Of the Force and Force like powers in StarGate etc...

[PunkMaister]

By now anybody that watched the last 2 seasons of SG-1 cannot deny that the abillities and powers that Priors and other Pre-ascended beings is eerily similar if not identical to the SW force of all things! One thing is for certain Priors and Pre-ascended beings are tapping into something that cannot be explained as simple ESP powers.

We have seen Priors do very force like things such as lifting people several feet off the ground such as this:
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We have seen them doing something identical to a force choke like this:
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And even create what could only be described as force lighting storms like the one unleashed by Daneil Jackson after he melded his mind with Merlin's like this:
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Or create things that can only be described as "Force" force fields to deflect bullets or even the attack by another Pre ascended being such as here:

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So does anyone has any theories as to how do any of the Priors or Pre-ascended beings even manage to do what they do? What if anything could they be tapping into to do it? Anyone?

[Samuel]

Or create things that can only be described as "Force" force fields to deflect bullets or even the attack by another Pre ascended being such as here:

That sounds just like shields. Given the Gould could do the same thing with technology, I doubt that- or the others- is the anything magical like the force. More likely just some cool toys.

[PunkMaister]

Or create things that can only be described as "Force" force fields to deflect bullets or even the attack by another Pre ascended being such as here:

That sounds just like shields. Given the Gould could do the same thing with technology, I doubt that- or the others- is the anything magical like the force. More likely just some cool toys.

Well they are not toys I assure you they are using strictly their minds and no gadgets whatsoever to acomplish such "force" force fields "force" lightning like storms and so on. Anubis son had no Staff of any kind and could do just about the same things as a Prior unaided by any tech. The same goes for Priors without a Staff, Adria and Michael Jackson so the answer is most definitely not gadgets...

[Ford Prefect]

By now anybody that watched the last 2 seasons of SG-1 cannot deny that the abillities and powers that Priors and other Pre-ascended beings is eerily similar if not identical to the SW force of all things!

I hear that Star Wars invented magic.

So does anyone has any theories as to how do any of the Priors or Pre-ascended beings even manage to do what they do?

It's magic. The Priors have their powers granted to them by a pantheon of gods powered by D&D mechanics, and the various others such as those mutants and Anubis' son have generic psychic powers granted to them by their genetic engineering.

[Revy]

In universe explanation is that BS story about humans only using 5-10% of their brains, and magic users use 90% or more of their brains power. These 'higher' brain functions give them their fancy magic abilities. They ram this explanation so far down our throats it even becomes a plot point - they make a sound wave machine that disrupts the part of the brain responsible for ESP, depriving Priors, Daniel AND Adria of their funky powers. They trot out this same explanation in Atlantis too (McKay and that Seer who predicted things).

It's complete nonsense, but it's sci-fi. Hell, Stargate even begins to approach Trek level garbage with species being on an evoloutionary 'path' to Ascension. Despite the fact that evoloution isn't geared to a predestinned path and just makes things up as it goes along. That's TV writers for you, too lazy to spend five minutes online or ... y'know, just remember what they were taught at school.

In universe though, the Anubis brain scanner and the fact that their anti-prior device worked, pretty much confirms that in SG magic powers come from juiced up nuts, not the Force.

[Zac Naloen]

It's complete nonsense, but it's sci-fi. Hell, Stargate even begins to approach Trek level garbage with species being on an evoloutionary 'path' to Ascension. Despite the fact that evoloution isn't geared to a predestinned path and just makes things up as it goes along. That's TV writers for you, too lazy to spend five minutes online or ... y'know, just remember what they were taught at school.

I always figured that once people found out about ascension they were constantly guiding their evolution. The Ancients especially used genetic engineering according to Atlantis.

It's not automatic by any means, just look at the Asgard.

[PunkMaister]

It's complete nonsense, but it's sci-fi. Hell, Stargate even begins to approach Trek level garbage with species being on an evoloutionary 'path' to Ascension. Despite the fact that evoloution isn't geared to a predestinned path and just makes things up as it goes along. That's TV writers for you, too lazy to spend five minutes online or ... y'know, just remember what they were taught at school.

I always figured that once people found out about ascension they were constantly guiding their evolution. The Ancients especially used genetic engineering according to Atlantis.

It's not automatic by any means, just look at the Asgard.

True but there is no way to explain how just plain ESP can create Force like lightning storms out of thin air. I never implied it was the "Force" as it is in Star Wars because first of all that would be copyright infringement but that it may work on a similar principle, say for example we have in the show the so called ZPMs (Zero point modules) that derive their energy from another dimension what if more or less the same principle applies to how Pre-Ascended beings do what they do. Their brains somehow tap into this dimension and use that power to levitate things or whatever...

[Zac Naloen]

It's complete nonsense, but it's sci-fi. Hell, Stargate even begins to approach Trek level garbage with species being on an evoloutionary 'path' to Ascension. Despite the fact that evoloution isn't geared to a predestinned path and just makes things up as it goes along. That's TV writers for you, too lazy to spend five minutes online or ... y'know, just remember what they were taught at school.

I always figured that once people found out about ascension they were constantly guiding their evolution. The Ancients especially used genetic engineering according to Atlantis.

It's not automatic by any means, just look at the Asgard.

True but there is no way to explain how just plain ESP can create Force like lightning storms out of thin air. I never implied it was the "Force" as it is in Star Wars because first of all that would be copyright infringement but that it may work on a similar principle, say for example we have in the show the so called ZPMs (Zero point modules) that derive their energy from another dimension what if more or less the same principle applies to how Pre-Ascended beings do what they do. Their brains somehow tap into this dimension and use that power to levitate things or whatever...

