Looking for Science Fiction

[Hotfoot]

Here is what I am not looking for:

-No or very limited "Supertech" FTL/Energy Shields/Agrav, okay, super bullshit nanotech is not. This ties in with #3.
-No magic. Call it telepaths, call it whatever, I don't want it.
-No Deus Ex Machinas. Please, I've seen enough.
-No Honor Harrington. Not that I didn't enjoy the first several books, but I've pretty much read all I need to read from that series. Something similar might work though.
-No shit writing. Period.

Is there anything left in all of that, or have I effectively neutered pretty much everything in movies, TV, and literature these days?

[Samuel]

Read Relevation Space?

[Imperial Overlord]

Walter John Williams's "Praxis" series. It's space opera, with FTL, but it's really well written and aside from the FTL the tech is pretty hard. It's about an ancient, complacent, and corrupt empire that falls into civil war when the last of its masters dies. No shields, no FTL communications, no telepathy, no gravity control tech. Antimatter engines, particle beams and lasers as anti-missile systems, and lots of space battles and intrigue.

[Darth Ruinus]

Starship Troopers by Robert A. Heinlein and Armor by John Steakley? There is powered armor and energy weapons (more so in the second one) and the ships have FTL.

*Oh damn. There are telepaths in SST.

War of the Worlds? Oh wait.

[Junghalli]

Footfall by Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle. It's basically a pretty much totally hard SF alien invasion story (well, the Fithp have some sort of inertialess drive, but that's about it). It's an excellent study in how a realistic, competent alien invasion would look like.

Some of the earlier Known Space works like Protector might be your kind of thing too. Protector mostly works with relatively hard SF concepts (Bussard ramjet starships etc.). There's some supertech involved, like the gravity telescope Brennan-Protector builds, but not too much. I found the full story on the net a while back but I don't have the link right now, damn.

The space odyssey series by Arthur C Clarke (2001, 2010, 2061, 3001). The monoliths are definitely super-tech, but other than that everything's fairly hard, except the inertialess drives in 3001 (and whatever supermaterials they use for the Earth-encircling ring with 30,000 km towers).

[Admiral Valdemar]

Read Relevation Space?

Seconded. And Pushing Ice.

And Stand On Zanzibar.

[Marcus Aurelius]

Footfall by Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle. It's basically a pretty much totally hard SF alien invasion story (well, the Fithp have some sort of inertialess drive, but that's about it). It's an excellent study in how a realistic, competent alien invasion would look like.

The space odyssey series by Arthur C Clarke (2001, 2010, 2061, 3001). The monoliths are definitely super-tech, but other than that everything's fairly hard, except the inertialess drives in 3001 (and whatever supermaterials they use for the Earth-encircling ring with 30,000 km towers).

I thought there was not supposed to be any crap writing? 2061 and especially 3001 are about as crappy writing as it gets. Clarke was never much of a writer but at least he had interesting ideas that kept his stories afloat. By 3001 he had run out of truly interesting ideas and his writing actually got worse when he got older. Niven and Pournelle are not exactly Nobel material either, although I haven't read Footfall and generally they are better than Clarke as writers. A little.

The problem with most hard scifi is that it written by scientists, who are often not very good writers. There are some exceptions, but unfortunately not too many. If you really enjoy the science part of it, it may not matter to you, but for me even scifi is primarily about well written stories and only secondarily about science.

[Junghalli]

Well, I don't know, the writing in those doesn't seem too bad to me. When I heard crap writing I was thinking something more like the Worldwar series by Harry Turtledove (which I didn't mention for precisely that reason). Crap writing is pretty subjective, though I'll admit 2061 and 3001 were hardly dynamite to me either. I thought of them as more mediocre than crap though.

Protector was pretty well written, to me anyway.

[Samuel]

Read Relevation Space?

Seconded. And Pushing Ice.

And Stand On Zanzibar.

All Alistar Reynolds books are rather good. RS is his first and if you like it, you'll will love the rest. I hope Reynolds branches out more. He certainly beats Jack McDevitt.

