Death Star Weapon of terror or Perfect Estrategic weapon?

[PunkMaister]

In regards to the infamous Death Star what kind of a weapon could it be considered from a strategic, militaristic etc point of view, is it a remarkable strategic weapon or is it more a weapon of terror like say the Supercanons of WWI and WWII and even Saddam Hussein's failed Supercanon attempt created by engineer Gerard Bull...

[The Romulan Republic]

It is a combination of terror weapon and siege weapon. It is intended to maintain Imperial power through fear, but it is effective in this role because of its ability to smash any planetary defenses with ease (and simply shrug off fleets and ground defenses).

[Batman]

It's obviously BOTH. How can a weapons platform that can in a matter of seconds achieve what conventional assets can, at best, achieve in a matter of weeks NOT be a valuable strategic weapon?
How can a weapons platform that can essentially ignore anybody's best efforts at defense NOT be an effective terror weapon?

The two aren't mutually exclusive you know.

[Eleventh Century Remnant]

What other methods are there of taking out a planetary shield?

Treachery, deception, waiting for a mechanical failure, specialised bombardment ships like the Torpedo Sphere- all long, slow, unreliable methods. Prior infiltration might work. Maybe. (There are dubious, fanfic-esque 'baldrick moves' that may have some effect, or may just be the effect of a given author's fevered imagination )

We do know that ships can make it from one edge of the galaxy to the other in far less time than it takes to, for instance, conduct a planetary siege- so the politics of it become complicated, with aid for the defender, interference with the attacker, resolution and counter- resolution, with the end result that punitive operations become politically complex, open- ended commitments.

The Death Star is basically a politics bypass device, through which punitive action can be taken swiftly, at great economy of time and talk if not necessarily resources.

Worth noting that it's actual loss should not have occurred, and would not if Tarkin had had the sense to deploy a proper fighter screen.

Was there actually a reason? Flash hazard- from the predicted impact of the superlaser beam on Yavin 4- liable to fry all the single man fighters in open space anyway? Unlikely of him to be so considerate, although it may have been mentioned in standing orders that Vader would have had to override in order to launch his personal escort.

I'd describe it as something equivalent to the introduction of gunpowder artillery in the middle ages; a genuinely landscape- transforming factor. All existing defences are rendered unimportant, because against the new powers they do not, practically speaking, defend- it is no longer possible to hide from central authority behind the walls of your own keep, and there is no more room for renegades.

Massively unfortunate that it was entrusted to the wisest fool in the Empire, who was himself watched over by someone who had no belief in the project.

[The Romulan Republic]

Its also a super-super-super heavy dreadnaught and carrier. Quite the multi-role ship.

[Coiler]

Was there actually a reason? Flash hazard- from the predicted impact of the superlaser beam on Yavin 4- liable to fry all the single man fighters in open space anyway? Unlikely of him to be so considerate, although it may have been mentioned in standing orders that Vader would have had to override in order to launch his personal escort.

If the fighters are going to be flying close to the DS, its own shield could defend them from the blast.

From the novelizations and EU, the reason given seems to be a mix of overconfidence and shocked surprise that the Rebels actually tried to strike back (IIRC, the ANH novelization mentions that the Empire expected a "massive defense of the moon itself, not an attack by a few small fighters")

[Batman]

Whatever TIEs happened to be around by the time of Yavin IV's destruction could simply have hid behind the Death Star even assuming there WOULDN'T have been ample time to RTB. What exactly would have kept Tarkin from waiting another minute or five to recover his TIES once the Rebel fighters were obliterated? If the Rebels had had anything else to throw at the DS that they thought would have a chance to succeed they would've done so.

[PunkMaister]

Someone mentioned resources and I wanted to get to that. The Death Star's massive size and maintenance requirements must require tons of money and resources to be poured into it to keep it running. As I understand the Star Wars Galaxy is being run dry of resources by it's inhabitants just as we are doing here to our own planet so how feasible and cost effective is it as far as weapons platforms go say compared to other imperial weapons systems such as Sun Crushers and World Devastators? Economics like it or not always have to come into play one way or another, does it not?

