France returns to NATO command

[Kane Starkiller]

France ends four-decade Nato rift

French President Nicolas Sarkozy has announced his country is to return to Nato's military command, reversing four decades of self-imposed exile.

Mr Sarkozy confirmed the decision in a speech to defence experts at the Ecole Militaire staff college in Paris.

President Charles de Gaulle pulled France out of Nato's integrated military command in 1966, saying it undermined France's sovereignty.

Critics say France will now be no more than "a clone of Great Britain".

But Mr Sarkozy said there was no sense in France - a founder member of Nato - having no say in the organisation's decisions on military strategy.

"This rapprochement with Nato ensures our national independence," said Mr Sarkozy. "To distance ourselves would limit our independence and our room for manoeuvre."

"We have to be progressive," he said. "A solitary nation is a nation that has no influence whatsoever."

"We need strong diplomacy, a strong defence and a strong Europe."

He said Nato remained a central element of France's security and defence policies, but stressed that he would not give up the country's independent nuclear deterrent.

Mr Sarkozy is expected to formalise the move with a letter to Nato before the alliance celebrates its 60th anniversary next month with a summit in the French city of Strasbourg.

Military action

Nato Secretary General Jaap de Hoop Scheffer warmly welcomed Mr Sarkozy's announcement.

"[France's] full participation in all the civil and military decision-making and planning processes cannot but strengthen the alliance further," he said.

Correspondents say France's "independence" from Nato is dearly treasured by many French, and Mr Sarkozy's move has provoked a furore among those who fear it will now have to bow to US dominance.

The great fear, says the BBC's Emma Jane Kirby in Paris, is that France will now be at the beck and call of the US, and may well be dragged into conflicts in which it did not want to be involved.

"Nothing today justifies returning to Nato military command," said the leader of the opposition Socialists, Martine Aubry.

"There's no hurry, no fundamental need, except for this Atlanticism that's becoming an ideology."

But Defence Minister Herve Morin rejected claims France would now be forced to go along with the US on issues like the war with Iraq, which it vehemently opposed.

Germany, he noted, has remained fully integrated in Nato yet opposed the war.

Renewing France's relations with Nato "will benefit the alliance, benefit Europe and benefit France", Mr Morin said. "It will be done without calling into question the independence of France."

Indeed, it would allow France to take a greater role in shaping military strategy, he argued.

Javier Solana, the European Union's foreign policy chief, said France's re-entry into NATO would benefit security in Europe.

"I think it's very important that France returns to the alliance completely," he said.

"I think for those who believe, as myself, that there is a need of having a capacity, a military capacity, within the European Union, it's a very important decision that France is going to take."

While in 1966 France withdrew from Nato's decision-making core, its nuclear weapons structure and planning committee, it never left the alliance itself.

Indeed, it has been one of the most active members, supplying troops under allied command in Bosnia, Kosovo and in Afghanistan, where it has suffered significant losses.

Analysts say France has actually been gradually moving closer to the heart of Nato since the end of the Cold War.

LINK

News of NATOs demise were greatly exaggerated it seems. It also seems like the days of futile French attempts to create a counterbalance to US are over.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

I doubt it. Rejoining NATO command means that France can now better influence NATO decisions. Whether or not they would work against or with the US remains to be seen.

And who's been talking about the demise of NATO?

[MarshalFoch]

This has been coming for sometime since Sarkozy got elected, if not before then. Barring the split over Iraq I thought France was even moving towards this as far back as the 1980's. Is NATO as American-dominated as it was during the Cold War, or has the US divested forces and relinquished more to the Europeans lately?

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

This has been coming for sometime since Sarkozy got elected, if not before then. Barring the split over Iraq I thought France was even moving towards this as far back as the 1980's. Is NATO as American-dominated as it was during the Cold War, or has the US divested forces and relinquished more to the Europeans lately?

Depends how one looks at it. NATO may be "American dominated" but they have been quite resistant to loaning the US more forces to fight in Afghanistan.

[Phantasee]

It may be a case of, 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'. They might have decided to try and influence the US and the rest of NATO from within, rather than yelling at them from without.

And now it's all a big happy family again! Don't you feel all warm and fuzzy after reading this story?

[Samuel]

It may be a case of, 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'. They might have decided to try and influence the US and the rest of NATO from within, rather than yelling at them from without.

And now it's all a big happy family again! Don't you feel all warm and fuzzy after reading this story?

That's the naplam.

More seriously, who does NATO have left to fight? Is the Russian Federation it? I don't really see them rolling over Europe.

[Darksider]

Maybe Russia will join NATO and fight the Chinese.

[MarshalFoch]

Maybe Russia will join NATO and fight the Chinese.

