BSG 4.5: "A Disquiet Follows My Soul" Talkback (SPOILERS)

[Bilbo]

I started to dislike Gaeta around season three mostly because of his fan wank following. Now I'm jsut about ready for him to go. it is massively hypocritical of him to be pointing fingers after finding out he was a collaborator.

Fan wank following? What is there to fan wank about that moron? 99% of his bad attitude comes from his self-pity over his lost foot.

Also isnt this little punk the one who wanted to be the hero of the witness stand by straight out lying about Baltar's signing of death warrants?

[Ford Prefect]

I don't know about EASILY, it really looks like its on its last leg.

The rebel baseship is very much on its last legs too, but the undercrewed Galactica was holding out for quite some time against four at once. It was losing, but the amount of time it managed to hold out is impressive. It's no Pegasus, of course, but the Galactica is no slouch.

[Sam Or I]

[quote="Themightytom"]First of all, god damn the ret conning. Some writer was probably reading this site about the beginning of season 4, scratched his head and said "Oh shit, thats right, if Tyrol is now a cylon, then the child is a hybrid, wish we'd thought of that before rolling the dice on who becomes a cylon... Oh well we can write an episode later and make Callie a slut."
[quote]

Man, and quite a few from the board jumped on me for predicting exactly this (or was it calling cally a whore). It makes story telling sense if they are setting up Tyroll as a villian. The last bit of his humanity has been stripped from him, I see him joining the non-rebel Cylon side soon, espeicially if Boomer gets to him.

[Themightytom]

Fan wank following? What is there to fan wank about that moron? 99% of his bad attitude comes from his self-pity over his lost foot.

Also isnt this little punk the one who wanted to be the hero of the witness stand by straight out lying about Baltar's signing of death warrants?

Well here's an example, but he has a HUGE following een though he's pretty much bsg's answer to harry kim.
http://rapfic.livejournal.com/

Man, and quite a few from the board jumped on me for predicting exactly this (or was it calling cally a whore). It makes story telling sense if they are setting up Tyroll as a villian. The last bit of his humanity has been stripped from him, I see him joining the non-rebel Cylon side soon, espeicially if Boomer gets to him.

NO WAY, he's teaching hot Dog to be a daddy, he could have walked from the kid once he found out about the father, Tyrol is more human than some of the humans

It was losing, but the amount of time it managed to hold out is impressive. It's no Pegasus, of course, but the Galactica is no slouch.

It really took a poinding, and it never got a chance to be repaired. its rcord is impressive but it is REALLY starting to show, theres shit hanging off it from every angle, you don't cringe when you see it drag itself accross screen?

[DrMckay]

Tell me about it. I just watched some first season stuff, and suddenly seeing the (relatively pristine) "Bucket" of the decommissioning ceremony and miniseries then comparing it with the present reality was shocking, to say the least.

Imagine if Voyager actually had the guts to do simple stuff like this.

[Mayabird]

The reasons there are Gaeta fans:
1) He's cute. Unless you are female, a gay man (possibly), or a guy who can understand some of the thought processes of women or gay men, you wouldn't understand.
2) Speculation about his sexuality and/or Cylon status. It was something else to talk about at the tail end of Galactica parties. It was a social event, a bunch of people getting together to watch Stargate and then nBSG and then several hours of Discussion Time and eating the rest of the pizza afterward. Is he a Cylon protecting Baltar, or does he just have the hots for him? If you talk about something enough (and not negatively) you start getting attached. Now we know he's bi and not a Cylon so this is all out.
3) Early on, he seemed to be the only professional officer in the crew. You had the ship of dregs, the people who just happened to be on a ship that was being decommissioned because of past bad history or large personal issues, plus this guy who apparently fell off the starship Enterprise and hadn't realized yet that he wasn't supposed to be trustworthy and hard working. You might think it's annoying or something, but he was endearing for being the one solid person amongst the frakups. I think it was sometime in the second season when Gaeta finally snapped and shouted in the CiC which prompted Tigh to mutter about how the crew was breaking down. When even Gaeta couldn't take it, things were getting bad.

Now, since then he's gotten to be just as messed up as everybody else, but there are still those residual good feelings about him and old fans who are thinking, "Please come back to the light side, Felix! Don't do this!"


