BSG 4.5: "A Disquiet Follows My Soul" Talkback (SPOILERS)

[Skylon]

Well, that was unexpected in one sense .....


Ah Felix, you were such a nice fellow..... shame its going to end that way


They better unfuck this disaster soon, or the series will end with just 2 people left on some rock somewhere......

That's honestly the only way I can see this going right now, especially with the shiny prospect of Earth gone.

It looks like we're back to the theme of humanity's greatest enemy ain't the Cylons, but each other.

[MarshalPurnell]

Kind of bleh. The baby plot looks like a blatant retcon to deal with a problem caused by Moore not planning ahead any. The Fleet's human population seems to suffer from a case of terminal stupidity, but that's been obvious for a while now. Would now place my bets on an "everybody dies" ending.

[Lonestar]

You know, if Gaeta had not blown the lid off of the rigged election, well...not saying they wouldn't be in this same situation, but Goddamn it would probably be a sight better one(another Battlestar, another 1000 people or so).

[Bilbo]

I think that Adama is the dying leader.

Meh, it's a nice theory, and one heck of a twist it would be, but I don't think so. Adama doesn't give two shits about the Opera House, and as we all know, "A dying leader will know the truth of the Opera House" doesn't really apply to him.

Knowing the truth and caring about the truth are two different things. Just because Adama doesnt care doesnt mean he wont learn something whether he wants to or not.

[DrMckay]

Poor Felix, always doing the wrong things for the right reasons (Except spying for the resistance.)

In this case, I think he's making the ethically correct choice, (not allying with the Cylons,) at the expense of the better practical choice, longer-ranged jumps.

Adama is also walking a very fine line as far as "military decisions" go. also, Props to "Husker" on finally making some time for himself. And Laura.


As far as Tyrol goes, he's a nice guy and a competent crewer who's been frakked over more times than anyone. Tigh making a decision in the miniseries resulting in 87 of his people dying, Crashdown getting his deck crew killed, Boomer being a cylon, cally shooting boomer, seeing Helo have a relationship with another boomer, he thinks he's a cylon and the man who he seeks
counselling from is a Cylon, ends up marrying Cally, who shot boomer, his boomer, nearly losing Cally, finding out he's a cylon, losing Cally, and now finding out he's not Nicky's father.

Let me know if I missed anything.

On the plus side, he got to pistol-whip Baltar. "Welcome back, Mr. President." -very satisfying.

I think he's entitled to take a little vacation from sanity.

Also, What's with Adama taking the pills and not feeling well? Are they gonna kill him off?

because that would suck. That would really suck.

[Haruko]

Regarding the preview for the next episode, it seems like even Zarek thinks Gaeta is going too far.

And who was that guy telling Kara that nobody even knows what she is anymore? Where have we seen him before?

[xerex]

And who was that guy telling Kara that nobody even knows what she is anymore? Where have we seen him before?

you mean in the next week preview ?

Pegasus former CAG. think he was also the guy in "First Wave".

[AMT]

And who was that guy telling Kara that nobody even knows what she is anymore? Where have we seen him before?

you mean in the next week preview ?

Pegasus former CAG. think he was also the guy in "First Wave".

He was

[CaptJodan]

Now for the review, because I think it's good to think about the episode a while before passing any kind of judgment.

Overall, I liked this episode. I think it's well placed, given that it's the first episode to kind of "take a break" from the action and revelations and try and deal with the consequences of those revelations. Overall, it's been a pretty fast paced episode schedule ever since the destruction of the Hub, and we've scarcely touched on even some of those revelations (Roslyn finally finding out just how deep Baltar was involved in the destruction of the colonies, and how many people she told, comes to mind). With all the revelations or battles going on, this episode was desperately needed as a pause to show just where everyone is, and how they're trying to cope.

The Good
-Showing that, at least the way it looks now, even Baltar has lost faith in his One True God, or at least feels he should come down and get the shit beat out of him. It mirrors Roslyn's loss of faith very well, and accents the fact that both of these people have been seen as prophets for a greater cause, and both feel let down by it. I imagine there might be a visit from head Six soon, and I always enjoy her.

