US Army vs Arachnid Bugs in Starship Troopers movie

[Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman]

Alright, Mobile Infantry in SST movie is simply a bunch of pathetic clowns, but Imperial Ground Forces is maybe a little bit overkill.....

So what if we have real-world, modern-day armed forces invades Klendathu instead of those pathetic Mobile Infantry? Let's take US Army as example.

The US has landed invasion force on Klendathu (don't ask me how but let's assume they has done it). The ground forces consists of M1A2 Abrams Main Battle Tanks, M2/M3 Bradley Infantry/Cavalry Fighting Vehicles, M113 Armored Personnel Carriers, as well as Infantry Squads. The army has full artillery support, ranging from mortars to MLRS. They also have recon units (like Hum-Vees jeep), artillery spotters, and AA guns/missiles.
The ground forces are supported with Air Cavalry as well; Black Hawk transport chopper, Kiowa Warrior scout, and Apache gunship.

Let's assume that they have managed to establish few bases on Klendathu, so they have to adequately defend the bases as well as going on offensive. They have to protect the landing ships that provide the logistic as well.

So, what will the battle look like?

[Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman]

Sorry. The army size is more or less the same with the MI forces in SST movie.

[Mr Bean]

Simple, Stay near the AA and have the Black-Haws Play D, Meanwhile a few nukes later and I see things going just like in the moive, minus alot of unessary casualites

The Tank bugs however would be a problem, Best to nuke them to

[consequences]

Tank bugs aren't that tough, 40mm grenades could break the skin, and then bullets could start tearing up the insides. Anything larger than a 40mm grenade would probably kill the tank bug outright. The only reason the tank bug was such a threat to the movie MI is that they had no support weapons to bridge the gap between rifles and nukes. Point-blank rifle fire broke its skin, so a 50 cal would almost certainly be able to punch through.
What personal weapons are being used? On normal bugs an M16 probably doesn't have enough stopping power, but the new AIW would probably be able to bring bugs down with concentrated rifle fire, and the 20mm grenades it carries would likely kill a bug in one hit.

[Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman]

While M-16 maybe quite ineffective against those bugs, I don't think the infantry will rely solely on assault riffles. IMO, they'll be armed with GPMGs, support weapons (maybe 30 or 50 cals?), grenade launcher, and superdragons anti-tank rocket launcher.

Besides, they won't charge to the bugs while strafing using their assault rifles. They'll be deployed near APCs, slaughtering the bugs from safe distance using GPMGs, and be ready to withdraw if the odds are against them. And they'll fight alongside armor units.

PS: Yup, I played M1 Tank Platoon, iM1A2 Abrams, and M1 Tank Platoon 2.

PPS: Frankly, I'm longing for a "fighting-against-giant-insects" movie which present a ***reasonable*** battle, using combined arms of armor, infantry, artillery, and air support. SST movie just plain SUCKS. If you guys know about a decent giant insects movie, *please* let me know.

[Howedar]

I saw no evidence that the infantry weapons in the SST movie were anything but fancy looking assault rifles. The US Army would wipe the friggin' floor with them.

[Mr. B]

The tanks alone would wipe out the big bugs. And having a 50 cal on top to keep any attck bugs away. The Infantry could just sit on the APCs and shoot.

This is a no-contest battle.

[Master of Ossus]

I saw no evidence that the infantry weapons in the SST movie were anything but fancy looking assault rifles. The US Army would wipe the friggin' floor with them.

They seem heavier, too. And the modern American AFV's would make short work of the bugs.

[Antediluvian]

They could probably use artillery to kill off most of them, using Kiowas as spotters.

Then they just mow down any survivors with tank, IFV, infantry, and gunship fire.

[consequences]

You are underestimating the bugs subterranean abilities, and unless you specify special equipment, then 2/3 of the infantry will have M16A2s as primary weapons, with the combat support personnel being worse off.
What is the logistics and supply situation? How much food and ammo do the U.S. forces have available?

[IRG CommandoJoe]

As long as there are bombers and fighters, I don't think they even have to commit ground forces. B-52's would destroy thousands and thousands of bugs that were on the surface, while other planes carrying napalm, cluster bombs, bunker busters, fuel air bombs, nukes, and God knows what else would destroy them all. Apache gunships would hover around and pick off any bugs that were trying to escape from their stinking holes. I think ground forces would just hinder the bombings, because they would actually have to aim. LOL The only role ground forces would play would be to secure all landing strips with everything they have. Unless the air force in this scenario is modified to go up into space and dock with starships. It would make it even more easy. No ground force would have to be present at all.

