Autism & Vaccines - Comments & Emails

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Boyish-Tigerlilly
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Re: Autism & Vaccines - Comments & Emails

Post by Boyish-Tigerlilly »

I have to say that it is pretty tough trying to teach children with low functioning autism. Quite a challenge. I just want to help, but it's so hard. I don't think I am getting anywhere some days. One child I can get to respond in the form of taking items from me or giving them back. Sometimes, he will give me a high-five when prompted, but most of the time, he sits alone and stims in the corner. I try to comfort him when he does it or replace the objects, but he generally looks bored and gives blank stares. :(

I haven't tried discrete trial training yet, and I am not ABA certified, so I can't really use it. Maybe with my Masters, I will try to get PECS/ABA cert. See if that helps. I don't see a lot of progress with the other teachers, either. Unfortunately.
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Re: Autism & Vaccines - Comments & Emails

Post by The Duchess of Zeon »

Boyish-Tigerlilly wrote:I have to say that it is pretty tough trying to teach children with low functioning autism. Quite a challenge. I just want to help, but it's so hard. I don't think I am getting anywhere some days. One child I can get to respond in the form of taking items from me or giving them back. Sometimes, he will give me a high-five when prompted, but most of the time, he sits alone and stims in the corner. I try to comfort him when he does it or replace the objects, but he generally looks bored and gives blank stares. :(

I haven't tried discrete trial training yet, and I am not ABA certified, so I can't really use it. Maybe with my Masters, I will try to get PECS/ABA cert. See if that helps. I don't see a lot of progress with the other teachers, either. Unfortunately.

Isn't ABA -- Applied Behaviour Analysis -- the torture method developed by Lovaas to beat the shit out of these poor kids? I mean, I just want to clarify, because I'm pretty sure the Lovaas shit is part of that so-called Analysis, and it's clearly rather horrifying, I hope we can all agree. I'm just hoping I'm wrong and it's just a similar acronym for something completely unrelated, because everything I've seen about Lovaas suggests he was a monster who basically tried to engage in the pavlovian conditioning of children through violent physical assault and psychological torture.
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Re: Autism & Vaccines - Comments & Emails

Post by SirNitram »

ABA is just a form of psych conditioning. Rewards/Punishments.

What is called ABA/IBI is what Lovaas pioneered. I'm sure one could salvage something oh, moral, from it, but I'm not betting highly.
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Re: Autism & Vaccines - Comments & Emails

Post by Boyish-Tigerlilly »

ABA is applied behaviour analysis, yes. One form was the Lovaas method. I am not familiar with it specifically, but the application I've come across never involved or required screaming or physical punishments. Doesn't work for everyone either, but it's usually pretty successful at producing functional, happy children.

We set a few goals and sub-objectives, and then reward with praise or some other form of material rewarding selected by the student through approximations to the goal in discrete trials. Over time, we fade prompts/cues and rewards and add new objectives.

It's really only necessary for extreme cases. Higher functioning students do well with more authentic tasks instead of the repetitive trials/rewards.

I don't see how screaming or strapping or hurting would even be professionally allowed ABA practice today, much less ethical.
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Re: Autism & Vaccines - Comments & Emails

Post by The Duchess of Zeon »

It's what Lovaas did in the 60's, and there are a lot of people who still preach his theory.
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Re: Autism & Vaccines - Comments & Emails

Post by Boyish-Tigerlilly »

I see. Well, I was never really introduced to it specifically, so I will need to look it up to see what it is. As for generic ABA, its one of the best researched and most effective best-practice treatments for Autism. It works, so that's what we use. But there's no strapping down or harming or yelling. Things have probably changed since the 60s era of Behaviourism.
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Re: Autism & Vaccines - Comments & Emails

Post by The Big I »

I'm semi-involved in an arguement on another website about vaccination yay or nay. One of the naysayer has c & p from a website click here http://www.whale.to/additions.html anyways as I have no medical training I was wondering if someone with the "know" couls tell me how legitmate this site is (I don't think they are). The article that he/she used was this as I don't know how to respond to it other than point to other research from known peer reviewed sources (which suprisingly they don't accept) so maybe someone else can give me some tips on how to answer it.
Hiding Polio quotes
Diagnosis Polio

[Polio now hides behind these names: Viral or aseptic meningitis, Guillaine Barre Syndrome (GBS), Chinese Paralytic syndrome, CHRONIC FATIGUE SYNDROME, epidemic cholera, cholera morbus, spinal meningitis, spinal apoplexy, inhibitory palsy, intermittent fever, famine fever, worm fever, bilious remittent fever, ergotism, ME, post-polio syndrome, acute flaccid paralysis Synonyms for GBS]

See: flaccid paralysis Chinese Paralytic syndrome

"Polio has not been eradicated by vaccination, it is lurking behind a redefinition and new diagnostic names like viral or aseptic meningitis.......According to one of the 1997 issues of the MMWR, there are some 30,000 to 50,000 cases of viral meningitis per year in the United States alone. That's where all those 30,000 - 50,000 cases of polio disappeared after the introduction of mass vaccination"---Viera Scheibner

"Today, various other forms of the the word "polio" are still used to describe the effects of poisoning, though usually with regard to paralysis in animals. A search of Medline ("polio" and "poison") finds about 45 contemporary articles where poisoning causality is attributed to polio. The terminology found was: "polioencephalomalacia", "poliomyelomalacia", "polyradiculoneuritis", "neurological picture similar to that of poliomyelitis", "polioencephalomyelomalacia", "lumbal poliomyelomalacia", "cerebrocortical necrosis (polioencephalomalacia)", "Lead poisoning in grey-headed fruit bats (Pteropus poliocephalus)", "multifocal-poliomyelomalacia", "spinal poliomalacia", "Polio and high-sulfate diets", "Atypical porcine enterovirus encephalomyelitis: possible interraction between enteroviruses and arsenicals", "Polioencephalomalacia and photosensitization associated with Kochia scoparia consumption in range cattle", "bovine polioencephalomalacia". ---Jim West, Health and Research Publications, http://www.geocities.com/harpub/