-Adama looking down and finding trash several times on in the middle of the hall on Galactica. It's moments like these I really love seeing in BSG. They're more subtle, but tell a hell of a lot more of the story than a character going "The fleet is deteriorating". You see it in the little things, like this. Adama's ship may have been worn and beaten to a pulp, or just rundown and not taken care of like during New Caprica, but it was never this sloppy. Shows a good contrast from those previous times.

-Roslyn and Adama hooking up and getting some time together, as well as Roslyn's response to it all, that she's done her part and now she wants to live a little before she dies. Great stuff.
-If you looked for it, there was actually some humor in this episode. Adama's huge understatement I already covered, but Baltar's little "Are we children....." ::looks down:: "well, obviously YOU are..." bit just struck me as funny, as if he was so full of himself that he didn't even notice who his audience was.

The Bad: Very little bad in this episode, but there were a couple things.
-The baby plot may or may not have been planned since the beginning (Tyrol's), but it FELT like a retcon to me as well. It seems stupid, but it felt like Moore forgot that Hera was the special baby, and if Tyrol's was another hybrid, that it would raise all kinds of additional questions, including that Hera ain't that special. I don't know, it just came so far out of left field because Cally never expressed interest in Hot Dog before or after, and it just feels badly placed. The two don't even interact in any (meaningful) way on screen.

-This is more a general comment on the Galactica as a whole, but I can certainly see the point of some that suggest this crew just doesn't deserve to survive ("maybe you don't" indeed). From the leaders to the peons that we see, the crew takes the most extreme, most illogical actions possible to solve a problem. These are actions that have no truly positive endgame. What does Zarak hope to accomplish? Who is going to actually have the competency to run Galactica if you rebel against Adama, Tigh, and the rest of his loyal crew (Lee included)? Certainly not Zarak, he's a politician, not a combat officer, and Gaeta isn't cut out for the Admiral's chair either. I'm not saying that there shouldn't be some rebellion, some hysteria, even some suicides within the fleet (I expected the number quoted to be far less, actually, between riots and suicides), nor that our main characters can't despair, just that they don't go flying off the handle into making plans that have no possible positive endgame. Out of the entire decision-making episode, I think Adama's acceptance of Cylon help was probably the most logical and practical decision, even if it was certainly going to be damned unpopular.

The Ugly
-Foaming Mouth Adama (I know it was toothpaste, but really...). That was just...unpleasant.

[Zac Naloen]

Looks to me like Adama is very ill, that scene with the foaming mouth tooth paste bit showed that he's in great physical pain.

[Skylon]

On the rewatch last night, I noticed the guard to Zarek's cell was in the mess-hall when Gaeta was talking shit to Starbuck. Nice detail!

They sorta nodded to Zarek's involvement in "Black Market". Though Adama it turned out had no evidence at all, he was able to bluff Zarek, which acknowledges he maintained the ties to the fleet's black market.

As noted, it SUCKS to be the Chief. I think this was intended as also a way to explain Cally's total decline to crazy. Keeping that secret probably didn't help. As far as Hot Dog, that was completely out of left-field and I can only guess they wanted to give EJO's son something to do, as he just tends to be "dude in Viper cockpit".

Zarek returned to being the ass he was when he first appeared, proving he has just been bidding his time, waiting for the moment to take power. One final old Apollo vs. new Apollo bout would be welcome before the end of the series.

I don't think Adama's dying, or the dying leader, but he's getting run down. I certainly don't seeing him surviving the last episode, but that goes for just about everyone.

I'm interested in what goes on with Baltar during this whole revolution. I think he may in some way end up helping Adama and company over Zarek in some way.

On a side note, this was the first episode produced after the strike ended (last week's was the last script shot before the strike)...looks like they came back swinging when the cast and crew got back to work, because this was a frakkin' good build-up episode.

[Mayabird]

Poor, stupid Hot Dog. Because he was the only character to not have any drama in his life (except maybe that rash of his) I was thinking he might end up surviving. Poor, stupid Hot Dog.

As for the Galactica crew going crazy, remember from the very beginning that these people weren't exactly the best of the best. They were the ones who were posted on a ship that was about to be decommissioned, a lot of people stuck there because they had to go somewhere and they wouldn't do any damage there plus a bunch of people of no real account (like Cally, who just wanted money for dental school). The Pegasus crew that joined were probably of better quality on average, but they got strained from having a skeleton crew, Mad Admiral Cain, and then all the regular stress of the fleet the past couple years.