On a completely different note, we now have a figure for the pre-attack population of the colonies: somewhere around 50 billion. From Tigh's figure on New Caprica, fourteen billion lived on Caprica.

[CaptJodan]

Imagine if Voyager actually had the guts to do simple stuff like this.

One of my favorite elements of BSG by far is the gradual deterioration of Galactica (and sometimes they show shots of similar problems with other fleet ships). It's EXACTLY what Voyager should have been. Year of Hell was the closest they got.

[xerex]

well just saw the webisodes "face of the enemy." looks like those took place between this episdoe and the next .

[Bounty]

Imagine if Voyager actually had the guts to do simple stuff like this.

One of my favorite elements of BSG by far is the gradual deterioration of Galactica (and sometimes they show shots of similar problems with other fleet ships). It's EXACTLY what Voyager should have been. Year of Hell was the closest they got.

Voyager didn't have the last ten years of CGI advancements behind it. Re-rendering Galactica twice each season to add battle damage may be affordable now, but it wasn't in 2000, and it sure as hell wasn't an option back when they did models.

Interiors, now there you'd have a point since it wouldn't take much to make them look gradually grubbier and more patched-up, but the exterior shots weren't a function of laziness.

[Gil Hamilton]

Boy, Gaeta is a shit. There is foreshadowing here, though. Very clearly, Starbuck is going to have his nuts in a vice before this is over.

I still don't understand why they found Earth dissatisfying. Aside from the fact that its a planet and the Cavel is still out there, the fact that its been bombed out and doesn't currently have human inhabitants is almost a net plus in a sick sort of way. For one thing, it really reduces the amount of infrastructure they have to bring, since if they parked a colony near a reasonable sized destroyed city, they'll have no shortage of already refined materials to use. That means they don't have to mine raw materials, just set up a really good recycling operation. Other than that, it's clearly habitable. In fact, the only reason to conclude it isn't is that they've gone "Well, it just isn't, OK?" despite there presence of breathable air and vegetation (and presumably everything that goes with it up to and including microbes and insects, even if there is little fauna).

And good for Adama and Roslin. They really needed to actually consummate that, given that they were practically a married couple anyway. Of course, that's bad news if and when Zarek/Gaeta get wind of it (the Presidency is SLEEPING with the Admiralty! OPPRESSION OF THE PROLETARIAT STARTS IN ADAMA'S BEDROOM!)

[CaptJodan]

Voyager didn't have the last ten years of CGI advancements behind it. Re-rendering Galactica twice each season to add battle damage may be affordable now, but it wasn't in 2000, and it sure as hell wasn't an option back when they did models.

I'll grant you it couldn't have been anything like we see on BSG, maybe throw on a bit of scuffing texture on the outside or something, ala burn marks or something. It doesn't have to be the big gashes we see on BSG, but the mere attempt at hardship would have been nice to see.

Interiors, now there you'd have a point since it wouldn't take much to make them look gradually grubbier and more patched-up,

Quite. Voyager was never a crew that was suffering through a massive amount of hardship, though they sure complained like bitches. Even with BSG, it's a stretch for me to see how they are supported with enough food, clothing, paper, apparently toothpaste, and other amenities that aren't the highest priority products, and that can't be terribly easy to produce on ships with limited supplies.

[Ford Prefect]

NO WAY, he's teaching hot Dog to be a daddy, he could have walked from the kid once he found out about the father, Tyrol is more human than some of the humans

It just wouldn't make sense for Tyrol to just walk away from Nicky. When he said 'you get first shift' I was pleased.

When even Gaeta couldn't take it, things were getting bad.

I dunno about that. I would probably be more impressed if Helo couldn't take it: hello is the most functional and reliable person in the fleet, short of Doc Cottle.

[Mayabird]

I don't remember if Helo was back yet by then or not. Either way, it was still to show that things were getting bad. But if it got to the point that even Helo couldn't take it, it's beyond bad, probably the end of sentient life itself. Spending a year or so running around on a post-apocalyptic planet being toyed with by Cylons should've messed him up something crazy but somehow he's still six feet of kindness and loving who'll still work with someone even if he just tried to smash in Helo's skull with a wrench.

