One day an Object appears

[Bilbo]

I send a shuttle mission and have an astronaut do a spacewalk mission on one of the objects, trying to open it up. What happens?

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

The Object appears to be completely sealed with no obvious access points. Are you willing to cut into the Object?

I am assuming you are talking about the first copy. Also, the Copy does not respond to your approach but the Object in lunar orbit moves itself so that it has a direct line of sight with the copy and the shuttle.

What is the location of the second copy relative to the first?

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

It is orbiting the Earth but staying directly between the Earth and the moon. The origional Object quickly accelerated its orbit to get the Shuttle within line-of-sight once the shuttle was within 100 miles of the copy.

[The Romulan Republic]

Do the objects have energy shields and/or defensive weapons?

[Bilbo]

Do the objects have energy shields and/or defensive weapons?

The Object (origional and copies) are rectangular boxes the size of a greyhound bus. The origional seems to open on one end where smaller non-descript boxes are pulled out and assembled.

Neither the Object nor its copies have any surface features or appear to be radiating any energy that can be detected.

[fgalkin]

Considering that the object did not appear to harm the probe and has no visible weapons, I would indeed risk cutting into the copy.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

[Bilbo]

Considering that the object did not appear to harm the probe and has no visible weapons, I would indeed risk cutting into the copy.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

As you approach within 10 miles of the copy the Origional turns and points the side that opens at the shuttle.

[Swindle1984]

I stick the biggest nukes we've got on huge boosters, get them into orbit, and then send them flying at the objects, ready to detonate as soon as they're within effective range.

Multiple nukes per object.

Meanwhile, I'm filling Cold War bunkers with food, water, ammunition, and other supplies as quickly as possible while rounding up chunks of the population and stowing them away for the survival of the species. Other nations have been warned to do the same.

[Formless]

LOL, throw nukes at a spacecraft of unknown power. Haven't you people considered the possibility that the last victims might have tried something similar, and provoked the probes wrath as a result? Although there is reason to assume hostility on the part of the senders of the probe due to the message attached by the last victims*, there is also sufficient reason to believe that it is more powerful than us as well, considering its self replicating abilities, wormhole tech, and its apparent ability to glass planetary surfaces. There is no reason to think that a nuke will magically put it out of action, but it will definitely be considered an act of aggression by whatever AI is driving that thing. If we can survive the assault, it will be to the advantage of the human race to grab the wormhole tech for study and eventual reverse engineering, so I think I would support sending the shuttle up to poke around like fgalkin is doing. While I am at it, I would prep the shuttle with some kind of message probe of our own we can attach to the thing, so that if we bite the bullet at least the next unfortunate civilization the probe goes after has adequate warning. Said message will have a record of the last race to get hit as well so they know how many species have been attacked by this menace. Who knows? Maybe they won't be as vulnerable as we are, and can stop the rampage when we couldn't.

* Might I point out that we can't necessarily trust the account of the last people who were attacked? For all we know they did provoke the thing, and their leaders had too much pride to inform us. Maybe they were at war with the attack probe's makers, and their account is therefor biased. Or, heck, can we really rule out the possibility that they don't actually exist, and were made up by the senders of the attack probe as a trick to make us panic or attack it? We don't really know what its mission is for sure, so we can't say what purpose its makers have in mind. For example, it could just be an experiment to see how we react to unknown powers. And that isn't taking into account what fun might happen if the probe were from the future (wormholes can do that, you know.).

[The Romulan Republic]

Fair enough. Take nothing for granted in a situation like this. But their should be nukes ready to deploy immediately, should attempts at communication or capture fail.

[Sky Captain]

Given how hugely more advanced civilization who sent that doomsday probe (wormhole tech, capability to manufacture small warheads with teraton level of explosive power) is I think our options are limited to building survival shelters since it`s more or less certain anyone who manufactured that probe will have incorporated some effective means to defend from relatively primitive attack. To avoid our nuclear missile attacks all is needed is some sensors and drive system with decent acceleration and delta v.

[Bilbo]

To make things interesting. Ask any questions you want in the thread. Once you learn what you think you know send me a PM with what you do to deal with this situation.

