Decline Of The Culture Wars

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FSTargetDrone
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Decline Of The Culture Wars

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The New York Times:
March 15, 2009
Op-Ed Columnist
The Culture Warriors Get Laid Off
By FRANK RICH

SOMEDAY we’ll learn the whole story of why George W. Bush brushed off that intelligence briefing of Aug. 6, 2001, “Bin Laden Determined to Strike in U.S.” But surely a big distraction was the major speech he was readying for delivery on Aug. 9, his first prime-time address to the nation. The subject — which Bush hyped as “one of the most profound of our time” — was stem cells. For a presidency in thrall to a thriving religious right (and a presidency incapable of multi-tasking), nothing, not even terrorism, could be more urgent.

When Barack Obama ended the Bush stem-cell policy last week, there were no such overheated theatrics. No oversold prime-time address. No hysteria from politicians, the news media or the public. The family-values dinosaurs that once stalked the earth — Falwell, Robertson, Dobson and Reed — are now either dead, retired or disgraced. Their less-famous successors pumped out their pro forma e-mail blasts, but to little avail. The Republican National Committee said nothing whatsoever about Obama’s reversal of Bush stem-cell policy. That’s quite a contrast to 2006, when the party’s wild and crazy (and perhaps transitory) new chairman, Michael Steele, likened embryonic stem-cell research to Nazi medical experiments during his failed Senate campaign.

What has happened between 2001 and 2009 to so radically change the cultural climate? Here, at last, is one piece of good news in our global economic meltdown: Americans have less and less patience for the intrusive and divisive moral scolds who thrived in the bubbles of the Clinton and Bush years. Culture wars are a luxury the country — the G.O.P. included — can no longer afford.

Not only was Obama’s stem-cell decree an anticlimactic blip in the news, but so was his earlier reversal of Bush restrictions on the use of federal money by organizations offering abortions overseas. When the administration tardily ends “don’t ask, don’t tell,” you can bet that this action, too, will be greeted by more yawns than howls.

Once again, both the president and the country are following New Deal-era precedent. In the 1920s boom, the reigning moral crusade was Prohibition, and it packed so much political muscle that F.D.R. didn’t oppose it. The Anti-Saloon League was the Moral Majority of its day, the vanguard of a powerful fundamentalist movement that pushed anti-evolution legislation as vehemently as it did its war on booze. (The Scopes “monkey trial” was in 1925.) But the political standing of this crowd crashed along with the stock market. Roosevelt shrewdly came down on the side of “the wets” in his presidential campaign, leaving Hoover to drown with “the dries.”

Much as Obama repealed the Bush restrictions on abortion and stem-cell research shortly after pushing through his stimulus package, so F.D.R. jump-started the repeal of Prohibition by asking Congress to legalize beer and wine just days after his March 1933 inauguration and declaration of a bank holiday. As Michael A. Lerner writes in his fascinating 2007 book “Dry Manhattan,” Roosevelt’s stance reassured many Americans that they would have a president “who not only cared about their economic well-being” but who also understood their desire to be liberated from “the intrusion of the state into their private lives.” Having lost plenty in the Depression, the public did not want to surrender any more freedoms to the noisy minority that had shut down the nation’s saloons.

In our own hard times, the former moral “majority” has been downsized to more of a minority than ever. Polling shows that nearly 60 percent of Americans agree with ending Bush restrictions on stem-cell research (a Washington Post/ABC News survey in January); that 55 percent endorse either gay civil unions or same-sex marriage (Newsweek, December 2008); and that 75 percent believe openly gay Americans should serve in the military (Post/ABC, July 2008). Even the old indecency wars have subsided. When a federal court last year struck down the F.C.C. fine against CBS for Janet Jackson’s “wardrobe malfunction” at the 2004 Super Bowl, few Americans either noticed or cared about the latest twist in what had once been a national cause célèbre.

