nBSG ep 4.14 - "Blood on the Scales" talkback (SPOILERS)

[Bilbo]

The overpopulation was brought up after New Caprica. That's why they started putting all those civilians on Galactica when they hadn't before - there wasn't room to put them anywhere else. Baltar and his cult of nubile young women all live in some corner of the old girl, if you hadn't noticed. Some of the ships looked like they'd been taken apart for housing on New Caprica and a lot of stuff was left behind, probably including some of those ships, which could explain some of the discrepancy.

New mindscrew.

Galactica is the leader that will not leave to see them complete their voyage.

Think about it no one person or group of people is as crucial to the fleet and their survival as the Galactica herself.

I think it's unlikely, but I do admit the idea has some appeal to it.

Think of it this way. Watching the show is there a single character whose death would upset you as much as watching the Galactica explode?

[xerex]

reading some other boards, apparantly the new Six is definately not head six - her name is Lida.

[Lonestar]

reading some other boards, apparantly the new Six is definately not head six - her name is Lida.

Gee, you think? What on earth made you think she was Head Six?

[Mayabird]

New mindscrew.

Galactica is the leader that will not leave to see them complete their voyage.

Think about it no one person or group of people is as crucial to the fleet and their survival as the Galactica herself.

I think it's unlikely, but I do admit the idea has some appeal to it.

Think of it this way. Watching the show is there a single character whose death would upset you as much as watching the Galactica explode?

Exactly why I said "the idea has some appeal to it" but still think it is unlikely that it'll be the case in the end.


Anyway, I wonder if Galactica had been massively overbuilt for the Cylon War because they were having to use throwback technology instead of more modern stuff. Might be the only reason why she's still able to chug along.

[General Zod]

Anyway, I wonder if Galactica had been massively overbuilt for the Cylon War because they were having to use throwback technology instead of more modern stuff. Might be the only reason why she's still able to chug along.

What do you mean by overbuilt? As far as not using modern stuff, Adama was rather steadfast against upgrading the Galactica to any newer technology that would give the cylons an edge in terms of being able to hack into its systems.

[Mayabird]

I meant that they put in way more capacity than needed or necessary because they were having to use older technology that they couldn't build as quickly since they'd lost that base as stuff got modernized. It'd be hard to get replacements for your old electronics so put in a lot of fall-back systems and so on. Put in a lot of armor and structural supports and make it a flying brick.

Now when I think about it, it sounds pretty stupid and I think I should go to bed now.

[FSTargetDrone]

Solid stuff, these episodes since the break. Some of them, the tension is so thick I almost cannot stand it.

I've really enjoyed Richard Hatch's portrayal of Zarek. And it's a fitting end for the character.

Since Adama let that one rebellious Marine run off without any on-the-spot-retribution, I don't expect to see any executions of various other rebels, at least not those who didn't actually kill anyone. Adama could have shot him down where he stood, but he let him go, despite the danger that the Marine could inform his fellow rebels where Adama was last seen.

I would have liked to have seen just a bit of interaction between Adama and Gaeta at the end. Something like, "What were you thinking? What did you hope to accomplish? Did you really think this was going to work?" Gaeta served under Adama for years and it had to have been a especially devastating personal betrayal as far as Adama was concerned. They argued and discussed Gaeta's motives somewhat before and during the "trial" but it would have nice for a final word. Or, I wonder what it may have been like to have rather than a firing squad of generic Marines, Adama instead having the condemned Gaeta and Zarek placed in a airlock and before personally venting them, giving Gaeta a hard, last look, "This is what it has come to, what you have forced me to do."

[General Zod]

Solid stuff, these episodes since the break. Some of them, the tension is so thick I almost cannot stand it.

I've really enjoyed Richard Hatch's portrayal of Zarek. And it's a fitting end for the character.

Since Adama let that one rebellious Marine run off without any on-the-spot-retribution, I don't expect to see any executions of various other rebels, at least not those who didn't actually kill anyone. Adama could have shot him down where he stood, but he let him go, despite the danger that the Marine could inform his fellow rebels where Adama was last seen.

I would have liked to have seen just a bit of interaction between Adama and Gaeta at the end. Something like, "What were you thinking? What did you hope to accomplish? Did you really think this was going to work?" Gaeta served under Adama for years and it had to have been a especially devastating personal betrayal as far as Adama was concerned. They argued and discussed Gaeta's motives somewhat before and during the "trial" but it would have nice for a final word. Or, I wonder what it may have been like to have rather than a firing squad of generic Marines, Adama instead having the condemned Gaeta and Zarek placed in a airlock and before personally venting them, giving Gaeta a hard, last look, "This is what it has come to, what you have forced me to do."

I'm not so sure, both of those come off as something rather petty for Adama to do, and just don't seem to really jive with his personality that well. I don't think Gaeta would have really been inclined to answer him anyway, so this was really the best way to end it imo.