I will respond to your "resolution" in thread with your name and whether or not your Earth survives. We can see who survives and if more than one person does who comes off the best.

[Vultur]

Can its composition be determined spectroscopically?

If it was of really unusual density (neutron-star-matter density, say) this should be detectable also. Is it?

[Vultur]

LOL, throw nukes at a spacecraft of unknown power. Haven't you people considered the possibility that the last victims might have tried something similar, and provoked the probes wrath as a result? Although there is reason to assume hostility on the part of the senders of the probe due to the message attached by the last victims*, there is also sufficient reason to believe that it is more powerful than us as well, considering its self replicating abilities, wormhole tech, and its apparent ability to glass planetary surfaces. There is no reason to think that a nuke will magically put it out of action,

Well ... a direct nuke hit would take out anything made of 'normal' matter that size. If they can shape technology from neutronium or use some sort of Clarke-Law tech force fields ... we're screwed anyway.

[Bilbo]

Can its composition be determined spectroscopically?

If it was of really unusual density (neutron-star-matter density, say) this should be detectable also. Is it?

The outside appears to be made of some sort of ceramic or something similar enough that a difference cannot be determined. When the one end is open the "inside" of the doors appear to be the same material. Inside the Object is completely opaque to every attempt to view inside. Small "bricks" float out of and it is similar to something rising out of perfectly smooth black liquid, but without any ripples.

[FaxModem1]

Is the object making any broadcasts or responding to any?

If it is, I would have whoever devised the whole contact with an alien race protocol(SETI maybe), and have them talk to the probe.

Where is it getting the material to build the copies? Is it all packed away in its interior or is it mining or harvesting from some other source?

I have us call other nations so we can monitor the object as it circles. Or is it staying in geosynchronous orbit? I also pray to god the Chinese or the Russians don't do anything stupid and ask them officially to let us handle it seeing as how we have the most experience with space and technology.

To the public at large the press release is that an object of extra-terrestrial origin has arrived. Whether it is biological, mechanical or not, hostile or not, is yet to be determined and all we can ask is that everyone remain calm and continue as normal. If you have something to contribute, please let your local government know.

I have NORAD and NASA get the nukes on standby, better safe than sorry.

Shelters are built, like said above, with local plant and animal life, along with a copy of out history, science, art, literature and anything else mankind has achieved.

Transmissions to the object will be severly regulated by the US government, we don't need some idiot somewhere deciding to get the entire world nuked.

[Formless]

Well ... a direct nuke hit would take out anything made of 'normal' matter that size. If they can shape technology from neutronium or use some sort of Clarke-Law tech force fields ... we're screwed anyway.

Bzzzzt, Earth to moron, but in space nukes generally kill via radiation, and if the ship isn't manned its mechanisms could rather easily be radiation hardened (and probably are). Further, why shouldn't those above possibilities that you named (armor, ray shielding) be ruled out at this point? There are no grounds to base the assumption that a direct hit with a nuke will kill anything just because it is a nuke, that is just human centric arrogance. And even more to the point, you don't know what kind of point defenses it has hidden in there which would really make nukes moot fast. A probe designed for attack purposes isn't going to be a sitting duck, you know, any level headed designer is going to equip it for the eventuality of armed resistance, so defensive measures should be assumed as long as we think that its purpose is to nuke the living shit out of us. Hell, it could just tell its internal factory to produce missiles and drones of its own to throw at our missile bus. Or, if its engines can spit out enough delta-v, make a quick burn and no longer be where we want it to be, thus meaning that there are no assurances of a direct hit like you are shooting for.

Let me put it this way: the game we are playing now is a classic dilemma in sci-fi called Angels and Cavemen. Whenever you make first contact with another alien race, you must always assume that you are the Caveman and until proven otherwise the other guys are Angels with better technology and more powerful guns than you. Your opponent must do the same, because if he acts hostile and you turn out to be the Angel, he's dead as dust. Therefor, first contact situations and interstellar politics will tend to be very polite for fear of destruction. However, the first rule of the game is that if you are planet bound and your opponent is not, there is no doubt that you are the Caveman. None.