It’s not hard to see why Eric Cantor, the conservative House firebrand who is vehemently opposed to stem-cell research, was disinclined to linger on the subject when asked about it on CNN last Sunday. He instead accused the White House of acting on stem cells as a ploy to distract from the economy. “Let’s take care of business first,” he said. “People are out of jobs.” (On this, he’s joining us late, but better late than never.)

Even were the public still in the mood for fiery invective about family values, the G.O.P. has long since lost any authority to lead the charge. The current Democratic president and his family are exemplars of precisely the Eisenhower-era squareness — albeit refurbished by feminism — that the Republicans often preached but rarely practiced. Obama actually walks the walk. As the former Bush speechwriter David Frum recently wrote, the new president is an “apparently devoted husband and father” whose worst vice is “an occasional cigarette.”

Frum was contrasting Obama to his own party’s star attraction, Rush Limbaugh, whose “history of drug dependency” and “tangled marital history” make him “a walking stereotype of self-indulgence.” Indeed, the two top candidates for leader of the post-Bush G.O.P, Rush and Newt, have six marriages between them. The party that once declared war on unmarried welfare moms, homosexual “recruiters” and Bill Clinton’s private life has been rebranded by Mark Foley, Larry Craig, David Vitter and the irrepressible Palins. Even before the economy tanked, Americans had more faith in medical researchers using discarded embryos to battle Parkinson’s and Alzheimer’s than in Washington politicians making ad hoc medical decisions for Terri Schiavo.

What’s been revealing about watching conservatives debate their fate since their Election Day Waterloo is how, the occasional Frum excepted, so many of them don’t want to confront the obsolescence of culture wars as a political crutch. They’d rather, like Cantor, just change the subject — much as they avoid talking about Bush and avoid reckoning with the doomed demographics of the G.O.P.’s old white male base. To recognize all these failings would be to confront why a once-national party can now be tucked into the Bible Belt.

The religious right is even more in denial than the Republicans. When Obama nominated Kathleen Sebelius, the Roman Catholic Kansas governor who supports abortion rights, as his secretary of health and human services, Tony Perkins, the leader of the Family Research Council, became nearly as apoplectic as the other Tony Perkins playing Norman Bates. “If Republicans won’t take a stand now, when will they?” the godly Perkins thundered online. But Congressional Republicans ignored him, sending out (at most) tepid press releases of complaint, much as they did in response to Obama’s stem-cell order. The two antiabortion Kansas Republicans in the Senate, Sam Brownback and Pat Roberts, both endorsed Sebelius.

Perkins is now praying that economic failure will be a stimulus for his family-values business. “As the economy goes downward,” he has theorized, “I think people are going to be driven to religion.” Wrong again. The latest American Religious Identification Survey, published last week, found that most faiths have lost ground since 1990 and that the fastest-growing religious choice is “None,” up from 8 percent to 15 percent (which makes it larger than all denominations except Roman Catholics and Baptists). Another highly regarded poll, the General Social Survey, had an even more startling finding in its preliminary 2008 data released this month: Twice as many Americans have a “great deal” of confidence in the scientific community as do in organized religion. How the almighty has fallen: organized religion is in a dead heat with banks and financial institutions on the confidence scale.

This, too, is a replay of the Great Depression. “One might have expected that in such a crisis great numbers of these people would have turned to the consolations of and inspirations of religion,” wrote Frederick Lewis Allen in “Since Yesterday,” his history of the 1930s published in 1940. But that did not happen: “The long slow retreat of the churches into less and less significance in the life of the country, and even in the lives of the majority of their members, continued almost unabated.”

The new American faith, Allen wrote, was the “secular religion of social consciousness.” It took the form of campaigns for economic and social justice — as exemplified by the New Deal and those movements that challenged it from both the left and the right. It’s too early in our crisis and too early in the new administration to know whether this decade will so closely replicate the 1930s, but so far Obama has far more moral authority than any religious leader in America with the possible exception of his sometime ally, the Rev. Rick Warren.

