Gimmick Rap / NerdCore is godawful music and anybody who lik

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Re: Gimmick Rap / NerdCore is godawful music and anybody who lik

Post by TithonusSyndrome »

Rogue 9 wrote:
Havok wrote:
Instant Sunrise wrote:Rogue, I'd like to see you back up that statement "rap isn't music."
He can't.
Actually, I can. It has no melodic line, and is therefore not music. If anything, it's a particularly vulgar form of poetry. It's rhythmic, but so's a car engine; that alone does not make music.
According to Mr. Save-Face-With-Haughty-Ad-Hoc-Retorts, percussion and drumming compositions aren't music.

Where will the next spurious line of reasoning take us? Stay tuned 'til next time!
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Re: Gimmick Rap / NerdCore is godawful music and anybody who lik

Post by Uraniun235 »

isn't that more of a semantics argument?

seems like an argument over the definition of a word to me
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Re: Gimmick Rap / NerdCore is godawful music and anybody who lik

Post by Rye »

Rogue 9 wrote:
Havok wrote:
Instant Sunrise wrote:Rogue, I'd like to see you back up that statement "rap isn't music."
He can't.
Actually, I can. It has no melodic line, and is therefore not music. If anything, it's a particularly vulgar form of poetry. It's rhythmic, but so's a car engine; that alone does not make music.
They usually have some bass and some sort of synth lead too. By any reasonable definition, they contribute a melody. In the unaccompanied stuff, I don't even see why the human voice can't be considered an instrument with pitch/duration variation and rhythm.

Let's examine the consequences of this:

1) Choirs aren't music!
2) Drumming isn't music!
3) Synth plus any of the above isn't music!
4) Tribal music isn't music.
5) Music from "found art", e.g. layering audio samples from engines or other machines as is sometimes done in industrial music is not music.

Way to back up your statement. Also, my how wide your tastes are! Only totally dismissing lots of non-white folk music and praising "high art". Great. Totally unexpected.
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Re: Gimmick Rap / NerdCore is godawful music and anybody who lik

Post by Dooey Jo »

My tastes in music are very wide. In fact, I like all music.


Note: It's not music if it ain't written by Beethoven and has tubas in it.
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Re: Gimmick Rap / NerdCore is godawful music and anybody who lik

Post by TithonusSyndrome »

only this is music
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Re: Gimmick Rap / NerdCore is godawful music and anybody who lik

Post by Havok »

Aww... she is soo sad. :(
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Re: Gimmick Rap / NerdCore is godawful music and anybody who lik

Post by Akumz Razor »

That shit was off the rails!
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Re: Gimmick Rap / NerdCore is godawful music and anybody who lik

Post by RedImperator »

"Is rap music?" I smell a Colosseum topic.
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Re: Gimmick Rap / NerdCore is godawful music and anybody who lik

Post by Havok »

LOL you have no power here anymore! You know you wanted to lock this thread. :D

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Re: Gimmick Rap / NerdCore is godawful music and anybody who lik

Post by RedImperator »

Havok wrote:LOL you have no power here anymore! You know you wanted to lock this thread. :D

"OOOO Page three. LOC- SHIT!"
No way man. You think I'd bail Pink's ass out with a page 3 lock? Shit, if it was up to me, this thread would be on its way to AMP or OT.
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god damn will you look at this shit, achewood ahoy

Post by Uraniun235 »

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Man, Philippe really fucked up this time. Cornelius completely hates rap.


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Re: Gimmick Rap / NerdCore is godawful music and anybody who lik

Post by Havok »

RedImperator wrote:
Havok wrote:LOL you have no power here anymore! You know you wanted to lock this thread. :D

"OOOO Page three. LOC- SHIT!"
No way man. You think I'd bail Pink's ass out with a page 3 lock? Shit, if it was up to me, this thread would be on its way to AMP or OT.
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Re: Gimmick Rap / NerdCore is godawful music and anybody who lik

Post by Surlethe »

RedImperator wrote:Shit, if it was up to me, this thread would be on its way to AMP or OT.
Following the recommendation of a senior moderator emeritus ...
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Re: Gimmick Rap / NerdCore is godawful music and anybody who lik

Post by TithonusSyndrome »

For that matter, why are we bothering to indulge this bullshit assertion that rap lacks melody? I can produce examples demonstrating otherwise all the doo dah motherfuckin' day.