Obviously in this match we humans are (relatively *) planet bound, and this probe is not. Therefor, the probe should be treated with extreme caution. If you insist on being prudent, keep the nukes on standby in case things get desperate, but keep your trigger finger in check. You don't want to find out this thing is actually peaceful and then make it change its mind by trying to blow it out of the sky.

* okay, so we do have some spaceflight capability, but we aren't exactly to the "lets get out of here with Wormholes" stage yet, so we're still undoubtedly Cavemen to this probe.

[Starglider]

Well ... a direct nuke hit would take out anything made of 'normal' matter that size. If they can shape technology from neutronium or use some sort of Clarke-Law tech force fields ... we're screwed anyway.

Bzzzzt, Earth to moron, but in space nukes generally kill via radiation,

He did say 'direct hit'. A multimegaton nuclear device initiating at a range of a few metres will not only generate extreme levels of hard x-rays, it will also engulf the target in the plasma fireball and generate a neutron flux so intense that major unavoidable elemental transmutation will occur in the target.

if the ship isn't manned its mechanisms could rather easily be radiation hardened (and probably are). Further, why shouldn't those above possibilities that you named (armor, ray shielding) be ruled out at this point?

Vultur is correct, there is no way you can 'harden' an object that size against a multimegaton proximity explosion; it could be a solid block of tungsten (or even metallic hydrogen) and it would still be completely vaporised. There are only three ways it could survive; outrunning the incoming missile, destroying the incoming missile, or relying on super-physics humanity has yet to discover the slightest inkling of (stable strange matter and force fields are in this category).

There are no grounds to base the assumption that a direct hit with a nuke will kill anything just because it is a nuke, that is just human centric arrogance.

Actually there are quite good grounds, we have yet to discover even a hint of a mechanism that would allow any object to survive such a hit. That doesn't make it a sure thing but it's a fair bet. A far more likely problem is the device not allowing the nuke to approach closely or initiate correctly; technologically, this is much easier than surviving the blast.

Hell, it could just tell its internal factory to produce missiles and drones of its own to throw at our missile bus.

That is subject to mass restrictions. That said it doesn't take much mass to kill a warhead, given sufficiently advanced guidance and propulsion, and we only have a couple of thousand missiles capable of reaching it.

[Starglider]

I'm pretty sure we don't have anything close to launch capability for lunar orbit right now, meaning nuking it isn't really possible.

I'm pretty sure we do. It's much easier than sending probes to Mars, and we do that regularly with standard commercial launchers. Of course the number of launchers available on short notice will probably be single digits, rather than the thousand plus (ICBMs) that can hit something at LEO altitude.

[Formless]

He did say 'direct hit'. *snip description of a direct hit*

True, but again, if that thing has decent engines in it there little chance of us achieving a direct hit. That is why I assumed we would more likely shoot for a radiation kill since it is far easier. Not to mention the issue of point defenses that you conceded were still an issue. Preemptive nuking is a dubious and risky solution.

That is subject to mass restrictions.

Its getting mass from somewhere to make full scale copies of itself (a sustained wormhole inside the machine perhaps?). Therefor, it seems reasonable that it could spare mass to make other objects as well.

[Grog]

He did say 'direct hit'. *snip description of a direct hit*

True, but again, if that thing has decent engines in it there little chance of us achieving a direct hit. That is why I assumed we would more likely shoot for a radiation kill since it is far easier. Not to mention the issue of point defenses that you conceded were still an issue. Preemptive nuking is a dubious and risky solution.

That is subject to mass restrictions.

Its getting mass from somewhere to make full scale copies of itself (a sustained wormhole inside the machine perhaps?). Therefor, it seems reasonable that it could spare mass to make other objects as well.

The other aliens managed to attach stuff to the objects and it apparently doesn't try to avoid the space shuttle. Just send a shuttle loaded with nukes and attach nukes on all the objects and then detonate or something like that.

[Formless]

The other aliens managed to attach stuff to the objects and it apparently doesn't try to avoid the space shuttle. Just send a shuttle loaded with nukes and attach nukes on all the objects and then detonate or something like that.

Well... that could work. But in the interest of getting some info on that wormhole tech, I would prefer to not blow it up until we have a chance to study it. The nukes are still a last resort option to capture or communication.