History is cyclical, and it would be foolhardy to assume that the culture wars will never return. But after the humiliations of the Scopes trial and the repeal of Prohibition, it did take a good four decades for the religious right to begin its comeback in the 1970s. In our tough times, when any happy news can be counted as a miracle, a 40-year exodus for these ayatollahs can pass for an answer to America’s prayers.
There are a lot of links embedded in the story on the original page, so I suggest looking at that.

Anyway, this cannot happen soon enough. Maybe we really will continue to see a decline of this nonsense. We've already seen stories talking about the reduction of money from parishioners going to various churches, so that's a start.
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Re: Decline Of The Culture Wars

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Good riddance. Hopefully, we won't get ANOTHER bout with necrophilia, in which the religiously devout's obsession with corpses and a long-dead man's life trumps the needs of the LIVING. Now who supports stem cell research in the hopes it'll provide a cure for spinal injuries, degenerative diseases, and other debilitating medical conditions?
Please do not make Americans fight giant monsters.

Those gun nuts do not understand the meaning of "overkill," and will simply use weapon after weapon of mass destruction (WMD) until the monster is dead, or until they run out of weapons.

They have more WMD than there are monsters for us to fight. (More insanity here.)
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Re: Decline Of The Culture Wars

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It seems preaching and riding a high horse isn't that fun when the horse is about to collapse you on the cold, harsh poverty-stricken ground so you'd swallow some handful of sharp rocks that's reality.
Sidewinder wrote:Hopefully, we won't get ANOTHER bout with necrophilia, in which the religiously devout's obsession with corpses and a long-dead man's life trumps the needs of the LIVING.
I'm almost afraid to ask: would you please elaborate?
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Re: Decline Of The Culture Wars

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Sidewinder wrote:Now who supports stem cell research in the hopes it'll provide a cure for spinal injuries, degenerative diseases, and other debilitating medical conditions?
It will be interesting to see if any other high-profile conservative or conservative-affiliated types such as Nancy Reagan start to speak out in support of stem cell research.
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Re: Decline Of The Culture Wars

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Zixinus wrote:It seems preaching and riding a high horse isn't that fun when the horse is about to collapse you on the cold, harsh poverty-stricken ground so you'd swallow some handful of sharp rocks that's reality.
Hopefully, we won't get ANOTHER bout with necrophilia, in which the religiously devout's obsession with corpses and a long-dead man's life trumps the needs of the LIVING.
I'm almost afraid to ask: would you please elaborate?
Regarding stem cells, much of the controversy stems from the fact (pun not intended) most stem cells come from embryos, whether leftovers from attempts to create test tube babies, purposefully created so researchers may harvest stem cells (killing the embryo in the process), or- Gasp!- abortions. Much of the moral arguments are made in the name of Christian values, and Christ has been dead for about 1980 years!
Please do not make Americans fight giant monsters.

Those gun nuts do not understand the meaning of "overkill," and will simply use weapon after weapon of mass destruction (WMD) until the monster is dead, or until they run out of weapons.

They have more WMD than there are monsters for us to fight. (More insanity here.)
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Re: Decline Of The Culture Wars

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Sweet jesus ...
What President Barack Obama did when he reversed President George W. Bush’s executive order banning embryonic stem cell research was based not on solid science, but his desire to cater to the anti-life, pro-abortion forces and their media allies who helped elect him.
In doing this, he created the potential for an outbreak of potentially fatal cancerous tumors caused by the therapeutic use of embryonic stem cells.

Moreover, he killed another Bush presidential order that funded some of the most promising research on the creation of embryonic-like stem cells from harmless but potent adult stem cells.

What President Obama did when he rescinded President Bush's federal ban on certain lines of embryonic stem cell research ultimately could cost American lives.

Obama and his subservient mainstream media allies ignored science in favor of politics, and the results will prove to be disastrous.

What most people are unaware of is that there are three types of stem cell research: there is embryonic stem cell research (ESC), there is induced pluripotent (IPSC) research, and adult stem cell research (ASC).