So much for THAT hysterically unfounded assertion.
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Re: Gimmick Rap / NerdCore is godawful music and anybody who lik

Post by DPDarkPrimus »

I think Havok is just angry because of all the shitty rap music on the radio, but I guess Sturgeon's Law doesn't apply to things he doesn't like.
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Re: Gimmick Rap / NerdCore is godawful music and anybody who lik

Post by TithonusSyndrome »

When did Stark ever post in this thread? Or am I missing something?
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Re: Gimmick Rap / NerdCore is godawful music and anybody who lik

Post by Saurencaerthai »

Rogue 9 wrote: Actually, I can. It has no melodic line, and is therefore not music.
You have a very curious, limited, and inadvertently ethnocentric definition of what music is.

Let's examine some music forms:
The Haka of the Maori people of Australia
Bamaya, a piece of the Dagomba people of Ghana
A percussion trio piece by Nebojsa Zivkovic

Strictly speaking, none of these pieces have any melodic line. At their basic form, they are rhythm, and that is the piece that most self-proclaimed arbiters of music tend to overlook. In truth, that is pretty much one of the only universal characteristics of music around the world, aside from the necessity for both sound and silence. One may be able to derive potentially melodic lines from differences in timbre or the fundamental pitch of the instruments, but if one wishes to go that route, we should also apply it to rap. Case in point: Insane in the Membrane by Cypress Hill. Right off the bat, the delivery is clearly not monotonal, and thus, melody could be derived. But even if do wish to go down that slippery slope of of music requiring a melodic line, what disqualifies single pitched note played multiple times in a specific rhythm from being a line? Even at that base level, rap STILL passes the test.

To further argue, we already have a musical practice that allows for the type of delivery near identical to the current rap practice that first appeared in the 19th century, called sprachgesang, or sprachstimme. It is a type of delivery that falls between singing and speaking. It wouldn't surprise me if you haven't listened critically to the delivery of many rappers, but in case you ever do, you would notice that there is a specific conviction and delivery that is not present in their usual speaking voice. It is in essence, a form of song.

Ultimately, if you wish to go down that path of disqualifying rap as music, then you might as well keep on going and disqualify the indigenous musics of many people through out the world as well. Is it valid to say that you don't like rap? Certainly, and that's fine. However, making such a broad, sweeping, and truly arbitrary ruling? Preposterous.
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Re: Gimmick Rap / NerdCore is godawful music and anybody who lik

Post by Gigaliel »

Instant Sunrise wrote:I don't normally listen to rap, since it's all about bitches, ho's and guns, and I can't relate to urban culture, but I liked this pirate rap album.

(not racist)
Saurencaerthai wrote: ...ethnocentric...
I'm not really "getting" this racist implication that's popped a few times. It's not like there is some causal relationship between genetics and what form of music you can perform. Is a person who only listens to classical stuff a racist during the early jazz, only to become merely snobbish when it's become popular among whites?

And the person who said that the inaccurate generalization in Sunrise's post is stupid, but I'm not really seeing the problem with preferring pirate themes over more serious, contemporary ones. I mean sure the music isn't as good, but that implies these people have good taste in other genres.

As an aside
Instant Sunrise wrote:
Rogue 9 wrote:
Instant Sunrise wrote:i like everything but rap and country.
Translation: "I have no taste in music"
Hey, fuck you too, buddy. :P
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Seriously though, it is the whitest sentence in the english language. It instantly gives you away as a milquetoast suburbanite who doesn't listen to anything beyond Top 40.
Aren't white people supposed to like country?
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Re: Gimmick Rap / NerdCore is godawful music and anybody who lik

Post by Instant Sunrise »

Gigaliel wrote:I'm not really "getting" this racist implication that's popped a few times. It's not like there is some causal relationship between genetics and what form of music you can perform. Is a person who only listens to classical stuff a racist during the early jazz, only to become merely snobbish when it's become popular among whites?