I do recall many people in the 90's talking about Russia joining NATO, though I don't think the Chinese were considered the reason for it. I don't think there was ever really a reason behind it except trying to justify NATO's existence in the post-Cold War. The increased French presence in NATO should be a positive balance force. IIRC they were against NATO's rapid eastward expansion (Ukraine, Georgia) that antagonized Russia. Though I'm not sure if reintegrating into the military command will gain them much in the political sphere, which I believe they were always in.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

I do recall many people in the 90's talking about Russia joining NATO, though I don't think the Chinese were considered the reason for it. I don't think there was ever really a reason behind it except trying to justify NATO's existence in the post-Cold War. The increased French presence in NATO should be a positive balance force. IIRC they were against NATO's rapid eastward expansion (Ukraine, Georgia) that antagonized Russia. Though I'm not sure if reintegrating into the military command will gain them much in the political sphere, which I believe they were always in.

Well, you know, the addition of France actually counterbalances the newbie members of Nato, which is actually bad for the US since most of their support comes from the E. European countries, and not for W. Europe. Old Europe vs New Europe again.

[ray245]

Maybe Russia will join NATO and fight the Chinese.

You do know that ties between China and Russia are still considered to be quite warm right?

Also, what does NATO have to gain by seeking China as an enemy?

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

Maybe Russia will join NATO and fight the Chinese.

You do know that ties between China and Russia are still considered to be quite warm right?

Also, what does NATO have to gain by seeking China as an enemy?

There's no absolute guarantee that China will always be a friend of Russia. See: Cold War.

[Samuel]

Maybe Russia will join NATO and fight the Chinese.

You do know that ties between China and Russia are still considered to be quite warm right?

Also, what does NATO have to gain by seeking China as an enemy?

A way to get the US to spend cash to upgrade the European Reaction Force so that the member states don't have to pay for it? I don't know, although the organization has strayed pretty far from "North Atlantic" if it goes that route.

[ray245]

Maybe Russia will join NATO and fight the Chinese.

You do know that ties between China and Russia are still considered to be quite warm right?

Also, what does NATO have to gain by seeking China as an enemy?

There's no absolute guarantee that China will always be a friend of Russia. See: Cold War.

I know, I'm simply talking about Status Quo. The same can be said in regards to NATO nations as well, given that how the 'west' tried to screw over Russia after the fall of USSR.

[Lonestar]

You do know that ties between China and Russia are still considered to be quite warm right?

Also, what does NATO have to gain by seeking China as an enemy?

He was making fun of the plot of Tom Clancy's The Bear and the Dragon.

[Darksider]

He was making fun of the plot of Tom Clancy's The Bear and the Dragon.

Dammit Lonestar!

Why'd you tip them off?

I was laughing my ass off wondering how long it would take them to figure it out.

[Samuel]

You do know that ties between China and Russia are still considered to be quite warm right?

Also, what does NATO have to gain by seeking China as an enemy?

He was making fun of the plot of Tom Clancy's The Bear and the Dragon.

I just looked at the wiki... thankfully I didn't read past Sum of All Fears. Holy shit they are kooky.

[Aratech]

You do know that ties between China and Russia are still considered to be quite warm right?

Also, what does NATO have to gain by seeking China as an enemy?

He was making fun of the plot of Tom Clancy's The Bear and the Dragon.

I just looked at the wiki... thankfully I didn't read past Sum of All Fears. Holy shit they are kooky.

If I may ask, what exactly happens? Can't possibly be as kooky as Defcon... can it?

[Sea Skimmer]

If I may ask, what exactly happens? Can't possibly be as kooky as Defcon... can it?

Its just its own breed of awful.

After 800 pages, no joke 800 fucking pages, of largely pure bullshit building up to it (plus his last two entire books!) China decides to invade Russia to steal an oil field. Do the Chinese attack at numerous points, seizing key Russian facilities and cutting the Trans Siberian? Of course not, that’d make half a lick of sense. No instead the Chinese send an entire mechanized army group into Russia on a front exactly as wide as ONE ROAD, rolling dead north to reach the oil field which at the time is completely undeveloped and thus completely without immediate value.

Then one American armored division shows up, cuts off the Chinese essentially without a loss, one air strike cripples the entire Chinese supply system, and meanwhile while a couple Russian divisions defeat the whole rest of the invasion force in a single afternoon. Then Chinas government is overthrown by a small mob of students and the book ends. All combat is resolved in about 100 more pages, most of which is still just political backroom chats. It fucking sucks crap and could not have tried to be more devoiced from reality, and in a very bad not entertaining way. I’d rank it about on par with an Ian Slater book. It’s pretty clear it was meant to be longer too, but Clancy’s worthless editors finally managed to put the breaks on him before he broke 1000 pages. Mt brain hurts just thinking about it.