When Barack Obama rescinded George Bush’s ban on federal funding on certain types of embryonic stem cell research he also rescinded Bush’s Executive Order 13435 which had provided federal funding for induced pluripotent stem cell research using harmless adult stem cells manipulated into mimicking embryonic stem cells without the risk ESC cells entail.

This is where 72 different diseases are now being remedied or cured.

There are no embryonic stem cells being used anywhere in the world on humans, with one tragic exception. A boy treated with embryonic stem cells for a rare genetic disease developed benign tumors, casting doubt on claims of the therapy's safety and effectiveness.

According to media reports, the boy, now 17, received the ESC stem cells in 2001 at a Moscow hospital and four years later scans showed brain and spinal tumors. Israeli doctors removed the abnormal growth from his spine and their tests show it most probably was caused by the stem cells.

The Moscow doctors should have known better. It is well known that lab animals given embryonic stem cells routinely develop tumors and other malignant growths that eventually kill them. There is a 100 percent mortality rate among lab animals that develop these tumors.

That’s why Bush banned this lethal form of research that Obama, who should have known better, has now legitimized by overturning this life-saving ban.

The reason that major drug companies such as Merck and Pfizer are not funding ESC research is because they have seen the research and it scared the daylights out of them. They realized that if they injected ESC cells into human beings and like lab animals, they show signs of cancers or lesions or tumors there will be huge class-action suits, because they would have ignored all of the available data in research that shows that that's exactly what will happen.

The fact of the matter is embryonic stem cells kill. The research shows conclusively that they help rats and mice die and an Israeli boy grow tumors.

Obama rescinded Bush's executive order banning this dangerous research, which has failed everywhere it has been tried, and then went on to eliminate funding for some of the most promising research on the use of pluripotent adult stem cells.

Unfortunately, those opposed to these actions have made the mistake of concentrating on the pro-life aspects of this controversy, while ignoring the scientific aspects, which prove our case conclusively.

We can win this case, by concentrating on the science, which is on our side.

Anyone who is willing to inject embryonic stem cell into their bodies needs to understand that -- like the Israeli boy and the lab animals-- they will grow tumors and lesions.
The fundies haven't all been quiet about this. Ronald Reagan's eldest son is out of his mind.
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Re: Decline Of The Culture Wars

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Anyone who is willing to inject embryonic stem cell into their bodies needs to understand that -- like the Israeli boy and the lab animals-- they will grow tumors and lesions.
Boy, that's a pretty damn definitive statement based on the evidence from what, one whole case?
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Re: Decline Of The Culture Wars

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FSTargetDrone wrote:
Sidewinder wrote:Now who supports stem cell research in the hopes it'll provide a cure for spinal injuries, degenerative diseases, and other debilitating medical conditions?
It will be interesting to see if any other high-profile conservative or conservative-affiliated types such as Nancy Reagan start to speak out in support of stem cell research.
Nancy Reagan already has done so, and has done so for years (I believe explicitly and officially since 2004), being an advocate of research into treating Alzheimer's.
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Re: Decline Of The Culture Wars

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What President Barack Obama did when he reversed President George W. Bush’s executive order banning embryonic stem cell research was based not on solid science, but his desire to cater to the anti-life, pro-abortion forces and their media allies who helped elect him.
In doing this, he created the potential for an outbreak of potentially fatal cancerous tumors caused by the therapeutic use of embryonic stem cells.
And yet the only case the author mentions in humans concerned benign tumors.
Moreover, he killed another Bush presidential order that funded some of the most promising research on the creation of embryonic-like stem cells from harmless but potent adult stem cells.
There is no reason to thing adult stem cells are any more or less harmful than stem cells from embryos. Any time you implant something into a living human there is a risk.
What most people are unaware of is that there are three types of stem cell research: there is embryonic stem cell research (ESC), there is induced pluripotent (IPSC) research, and adult stem cell research (ASC).

