SD.Net World Redux Comment Thread VI

[RogueIce]

Alternatively, you can just, you know, shoot them with guns

But I won't be sure unless I obliterate the five city blocks they're in with cleansing nuclear fire.

Oh shit, is the spirit of General Sheppard channeling through me?

[PeZook]

But I won't be sure unless I obliterate the five city blocks they're in with cleansing nuclear fire.

Oh shit, is the spirit of General Sheppard channeling through me?

Probably. I mean, they're not vampires - dinos can't infect people with bites

Unless Velarian dinos are bullet resistant like Jurrasic Park ones, they shouldn't be a problem

[Beowulf]

If you're just flattening 5 city blocks, you send in a heavy bomber. 84 bombs later, said blocks are gone.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

Alternatively, you can just, you know, shoot them with guns

But I won't be sure unless I obliterate the five city blocks they're in with cleansing nuclear fire.

Oh shit, is the spirit of General Sheppard channeling through me?

Well, Shep did send in an Atomic rocket to do that job the last time round...

[Zor]

As a recap, what nations have nuclear weapons and how many (Rounded off numbers would be fine)?

Zor

[Lonestar]

The Old Dominion has 6,000 warheads starting at 100kt and ending at 100mt.

Actually I would have to discuss this with the fellow Messholes so we can get some more legitimate numbers.

[CmdrWilkens]

Speaking some degree of seriousness to Lonestar's post the entire MESS is nuke armed but numbers are obviously highly classified since the world hasn't started the push for anything resembling START.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

The same would apply to CATO. We have been producing high yield weapons for some time now, mounted on cruise missiles, and other delivery systems.

[Coyote]

Canissia will only confirm the existence of Tactical level nukes, the biggest being TLAM size warheads, and won't get into numbers but assure that all branches of the armed forces are sufficiently equipped.

[RogueIce]

The Shinra Republic will only make the following statement:

Our number, yield, and deployment dispersion of nuclear weapons is more than sufficient to make it a really bad day for any nation or group of nations we might have cause to launch against, or any nation or group of nations who should launch against us.

[phongn]

A selection of quotes from various Tonkin statesmen.

" ... the Incorporated Republic cannot afford to preclude itself from using nuclear weapons even in a local situation, if such use ... will best advance IRT security interests. "

" ... local defense must be reinforced by the further deterrent of massive retaliatory power. "

" ... at places and with means of our own choosing. "

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

It's likely that Japanistan has nuclear weapons, though never publicised since Skimmer left before he wrote anything on it.

[CmdrWilkens]

As a recap, what nations have nuclear weapons and how many (Rounded off numbers would be fine)?

Zor

Every major power block has Nukes to greater and lesser degrees. The number, type, delivery system, etc are all highly classified but one thing can be certain nobody yet has MIRVs because somebody would have seen those tests. Simple re-entry tests could have been built into regular rocket testing but even that woudl be somewhat tough to do undercover so ICBMs are almost certainly not yet in the arsenal.

[phongn]

Every major power block has Nukes to greater and lesser degrees. The number, type, delivery system, etc are all highly classified but one thing can be certain nobody yet has MIRVs because somebody would have seen those tests. Simple re-entry tests could have been built into regular rocket testing but even that woudl be somewhat tough to do undercover so ICBMs are almost certainly not yet in the arsenal.

Actually, Tonkin has been observed to conduct regular re-entry testing towards her Pacific test ranges. However, Tonkin has no operation ICBMs at this time (that is not OOC), nor are planning any (and that last bit is OOC). Tonkin my have conducted MRV, MIRV and/or MARV tests, all observable.

[K. A. Pital]

What's up with the IRT militarizing?

[CmdrWilkens]

What's up with the IRT militarizing?

Being fair since he and I are in a sort of death stare with each otehr they aren't really militarizing so much as massively shifting their force structure. I think somebody over at their HQ finally realized that while they could go toe to toe with Wilkonia (which based on past history tops the list of scenarios I am sure) if we called in the rest of the MESS they lack the resources to hold off against that. At the same timeappealing to one of the other pwoer blocs woul diminish their ability to operate independently so thus we enter nuclear brinksmanship: reduce conventional forces to the point of being able to intervene in low-intensity conflicts (a la Valeria/ The Caymans) while spending everythign else on IADS and nukes. If somebody comes knocking the first response is a nuke so it would deter even vastly superior conventional forces unless their political leaders are willign to risk massive civilian losses from a nuclear exchange.

