Secular republic? Tell that to the history books and the Christian spin doctors that wrote them. American children are bombarded with religious references when learning American History, and every colony is specifically mentioned to be the safe refuge for one presently unpopular religion from the persecution of Europe. Tell a fundamentalist here that we have religious freedom in this country and they think it meant the freedom to choose your brand of Christianity. I've met preachers who swear that in the early country, every law passed had to have a Biblical justification. I was talking to a christian friend just yesterday and trying to explain how secular a phrase like "we hold these truths to be self evident" is in an official document, and he said that of course what was self evident was that they were truths ordained by God. It's utterly ridiculous.Akkleptos wrote:It is. There are always zealots, but in most civilised countries religious meddling is next to nothing compared to what it is in the US, AFAIK, even in countries that have political parties called or "Democristian". By the way, any kind of mention of religion in a political campaign is prohibited by law in Mexico and parties resorting to such tactis are heavily fined. Why the US politics are so interrelated with religion and religious groups is a mystery to me, with the US having been founded originally as a secular republic, by secular, literate, well-educated, forwards-thinking people.ASULaoTzu wrote:Pardon my ignorance, but I've been told that religion is much less prevalent in politics outside the US. Is that true, or are there Pat Robertson clones in every country? How seriously are they taken, and do they say shit as stupid as he does?
But even that expands the conflict into some epic struggle when really, terrorism is a law enforcement problem, not a military conflict. Law enforcement is a regular enough function of society that the objective of a terrorist, even if the act is carried out, is still thwarted. As it is, the public is scared shitless of Muslims on planes and buses, and Muslims are irritated every time they see an American tank rolling down their street. Add to that the terrorist leaders telling everyone that the Americans are slaughtering civilians by the dozens and that this is a heavenly conflict between the east and the west, Islam and the evil foreign crusaders and you've got a powder keg. It doesn't help our goal of bringing peace if our leaders are saying the same thing; that this is a heavenly conflict between Christians and the false prophets of Islam, it just serves to radicalize them.Akkleptos wrote:Yeah, that kind of position is ridiculous. Some would say, however, that the thing is not a mere religious confrontation between Christiandom and Islam, but more of a clash of civilisations, a conflict between opposite cosmovisions. In that sense, we could talk of a real conflict between the democratic, industrialised and mostly secular West and the religious, mystic Islamic world.ASULaoTzu wrote:I thought Robertson's career would have been over when he linked the 9/11 attacks to homosexuality. I thought that he would be self-sacrificing enough and engage in the patriotism he claims by not trying to frame this as a religious war and completely validate what Osama Bin Laden has been saying. The fact that he insists on making America the Christian target for Muslims to pit themselves against is the epitome of stupidity and self-obsession.
It would be better if we would pull religion out of it, and frame this as a conflict between a bunch of hillbilly outlaws who are murdering children in between long bouts of goat sex and the forces of rationality and civility and peace. Imagine how much easier this would be if muslims saw Osama Bin Laden and Al Qaeda like we see Strom Thurman and the KKK; a bunch of racist murderers who should be put down like dogs so we can get back to the business of doing shit.
The American Republican party can still be a party of peace if they drop religion. Religion just inflames people, whereas if they revert to their capitalist ideals, that's a real seller. Capitalism is the number one force of peace in the world. Why would America never go to war with China? Because China and America both make waaaay too much money off of each other. Trade agreements are better for peace than actual peace treaties.
Unfortunately, I think there is more just that "route" to atheism and yes, as you note, it's easily on the same intellectual plane as Islam, New Age mysticism and watered-down Christianity. With history and anthropology as a guide, the religious / supernatural mindset is simply endemic to the human condition; we should get used to having to disassociate ourselves from the dumber shit some atheists might say. (re: Dane Cook's stand-up bit about an atheist achieving some pseudo-immortality by having his dead and buried biomass... eventually grow into a plant or tree 
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