Niven and Pournelle are not exactly Nobel material either, although I haven't read Footfall and generally they are better than Clarke as writers. A little.

Footfall is good.

Orion Shall Rise? Nah... probably not your type. Although Snow Crash and Diamond Age are good.

Crap writing is pretty subjective, though I'll admit 2061 and 3001 were hardly dynamite to me either. I thought of them as more mediocre than crap though.

2061 is okay. 3001... not really.

[Junghalli]

What about the Academy Novels by Jack McDevitt (The Engines of God, Deepsix, Chindi, Omega, Odyssey, Cauldron)? They have some soft SF stuff (FTL, antigravity, the whole mechanism of the Omega Clouds), but they're relatively hard, and there are definitely no psychic powers or any of that stuff. They're more focused on xenoarchaeology than the usual space opera stuff.

Of course, they have some weaknesses, and some are better than others. I'd definitely recommend starting out with The Engines of God, and after that Deepsix is probably the strongest of the rest, followed by Chindi and Omega. Odyssey was probably the weakest of the series, I think. I'm still in the process of reading Cauldron, so I can't say how good it is yet (and if anybody else knows please put any plot info in mini-text, thank you). Cauldron actually seems to have the strongest prose of them so far, probably he's learning from his mistakes.

[Samuel]

What about the Academy Novels by Jack McDevitt (The Engines of God, Deepsix, Chindi, Omega, Odyssey, Cauldron)? They have some soft SF stuff (FTL, antigravity, the whole mechanism of the Omega Clouds), but they're relatively hard, and there are definitely no psychic powers or any of that stuff. They're more focused on xenoarchaeology than the usual space opera stuff.

Of course, they have some weaknesses, and some are better than others. I'd definitely recommend starting out with The Engines of God, and after that Deepsix is probably the strongest of the rest, followed by Chindi and Omega. Odyssey was probably the weakest of the series, I think. I'm still in the process of reading Cauldron, so I can't say how good it is yet (and if anybody else knows please put any plot info in mini-text, thank you). Cauldron actually seems to have the strongest prose of them so far, probably he's learning from his mistakes.

I soured on those books. I don't know exactly why, but I have read the academy series, A Talent for War, Polaris, Seeker, Ancient Shores, Infinity Beach and Eternity Road.

We have spoiler text now
Spoiler

In Cauldren it turns out the cause of all Omega clouds... is a giant space creature that is trapped in the heart of the galaxy. A BIG one. That thing on the cover? That is it- your basic plasma beast. And it is sending out the clouds to contact others, even though it knows they won't come.

His Alex Benedict series just seems so... small.

[Mayabird]

The Vorkosigan series by Lois McMaster Bujold. Great writing, lovable characters, FTL only works via gates (if they close, your planet is fucked) and technology is otherwise reasonable and doesn't go into technobabble, no magic (well, one side book is about a character who'd been genetically engineered for telepathy and has agents of the people he escaped coming after him, but it never comes up again after that), no real deus ex machinas (if the cavalry comes to the rescue, it's because that was obviously planned from the very beginning), and so on. Seriously, if you haven't read them, do it. They're fun.

[Count Chocula]

Redliners by David Drake. It's available at the Baen Free Library, http://www.baen.com.

Octagon by Fred Saberhagen. Not one of his "hurr, hurr, destroy all mankind" Berserker books, but a different AI sci-fi novel.

For something totally offbeat, but hardcore sci-fi, try Macroscope by Piers Anthony. Yes, the Xanth Piers Anthony. It's actually the first book of his that I read.

[B5B7]

Yes, Macroscope is good; Anthony wrote some good books in his earlier years.
As regards McDevitt, his books are readable, he has the ability to write (he even teaches it, I believe) but there are severe weaknesses in his novels. I wrote a rather long article criticising the Academy novels, and also individual critiques of some of his Benedict novels.
Can find them via my link in my signature - go to Articles page and SF Reviews page, OR,
here are links to the specific pages:
Major articles on McDevitt - here
Reviews of Polaris and Seeker - here

[Coyote]

Damn, I wish my own sci-fi series is more popular and well known... it suits that pretty well. There's FTL (let's face it, it's very Star Wars KOTOR era without anything resembling the Force). I may be feeding my own ego with the "no shit writing" but that's one reason why I write-- I think I'm pretty good. Heh.