[DodoBrd16]

The hardest any of our troopers would have to work is when they are washing bug gutts off the tracks of the tanks and APCs. LOL.

The grunts, would go in small recon units, finding caves and bug formations and either send rocket launchers into the caves to close them up, or call a tank in to pump some rounds into it. And if they spot bug formations, all the way from the little Fellers to the tankers, they simply call in Artillery and some mortar fire.

It would be a cake walk. We'd loose troopers, thats for sure, but we'd still clean up.

Got a question for you though, do they bug hives put off alot of heat? Cause if they did we could easily locate them and send in deep penetrator bombs to clean them out.

[Sea Skimmer]

In the book, the heat plums were how the MI found bug holes, so that should work. But, I'd leave most of them open. On the surface the bugs are very ease to kill, underground it gets harder and there complexes are going to be hard to completely crush, unless we bring the B61mod11 and other fun tactical nuclear devices into this..

The Davy Crocket's 250 ton yield would be ideal for crushing larger bug attacks...

[DodoBrd16]

Its better then risking our boys lives in under ground combat. And subsurface detonations reduce the amount of radiation put into the atmosphere.

So its only really benifits.

[Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman]

You are underestimating the bugs subterranean abilities, and unless you specify special equipment, then 2/3 of the infantry will have M16A2s as primary weapons, with the combat support personnel being worse off.
What is the logistics and supply situation? How much food and ammo do the U.S. forces have available?

Yup, but unlike those Moronic Infantry, er, Mobile Infantry in SST movie, the infantry won't fight alone. Instead, they'll be fighting alongside armor & artillery units, ie combined arms, as in every real world ground combat.

[Mr Bean]

Why is it that some authors are so idiot to send into space, troopers worse then ours?(To be fair the book had Super Soilders capable of lots of things the fodder in the movie could not hope to do)

[Darth Wong]

Why is it that some authors are so idiot to send into space, troopers worse then ours?(To be fair the book had Super Soilders capable of lots of things the fodder in the movie could not hope to do)

Here's another question: why try to take barren rock planets instead of simply nuking them from orbit? There's nothing whatsoever of value on those worthless rock planets we saw in the movie.

In fact, I'm at a loss to explain the Arachnids' biology. What do they eat? Their home planet seems to contain no vegetation or animal life apart from them; do they eat rocks? Every planet we ever see them on is just barren rock. Wouldn't it have been better to show them on jungle worlds? In fact, those guys would be a whole helluva lot scarier in a jungle; it would have made for a better movie.

The movie tactics were so simplistic it was painful. Arachnids always occupied barren rocks with no human civvies to get in the way, yet they sent down foot soldiers to root them out instead of simply blasting them from orbit. Planets were either entirely human-controlled or Bug-controlled, with no complexities such as cities or valuable strategic items to get in the way. Just awful.

The really sad thing is that I enjoyed the movie anyway. It's fun, on a totally brainless level. Kind of like Robocop, with its sly mix of social satire and bone-crunching action.

[Mr Bean]

The only decent thing was the music to the Trailer(Blur, it only had one good song you know which one)

Yes the movie was dumb

Yes the Troopers where idiots, Yes it was a terrible movie

anything else?

[IRG CommandoJoe]

The part where they said they sucked out his brains reminded me of some of the old black and white craptacular horror movies. Not that all old black and white horror movies are bad, but some are just retarded.

[Sea Skimmer]

Why is it that some authors are so idiot to send into space, troopers worse then ours?(To be fair the book had Super Soilders capable of lots of things the fodder in the movie could not hope to do)

Here's another question: why try to take barren rock planets instead of simply nuking them from orbit? There's nothing whatsoever of value on those worthless rock planets we saw in the movie.

In fact, I'm at a loss to explain the Arachnids' biology. What do they eat? Their home planet seems to contain no vegetation or animal life apart from them; do they eat rocks? Every planet we ever see them on is just barren rock. Wouldn't it have been better to show them on jungle worlds? In fact, those guys would be a whole helluva lot scarier in a jungle; it would have made for a better movie.

The movie tactics were so simplistic it was painful. Arachnids always occupied barren rocks with no human civvies to get in the way, yet they sent down foot soldiers to root them out instead of simply blasting them from orbit. Planets were either entirely human-controlled or Bug-controlled, with no complexities such as cities or valuable strategic items to get in the way. Just awful.

The really sad thing is that I enjoyed the movie anyway. It's fun, on a totally brainless level. Kind of like Robocop, with its sly mix of social satire and bone-crunching action.