[tim31]

I meant that they put in way more capacity than needed or necessary because they were having to use older technology that they couldn't build as quickly since they'd lost that base as stuff got modernized. It'd be hard to get replacements for your old electronics so put in a lot of fall-back systems and so on. Put in a lot of armor and structural supports and make it a flying brick.

Now when I think about it, it sounds pretty stupid and I think I should go to bed now.

No, I buy that. It took a nuke in the miniseries.

Then again, Pegasus took a few nukes and was able to get outta dodge after Garner managed to 'reroute emergency power'.

[His Divine Shadow]

There is a line somewhere about "10 out of 35" ships siding with Roslin. I thought the fleet had more like 65 ships.

Shit really? I thought they had 200 ships when they started

[His Divine Shadow]

I laughed at Galactica having even smaller, more cramped Jefferies Tubes than Star Trek does.

I thought they where ventilation ducts?

[tim31]

They were, but Moore et al. can't have been unaware of the similarity.

[Uraniun235]

I laughed at Galactica having even smaller, more cramped Jefferies Tubes than Star Trek does.

I thought they where ventilation ducts?

Ventilation ducts with pipes running through them? What if one of those pipes was broken somehow and they needed to service it? It'd be a right bitch to get in and work on them.

[Old Plympto]

There is a line somewhere about "10 out of 35" ships siding with Roslin. I thought the fleet had more like 65 ships.

Shit really? I thought they had 200 ships when they started

I believe the 200 (220, to be precise, initially) number is from the original series.

According to the BSG wiki, Dee's ship count in "33" is 63 ships, including the Olympic Carrier at the time and excluding the Galactica.

[Lonestar]

Then again, Pegasus took a few nukes and was able to get outta dodge after Garner managed to 'reroute emergency power'.

You laugh, but there are indeed USN Damage Control procedures for rerouting power to and from different load centers.

[FSTargetDrone]

I'm not so sure, both of those come off as something rather petty for Adama to do, and just don't seem to really jive with his personality that well. I don't think Gaeta would have really been inclined to answer him anyway, so this was really the best way to end it imo.

You may be right. However, I think it's notable that Gaeta phoned in from command ordering the firing squad to perforate Adama, when Adama was right there looking at him when the situation ultimately reversed itself. Gaeta may have had the excuse that he was busy running the coup and all, but Adama at least was right there for the punishment. I felt like Gaeta was hiding and didn't want to see the punishment he had no qualms about authorizing. I don't think he necessarily lost his nerve for the coup as such, but he evidently didn't have the stomach to see his then-former commander put to death.

[Ford Prefect]

Think of it this way. Watching the show is there a single character whose death would upset you as much as watching the Galactica explode?

Plenty. Adama, Tigh, Helo, Athena, Apollo, Tyrol, even Baltar and Roslin. At the end of the day, the Galactica is just a ship. It's a good ship, but it's still only a spacecraft. It is vital to the fleet, but look at how terrible things were without Adama on the deck. No one is actually more vital than the Galactica's crew, given that without them, the ship itself is just a ten million ton paper weight.

[tim31]

Then again, Pegasus took a few nukes and was able to get outta dodge after Garner managed to 'reroute emergency power'.

You laugh, but there are indeed USN Damage Control procedures for rerouting power to and from different load centers.

Oh, I don't doubt it; you're hardly just going to flounder there while the brits send torpedo bombers after you. It's just hard for me to get over the usual sci-fi cliches.

[FSTargetDrone]

With respect to the Galatica's mounting wear and tear, I'd like to see a series of images showing the ship at the time of the miniseries to whatever point the ship or the series comes to an end, whichever comes first. I bet the differences would be quite telling.

[Stark]

Don't forget to include the shot from Exodus of the intact main battery being under a orange 'fire' decal.

[RedImperator]

With respect to the Galatica's mounting wear and tear, I'd like to see a series of images showing the ship at the time of the miniseries to whatever point the ship or the series comes to an end, whichever comes first. I bet the differences would be quite telling.

Not quite the same thing, but there are a few good shots of her in miniseries form in the opening credits. It's striking just how badly damaged she is.

[charlemagne]

Ventilation ducts with pipes running through them? What if one of those pipes was broken somehow and they needed to service it? It'd be a right bitch to get in and work on them.

I'm under the impression that there's hatches in those ducts every couple of meters, at least Tyrol seemed to always go by some exit. Well, Tyrol in there was just a good old cliche, gotta have a guy in the vents or whatever during a crisis like this

I thought it was a great episode, good pacing and very suspensefull. Adama's march at the end, with his "army" slowly building up in size as people joined him from corridors left and right was great.