Speaking of making things up as they go, Helo was supposed to die on Caprica after being left behind.

[Bounty]

I'll grant you it couldn't have been anything like we see on BSG, maybe throw on a bit of scuffing texture on the outside or something, ala burn marks or something. It doesn't have to be the big gashes we see on BSG, but the mere attempt at hardship would have been nice to see.

The problem is that most of the FX in any episode are stock fly-bys. They get made once and reused for the rest of the series; even "adding scuff marks" makes all the stock footage up to that point useless.

[Uraniun235]

I still don't understand why they found Earth dissatisfying. Aside from the fact that its a planet and the Cavel is still out there, the fact that its been bombed out and doesn't currently have human inhabitants is almost a net plus in a sick sort of way. For one thing, it really reduces the amount of infrastructure they have to bring, since if they parked a colony near a reasonable sized destroyed city, they'll have no shortage of already refined materials to use. That means they don't have to mine raw materials, just set up a really good recycling operation. Other than that, it's clearly habitable. In fact, the only reason to conclude it isn't is that they've gone "Well, it just isn't, OK?" despite there presence of breathable air and vegetation (and presumably everything that goes with it up to and including microbes and insects, even if there is little fauna).

But, but... the radiation! The ATOMS!! It was nuked!!!

Yeah, that was really contrived. I would have been a lot happier with something like Cavil's fleet jumping in and forcing the issue, since I figure the only thing preventing them from backtracking and settling down on Kobol is the threat of Cylons coming back to a known location. Unfortunately I think maybe this is an issue where the writers aren't well-versed with the likely aftermath of a nuclear bombardment, since I distinctly recall Roslin bitching to one of the Cylons about how they'd gone and left the Colonies as 'burned out uninhabitable radioactive cinders' or something like that - the clear impression is that they considered (and apparently still consider) any planet that was nuked to be ruined forever.

[Ford Prefect]

Speaking of making things up as they go, Helo was supposed to die on Caprica after being left behind.

Then some bright spark asked the question 'what happened to Helo' and we got his plot thread on Caprica, which was frankly quite interesting.

since I figure the only thing preventing them from backtracking and settling down on Kobol is the threat of Cylons coming back to a known location

I honestly can't see the fleet considering settling on Kobol, simply because of how superstitious they are about it.

[Bladed_Crescent]

Also Kobol's location is know to the Cylons, not that far from the colonies (relatively speaking; they encountered it in season one, unlike New Caprica in S2 or Algae Planet in S3). Plus, the 145s know that Kobol is of historic and cultural value to humanity; they knew beforehand, enough set up a basestar in orbit and lay groundside traps. Going back to Kobol would mean turning back, through the cordon of baseships searching for them and returning to one of the few habitable planets that the enemy knows about.

I do wonder, though - is the Rebel Baseship the only one there is, or are the rest of the 2s, 6s and 8s continuing the struggle against the 145s? We know the first group of 268 baseships were ambushed and destroyed, but that was one task force amongst dozens or hundreds of ships.

The rebel baseship is very much on its last legs too...

In one of the episodes just before the attack on the hub, Natalie-Six said that their ship would repair itself "in time", but they had no way to replace their Raiders. Whether that means she was just talking about internal systems, or if it can regrow the broken arms, I have no idea.

[CaptJodan]

The problem is that most of the FX in any episode are stock fly-bys. They get made once and reused for the rest of the series; even "adding scuff marks" makes all the stock footage up to that point useless.

Which is no different than BSG stock now. I've seen that top view looking down on the dorsal side of Galactica for quite some time now, and as far as I know, that particular shot hasn't been changed since AT LEAST before the nebula, which is where they presumably took some serious missiles because there guns were protecting the fleet, not themselves. Back then, just a change here and there, once per season, would have been nice.

Even when things broke down in Voyager, the ship still looked relatively pristine. No scuff marks, no trash lying around, no lights flickering on and off that hadn't been tended to. Then we have Year of Hell, which gave us several different model types IN ONE EPISODE with visible damage, in addition to an interior which was believable and realistic. That tells me it was possible to do. This wasn't a result of lack of ability. The fact is, they didn't try to do it...it wasn't a priority, probably because they felt it would be too dark and depressing for Trek.