When Barack Obama rescinded George Bush’s ban on federal funding on certain types of embryonic stem cell research he also rescinded Bush’s Executive Order 13435 which had provided federal funding for induced pluripotent stem cell research using harmless adult stem cells manipulated into mimicking embryonic stem cells without the risk ESC cells entail.
Once cells are pluripotent it doesn't matter what their origin was - there is still the potential for things to go awry, and in a similar manner regardless of origin. The main advantage of using induced pluripotent ASC's is to prevent immune reactions in the recipient, assuming you use the recipient's own cells to start with. However, this will not work in all instances. For example, if the problem is a genetic defect then the pluripotent stem cells from the patient will still contain that defect unless further work is done on the cells, altering them genetically, or cells are taken from a donor without said defect but then you're back to potential rejection problems.
There are no embryonic stem cells being used anywhere in the world on humans, with one tragic exception. A boy treated with embryonic stem cells for a rare genetic disease developed benign tumors, casting doubt on claims of the therapy's safety and effectiveness.
I would really like to have more information about this, such as the disease treated. If it's SCIDS tumor growth is a common complication of the disorder regardless of treatment (the Bubble Boy was found to have many tumors after he died and was autopsied, as just one example) and thus you couldn't pin this on the stem-cell treatment. If it was something else maybe you could - but notice there is not enough information given for this to be independently verified by the reader.

I am aware of a trial regarding stem cell treatment for Parkinson's that ended in disaster and was halted early due to horrifically bad outcomes. I don't know for sure if the stem cells used were embryonic in origin, but that is my recollection. However, only one of the "disasters" stemming from this involved a tumor which was definitely a result of stem cell treatment (the tumor cell's DNA matched the stem cell DNA, not the recipient's DNA). The fact that clinical trial is not mentioned in the article makes me doubt the veracity of their claims. Regrettably, I no longer have access to the means to look up which clinical trial this specifically was, and in any case I'm pretty sure the study directors never published anything on it given the extreme negativity of the results.

The same trial also resulted in at least one suicide in a patient with a bad outcome, yet no one is suggesting stem cells cause suicide, are they?
The Moscow doctors should have known better. It is well known that lab animals given embryonic stem cells routinely develop tumors and other malignant growths that eventually kill them. There is a 100 percent mortality rate among lab animals that develop these tumors.
If it's "well known" how come I've never heard of this before now? In any case, many strains of laboratory animals are deliberately bred with deficient immune systems to facilitate certain types of research and even without being in an experiment (think breeding stock) such animals almost invariably develop tumors or cancer. Without knowing if the strain of laboratory animals used has an intact immune system that statement means little.
That’s why Bush banned this lethal form of research that Obama, who should have known better, has now legitimized by overturning this life-saving ban.
No, Bush banned ESC research to appease superstitious, ignorant, fear-mongering Bible-thumpers who care more for a smear of cells than for living human beings.
The fact of the matter is embryonic stem cells kill. The research shows conclusively that they help rats and mice die and an Israeli boy grow tumors.
Again - without knowing the underlying disease in the "Israeli boy" we can't know if his tumors are related to the stem cell treatment or not. Perhaps I should point out that, apparently, the "Israeli boy" survived the tumors and is now fine...? And again - without knowing the particular laboratory strains of "rats and mice" this means little.
Obama rescinded Bush's executive order banning this dangerous research, which has failed everywhere it has been tried,
Wait - they said it's been tried in humans only once - that is not a statistically significant sample. Yes, I happen to know of an instance where stem cell therapy did cause a fatal brain tumor, but even with that, two is not a statistically significant sample and the fact is there are many medical treatments that raise the risk for cancer, from treatment for severe psoriasis to certain types of immune suppression for severe asthma and COPD to organ transplant to, ironically enough, radiation and some chemotherapy agents used to treat cancer. A risk of cancer does not automatically make a treatment "too dangerous" to use for some otherwise fatal diseases.
and then went on to eliminate funding for some of the most promising research on the use of pluripotent adult stem cells.
I fail to see where pluripotent adult stem cells are any less dangerous than their ESC counterparts.