"The United States Public Health Bureau is extremely reticent about reporting diseases caused by vaccination but the report from 1922 to 1931 admitted that there had been 85 cases of post-vaccinal encephalitis, which DeKruif states "is the twin of infantile paralysis.""--Eleanor McBean

"Paralytic cases were not distinguished from non-paralytic cases until a recommendation was made by the Dominion Council of Health in 1949- The LCDC figures provided from 1952 and onward represent this administrative change: recording only those cases adhering to the requirements for a diagnosis of paralytic poliomyelitis. In a report released in June of 1959, another adminis­trative change was recommended by the Dominion Council of Health, further altering the way in which apparent cases of poliomyelitis would be reported. All non-paralytic cases of poliomyelitis were to be henceforth recorded as "meningitis, viral or aseptic," a disease which itself only became reportable in 1952." These two administrative changes effectively reduced the apparent incidence of poliomyelitis. In particular, since the latter change is temporally correlative to the introduction of the polio vaccines, the vaccines appear to have been responsible for a reduction in poliomyelitis cases when it is entirely possible that the administrative changes are primarily responsible."--Catherine Diodati MA (Immunization History, Ethics, Law and Health p116)

The rest of the article is found here http://www.whale.to/vaccine/polio1.html
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Re: Autism & Vaccines - Comments & Emails

Post by Kanastrous »

I've heard my mother (a pathologist) describe Guillaine Barre Syndrome as possibly being 'the other side of the coin' in relation to poliomyelitis. I could ask her to elaborate, but if I understand her properly, she finds reason to suspect that the same virus may be implicated in both. Although she has never suggested that there is anything sneaky going on, by defining the quite-different illnesses using different terms.
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Re: Autism & Vaccines - Comments & Emails

Post by PainRack »

The Big I wrote:I
[Polio now hides behind these names: Viral or aseptic meningitis,
Proof that Polio is causing meningitis? A simple CSF sample would prove the veracity of this.
Its not as if we don't already know that Herpes is a source for viral meningitis.
Guillaine Barre Syndrome (GBS),
Proof that a neurological condition is caused by polio? Say a culture sample?

"Polio has not been eradicated by vaccination, it is lurking behind a redefinition and new diagnostic names like viral or aseptic meningitis.......According to one of the 1997 issues of the MMWR, there are some 30,000 to 50,000 cases of viral meningitis per year in the United States alone. That's where all those 30,000 - 50,000 cases of polio disappeared after the introduction of mass vaccination"---Viera Scheibner
Although I'm not a qualified doctor, I do know there's is a differential pose for people suffering from meningitis ........ I'm quite sure its not plantar flexion, that would be for stroke............. or.......... errr....... Something about the spine.................

Beside, where's the paralysis?
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Re: Autism & Vaccines - Comments & Emails

Post by Cairber »

Just laugh when you see people link to whale.to....

just laugh and laugh and laugh....
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Re: Autism & Vaccines - Comments & Emails

Post by FOG3 »

ASULaoTzu wrote:This creates a community primed for conspiracy theories, especially when treatments like this are more effective than anything they're being given.
You know what also works well? High fiber diets. The fact that white flour, dyes, and otherwise can be bad mojo is furthermore not intrinsically linked with autism. I own several books indicating there was at least a spurt of people with strong sentiments against the S.A.D. (Standard American Diet) that don't mention word one about autism. I'll leave it at that because I've never gotten access to sources that would allow me to confirm or deny some of the nasty stuff they blame on a S.A.D. style diet.

I'm not going to defend Psychology's competance, but there's bigger things in play with that.
ASULaoTzu wrote:Once again, there probably isn't anything to this theory, but the parents and teachers feel like they're being patronized and ridiculed, so cut them some slack.
Funny thing. We know autistics occured in the past, but the examples I know a generation or so back didn't necessarily have severe issues. There is a lot more in play then I think you even begin to comprehend.

Two major events have happened in the last generation or so. First the "me first, screw you" philosophy arose around the 60s and has largely just continued to develop. Thus discouraging actual bridge building interfaces from being developped. Second being wide spread standardization factors such as television became mainstream and eventually the rise of the internet in the 90s. This further complicating issues as factors that would otherwise encourage bridge building skill development are neutralized.

If you don't think the culmination of these factors in a few generations couldn't easily result in more severe issues spreading across the general populace, I'd say you're overly optimistic. The Boomers have largely been children in adult bodies, and reports have indicated Generation X and their follow up have had severe issues with ability to function in the work environment due to overuse of praise and inadequate use of criticism. The validity of the phrase "children are cruel" begs why the children didn't correct that themselves.

The effectiveness of a treatment for autism that just involves the parent arranging a friend speaks volumes.

The autistic mind is not inferior, Neurotypical. We fundamentally process things different and has different operational characteristics, but are hardly inferior. If the larger factors, such as the little bit I have outlined continue to be ignored it's not going to matter whether they have your minicolumn structure or mine.

People who obsess over heavy metal poisoning issues by doing so fail to comprehend just how big the overall situation is. It's complicated and to some of it there is not a good solution.

Honestly if an adult's screwed up enough to treat their child as a non-person is it not alos possible the child reacted to that? Could you blame them for effectively going turtle to protect mental stability factors?
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