So truthfully it makes sense, he will probably spend about as much money while drastically lowering his manpower requirements AND increasing his defensive posture in terms of presenting a threat to any and all pwoer blocs into which he might come into conflict. I don't see that as militarization so much as a shift in military priorities.

[phongn]

So truthfully it makes sense, he will probably spend about as much money while drastically lowering his manpower requirements AND increasing his defensive posture in terms of presenting a threat to any and all power blocs into which he might come into conflict. I don't see that as militarization so much as a shift in military priorities.

This also means the IRT will be extremely unlikely to start any major conflict: it simply will not have the means to sustain. Rangatara is being built-up as a "regional ally," a favored state of affairs that Svalbardia also holds. Otherwise, the IRT will simply continue its ruthlessly capitalistic ways and sell to anyone and everyone.

[Steve]

Sorry for keeping everyone suspenseful over the shot-down Presidents, but I actually had some work this week and it left me drained and exhausted. Hope to finish things up with Siege over the weekend.

[K. A. Pital]

New Navy/Aviation pixel kits by me. Have many types of ships. Started a NATO chart, but it quickly got out of space. I'll see what I can do here

The Soviet Navy now includes earlier ship types as well as Chinese ships, and some newer designs as well. Never-built Soviet LPD and LPHs also put into the fray, they might be interesting for folks. Ekranoplans also present, and damn I didn't understand they were that huge.

[Ryan Thunder]

New Navy/Aviation pixel kits by me. Have many types of ships. Started a NATO chart, but it quickly got out of space. I'll see what I can do here

The Soviet Navy now includes earlier ship types as well as Chinese ships, and some newer designs as well. Never-built Soviet LPD and LPHs also put into the fray, they might be interesting for folks. Ekranoplans also present, and damn I didn't understand they were that huge.

I love you, sir.

In a totally platonic way, that is.

[CmdrWilkens]

Updated OOB through early Q3 2014 (which stars tomorrow) and included preliminary Coast Guard information. This will get firmed up as I get more into Coast Guard OOB stuff (the critical part is still the fact that they operate a lotta ASW or ASW-capable stuff).

[Beowulf]

Being able to launch a payload straight down from orbit implies being able to completely negate orbital velocity. For a 500 kg payload, that translates into an approximately 6.5 metric ton missile. Adding in the 4km/s that you want to have downward increases the mass requirement to 40 tons. I'm pretty sure a pair of them exceeds the mass to orbit capability of the Zenit, not even counting the mass of the MiG-105.

All this assumes a solid rocket motor with an Isp of ~250 seconds. It also assumes the use of multiple crasher stages to reduce the mass required. Doing without the crasher stage requires far too much mass as to be practical.

If on the other hand, you assumed a more horizontal trajectory for reentry, you could get the required dV for the rocket down to ~70 m/s. That's probably a much more horizontal trajectory than you actually want, but much more horizontal trajectories are much superior for maintenance of energy, which makes the required retro rockets small enough to be reasonable.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

Being able to launch a payload straight down from orbit implies being able to completely negate orbital velocity. For a 500 kg payload, that translates into an approximately 6.5 metric ton missile. Adding in the 4km/s that you want to have downward increases the mass requirement to 40 tons. I'm pretty sure a pair of them exceeds the mass to orbit capability of the Zenit, not even counting the mass of the MiG-105.

Is it that much? Not even the current ramjet missiles are that heavy for that matter, even counting for the doubling to quadrupling of the weight due to the ceramics.

Well, I could cut it down to one a MiG-105. No Problem..

EDIT: I made changes to the post, with regards to trajectory etc. and I added a crasher stage.

[phongn]

Being able to launch a payload straight down from orbit implies being able to completely negate orbital velocity. For a 500 kg payload, that translates into an approximately 6.5 metric ton missile. Adding in the 4km/s that you want to have downward increases the mass requirement to 40 tons. I'm pretty sure a pair of them exceeds the mass to orbit capability of the Zenit, not even counting the mass of the MiG-105.

Is it that much? Not even the current ramjet missiles are that heavy for that matter, even counting for the doubling to quadrupling of the weight due to the ceramics.

Uh, what does a ramjet have to do with reentry from orbital velocity?

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

Uh, what does a ramjet have to do with reentry from orbital velocity?

Erm.. I'm confused here. This basically is a ramjet/rocket cone. The scramjet/ramjet only works when the cone has entered the upper atmosphere, where there's actually an atmosphere to work with?

Ok, in all seriousness, does anyone have the necessary calcs for calculating such projectiles? I have searched high and low and while I have a mechanics book I can reference to, there are tonnes of non-linear effects that I cannot account for in the book, since I was never trained as an engineer.