Certain types of adult stem cells - those already partially differentiated - may well be safer just because there are fewer things they could turn into. But those, by definition, are not "pluripotent".
We can win this case, by concentrating on the science, which is on our side.
No, it's not.
Anyone who is willing to inject embryonic stem cell into their bodies needs to understand that -- like the Israeli boy and the lab animals-- they will grow tumors and lesions.
People who receive transplanted organs also have a risk of tumors and cancer, yet it is seen and a worthwhile treatment for some conditions.
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Re: Decline Of The Culture Wars

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As has been pointed out elsewhere the Bible contains definitive statements about killing children and under what situations it is permissible to kill your wife if she's pregnant with someone else's kid. What it does not contain is a strict mention that "Don't have abortions". All the religious fervor over such rules is a recent invention of the last two centuries.

Predictably with time (Say in another four decades) the(Edit American) Christians will revert to the same stance with Blasphemers. It would be frowned on but no longer carry a death sentence or social pariah status.

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Re: Decline Of The Culture Wars

Post by Coyote »

I think the Talibangelicals are looking for a cause celebre to stir their base. They're going to hammer things like abortion, stem cells and gay marriage --gays in the military, too, when the rumors of confronting DADT come up-- anything they can to seek a chink in the armor of the Democrats that will stir the people to their side.

So far, even after the Prop-8 controversy, gay marriage has not been tackled by the Obama Administration-- they're content to let the lower ranks throw ideas around to test the waters. Same with the other issues, aside from stem cells which they're tackling head-on. I think that's a good fight to pick, because unlike a lot of culture war stuff, the medical results from stem cell research promises to be a boon for all people at once, if an undeniable breakthrough is made. Less so things like gay marriage, which --while it is an important civil rights issue-- it is hard to see what the results will be for anyone who isn't gay.

We'll probably see DADT eroded before we see gay marriage. Again, it can be argued from a "benefit to all" perspective regarding readiness, manpower, etc. Once the government recognises the service of gays openly, then allowing marriage will be easier to usher in on those coattails.

It'll be interesting to see how the culture war issues morph in the next few years. The Democrats aren't even going to touch gun control, a traditional poison pill for them, and they've been very careful tiptoeing around abortion issues for the most part, as well... but the groundwork was laid when Obama in the campaign said that "we should remember that no one wants abortion" or words to that effect, and reminded his base that things like adoption, etc, are also valid choices that should be touted as well.

OTOH, the Democratic Party has very, very deftly co-opted the usual Republican butt-boys of Big Business to sign onto the concept of universal health care by making it a cost-cutting/competition issue. Well done, that.
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Re: Decline Of The Culture Wars

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Broomstick wrote:Nancy Reagan already has done so, and has done so for years (I believe explicitly and officially since 2004), being an advocate of research into treating Alzheimer's.
Yes, I know, I just worded it poorly. :oops: Reagan recently repeated her views on this after Obama's policy was announced, just last week:
March 9, 2009
Nancy Reagan praises Obama's stem cell policy change
Posted: 12:39 PM ET

(CNN) — Former first lady Nancy Reagan issued a statement Monday praising the president's change to federal policy on funding embryonic stem cell research.

STATEMENT BY NANCY REAGAN ON PRESIDENT OBAMA’S EXECUTIVE ORDER REGARDING STEM CELL RESEARCH

I’m very grateful that President Obama has lifted the restrictions on federal funding for embryonic stem cell research. These new rules will now make it possible for scientists to move forward. I urge researchers to make use of the opportunities that are available to them, and to do all they can to fulfill the promise that stem cell research offers.