I honestly can't see the fleet considering settling on Kobol, simply because of how superstitious they are about it.

At the time they arrived there, I agree. At this point? If they were sure that the Cylons wouldn't come hunt them down on Kobol, I think the logical thing would be to consider it (not to suggest that the Colonials dabble in logic often). Out of all the habitable planets they've come across, Kobol seemed to be the most habitable prospect. If Roslin's reaction to her religion is any indication of the rest of the fleet's beliefs (we don't know), a fair amount might say "fuck the lords of Kobol" and might consider it. I would.

[CaptJodan]

In one of the episodes just before the attack on the hub, Natalie-Six said that their ship would repair itself "in time", but they had no way to replace their Raiders. Whether that means she was just talking about internal systems, or if it can regrow the broken arms, I have no idea.

It also begs the question as to what kind of resupply abilities they have for their missile spam. Given that it's a fairly updated design, as Pegasus was, I imagine they *might* have limited construction capability for missiles. Then again, if they can't build raiders as Pegasus can build Vipers, they may have to rely on the fleet for resupply. Won't that be cozy. "Here, have some missiles that you can use to destroy us with."

[Kane Starkiller]

So they left Earth without even a goodbye high orbit shot.
I think I know where this is going now: the planet that 13th tribe found and named Earth is not our Earth. The "...home" that the fleet is now searching will turn out to be our Earth, will most likely be uninhabited by humans and they will call it Earth in honor of the planet the 13th tribe found. Lame, I know, hope I'm wrong.

[phongn]

Yeah, that was really contrived. I would have been a lot happier with something like Cavil's fleet jumping in and forcing the issue, since I figure the only thing preventing them from backtracking and settling down on Kobol is the threat of Cylons coming back to a known location. Unfortunately I think maybe this is an issue where the writers aren't well-versed with the likely aftermath of a nuclear bombardment, since I distinctly recall Roslin bitching to one of the Cylons about how they'd gone and left the Colonies as 'burned out uninhabitable radioactive cinders' or something like that - the clear impression is that they considered (and apparently still consider) any planet that was nuked to be ruined forever.

Well, it's not all that surprising. Most people really have no idea what nuclear war really entails - most people think "broken cities" and "eternal radioactive hazards." This board is something of an odd exception, considering we have a former targeteer and, er, Shep here.

[weemadando]

Far better than the last episode - I'm liking the return to the good old fleet politicking.

[RogueIce]

well just saw the webisodes "face of the enemy." looks like those took place between this episdoe and the next .

I doubt it. Gaeta was defending the Boomers in there, and he doesn't seem all that happy towards Cylons now. Plus, the Boomers were heading off to the recreation ship (or whatever it is) like it was an everyday thing, where one of the big points of this episode is that the fleet DOESN'T WANT Cylons to come and go as they please.

So I wonder when the webisodes were set, honestly. And if they're after this little rebellion well, maybe Gaeta isn't as much of a hypocrite after all, since he doesn't know the truth just yet?

[Skylon]

Also Kobol's location is know to the Cylons, not that far from the colonies (relatively speaking; they encountered it in season one, unlike New Caprica in S2 or Algae Planet in S3). Plus, the 145s know that Kobol is of historic and cultural value to humanity; they knew beforehand, enough set up a basestar in orbit and lay groundside traps. Going back to Kobol would mean turning back, through the cordon of baseships searching for them and returning to one of the few habitable planets that the enemy knows about.

Here's another question...even if the fleet wanted to turn around and go back to New Caprica, or Kobol...compromised locations aside, could they even make it? These ships have been hauling it for four years now, with no proper maintenance or repair facilities available. I doubt many of them could make it. This became a one-way trip awhile ago I think.

On a side note, when the fleet first came across Kobol they were considering it as a target for settlement until their first survey team ran into a fucking Basestar.

[CaptJodan]

I thought it was pretty obvious that the webisodes were set before this episode, but after the last one. They jumped away from Earth between the first episode of the half season and the webisodes, then we lead into this. None of Felix's sudden pissyness towards the Cylons makes sense without it.