[Acidburns]

The Vorkosigan series by Lois McMaster Bujold.

I read through that series just last month. I found the Miles Niansmith books enjoyable too, but Miles was maybe a just a little bit wanky as far as characters go. The Vorkosigan series is better.

I found Altered Carbon by Richard K. Morgan an incredible read.

[Patrick Degan]

The Forever War by Joe Haldeman. Once you buy into the idea of star-travel via Kerr black hole stargates, everything else is solid SF and the whole plot turns on how relativity bites the main characters in the ass.

[Samuel]

The Forever War by Joe Haldeman. Once you buy into the idea of star-travel via Kerr black hole stargates, everything else is solid SF and the whole plot turns on how relativity bites the main characters in the ass.

The other two books in the series... well, forever peace maybe, but forever free isn't worth it.

[Shortie]

Have you read any Neal Stephenson? Snow Crash obviously, and I'd recommend Diamond Age as well. About the best cyberpunk you'll find.

The Forever War by Joe Haldeman. Once you buy into the idea of star-travel via Kerr black hole stargates, everything else is solid SF and the whole plot turns on how relativity bites the main characters in the ass.

The other two books in the series... well, forever peace maybe, but forever free isn't worth it.

Although the starship AI has a couple of good lines.

[Patrick Degan]

The Forever War by Joe Haldeman. Once you buy into the idea of star-travel via Kerr black hole stargates, everything else is solid SF and the whole plot turns on how relativity bites the main characters in the ass.

The other two books in the series... well, forever peace maybe, but forever free isn't worth it.

Well, they're not exactly a series, per-se; more like the other two are loosely connected at best to the original. It's more like a string of books which all have a common theme but aren't really directly linked in an arc.

[Shroom Man 777]

Damn, I wish my own sci-fi series is more popular and well known... it suits that pretty well. There's FTL (let's face it, it's very Star Wars KOTOR era without anything resembling the Force). I may be feeding my own ego with the "no shit writing" but that's one reason why I write-- I think I'm pretty good. Heh.

Show me.

[Uraniun235]

I highly recommend Legend of the Galactic Heroes, if you can find it.

[Vultur]

The Forge of God by Greg Bear.

If you want near-future stuff, Ben Bova's Mars, Return to Mars, and Venus are good.

Midworld by Alan Dean Foster.

[Junghalli]

We have spoiler text now
Spoiler

In Cauldren it turns out the cause of all Omega clouds... is a giant space creature that is trapped in the heart of the galaxy. A BIG one. That thing on the cover? That is it- your basic plasma beast. And it is sending out the clouds to contact others, even though it knows they won't come.

I just finished reading it today. Oh well, there goes my fan theory. I always figured the Omega Clouds were Beserker probes, and the hedgehogs were baited traps set up by somebody trying to kill them (they wrap themselves around the big antimatter bomb, and then it blows up and destroys them), and the whole signal thing was just bullshit. Frankly, I still think that makes a lot more sense that the canonical explanation.

It was an OK book. Though the repitition of "I will insert fatal animal attacks randomly to artificially pump up the tension and drama" is getting pretty old by now. And now that I read more criticisms of it, the persistent theme of relatively untrained people being sent out on exploration missions really bugs me. The core expedition should have had a crew consisting of trained astronauts, not a bunch of mostly amateurs. And if they took better precautions that guy wouldn't have been killed by the giant snake-thing.

I also found the bit with Smith's people kind of vaguely disturbing. "LOL, we shouldn't develop immortality". Though I may just be reading too much into that.

[Vultur]

I also found the bit with Smith's people kind of vaguely disturbing. "LOL, we shouldn't develop immortality". Though I may just be reading too much into that.

Well, I haven't read that book yet ... but a lot of people probably would be against it. I wouldn't take an immortality treatment. A couple extra decades of youthfulness, sure ... but not immortality. I don't want to know what I'd become after four or five hundred years...