SD.Net World Redux Comment Thread V

[PeZook]

Hmm..Siege, if the Orzel was aware of that cascadian CVBG, then they'd be monitoring its movements and be unlikely to be caught by surprise like that. The battlegroup is important enough to warrant constant TMA analysis, so that the captain can plan the sub's movements properly.

[RogueIce]

Siege, I'm loving the story. Keep up the good work.

P.S. For those interested I'm reorganizing my OOB, the Army and Air Force are done(not completely, but almost there) and I'll soon do my navy as well. If anybody wants to check it out and point out any mistakes, feel free to do so.

USSR Army OOB
USSR Air Force OOB

Your Army aviation sucks. And so does your Airborne division. Don't know if this is only because your OOBs are only "almost" done, but for the sake of information, you're missing gaps. Essentially, your Airborne divisions have no ground equipment, and your Army aviation is entirely limited to your airborne units, with none for the rest.

Stas lists 2 VDV divisions alongside his reserve stuff and thus they gain equipment. He also lists 20 "Various Regiments" for his Frontal Aviation which I would assume means they get distributed amongst his other forces, at least they're they and can be, as I don't know how he set it up, nor do I really know enough about Soviet/Russian organization to know if that's how it should be or not.

If you take the time it'd probably be better for you to make them a bit more distinct, at least somewhere on your hard drive. My OOB for the Army doesn't go into a whole lot of detail, I'll admit, but all of it is on my hard drive and I could post it up if need be. Plus I mostly used Beo's OOB examples (and noted as much) so you can just look in the OP of the reference thread.

Not sure how you're determining numbers, though it saddens me to learn that you have over half the numbers of MBTs as I do [2400 vs 1400 FYI] (which doesn't include my NG [another 1800], but those were at 'half price' for being reserve units anyway; if I did you'd have a third my MBTs) but I don't know if that makes you overequipped or me underequipped.

Then again maybe you're going with a wee little Navy, and/or you are the CSR's bitch puppet close ally ( ) so that could help you I suppose.

[Coyote]

Sale of older Air Craft

The Shadow Air Force has announced that after it receives it's new aircraft, it will be selling some of it's outdated equipment- such as the MiG-21 fighter.

Canissia will contact you about arrange for some MiG-21s to go to Katangwaland. I'll put something in-game in a little bit; right now I'm pressed for time.

[Ryan Thunder]

Isn't it bad form to control another player's assets in an RPG?

[Siege]

Hmm..Siege, if the Orzel was aware of that cascadian CVBG, then they'd be monitoring its movements and be unlikely to be caught by surprise like that. The battlegroup is important enough to warrant constant TMA analysis, so that the captain can plan the sub's movements properly.

Of course. It's all really rather silly, but like I said when I posted the first chapter, any pretense of realism is just a pretense. In reality this particular storyline is driven entirely by the infamous 'rule of cool'. After all, it's about a mujahedeen U-Boat. The very concept of the story itself is rather implausible indeed...

Isn't it bad form to control another player's assets in an RPG?

It's not when all those involved have an understanding of what goes and what doesn't. I explicitly asked both Zor and Steve if I could use their assets in the continuing adventures of the Fist of Allah, and PeZook basically threw me his submarine so I ran with it. It would be bad form (not to mention really poor storytelling) if I sunk everything in sight-- which is why you won't see the Fist of Allah doing that. In fact, every time they encounter a halfway competent enemy - be it a Zorian destroyer or a PeZookian submarine - they run for the hills...

[Ryan Thunder]

Isn't it bad form to control another player's assets in an RPG?

It's not when all those involved have an understanding of what goes and what doesn't.

Ah, okay. I'd just seen Shroom do it twice, first with Coiler's sub ("woo! we crashed into a reef so you can capture us!") and then with PeZook's ("oh, shit we ran into a battlegroup so you can run away!").

[Siege]

It was Coiler who stated that his submarine had crashed into a Shroomanian boat, something which Shroom then ran with and coined as 'we captured your SSGN'. That's not quite the same thing.

[Ryan Thunder]

It was Coiler who stated that his submarine had crashed into a Shroomanian boat, something which Shroom then ran with and coined as 'we captured your SSGN'. That's not quite the same thing.

Yeah, it just seemed like a stretch. Going from "We crashed into your ultra-stealthy sub" to "we crashed into a fucking mountain and suffered only enough damage to get ourselves completely stuck so you could drag us back to harbour and tear us apart." seemed like a bit much.

But if that's okay, I'm okay with that, even if I dislike the idea that an FTO SSGN is presently being dissected by the Shroomanian military because of a cock-up so bad it smacks of treason.

[CmdrWilkens]

Going back to the first point for any STGOD you will have to RP your opponent at least a little bit (especially if you are actually fighting it out). The critical thing to do is make sure:
a) You fight your opponent realistically
b) You leave an out for your opponent
c) Only go for the total kill when you are certain that the general consensus is your opponent's neck (or assets) were way to damn exposed not to get a complete kill

Its the hardest thing to quantify with a hard and fast rule but the long and short is that you need to be careful to avoid overselling your side at the expense of someone else who may not get a chance to respond for several hours.