[charlemagne]

The Fleet's human population seems to suffer from a case of terminal stupidity, but that's been obvious for a while now.

I'm getting a bit angry about that as well. Why is everybody too stupid to understand the difference between "Cylons" and "rebel Cylons who want to become allies"? And why give Tigh & Co. any shit at all - they weren't the ones nuking the colonies and they didn't fucking know what they were - why is it that most people just don't get that? Tigh was leading the fucking resistance and lost an eye and his wife over it, and Starbuck's husband was leading another resistance back on Caprica, for fuck's sake.

/rant

[Ford Prefect]

Why is everybody too stupid to understand the difference between "Cylons" and "rebel Cylons who want to become allies"?

The fleet has a legitimate reason to dislike the rebel Cylons. At the end of the day, Sixes, Twos and Eights were all involved in wiping out the vast majority of the human race, and Sixes and Eights were at the heart of the New Caprica regime more than any other model. Every time they look at that Baseship, they're looking at the class of vessel that rained nuclear weapons ont he Colonies and killed fifty billion people. They're looking at the type of ship which has hounded them across space for years trying to kill them and complete a pogrom of genocide. Forgive them for not really giving a shit about their theological civil war.

[charlemagne]

Forgive them for not really giving a shit about their theological civil war.

They don't even have to give a shit about the cylon civil war, but they could give a shit about the new tech they can get through them. Like the improved jump drives that would triple the range they can cover in one jump.

I know that the average citizen won't really care about tech advancment overall, but the jump drive thing alone should sound like a good idea to everyone, shouldn't it? Of course there'd still people going "it's enemy tech we'll never use it", but shouldn't there be enough/more people seeing the benefit in that?

And besides this ally issue, it still doesn't really explain all the hostility Tigh & Co. face. As I said, none of the four was ever part of the "Cylon nation".

[FireNexus]

They don't trust the rebel cylons. They have nothing to go by but the word of the rebels that this isn't some elaborate setup. Beyond that, what if those jump drives are boobie-trapped.

You can be sure-ish that the toasters are telling the truth. The people in the fleet can't.

[Uraniun235]

Pretty good episode. I think Gaeta's going a bit off the deep end with his notion of reckoning, but I imagine losing a leg and finding out you were actually the collaborator Baltar said you were would probably do that to a dude.

[Ford Prefect]

They don't even have to give a shit about the cylon civil war, but they could give a shit about the new tech they can get through them. Like the improved jump drives that would triple the range they can cover in one jump.

I know that the average citizen won't really care about tech advancment overall, but the jump drive thing alone should sound like a good idea to everyone, shouldn't it? Of course there'd still people going "it's enemy tech we'll never use it", but shouldn't there be enough/more people seeing the benefit in that?

Congratulations, you just managed to effortlessly gloss over the fleet's entire problem with the rebel Cylons. Shit, they have great jump drives, I guess we better totally forget every awful thing they did to us! They are fundamentally opposed to the Cylons, because of past experience. We know that the rebel Cylons mean no harm, and that they are sincere, but try to imagine you're some oblivious civvie living int he fleet for a moment, who may have lived under Cylon control on New Caprica, or who had their world destroyed by your new allies. Can you see why they might just be a tiny wee bit apprehensive about the whole situation? The fact that they hadn't already outright revolted is a testament to their restraint.

And besides this ally issue, it still doesn't really explain all the hostility Tigh & Co. face. As I said, none of the four was ever part of the "Cylon nation".

The majority of that hostility comes from Gaeta. Prior to him mouthing off about Blanders and getting pissy at Tyrol, there clearly wasn't a huge amount of hostility there. Tigh is, after all, still the XO and people still follow his orders, Tyrol still lives on the Galactica and has no trouble walking around the place, and presumably Blanders is still flying CAP.

[charlemagne]

Congratulations, you just managed to effortlessly gloss over the fleet's entire problem with the rebel Cylons. Shit, they have great jump drives, I guess we better totally forget every awful thing they did to us! They are fundamentally opposed to the Cylons, because of past experience. We know that the rebel Cylons mean no harm, and that they are sincere, but try to imagine you're some oblivious civvie living int he fleet for a moment, who may have lived under Cylon control on New Caprica, or who had their world destroyed by your new allies. Can you see why they might just be a tiny wee bit apprehensive about the whole situation? The fact that they hadn't already outright revolted is a testament to their restraint.