Countless people, suffering from many different diseases, stand to benefit from the answers stem cell research can provide. We owe it to ourselves and to our children to do everything in our power to find cures for these diseases – and soon. As I’ve said before, time is short, and life is precious.
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Re: Decline Of The Culture Wars

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some nutter wrote:We can win this case, by concentrating on the science, which is on our side.
In that case then this is a non-issue then isn't it as if 'the science' is so against working with foetal stem cells then scientists obviously won't seek to do so will they? So all the little 'snow flake babies' will be perfectly safe in their freezers.
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Re: Decline Of The Culture Wars

Post by Darth Wong »

The Republicans have been laying low on the stem cell issue just because they're focusing their legions of dittoheads on other issues, not because they seriously intend to back off on their "moral agenda".

The fact is that fiscal conservatives need a moral cause in order to energize their movement. While the truly unapologetic selfish bastards may be able to work themselves up into a frothing libertarian rage by using Ayn Rand's teachings as a guide, most people need to feel that they stand for something greater, or else they'll just become apathetic.

If it isn't the Moral Majority and its intellectual legacy, then what will it be? Ayn Rand's "enlightened self-interest" bullshit is not a grand moral cause for any but the most craven selfish bastards among us. At least 80% to 90% of the population believes in Jesus, but the stuff Jesus actually preached about giving up the shirt on your back to help the poor is incompatible with Ayn Rand philosophy, to put it mildly. So what's left? Pretty much nothing except for sexual puritanism and hatred of scientists.
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Re: Decline Of The Culture Wars

Post by Mayabird »

The basis, the true heart and soul, of modern American evangelicalism/fundamentalism/Protestantism-for-idiots is marketing. That's what their preachers are taught and what they do in their churches, sell pre-made thoughts and beliefs.

The megachurches, their wannabe ilk, and their big names were caught up in the illusory financial boomtimes like other businesses and CEOs and they've taken the hit with them because people right now really don't have the stomach for the marketing. But people are fickle, with the long term memories of fruit flies, and marketeers are like a bunch of bacterial cells in media, dividing and mutating until one randomly hits a wildly beneficial mutation and spreads, enveloping the rest. Don't count them out yet. They're just waiting for the next big thing. It might look like flailing, but if enough of them fling enough feces, something will stick, and the flies will start buzzing around the shit again.


I apologize for mixing all those metaphors.
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Re: Decline Of The Culture Wars

Post by Einhander Sn0m4n »

Darth Wong wrote:So what's left? Pretty much nothing except for sexual puritanism and hatred of scientists.
Both of these are pretty obvious non-starters, too. Essentially nobody wants to be told what they can and cannot do in their own castle, which is why the Culture Warriors are out of a job. The Last Eight Years™ showed us what we get with anti-science: Hell on Earth.
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Re: Decline Of The Culture Wars

Post by Vendetta »

Einhander Sn0m4n wrote: Essentially nobody wants to be told what they can and cannot do in their own castle, which is why the Culture Warriors are out of a job. The Last Eight Years™ showed us what we get with anti-science: Hell on Earth.
There are still plenty of people who want to tell others what to do in their castles though. And the point is that you can use that to unite them as a political bloc.
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Re: Decline Of The Culture Wars

Post by Darth Wong »

Einhander Sn0m4n wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:So what's left? Pretty much nothing except for sexual puritanism and hatred of scientists.
Both of these are pretty obvious non-starters, too. Essentially nobody wants to be told what they can and cannot do in their own castle, which is why the Culture Warriors are out of a job. The Last Eight Years™ showed us what we get with anti-science: Hell on Earth.
Obviously, the white-bread Christians behind the "Culture War" don't think it will ever affect their own castles. That's why they take such great pains to focus their puritanical bullshit on sins they're unlikely to commit, like homosexuality. That's why you don't see them raising a stink about divorce, because while that's just as much of an affront to "traditional marriage", they know it might happen to them. It's like that old line about how they came for the Jews, and I said nothing because I am not a Jew.
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Re: Decline Of The Culture Wars

Post by The Yosemite Bear »

someone refrenced me to This Bit last night, an article on the militia terrorists and how well it describes some of our Rush/Fox news personalities....
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