[DarthShady]

Your Army aviation sucks. And so does your Airborne division. Don't know if this is only because your OOBs are only "almost" done, but for the sake of information, you're missing gaps. Essentially, your Airborne divisions have no ground equipment, and your Army aviation is entirely limited to your airborne units, with none for the rest.

It's a work in progress, as in not done yet. There is still a lot of holes left to plug.

If you take the time it'd probably be better for you to make them a bit more distinct, at least somewhere on your hard drive. My OOB for the Army doesn't go into a whole lot of detail, I'll admit, but all of it is on my hard drive and I could post it up if need be. Plus I mostly used Beo's OOB examples (and noted as much) so you can just look in the OP of the reference thread.

Dude I have very little knowledge of this stuff personally, so it's a learn as you work sort of thing. But I'll get it fixed.

Not sure how you're determining numbers, though it saddens me to learn that you have over half the numbers of MBTs as I do [2400 vs 1400 FYI] (which doesn't include my NG [another 1800], but those were at 'half price' for being reserve units anyway; if I did you'd have a third my MBTs) but I don't know if that makes you overequipped or me underequipped.

Well, I've been producing tanks for the last 3-4 ingame years. So I would say that you're under equipped.

Then again maybe you're going with a wee little Navy, and/or you are the CSR's bitch puppet close ally ( ) so that could help you I suppose.

Dude I have a Navy, I just don't have it arranged in this format, yet(Look at my old OOB, in the OOB Thread). This is a reorganization, that will take time.

And yeah, It's good to have a powerful master ally.

[Beowulf]

Going back to the first point for any STGOD you will have to RP your opponent at least a little bit (especially if you are actually fighting it out). The critical thing to do is make sure:
a) You fight your opponent realistically
b) You leave an out for your opponent
c) Only go for the total kill when you are certain that the general consensus is your opponent's neck (or assets) were way to damn exposed not to get a complete kill

Its the hardest thing to quantify with a hard and fast rule but the long and short is that you need to be careful to avoid overselling your side at the expense of someone else who may not get a chance to respond for several hours.

One of the best ways to do this is to actually communicate with them about your intentions and cooperatively role play your encounter. Then you can at least have your opponent fight realistically because he is particpating in the action. Of course, this only works if you reasonably believe your opponent to behave. If you believe your opponent will write up a quick fix while discussing with you, it won't work.

[CmdrWilkens]

One of the best ways to do this is to actually communicate with them about your intentions and cooperatively role play your encounter. Then you can at least have your opponent fight realistically because he is particpating in the action. Of course, this only works if you reasonably believe your opponent to behave. If you believe your opponent will write up a quick fix while discussing with you, it won't work.

The corrollary is the other tough thing: OOC information is stuff you most likely shoudl not use for the benefit of you own forces. In other words the comment thread, unless otherwise noted, shoudl be taken as useful information on which to make posts realistic but your in game posts shoudl be based off of how your nation woudl react based on the information they have. Obviously this can be pretty subjective but to take a non-military example with the FASTA/MSA postings. The "in world" folks running the programs will not have access to the long range plans of each side of the space race equation and thus should only shift their priorities when in-game posts (or sufficient time) would allow for such a shift to be realistic.

Lets say that I post up my entire file with the Delta II > Delta IV > Jupiter > Ares program milestones today. I trust that PeZook isn't going to turn around and shift hsi own program suddenly to counter this, oh sure in another "year" or so his engineers may be able to notice something going on with the MSA which would alter their mission priorities. The same is true in reverse, if he told me right now that his plans have FASTA on the moon by early 2020 and I know mine don't have the MSA landing until 2022 (theoretical dates as I don't know his schedule and 2022 is past my current landing date but I don't have the file handy right now) the in game postings about MSA activites aren't going to show a sudden leap forward to try and catch up. A "year" or so down the road you might hear about more money thrown at programs but only so much catching up and probably still winding up behind because that kind of a gap is too much for a realistic makeup.

[PeZook]

So, you people apparently like the murderous bitch Ana.

Did you know she had a sister?

[Siege]

... don't tell me those slave-trading bastards are going to kidnap the sister of the single most murderous woman on the entire planet . God that would be such an awful mistake to make...

[Shroom Man 777]

I don't know who you are. I don't know what you want. If you are looking for ransom, I can tell you I don't have money. But what I do have are a very particular set of skills; skills I have acquired over a very long career. Skills that make me a nightmare for people like you. If you let my sister go now, that'll be the end of it. I will not look for you, I will not pursue you. But if you don't, I will look for you, I will find you, and I will kill you.

Good luck.

A friend gave this to me. Its Vulpesian. You mind translating it?

"Good luck".

You don't remember me? We spoke on the phone two days ago. I told you I would find you.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

Shroom, I hope that you read about the discussion some time back about the inability to accurately target things from space. The SNC is doing its' own kind of testing, but it's mostly secret. I will announce in due time when we make a significant success.