Well, you're right, I've failed to step down from viewer knowledge there.

The majority of that hostility comes from Gaeta. Prior to him mouthing off about Blanders and getting pissy at Tyrol, there clearly wasn't a huge amount of hostility there. Tigh is, after all, still the XO and people still follow his orders, Tyrol still lives on the Galactica and has no trouble walking around the place, and presumably Blanders is still flying CAP.

You're right there, too. Thinking about it, it seems like Gaetas "there's enough" bunch of soon-to-be-mutineers is all there is for now. But I wonder what his plan is, really. Does he actually plan to replace Adama, or is his plan to just make Zarek replace Roslin?

Regarding Adama's sickness - couldn't it just be that he's, like, really tired and stressed out? And now after getting a frak and maybe sleeping through a night he'll be better next episode? I really hope so, because replacing one dying leader with the next dying leader would seem like a cheap move to me.

[Galvatron]

Did Roslin forget that she was all about soldiering on and making babies back when she thought Earth was a myth? So...why not just go back to that mindset?

[CaptJodan]

The Cylon/human alliance doesn't really make sense to me in the fact that I would have expected the fleet's reaction so much earlier than it was given. True, Lee had given his word they'd work together, but that's no different than Adama giving his word here. I expected a much larger objection to leading the Cylons to Earth, what was going to be their new home for good. Fact is, no one objected to the idea of taking the Cylons along to Earth the first time around, but NOW suddenly, when they have no real destination, they're worried about them.

I agree with Ford Prefect that the humans can't wash their utter hatred of the Cylons under the bridge after all the Cylons have done to them just for some improved jump drives, but the timing of their objections is annoying.

[Galvatron]

It's too bad the allied cylons don't have more basestars to offer. I can't see the humans turning down an alliance with an armada of friendlies, whether they're toasters or not.

[Ford Prefect]

Though at the same time, more Baseships might just make them even more nervous. They could understand them tolerating one, because the Galactica could easily handle one.

[Falkenhorst]

I think Gaeta is the litterbug. I remember reading how in the age of sail when a ship's crew was becoming restless they would roll cannonballs across the deck and try to trip officers they didn't like. These were called "Shot rolling ships".

[Themightytom]

First of all, god damn the ret conning. Some writer was probably reading this site about the beginning of season 4, scratched his head and said "Oh shit, thats right, if Tyrol is now a cylon, then the child is a hybrid, wish we'd thought of that before rolling the dice on who becomes a cylon... Oh well we can write an episode later and make Callie a slut."

The last scene with Roslyn and Adama in his quarters...

Even with the bald head.

Yeah hat was pretty gross actually :-p I was never a roslin fan, and the baldness is helping her any. The hair served to keep her droopy flesh from sliding away.

Though at the same time, more Baseships might just make them even more nervous. They could understand them tolerating one, because the Galactica could easily handle one.

I don't know about EASILY, it really looks like its on its last leg.

Poor, stupid Hot Dog. Because he was the only character to not have any drama in his life (except maybe that rash of his) I was thinking he might end up surviving. Poor, stupid Hot Dog.
.

Yeah but NOW we know where he got the nickname :-p

Does anyone feel like the chief was all over the map in this episode? he started out by being a threatening alien sort of Cylon, then he started forgetting who was who then he was an ANGRY FATHER RAWR then he was for a little bit the Chief we all knew and loved, but for msot o it he was emo dressed in black.

I started to dislike Gaeta around season three mostly because of his fan wank following. Now I'm jsut about ready for him to go. it is massively hypocritical of him to be pointing fingers after finding out he was a collaborator.

This is getting tired and formulaic personally, Everything that happens is a clusterfuck. Any secret hope I had of Galactica finding allies, and retaking the colonies... a direction I would RATHER have seen it go in... Has turned into "Hmm which character do I want to die this week, because they have gotten soo moody I'm tired of the bitching" (By the way I would like to vote Gaeta off the island. I'm still hoping Starbuck will reverse this backslide of hers, Tory hasn't ofended me, and although lee is annoying, everytime he and his dad have a heart to heart we get that sweet soundtrack so he can stay..)