Yeah, enjoyabul.

At least the book Bugs clearly had the tech to grow food under ground, and dug deep enough that nuke strike weren't thought to be effective.

That fort has to get credit for same of the worst sighing of all times. The thing is at the end of a gully, limiting them to one escape route, which is also the most likely attack avenue, and is surrounding on three sides by higher ground..

And when the damn dropships came to pick them up, why didn't have any of those bombers with it to provide some cover?

That whole thing is living proof of why you should not use Zulu as research material for sci fi.

[Darth Wong]

At least the book Bugs clearly had the tech to grow food under ground, and dug deep enough that nuke strike weren't thought to be effective.

The book bugs had technology. The movie bugs somehow evolved biological structures suitable for space travel! Argh.

That fort has to get credit for same of the worst sighting of all times. The thing is at the end of a gully, limiting them to one escape route, which is also the most likely attack avenue, and is surrounding on three sides by higher ground.

Too true, just horrible. And worse yet, they didn't bother finding a hard granite or otherwise relatively impenetrable base for the fort, and they did not compensate for this brain-damaged placement by laying a heavy artificial foundation, so the bugs were able to easily burrow underneath and pop up into the base. They didn't even use an armoured floor. You could see from the bug tunnel in the galley that the base floor was nothing but thin sheet metal, dropped right on top of dirt!

And when the damn dropships came to pick them up, why didn't have any of those bombers with it to provide some cover?

Come to think of it, why don't the dropships have miniguns or some other support armament besides "heroic moron standing in the door and firing his rifle"?

That whole thing is living proof of why you should not use Zulu as research material for sci fi.

[Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman]

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And when the damn dropships came to pick them up, why didn't have any of those bombers with it to provide some cover?
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Come to think of it, why don't the dropships have miniguns or some other support armament besides "heroic moron standing in the door and firing his rifle"?

That's why the SST movie was just plain stupid (although I actually enjoyed it.. hehe..). Real world army's transport choppers are often escorted by attack choppers to provide fire support, if not being able to provide their own (like Mi-24 Hind transport/attack chopper hybrid). Heck, even the old Vietnam-era Hueys have chain gun mounted on the side.

If it happens in real life, I think AH-64 Apache (or equivalent) will sweep in first to annihilate nearby bugs around the fort, using M-255 flechette rockets or incendiary ordnance, then Black Hawk will extract those troops while the Apache provides fire support.

PS: I've also played Gunship 2000 and Jane AH-64 Longbow...

[Robert Treder]

The only decent thing was the music to the Trailer(Blur, it only had one good song you know which one)

Yeah, Song 2.

But "Klendathu Drop", the song played when they're going down to Klendathu in the transports, is also a hella badass song. Download it soon.

[consequences]

just to get the thread back on topic: How does the U.S. military get deployed onto Klendathu? In one spot? All over the place in division sized formations? What kind of supply and logistics are available? Do they have to kill every bug on the planet to win? How well did the troops deal with being teleported from home station onto this planet? Will there be a USO show? What sort of "I was there" ribbon will be invented for the conflict? How will the high command try to fight the war like the last one and totally screw it up? Will there be punch and pie? Inquiring minds like mine want to know.

[Sea Skimmer]

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And when the damn dropships came to pick them up, why didn't have any of those bombers with it to provide some cover?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Come to think of it, why don't the dropships have miniguns or some other support armament besides "heroic moron standing in the door and firing his rifle"?

That's why the SST movie was just plain stupid (although I actually enjoyed it.. hehe..). Real world army's transport choppers are often escorted by attack choppers to provide fire support, if not being able to provide their own (like Mi-24 Hind transport/attack chopper hybrid). Heck, even the old Vietnam-era Hueys have chain gun mounted on the side.

If it happens in real life, I think AH-64 Apache (or equivalent) will sweep in first to annihilate nearby bugs around the fort, using M-255 flechette rockets or incendiary ordnance, then Black Hawk will extract those troops while the Apache provides fire support.

PS: I've also played Gunship 2000 and Jane AH-64 Longbow...

Now that I think of it, this would be the ideal mission for a gunship conversion of a B-36. You could fit a whole battery of 105s on the thing along with a dozen 20mm Gatling..

If it came down to things that exist though, Use Frogfoots, lots of Frogfoots, lots meaning the entire production run. Then pull the troops out with CH-53E's. Black hawks can only transport eleven people, and I don’t think more then one aircraft could set down inside the Fort, however both a CH-60 and CH-53 would have enough space.