nBSG ep 4.14 - "Blood on the Scales" talkback (SPOILERS)

[J Ryan]

Last episode population count 39,643.

This episode 39,603.

Seems a bit low for anything but the most bloodless coup.

[Gaidin]

Last episode population count 39,643.

This episode 39,603.

Seems a bit low for anything but the most bloodless coup.

After holding off and watching both eps back to back, I get the impression they never had the personnel to well and truly hold the Galactica. They went for key areas, made their beachhead to get zarek and the quorum on/off board and had CIC and the Brig(only visually confirmed areas...I think they were just isolating Engineering after trying to take it but I could be wrong). From there they pretty much escorted people to the places they needed to be. That and...I'm not sure you can secure a ship the size of Galactica in less than 8 hours(if I'm reading the time stamps for the show right) with even a supermajority support. Not if someone really wanted to make you work for it.

[Themightytom]

Last episode population count 39,643.

This episode 39,603.

Seems a bit low for anything but the most bloodless coup.

well that was before the 12 Quorum members, and the full death toll aboard the galactica may not have been in, but the whole coup basically took place onboard the galactica anyway.

[His Divine Shadow]

1. Earth is nuked as said before.

2. More importantly Earth is deserted. No 13th tribe to protect the Fleet from Cavil. and Cavil is chasing them .

Well there are still these issues:
-There is someone out there that was able to build Starbuck a brand new Viper.
-There is someone out there who possibly ressurected Starbuck or made a really good copy of her.
-There is someone out there who can make a radio that cannot be jammed (indicating superior tech to both cylon and colonials).
-All the final five cylons came into being somehow, by someone or something.

Earth is nuked but there is something out there thats very capable and potent.

[His Divine Shadow]

The stress fractures that Tyrol discovered will . . . prevent the Bucket from receiving the Cylon FTL upgrade, forcing Adama to leave it behind while the rest of the fleet jumps away from Cavel and in search of a new home? Or in order to keep the fleet protected by Galactica, to the extent that it can, scrap the upgrade idea and force a slow retreat through normal space?

It could mean anything, it could mean Galactica is fucked right now, nothing can be done, or it means they'll require Cylon upgrades now since without a serious overhaul they are dead in the water, or it means they cannot receive the upgrades because of the damage and will thusly slow down the upgraded fleet.

[Thanas]

Romo Lampkin. My god, he (as always) ruled every scene he was in.

Loved the scene with Baltar at the end. What an amazing performance by both actors.

[Anguirus]

Watched it again...couple interesting points.

There is a line somewhere about "10 out of 35" ships siding with Roslin. I thought the fleet had more like 65 ships.

Also, in retrospect the dark-haired Six may not be a Head Six because she's not accompanied by the theme music...still, she def. interacts only with Baltar.

The red-shirted Leoben plays an understated but important role. The camera always shows us his reactions, in the background as Roslin speaks, and then he gives her some tech that lets her punch through the jamming and brig the standoff to its next phase.

[Thanas]

Also, in retrospect the dark-haired Six may not be a Head Six because she's not accompanied by the theme music...still, she def. interacts only with Baltar.

She is definitely not a head six.

[General Zod]

Watched it again...couple interesting points.

There is a line somewhere about "10 out of 35" ships siding with Roslin. I thought the fleet had more like 65 ships.

The fleet lost a good number of ships between leaving Caprica and reaching Earth.

[Bilbo]

New mindscrew.

Galactica is the leader that will not leave to see them complete their voyage.

Think about it no one person or group of people is as crucial to the fleet and their survival as the Galactica herself.

[Uraniun235]

I laughed at Galactica having even smaller, more cramped Jefferies Tubes than Star Trek does.


Great episode. Satisfying to see Zarek meet his end. The death of the Quorum really strikes home that we're rapidly descending towards the end of the line.

To put it into perspective, USN vessels hit the yards after every deployment. And the past 4-5years have been way more stressful on the Galactica than a 6 month peacetime cruise. Not *exactly* the same, I know, but after the first episode the damage the Galactica took would have probably mandated yard time in peacetime.

It is pretty amazing that even with less than a full crew, they've managed to keep Galactica operational even after taking an enormous beating. Between that and remarks about the extremely efficient waste recycling systems, I would imagine the ship must have been very explicitly designed to be able to fight for extended periods with minimal base support - or perhaps even serve as a sort of mobile base support for the other smaller ships in the Colonial fleet which producers have speculated probably existed before the second Cylon war.