Easiest explanation for me that explains the powers of near ascendants is that they gain some of the more material abilities possesed ascendeds purely by being "near" enlightenment. Which they access via magic. Souls are real in Stargate, and personally i'd rather they didn't cheapen it by explaining it in detail.

[PunkMaister]

Easiest explanation for me that explains the powers of near ascendants is that they gain some of the more material abilities possesed ascendeds purely by being "near" enlightenment. Which they access via magic. Souls are real in Stargate, and personally i'd rather they didn't cheapen it by explaining it in detail.

Cheapen it? Is that how you feel for example about how they explained the Force and so called Midiclorians in Star Wars? Souls as far as I know they are also real in Star Wars too anyway since we saw Luke talking to Obi Wan after he was dead. in Star Wars they call it becoming one with the force but is essentially going to a higher plain of existence.

[NecronLord]

Cheapen it? Is that how you feel for example about how they explained the Force and so called Midiclorians in Star Wars? Souls as far as I know they are also real in Star Wars too anyway since we saw Luke talking to Obi Wan after he was dead. in Star Wars they call it becoming one with the force but is essentially going to a higher plain of existence.

What he means is; It literally cannot be explained without invoking yet more magic (like the force) so why bother? Any explanation will be crummy and hokey anyway.

It's magic. It's operation is beyond our comprehension. What more do you need?

Do you also need a detailed explanation of how subspace communications works? It's made up, just accept that it's clarketech and work from there. So long as its effects are consistant and further the plot, it's all good.

[PunkMaister]

What he means is; It literally cannot be explained without invoking yet more magic (like the force) so why bother? Any explanation will be crummy and hokey anyway.

It's magic. It's operation is beyond our comprehension. What more do you need?

Do you also need a detailed explanation of how subspace communications works? It's made up, just accept that it's clarketech and work from there. So long as its effects are consistant and further the plot, it's all good.

True but I was never looking for an official explanation as I know that is not possible I was simply asking what possible theories fellow fans of the franchise may or may not have about it. I should have made that clearer in hindsight. For example people have discussed what the 9th chevron is for and all kind of theories have come out (as it turns out a lot of those better than what the execs and writers have finally seemed to come up with, with their next SG franchise Voyager Style show installment but that's Hollywood for you. Cheers and thx to everyone for the feedback...

[NecronLord]

True but I was never looking for an official explanation as I know that is not possible I was simply asking what possible theories fellow fans of the franchise may or may not have about it.

Why bother with such conjecture?

We can (and have made efforts to in the past) measure Prior abilities, but working out how they operate? Seems pointless, as such ideas would have no weight whatsoever.

But as you're after something more substantive, my imagining is:

Mind powers are produced by tapping into subspace energy (the same energy that one can draw from to power ships The Daedalus Variations) and projecting it through space. Ascended individuals are subspace constructs (hence they can be neutralised by suitable weapons) of one type or another (Asuran ascension, as in Ghost in the Machine, failed due to deliberate interference of the Ascended Ancients, not because of any real flaw in its system).

As such, there are actually genetic changes required to ascend, the Ancients having refined this from initial efforts to induce telekinesis and other abilities (millions of years ago) to becoming energy creatures.

To gain these mind powers, structures are created in the brain (see the tumors created by Nirrti) that manage them. However, some ascended creatures simply create those in individuals that would not otherwise have them (Oma, the Ori). This is also how the Nox exist, their abilities in this regard are actually substantially more advanced than the mortal Ancients' ever were, and they could easily ascend, but as a culture (individuals do, on occasion) have no wish to become energy squids. They simply use it as the useful technology it is.

In my fan-fiction, the Asurans also have the abilities of their creators, but their conciousness is far more computer like, and rather than accessing a pre-programmed, autonomic function of the organ such as, 'heal' or 'move' they must deliberately account for every factor of energy flow and force exterted, which means they generally can't be bothered. Conversely, they're rather powerful when they actually do such things; they're not dependant on specific organic structures and their limitations; they'd preffer to generate a burst of heat than push someone, because it's far simpler, if less flexible and useful.

Wraith have similar abilities, inherited from the Ancients, but largely employ them to a form a sub-space sensory link, and some telepathy with their victims (Kneel!).

Priors are substantially more developed than the mortal Ancients were, though the process of becoming one is typically intense enough to leave surface scarring and other tissue damage around the facial region. They're further augmented by technological devices that duplicate their own abilities (their wizards staves) and include potent healing devices (derived from the 'zombie-making cube' as Goa'uld sarcophagi are) and a system to passively draw power from those around them: as the Book of Origin says, the Ori created the humans in their galaxy. What it doesn't mention, is that they're also not baseline, they're designed to draw subspace energy in the same way, and auomatically filter it to any Prior's staff (or similar device, of which there are many) on the same world, which then transfers it to the Ori. Eventually, they planned to alter humans in the Milky Way in the same manner.

But frankly, I just made all that up, and it has no more value than anyone else's insane gibberings. And I'd certainly not want the show to come out with such a spiel.

The only possible reason I can think of for caring is if (as I am, actually, I should do more of that) one wishes to write some sort of stargate fanfic in which an educated person (in my particular case, an Asuran) attempts to explain it.

[PunkMaister]

Wow the theory about subspace being the source they tap into for their powers is awesome I like it! And yes off course you made all that up but is still pretty darn sound, I mean there some ASG/SW crossovers that have Pre-Ascended beings actually using the force of all things is all very open ended as the execs and writers never bothered to explain it and given what we have seen what they have done with the 9th chevron I hope they never do.