works - you giving hungry people food they vote for you. You give homeless people shelter they vote for you. You give the unemployed a job they vote for you.

Maybe if the conservative ideology put a roof overhead, food on the table, and employed the downtrodden the poor folk would be all for it, too". - Broomstick
User avatar
ray245
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 7956
Joined: 2005-06-10 11:30pm

Re: Bush's Legacy aka "Quickly to the Revisionism-mobile!"

Post by ray245 »

Edi wrote:
ray245 wrote:Many people are already leaping to say Bush is not a bad president due to his actions in Africa and etc, and said he should be judged by the benefit he has brought to the world, not by the negative actions he has done.
That's the stupidest kind of black and white fallacy there is. He should be judged on both the negative things he did and the positove things he did. The negative far outweighs the positive. Yes, he increased aid to Africa. Yes, that did help some, but didn't help at all in other ways because it was tied to restrictions that prevented a more beneficial targeting of the aid. So should all of that erase the damage he did in the Middle East and elsewhere, the slide into global economical turbulence and all the other shit from consideration?

NO.

The morons you're paraphrasing are merely apologists. Do you even think before you post?
I know they are apologist. I'm just pointing out that there are around that's all.

:D Come to think of it, why am I stating the obvious? :?
Humans are such funny creatures. We are selfish about selflessness, yet we can love something so much that we can hate something.
User avatar
Crossroads Inc.
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 9233
Joined: 2005-03-20 06:26pm
Location: Defending Sparkeling Bishonen
Contact:

Re: Bush's Legacy aka "Quickly to the Revisionism-mobile!"

Post by Crossroads Inc. »

This part made me chuckle:
The credit crunch, brought on by the Democrats in Congress insisting on home ownership for non-creditworthy people, will initially be blamed on Bush, but the perspective of time will show that the problems at Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac started with the deregulation of the Clinton era.
Really?
It was the DEMOCRATS who deregulated the crap out of banks and the markets till the whole thing collapsed? News to me!
Praying is another way of doing nothing helpful
"Congratulations, you get a cookie. You almost got a fundamental English word correct." Pick
"Outlaw star has spaceships that punch eachother" Joviwan
Read "Tales From The Crossroads"!
Read "One Wrong Turn"!
User avatar
Zac Naloen
Sith Acolyte
Posts: 5488
Joined: 2003-07-24 04:32pm
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Bush's Legacy aka "Quickly to the Revisionism-mobile!"

Post by Zac Naloen »

I keep hearing that it was Clinton who wanted "everyone in a home" or something.
Image
Member of the Unremarkables
Just because you're god, it doesn't mean you can treat people that way : - My girlfriend
Evil Brit Conspiracy - Insignificant guy
User avatar
Morilore
Jedi Master
Posts: 1202
Joined: 2004-07-03 01:02am
Location: On a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.

Re: Bush's Legacy aka "Quickly to the Revisionism-mobile!"

Post by Morilore »

When extraordinary renditions are queried, historians will ask how else the world's most dangerous terrorists should have been transported. On scheduled flights?
:lol: Be more careful to aim the point next time guys, that went way over the target's head.

I wonder if some people who defend Bush are so stupid they honestly don't comprehend his critics' charges.
The credit crunch, brought on by the Democrats in Congress insisting on home ownership for non-creditworthy people, will initially be blamed on Bush, but the perspective of time will show that the problems at Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac started with the deregulation of the Clinton era.
Ah yes, the old "All bad economic developments are the result of the last president" canard.
"Guys, don't do that"
User avatar
SirNitram
Rest in Peace, Black Mage
Posts: 28367
Joined: 2002-07-03 04:48pm
Location: Somewhere between nowhere and everywhere

Re: Bush's Legacy aka "Quickly to the Revisionism-mobile!"

Post by SirNitram »

Many people are already leaping to say Bush is not a bad president due to his actions in Africa and etc,
I would recommend familiarizing yourself with condom myths spread by abstinence-onlys in Africa, the Global Gag Rule which forbids groups funded by the US from saying anything positive about contraception, and studies regarding the effectiveness of abstinence-only education.

While you try and get a vague idea what you're talking about, I present one of the men funded to teach abstinence only sex ed by the government.

Link
We currently spend $1.5 billion a year to fund abstinence-only-until-marriage sex education in our public schools. And yes, that money goes to people like Derek Dye, as he is employed by the Elizabeth New Life Center that received an $800,000 CBAE grant in 2007 to promote abstinence until marriage. His qualifications? A “Bachelor of Fun Arts” from Barnum Bailey Clown College, and an abstinence educator certification that can be purchased for $50.
Manic Progressive: A liberal who violently swings from anger at politicos to despondency over them.

Out Of Context theatre: Ron Paul has repeatedly said he's not a racist. - Destructinator XIII on why Ron Paul isn't racist.

Shadowy Overlord - BMs/Black Mage Monkey - BOTM/Jetfire - Cybertron's Finest/General Miscreant/ASVS/Supermoderator Emeritus

Debator Classification: Trollhunter
User avatar
Glocksman
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 7233
Joined: 2002-09-03 06:43pm
Location: Mr. Five by Five

Re: Bush's Legacy aka "Quickly to the Revisionism-mobile!"

Post by Glocksman »

Crossroads Inc. wrote:This part made me chuckle:
The credit crunch, brought on by the Democrats in Congress insisting on home ownership for non-creditworthy people, will initially be blamed on Bush, but the perspective of time will show that the problems at Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac started with the deregulation of the Clinton era.
Really?
It was the DEMOCRATS who deregulated the crap out of banks and the markets till the whole thing collapsed? News to me!
Wow.