As to the hull damage in the engineering section, I think we were supposed to notice it - Gaeta takes on a horrified look and appears to say "oh no..." under his breath as he sees it. It will be interesting to see what that develops into later.

At this point I would imagine that it's possible that, were the Colonies not destroyed, a battlestar as battered as Galactica might be considered more expensive to repair than to build a new one. Out of curiosity, how much damage (short of sinking it) would have to be done to a present-day CVN in order to total it?

[General Zod]

As to the hull damage in the engineering section, I think we were supposed to notice it - Gaeta takes on a horrified look and appears to say "oh no..." under his breath as he sees it. It will be interesting to see what that develops into later.

Uh, that was Tyrol who was down there, not Gaeta.

[Uraniun235]

Ah, I must have been thinking of Tyrol's first name, Galen, and gotten the two names mixed up.



Also I loved Roslin's threat to Zarek.

[Alyeska]

That was a very good episode. It was interesting to see the evolution of character behind Zarek. Always a favorite character of mine. He met his end as a murderer, nothing more. Played a very cool character for the entire series. Geata retained his humanity and the final two scenes. The one with Baltar where he completely forgives Baltar and they just talk. That was perfect. And the final scene with the airlock. Geata took responsibility for his actions ultimately. No pleading, just took it.

The scenes with Kelly were interesting. He hates the Cylons, but even he had to acknowledge things within his own mind. He respected Sharon. He respected Adama. He has a personal history with the Chief. The mutineers wanted him for his experience, but didn't realize he has a conscious. Kelly sided with his conscious and helped save Adama. I expect to see Kelly throughout the final episodes.

I suspect that more then Zarek and Geata die. Certain members of the mutineers will likely die for their crimes as well. Who was that who fired on the Raptor? That wasn't the pilot who also took part in the execution team was it? Anyway, that Viper pilot ought to die for following the mutiny and attempting to kill the President. The enlisted man who attacked Helo also should die. Any civilian who took part in the mutiny should face a firing squad as well.

[Anguirus]

Watched it again...couple interesting points.

There is a line somewhere about "10 out of 35" ships siding with Roslin. I thought the fleet had more like 65 ships.

The fleet lost a good number of ships between leaving Caprica and reaching Earth.

When was this?

Think about it. There's no specific mention of any being left on New Caprica, and only three or four were destroyed by Gina's nuke. Only one was lost during "The Passage," and only the Pyxis was lost in the Battle of the Ionian Nebula.

More to the point, the survivor count has only declined by 10,000 since "33," There's no way most of the people can fit onto half of the ships, because they were overcrowded even in the Miniseries. Ships have been lost, but 35 seems like a serious lowball. They would have to have left over a dozen on New Caprica.

Apparently the Wiki agrees with my analysis:

Dialogue in this episode indicates there are 35 civilian ships left in the fleet. This is the first time since abandoning New Caprice that significant information on the number of ships left in the fleet has emerged. This number doesn't seem to tally with the observed losses in the fleet since the first season, although the number of ships has been portrayed inconsistently throughout the miniseries and the main seasons (a figure in the mid 70s being mentioned in Home, Part I). The figure of 35 stated here- indicating a loss of half the fleet's ships- seems somewhat inconsistent with a the human population that has only declined by about one fifth since the arrival of Pegasus's crew which bolstered the number of survivors to close to 50,000. Ships being abandoned on New Caprica or afterwards may explain this strikingly low number unless it is a continuity error. If 35 is a correct figure, the other ships in the fleet must have somehow found a way to take a huge number of extra people aboard.

Who was that who fired on the Raptor? That wasn't the pilot who also took part in the execution team was it? Anyway, that Viper pilot ought to die for following the mutiny and attempting to kill the President.

Same guy. http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Noel_Allison

Any civilian who took part in the mutiny should face a firing squad as well.

"There's not many of us left." -Adama.

[Alyeska]

Think about it. There's no specific mention of any being left on New Caprica, and only three or four were destroyed by Gina's nuke. Only one was lost during "The Passage," and only the Pyxis was lost in the Battle of the Ionian Nebula.

Actually, they lost one ship in every single trip through "The Passage" except for the final trip.

[General Zod]

When was this?

Think about it. There's no specific mention of any being left on New Caprica, and only three or four were destroyed by Gina's nuke. Only one was lost during "The Passage," and only the Pyxis was lost in the Battle of the Ionian Nebula.

Caprica. As in the original twelve colonies when the series started out. Not New Caprica. They also left a good deal of ships behind on New Caprica as well that they'd converted and couldn't easily recover when they left.