[Ghost Rider]

Someone mentioned resources and I wanted to get to that. The Death Star's massive size and maintenance requirements must require tons of money and resources to be poured into it to keep it running.

A small amount given that the Emperor was able to build a second one in secret.

As I understand the Star Wars Galaxy is being run dry of resources by it's inhabitants just as we are doing here to our own planet

Prove this assertion.

so how feasible and cost effective is it as far as weapons platforms go say compared to other imperial weapons systems such as Sun Crushers and World Devastators? Economics like it or not always have to come into play one way or another, does it not?

Again demonstrate LACK of resources before using it as the crux of your arguement.

[PunkMaister]

Someone mentioned resources and I wanted to get to that. The Death Star's massive size and maintenance requirements must require tons of money and resources to be poured into it to keep it running.

A small amount given that the Emperor was able to build a second one in secret.

As I understand the Star Wars Galaxy is being run dry of resources by it's inhabitants just as we are doing here to our own planet

Prove this assertion.

so how feasible and cost effective is it as far as weapons platforms go say compared to other imperial weapons systems such as Sun Crushers and World Devastators? Economics like it or not always have to come into play one way or another, does it not?

Again demonstrate LACK of resources before using it as the crux of your arguement.

It is just I have heard around the grapevine anyway the Corusca galaxy does seem pretty heavily populated and we are talking seemingly interdependent populations trading goods and what have you just as we do here. With such numbers would it not strain their galaxy's native resources just as we have done here I'm just asking and not asserting anything. And in regards to expense it just seems unlikely that such a thing as the Death Star would be cheap and inexpensive by any standards again this is strictly an observation and I'm not asserting anything.

[Eleventh Century Remnant]

Bats, depends how far out the fighter screen met the rebel strike- but that's grasping at straws, in principle you're right.

I suppose I was hoping for some shred of justification for a command performance, by everyone involved except Vader, that...'paralytically unprofessional' is the best description that comes to mind.

Oh, and; if you can come up with a sensible, worked- out estimate of how much it actually costs to achieve the reality- defying capabilities claimed for the Sun Crusher, I'll eat my hat. One of the steel ones.

World Devastators seem to have been a genuinely good idea, but for some command and control problems (again...) and the other minor matter that as before, you start on the outside of the planetary shield. That and I always wondered, shouldn't they need tanker support as well? Unless they have their own hypermatter crackers on board, they have to.

What was the name of the overgrown ion cannon in the Marvel comics, the Tarkin? If it has the power to get through planetary shielding, it might manage not to explode the planet inside- do massive damage, surely, but leave it in fit state for reuse.

Actually, a thought; how well would a gravitic weapon- like the West End derived, mention-only two wave grav shock device- bypass planetary shields, if at all?
If it would, then I think we may have a winner- lay down a sufficiently intense tidal pull on the planetary shield generator, or more likely one node of the shield generator network, to wreck it, repeat as necessary to kill overlap and backups, and commence the assault landing from there.

[PunkMaister]

Bats, depends how far out the fighter screen met the rebel strike- but that's grasping at straws, in principle you're right.

I suppose I was hoping for some shred of justification for a command performance, by everyone involved except Vader, that...'paralytically unprofessional' is the best description that comes to mind.

Oh, and; if you can come up with a sensible, worked- out estimate of how much it actually costs to achieve the reality- defying capabilities claimed for the Sun Crusher, I'll eat my hat. One of the steel ones.

World Devastators seem to have been a genuinely good idea, but for some command and control problems (again...) and the other minor matter that as before, you start on the outside of the planetary shield. That and I always wondered, shouldn't they need tanker support as well? Unless they have their own hypermatter crackers on board, they have to.

What was the name of the overgrown ion cannon in the Marvel comics, the Tarkin? If it has the power to get through planetary shielding, it might manage not to explode the planet inside- do massive damage, surely, but leave it in fit state for reuse.