[Shroom Man 777]

It'll be just about as accurate as an ICBM's MIRVs anyway. Hell, I used pictures from a Minuteman (or was that a Peacekeeper) test on some Pacific hole. It's not a missile, anyway, it's a kinetic rod dropped from space. Targetted by satellites, stratellites, and the Silver Shroom's own sensors.

Space Command could've even placed a target designator right on the target.

I also mentioned the shockwaves were the ones that did Bleak Castle in. Bleak Castle's probably a shitty building, so even near-misses will probably be enough to ruin its shit.

[Siege]

If the KKV is big enough (and a Silver Streak could carry a pretty big one) you really only need to get close to wipe out a soft target. No need for direct hit accuracy when you're dropping fin-stabilized tungsten rods from frickin' orbit.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

If the KKV is big enough (and a Silver Streak could carry a pretty big one) you really only need to get close to wipe out a soft target. No need for direct hit accuracy when you're dropping fin-stabilized tungsten rods from frickin' orbit.

All that is fine, but Shroom is suggesting that he could actually guide them and that contradicts what you just said. The most you could really do is fit some ... targeting system on the Dynasoar and configure it to calculate where it will hit. I don't have to add that such calculations require computers that might require a bit of space.

[Shroom Man 777]

I'm suggesting that the Dyna-Shroom can aim its KKV very reliably with the help of satellites and stratellites, good mapping data, and all sorts of stuff giving the spaceship reliable data before it drops the hammer and blows up some Astarian zombies.

And this is a test. There'll be all sorts of factors to ensure that it goes smoothly. In the ABM thread over at N&P, Shep (I think) explained that "staged" tests are still very important since even though the variables are controlled, you still do them to work out the preliminary bugs in the system. Testing's a rigorous process and all that jazz.

[Siege]

All that is fine, but Shroom is suggesting that he could actually guide them and that contradicts what you just said.

Oh? And where'd he do that? I don't see it anywhere in his game-post.

It's silly to try and guide a KKV anyway. It's not a missile. It's a rod entering the atmosphere at hypersonic velocity, sheated in plasma. It doesn't even have engines. How'd you guide something like that?

The most you could really do is fit some ... targeting system on the Dynasoar and configure it to calculate where it will hit. I don't have to add that such calculations require computers that might require a bit of space.

Of course if we had to calculate a firing solution we could just do so on the ground and relay the data to the orbiter loitering above the target before opening fire. If only we were in possession of one of the world's premier satellite networks... Oh wait.

EDIT: PS: It's not a Dyna-Soar. Dyna-Soar can't carry weapons insofar as I know. S-1 Silver Streak is designed to carry 3,600kg of ordinance-- either in satellites, astronauts, or missiles.

[Shroom Man 777]

Hooray for FASTA!


Hey, I just remembered Stas and I were having AWESOME Mad Science experiments on brain-interfaces for computers. Siege and Fingolfin, do you want horrific experiments with cyborg gorilla brains Y/N?

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

I'm suggesting that the Dyna-Shroom can aim its KKV very reliably with the help of satellites and stratellites, good mapping data, and all sorts of stuff giving the spaceship reliable data before it drops the hammer and blows up some Astarian zombies.

Well, it's still going to be a complicated issue, because there's wind and what not. For one thing, I have no idea whether it is even possible to launch those tungsten fit stabilized shots with enough velocity on an aircraft like that. If they don't have enough velocity, the drift can be of the order of several kilometers to tens of it. Meaning they could even miss the target altogether. A weapon with CEP of like 50-100 km is not very useful.

And this is a test. There'll be all sorts of factors to ensure that it goes smoothly. In the ABM thread over at N&P, Shep (I think) explained that "staged" tests are still very important since even though the variables are controlled, you still do them to work out the preliminary bugs in the system. Testing's a rigorous process and all that jazz.

Well sure.....

[Shroom Man 777]

Well, it's still going to be a complicated issue, because there's wind and what not. For one thing, I have no idea whether it is even possible to launch those tungsten fit stabilized shots with enough velocity on an aircraft like that. If they don't have enough velocity, the drift can be of the order of several kilometers to tens of it. Meaning they could even miss the target altogether. A weapon with CEP of like 50-100 km is not very useful.

Fuck the wind, man. It's coming from SPACE! They'll have more than enough velocity. They'll have SUPER velocity! Besides, I don't think MIRVs are that inaccurate. They are also fast.

Wind can be measures by having satellites look at clouds and stuff. Weather satellites!

Well sure.....

I say we should use our brain-machine experiments to create a race of cyborg dolphins to enhance our submarine detection grid.

They shall plant Davy Crocketts on enemy submarines and nuke them to hell. Or just sea mines. Like that one from Hot Fuzz.

[PeZook]

You could accomplish guidance by shaping the rod in a way that gives parts of it some lift, and then fitting it with maneuvering engines: that's exactly how space capsules work on descent.