[Traveller]

Not exactly difficult to mess up a formula epsiode like up. For how predictable the outcome was, it was technically well done. The unfortunate thing about this whole clumsy mess is how everyone always waits till *after* the shit has hit the fan to re-discover all there backbone. Roslin for example, is a clever politican, is certainly capable of inspireing leadership, nor is she a stupid person, but, like everyone else in the BSG gong-show, always waits till things have almost come apart before showing some leadership. Might make for some moments of good drama, but that doesnt necesarily mean its good writing.

On the plus side, For the Nuke-the-cyclons-till they glow crowd, the cyclons were un-usually restrained in there response\ attitude while all this unfolded. Besides wanting to run away, a prefectly understandable response, there reactions will give NO ammuntion to the kill-all-cyclons faction. Wheither that means anything in the coming episodes is yet to be seen. I did however like that even the cyclons i think felt compelled to obey Roslin when she was doing her Screw you Zarek speech, but she managed to win them over even after they had voted to bravely run away, that was well done . Whats more even that missle hit to the baseship did not trigger them to respond with force in any way.

For Romo, I guess the Pen really is mightier than the sword.

As for Adama winning the day, that is hardly a settled matter either. Under normal cicumstances, a mutiny like this, you could spend most of a season unravelling the consequences, they dont have that much time. Not every victory is a win and though Adama has his ship back, for how much longer? His talk with the Ltn., (I interpet) the matter isnt really settled. He says' "Ive always respected you but I cant take orders from someone what wont fight the cylons" *. If thats the case what would a real commanders options be. Execute others guily of murder as well?, might be a wise idea. Pardon those guily of just being stupid.? Sounds nice and liberal, but allowing large numbers of former mutineers to carry on like normal, if they didnt kill other crew-mates, a lot of them stood by and cheer-leadered while it happened. People dont get over things like that, even when ordered too. Keep most of the mutineers on, but they are only allowed to preform there duties, no weapons of any kind, and are more or less confined to quarters when off duty? Again, might work, if they had a surplus of 'loyal' people to watch over the ones they dont really trust anymore. So thats not really on either. Best option, toss the lot of them on the prison-barge(or did they lose that ship..hard to tell these days). Stripped of all rank, with the possibibly of future charges blah blah etc, if they ever find another planet that hasnt been plot-nuked serveral times over. Or if you really wanted to be mean, ship the most re-calcitrent of the former renegades over to the baseship and have the centurions use them for target practice(have the clankers use there ~ of paintguns or whatever something that just stings really bad). In any event, had this been a 'real' mutiny, Adamas short-term victory could end up being a longer-term defeat for all them(with Gaeta to blame of course), depending on how things play out. A realistic evaluation of the situation would say, "Were Probably Screwed", however, star-trek writers love there Ass-pulls so the entire episode could end up more or less swept under the rug.

Besides the short and longer term issues this whole epsisode raised, It was a actually one of the better ones as far a paceing, action, acting all that. Just be nice if one of these episodes had to them able to deal with a problem before it turns into a shit sandwich.

* Of course the problem with his reasoning here should be imediate to anyone with an IQ over 50. The rebel cyclons, are hardly the RTF's main threat. The rebel ship is one badly messed up baseship with no raiders, a reduced crew and, like the RTF, they dont have any place to go either. Cavil has ...??? large numbers of fully supplied, fully intact Baseships and continue to be highly motivated to kill all humans and rebel cylons they can find. If Narcho and others like him are un-aware of the strategic situation, then Adama really has his head up his ass. If he is aware of it, and knows everything we and Adama knows(more or less), then Narcho should be smart enough to realize wipeing out the rebel cyclons wouldnt change the big picture in the slightest. He simply wants to kill cylons, any cylons. And of course that cuts to the heart of matter, leaders exist to well..lead, and have to consider the larger issues at stake. Narchos job is to follow orders, not set policy. He tried that, and it didnt work for him, now he pays for that. He gets tied up..tied up real good.

[charlemagne]

Ghetto edit/P.S.: Baltar has come a long way. He was awesome with his "frak me, I ran again, I hate those people on Galactica but they're my responsibility", and of course the pre-execution-talk with Gaeta.

[Admiral Valdemar]

Ghetto edit/P.S.: Baltar has come a long way. He was awesome with his "frak me, I ran again, I hate those people on Galactica but they're my responsibility", and of course the pre-execution-talk with Gaeta.

I agree. And how the hell does he always manage to get in bed with hot girls? *Sigh*

I can't fault this episode. Apollo channelling his Ultimate Force days, Starbuck being competent and compassionate, Lampkin being badass along with Adama, Tigh, Roslin and a whole host of others. I didn't expect it all to be tied up in this episode, but dammit, did they do it well. Zarek and Gaeta are firmly out of the picture. The foreboding with the FTL drive area's gashes is not good. Not good at all.

If Cavil shows up now...