[MKSheppard]

You forgot Dale Brown! A single EB-52 unleases a swarm of guided munitions which wipes out an entire armored division!

[Coyote]

Thanks a lot, Skimmer! Traumatic Memory Suppression Syndrome had pretty much allowed me to forget I'd read that book until your explanation forced me to remember it again. I'll send you the bill for the therapy I'll need... when I'm done crying.

[Patrick Degan]

If I may ask, what exactly happens? Can't possibly be as kooky as Defcon... can it?

Its just its own breed of awful.

After 800 pages, no joke 800 fucking pages, of largely pure bullshit building up to it (plus his last two entire books!) China decides to invade Russia to steal an oil field. Do the Chinese attack at numerous points, seizing key Russian facilities and cutting the Trans Siberian? Of course not, that’d make half a lick of sense. No instead the Chinese send an entire mechanized army group into Russia on a front exactly as wide as ONE ROAD, rolling dead north to reach the oil field which at the time is completely undeveloped and thus completely without immediate value.

Then one American armored division shows up, cuts off the Chinese essentially without a loss, one air strike cripples the entire Chinese supply system, and meanwhile while a couple Russian divisions defeat the whole rest of the invasion force in a single afternoon. Then Chinas government is overthrown by a small mob of students and the book ends. All combat is resolved in about 100 more pages, most of which is still just political backroom chats. It fucking sucks crap and could not have tried to be more devoiced from reality, and in a very bad not entertaining way. I’d rank it about on par with an Ian Slater book. It’s pretty clear it was meant to be longer too, but Clancy’s worthless editors finally managed to put the breaks on him before he broke 1000 pages. Mt brain hurts just thinking about it.

So... Mr. Clancy has learned the fanboy art of typing out stories with only one hand on the keyboard and the other wrapped around his dick.

[Phantasee]

Thanks a lot, Skimmer! Traumatic Memory Suppression Syndrome had pretty much allowed me to forget I'd read that book until your explanation forced me to remember it again. I'll send you the bill for the therapy I'll need... when I'm done crying.

God damn it, I had completely forgotten about it, and Skimmer's description still wasn't ringing any bells, right up until he got to the ending, with the student's taking over the government. It was retarded. They sit down next to the old men, and Feng or whatever his name is was all happy to see another revolution for some reason.

Feng was an old-timer who was a MAVERICK in the Chinese Politburo or something. OH! And the American CIA agent who seduces his secretary! That was awesome.

[Sea Skimmer]

Thanks a lot, Skimmer! Traumatic Memory Suppression Syndrome had pretty much allowed me to forget I'd read that book until your explanation forced me to remember it again. I'll send you the bill for the therapy I'll need... when I'm done crying.

But why would you need that when you’re glorious HAB health insurance policy will cover the cost of a single 9mm FMJ projectile, as well as a simple diagram on how to lodge it in the cranium? 20 dollar co-pay if you want the .40cal HP though.

So... Mr. Clancy has learned the fanboy art of typing out stories with only one hand on the keyboard and the other wrapped around his dick.

Something like that, I checked too, it is 1017 pages. He spent enough years writing that one hand would be no trouble. I think though that even Clancy realized how much his mega novels had come to suck crap, since he’s only written two more books since then (which some people think were written by ghost writers anyway) and both were short and fairly concise plot wise.

[Samuel]

Hey, it is the sequel to "Japan declares war on the US". I have that book on my shelf, but I never got around to reading it. Now I have a good reason not to. Thank you wiki for saving me 40 hours of my life!

But why would you need that when you’re glorious HAB health insurance policy will cover the cost of a single 9mm FMJ projectile, as well as a simple diagram on how to lodge it in the cranium? 20 dollar co-pay if you want the .40cal HP though.

I thoght HAB was more efficient. Woldn't it be easier to just have him walk into the industrial fod processors?

[Sea Skimmer]

Hey, it is the sequel to "Japan declares war on the US". I have that book on my shelf, but I never got around to reading it. Now I have a good reason not to. Thank you wiki for saving me 40 hours of my life!

That one is even more absurd plot wise, it has to introduce the whole ‘RAR China Shall Conquer The Earth!’ plot but the ending combat is at least ever so slightly rational. Same for the stuff in ‘Iran-Iraq biowarfare sneak attack’ which comes in-between. Not saying you should even think about reading them.

I thoght HAB was more efficient. Woldn't it be easier to just have him walk into the industrial fod processors?

If we did that then we could not dissect his rotting corpse for a study of wounding ballistics.