And if you will look again, you will see that it did react to the shuttle:

I am assuming you are talking about the first copy. Also, the Copy does not respond to your approach but the Object in lunar orbit moves itself so that it has a direct line of sight with the copy and the shuttle.

*

As you approach within 10 miles of the copy the Origional turns and points the side that opens at the shuttle.

we just don't know if that reaction is a sign of hostility yet.

* emphasis added

[Bilbo]

Is the object making any broadcasts or responding to any?

If it is, I would have whoever devised the whole contact with an alien race protocol(SETI maybe), and have them talk to the probe.

Where is it getting the material to build the copies? Is it all packed away in its interior or is it mining or harvesting from some other source?

I have us call other nations so we can monitor the object as it circles. Or is it staying in geosynchronous orbit? I also pray to god the Chinese or the Russians don't do anything stupid and ask them officially to let us handle it seeing as how we have the most experience with space and technology.

To the public at large the press release is that an object of extra-terrestrial origin has arrived. Whether it is biological, mechanical or not, hostile or not, is yet to be determined and all we can ask is that everyone remain calm and continue as normal. If you have something to contribute, please let your local government know.

I have NORAD and NASA get the nukes on standby, better safe than sorry.

Shelters are built, like said above, with local plant and animal life, along with a copy of out history, science, art, literature and anything else mankind has achieved.

Transmissions to the object will be severly regulated by the US government, we don't need some idiot somewhere deciding to get the entire world nuked.

There are no detectable transmissions coming from the Object or its copies.

As for resource, you have no idea. It is not harvesting in any way you can see. It is like someone was pouring water out of a magic glass that never empties.

Any and all transmissions to the Object are completely ignored by the object. Either it cannot hear you or it doesnt give a shit what you have to say.

[Bilbo]

The other aliens managed to attach stuff to the objects and it apparently doesn't try to avoid the space shuttle. Just send a shuttle loaded with nukes and attach nukes on all the objects and then detonate or something like that.

To make clear. The Plates suggest that the aliens attached something to the origional Object. The Plates give no indication of what they might have tried to do to any copies or what happened when they did.

[TheMuffinKing]

What if we send a rocket to the object and attempt to make physical contact with said rocket. Now assuming we can make contact with the object with a rocket, and I don't mean ram it, can the object be pushed by the rocket? Assume we launch the most powerful commercial lifter we have.

[Vultur]

Well, I've always had serious doubts about the 'angels or cavemen' thing because it implies that technology can go on increasing - and increasing quickly - pretty much indefinitely, which I really really doubt. There's no reason to assume they have extra technology besides what's been shown. Anyway, if they *DO* we're doomed anyway, so we might as well act as if we're closer to their level.

[Formless]

Well, I've always had serious doubts about the 'angels or cavemen' thing because it implies that technology can go on increasing - and increasing quickly - pretty much indefinitely, which I really really doubt. There's no reason to assume they have extra technology besides what's been shown. Anyway, if they *DO* we're doomed anyway, so we might as well act as if we're closer to their level.

Angels or Cavemen isn't just about how advanced your technology is, you know. Its really more about how old your civilization is and how much resources they have, i.e. how high up the kardeshev scale they are. Our civilization has only been around for a few thousand years at most, and our species was literal cavemen for most of its existence. That isn't very much time in astronomic terms, and there could easily be civilizations out there with thousands of years existence on us, with all the history and knowledge *edit*experience*edit* that implies. Really, its not that hard to see that more is better, even if quality peaks (which I find dubious, personally).

At any rate, if you are planet bound and the other guy isn't, what are you really going to do to him, Caveman? Numerous sci-fi threads around here have established the tactical/strategic importance of dominating the orbit of a planet, and if the other guy can freely roam space with fusion torch ships you are undeniably screwed. Think about it. The gravitational potential energy from orbit means that all they have to do is drop shit on us as long as it can survive entry of the atmosphere. Are you going to argue with a power that can drop fucking mountains on you? (or in this case teraton level nukes) Get real. You are better playing it safe and not preemptively blowing shit up, even if you have that option (as we apparently do here).