And the person who said that the inaccurate generalization in Sunrise's post is stupid, but I'm not really seeing the problem with preferring pirate themes over more serious, contemporary ones. I mean sure the music isn't as good, but that implies these people have good taste in other genres.

As an aside

Aren't white people supposed to like country?
You don't see how a completely inaccurrate and uninformed view of a musical genre that is very much a part of a specific culture, assuming all of it to be that way, and saying that you only like when it is completely removed from that culture, might just be a little bit prejudiced?

I'm not saying that people who don't listen to rap are racist. The point that I am making is, people who say that they only like rap when it is done by white people rapping about things white people like, are being racist, even if they don't realize that what they are saying is racist.

With this kind of gimmicky rap, the punchline of the joke tends to be hip-hop itself. To me, that just seems like it's a modern-day minstrel show.
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Re: Gimmick Rap / NerdCore is godawful music and anybody who lik

Post by Saurencaerthai »

Gigaliel wrote: (not racist)
Saurencaerthai wrote: ...ethnocentric...
I'm not really "getting" this racist implication that's popped a few times. It's not like there is some causal relationship between genetics and what form of music you can perform. Is a person who only listens to classical stuff a racist during the early jazz, only to become merely snobbish when it's become popular among whites?
I never said racist, you twat, I said ethnocentric. Two VERY different animals. Ethnocentrism is characterized by looking at the world primarily through one's own cultural perspective, NOT RACE. Generally speaking, much of the music descending from a Western-European tradition tends to be more melodically rich than rhythmic. That being said, if one grows up primarily around that musical tradition with little exposure to other traditions, it is not surprising that they have trouble conceiving of music being more strongly based in rhythm than in melody. Thus, the inadvertent ethnocentrism.
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Re: Gimmick Rap / NerdCore is godawful music and anybody who lik

Post by Gigaliel »

Instant Sunrise wrote: You don't see how a completely inaccurrate and uninformed view of a musical genre that is very much a part of a specific culture, assuming all of it to be that way, and saying that you only like when it is completely removed from that culture, might just be a little bit prejudiced?
Well the part about sweeping generalizations is, yeah. But I'm not really understanding why wanting your music in a context/culture you understand is a bad thing. If you don't emphasize with what the artists is saying (especially important in rap where the bulk of the song is lyrics), well then you probably won't like it as much as something that does.
I'm not saying that people who don't listen to rap are racist. The point that I am making is, people who say that they only like rap when it is done by white people rapping about things white people like, are being racist, even if they don't realize that what they are saying is racist.
This part is confusing me a bit as you were using the word culture earlier and now you're using racial terms.
With this kind of gimmicky rap, the punchline of the joke tends to be hip-hop itself. To me, that just seems like it's a modern-day minstrel show.
I don't really listen to it that often, but wouldn't it stop being gimmicky after enough people are doing it? At some point it would just become a really bad sub-genre.
Saurencaerthai wrote: I never said racist, you twat, I said ethnocentric. Two VERY different animals. Ethnocentrism is characterized by looking at the world primarily through one's own cultural perspective, NOT RACE. Generally speaking, much of the music descending from a Western-European tradition tends to be more melodically rich than rhythmic. That being said, if one grows up primarily around that musical tradition with little exposure to other traditions, it is not surprising that they have trouble conceiving of music being more strongly based in rhythm than in melody. Thus, the inadvertent ethnocentrism.
What do even think ethnocentric means-
Merriam Webster wrote: Main Entry: eth·no·cen·tric Listen to the pronunciation of ethnocentric
Pronunciation: \ˌeth-nō-ˈsen-trik\
Function: adjective
Date: 1900
: characterized by or based on the attitude that one's own group is superior
I've never seen it presented as that vague before. Apparently I do not know what an ethnicity is! I agree with your post, anyway.
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Post by loomer »

The Maori come from New Zealand, not from Australia. You may have been confused by the other name for New Zealand, Aotearoa.
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Re: Gimmick Rap / NerdCore is godawful music and anybody who lik

Post by Terralthra »

Akumz Razor wrote:Amish Paradise was funny, but it really should have been a one-time-only kind of thing.
You realize that song was on his ninth album, right?
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