Talk about floating red herrings and throwing up smoke to cloud the issue.
Sure, there are some Democrats who bear blame for Fannie/Freddie.

Too bad that the FM's are just a drop in the fucking tanker trailer when it comes to figuring out just who's to blame for the shit.
Personally I believe this crisis has a father, and it's neither Bill Clinton nor George Bush.

It's 'Foreclosure Phil' Gramm, with help from his allies in both parties who actually believed the Randian and Friedman bullshit about 'free markets'.
"You say that it is your custom to burn widows. Very well. We also have a custom: when men burn a woman alive, we tie a rope around their necks and we hang them. Build your funeral pyre; beside it, my carpenters will build a gallows. You may follow your custom. And then we will follow ours."- General Sir Charles Napier

Oderint dum metuant
User avatar
Sea Skimmer
Yankee Capitalist Air Pirate
Posts: 37390
Joined: 2002-07-03 11:49pm
Location: Passchendaele City, HAB

Re: Bush's Legacy aka "Quickly to the Revisionism-mobile!"

Post by Sea Skimmer »

In the long run I think history won’t write that badly about Bush, but only because much worse stuff is going to happen in the next fifty years.
"This cult of special forces is as sensible as to form a Royal Corps of Tree Climbers and say that no soldier who does not wear its green hat with a bunch of oak leaves stuck in it should be expected to climb a tree"
— Field Marshal William Slim 1956
User avatar
Darth Wong
Sith Lord
Sith Lord
Posts: 70028
Joined: 2002-07-03 12:25am
Location: Toronto, Canada
Contact:

Re: Bush's Legacy aka "Quickly to the Revisionism-mobile!"

Post by Darth Wong »

Glocksman wrote:Personally I believe this crisis has a father, and it's neither Bill Clinton nor George Bush.

It's 'Foreclosure Phil' Gramm, with help from his allies in both parties who actually believed the Randian and Friedman bullshit about 'free markets'.
I actually lay the blame more at the feet of Ronald Reagan, who became a sort of Messiah for the unregulated free-market movement, as well as the trickle-down economic theory. Phil Gramm may have worshipped at the altar of unregulated markets and trickle-down economics, but Reagan built it.
Image
"It's not evil for God to do it. Or for someone to do it at God's command."- Jonathan Boyd on baby-killing

"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC

"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness

"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.

http://www.stardestroyer.net/Mike/RantMode/Blurbs.html
User avatar
Illuminatus Primus
All Seeing Eye
Posts: 15774
Joined: 2002-10-12 02:52pm
Location: Gainesville, Florida, USA
Contact:

Re: Bush's Legacy aka "Quickly to the Revisionism-mobile!"

Post by Illuminatus Primus »

Sea Skimmer wrote:In the long run I think history won’t write that badly about Bush, but only because much worse stuff is going to happen in the next fifty years.
Like what?
"You know what the problem with Hollywood is. They make shit. Unbelievable. Unremarkable. Shit." - Gabriel Shear, Swordfish

"This statement, in its utterly clueless hubristic stupidity, cannot be improved upon. I merely quote it in admiration of its perfection." - Garibaldi in reply to an incredibly stupid post.

The Fifth Illuminatus Primus | Warsie | Skeptical Empiricist | Florida Gator | Sustainability Advocate | Libertarian Socialist |
Image
User avatar
GrandMasterTerwynn
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 6787
Joined: 2002-07-29 06:14pm
Location: Somewhere on Earth.

Re: Bush's Legacy aka "Quickly to the Revisionism-mobile!"

Post by GrandMasterTerwynn »

Illuminatus Primus wrote:
Sea Skimmer wrote:In the long run I think history won’t write that badly about Bush, but only because much worse stuff is going to happen in the next fifty years.
Like what?
Presumably Peak Fossil Fuels will really begin to make itself felt, and some future President might choose to ignore the lesson of Bush and engage in an even more spectacular clusterfuck in the ME as a result. New Orleans might sink into the Gulf of Mexico, and climate change will diminish the output from the nation's breadbasket, not to mention screw over most people living in the Sun Belt. At some point, the California megacities might experience the long-expected Big One. The deeply religious conservatives could outbreed the secularists, as some have predicted, and the historians of the following generations will decree the Bush Administration to be the best thing to have happened to humanity short of the Second Coming of Jesus.
User avatar
The Guid
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 1888
Joined: 2005-04-05 10:22pm
Location: Northamptonshire, UK

Re: Bush's Legacy aka "Quickly to the Revisionism-mobile!"

Post by The Guid »

The credit crunch, brought on by the Democrats in Congress insisting on home ownership for non-creditworthy people, will initially be blamed on Bush, but the perspective of time will show that the problems at Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac started with the deregulation of the Clinton era.
Ah that's some rather sneaky little wording there. The Democrats did insist on home ownership for ethnic minorities who of course are not worthy of housing. The deregulation was also going on in the Clinton era, but put forward by a Republican congress. The way its phrased you'd think deregulation was a Democrat idea which is patently false.

Of course the crisis was completely to do with the first domino in the chain, that of mortgages, not of the massive domino chain that was set up by wheeler dealer bastards making so much money based off these valueless "structured investment vehicles" that depended a huge amount on these mortgages.
Self declared winner of The Posedown Thread
EBC - "What? What?" "Tally Ho!" Division
I wrote this:The British Avengers fanfiction

"Yeah, funny how that works - you giving hungry people food they vote for you. You give homeless people shelter they vote for you. You give the unemployed a job they vote for you.

Maybe if the conservative ideology put a roof overhead, food on the table, and employed the downtrodden the poor folk would be all for it, too". - Broomstick
Post Reply