Actually, a thought; how well would a gravitic weapon- like the West End derived, mention-only two wave grav shock device- bypass planetary shields, if at all?
If it would, then I think we may have a winner- lay down a sufficiently intense tidal pull on the planetary shield generator, or more likely one node of the shield generator network, to wreck it, repeat as necessary to kill overlap and backups, and commence the assault landing from there.

Well I do not have figures but a sun crusher is not even remotely as big as a Death Star so less resources are being drained, less personnel make that no personnel as it is a self guided missile type weapon is it not? compared to thousands if not millions of soldiers and other personnel which otherwise you need to feed, clothe, pay etc, etc. Looking from that perspective the Sun Crushers look far cheaper in both money and resources to make, not to mention maintain again this is just an observation I'm not making assertions of any kind.

[Ghost Rider]

Someone mentioned resources and I wanted to get to that. The Death Star's massive size and maintenance requirements must require tons of money and resources to be poured into it to keep it running.

A small amount given that the Emperor was able to build a second one in secret.

As I understand the Star Wars Galaxy is being run dry of resources by it's inhabitants just as we are doing here to our own planet

Prove this assertion.

so how feasible and cost effective is it as far as weapons platforms go say compared to other imperial weapons systems such as Sun Crushers and World Devastators? Economics like it or not always have to come into play one way or another, does it not?

Again demonstrate LACK of resources before using it as the crux of your arguement.

It is just I have heard around the grapevine anyway the Corusca galaxy does seem pretty heavily populated and we are talking seemingly interdependent populations trading goods and what have you just as we do here. With such numbers would it not strain their galaxy's native resources just as we have done here I'm just asking and not asserting anything. And in regards to expense it just seems unlikely that such a thing as the Death Star would be cheap and inexpensive by any standards again this is strictly an observation and I'm not asserting anything.

So you're literally trolling for a response?

Time to either demonstrate what you want or this goes the way of the dodo.

[PunkMaister]

So you're literally trolling for a response?

Time to either demonstrate what you want or this goes the way of the dodo.

Trolling? Look I simply do not understand what is it that you want from me, I did not post this to start any kind of trouble or any kind of war I was simply curious about the DS and how did it stack up as weapon and how cost effective it was in comparison to other SW weapon systems. I regret having caused such a horrible disaster I apologize and you can lock this thread now, again my bad!

[Batman]

That would be a lot more convincing if you hadn't insisted the DS was a noticeable (leave alone SERIOUS) drain on Imperial resources when virtually all of the available canon says no it wasn't.

[PunkMaister]

That would be a lot more convincing if you hadn't insisted the DS was a noticeable (leave alone SERIOUS) drain on Imperial resources when virtually all of the available canon says no it wasn't.

Did I? I never meant for it sound that way but it seems at least practically speaking that making a Sun Crusher should be far cheaper than making and maintaining a DS and it's personnel. Again sorry for my horrible crimes against humanity, this thread can be locked now...

[The Romulan Republic]

To answer your questions about the Death Star: yes, it would be expensive, but the Galaxy has lots of resources to spare. Perhaps (understandably), you are failing to comprehend just how big a galaxy is. The Star Wars galaxy has billions of Stars. Yet the Empire has only 51 million worlds, correct? Their are probably a lot of unexploited resources out their.

And the cost was clearly not more than the Empire could afford. They built two, plus at least one prototype. The Second and largest Death Star was mostly operational in 6 months. And as has been mentioned, it was built in secret. A Death Star is expensive, sure, but easily affordable for a nation on the scale of the Galactic Empire.

As for comparing the cost of the Death Star to other super weapons, I'm not sure their's any way to do that. I would personally guess that the Sun Crusher was extremely expensive, given that it employed very rare and probably experimental technology. The World Devestators were probably much less expensive than the Death Star, but also would not have been as effective at breaching planetary defenses.

Their, I hope that answers your questions.

[Ghost Rider]

Locking because the idiot creator requested such.

As is Eleventh Century Remnant put it succiently when he said

The Death Star is basically a politics bypass device, through which punitive action can be taken swiftly, at great economy of time and talk if not necessarily resources.