More to the point, the survivor count has only declined by 10,000 since "33," There's no way most of the people can fit onto half of the ships, because they were overcrowded even in the Miniseries. Ships have been lost, but 35 seems like a serious lowball. They would have to have left over a dozen on New Caprica.

A lot of stuff from the miniseries has been ignored for the main part. (Glowing cylon spines anyone?) Also, wikipedia lists all the ships mentioned in the series. If you count them it comes out to about 40 something so it doesn't seem like a huge stretch.

[Alyeska]

"There's not many of us left." -Adama.

Zarek and Geata were killed. The civilians aren't critical to operating Galactica.

[Anguirus]

Also, in retrospect the dark-haired Six may not be a Head Six because she's not accompanied by the theme music...still, she def. interacts only with Baltar.

She is definitely not a head six.

Agreed...her sudden appearance was a bit bizarre though. She is not seen in the background of any Cylon CIC shots despite conversations between Laura and the Cylons going on in the same time and place. Wonder what her deal is.

Actually, they lost one ship in every single trip through "The Passage" except for the final trip.

Checked the Wiki and I stand corrected: Adriatic and Carina are the two ships lost in that episode.

Caprica. As in the original twelve colonies when the series started out. Not New Caprica.

I assure you, we are talking about the same thing. (Do note that few, if any, of the vessels in the fleet actually "left" Caprica once the attack had started, so your statement may have caused confusion...I read it as "the Colonies" however.)

[Anguirus]

Zarek and Geata were killed. The civilians aren't critical to operating Galactica.

So?

There are 40,000 humans left.

Zarek and Gaeta were the ringleaders. It appears to me that if Adama started executing everyone involved with the mutiny he wouldn't have much of a crew left. Hell, he didn't even let Tigh kill Narcho despite having all the reason in the world.

[Alyeska]

Zarek and Geata were killed. The civilians aren't critical to operating Galactica.

So?

There are 40,000 humans left.

Zarek and Gaeta were the ringleaders. It appears to me that if Adama started executing everyone involved with the mutiny he wouldn't have much of a crew left. Hell, he didn't even let Tigh kill Narcho despite having all the reason in the world.

And as I said, Narcho should be killed both for taking part in the mutiny and his direct attempt to kill both Adama and the President. So should all of those Marines.

[Lonestar]

At this point I would imagine that it's possible that, were the Colonies not destroyed, a battlestar as battered as Galactica might be considered more expensive to repair than to build a new one.

Galactica would have almost certainly been retired, what with it being worn out through decades of use, two wars, antiquated equipment...remember she was going to be a museum ship before the Second Cylon War started. She's a technological dinosaur compared to the SCW-era Basestars, and yet has managed to keep on operating.

Out of curiosity, how much damage (short of sinking it) would have to be done to a present-day CVN in order to total it?

Dunno. The USS Enterprise has suffered some pretty serious damage in the past...

[Mayabird]

The overpopulation was brought up after New Caprica. That's why they started putting all those civilians on Galactica when they hadn't before - there wasn't room to put them anywhere else. Baltar and his cult of nubile young women all live in some corner of the old girl, if you hadn't noticed. Some of the ships looked like they'd been taken apart for housing on New Caprica and a lot of stuff was left behind, probably including some of those ships, which could explain some of the discrepancy.

New mindscrew.

Galactica is the leader that will not leave to see them complete their voyage.

Think about it no one person or group of people is as crucial to the fleet and their survival as the Galactica herself.

I think it's unlikely, but I do admit the idea has some appeal to it.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

I think at this point she's like some of those WW2-vintage British armoured deck carriers which had been permanently bent and distorted by the massive number of bomb strikes to their armoured decks (and kamikazes) that they'd taken, but that the Brits just kept on in service anyway because they couldn't afford new carriers. The hull is probably literally bent out of shape, the frames twisted like on the British I-type carriers, and she's still just running as best she can.

[Bilbo]

The overpopulation was brought up after New Caprica. That's why they started putting all those civilians on Galactica when they hadn't before - there wasn't room to put them anywhere else. Baltar and his cult of nubile young women all live in some corner of the old girl, if you hadn't noticed. Some of the ships looked like they'd been taken apart for housing on New Caprica and a lot of stuff was left behind, probably including some of those ships, which could explain some of the discrepancy.

New mindscrew.

Galactica is the leader that will not leave to see them complete their voyage.

Think about it no one person or group of people is as crucial to the fleet and their survival as the Galactica herself.

I think it's unlikely, but I do admit the idea has some appeal to it.

Think of it this way. Watching the show is there a single character whose death would upset you as much as watching the Galactica explode?