Lithuania must stand up to anti-Semitism [Op/Ed]

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Lithuania must stand up to anti-Semitism [Op/Ed]

Post by K. A. Pital »

Lithuania must stand up to anti-Semitism, by Abraham Foxman
Article wrote:Lithuania holds a special significance for me. It was where I survived the Holocaust. In the capital of Vilna, now Vilnius, my parents left me with my Polish Catholic nanny, who baptized me and raised me as her son, saving me from certain death at the hands of the Nazis. And the Nazis weren’t the only concern.

From 1941 to 1944, Lithuanian militias participated with the Nazis in killing around 95 percent of the country’s Jewish population, the largest percentage in any country during the Holocaust. Today, Lithuania is again distinguishing itself from the rest of Europe in a less murderous but still terrible way — through its tolerance for anti-Semitism.

In no other European country has the front page of a national newspaper featured a cartoon with a hook-nosed Jew and a homosexual holding a globe between them with the caption, “Who Controls the World?” None of Lithuania’s leaders condemned it.

European newspapers do not print such blatant anti-Semitism as an op-ed, entitled “The Rabbis are Wreaking Havoc in Lithuania,” whose first sentence reads “I don’t like Jews and nothing can be done about that.”

Unfortunately, these examples are not isolated cases of anti-Semitism in Lithuanian media. Some of the most hateful articles over the past year have been written by former and present members of Lithuania’s parliament, newspaper editors, and other opinion elites.

In no other country have World War II Jewish partisans — like the heroes of the movie Defiance — been named as “persons of interest” by state prosecutors. In May 2008, Lithuanian prosecutors announced that they were seeking two elderly Holocaust survivors, Fania Brantsovsky and Rachel Margolis. Brantsovsky, a former partisan, is a librarian at the Vilnius Yiddish Institute in Lithuania. Margolis, a historian of the partisans who discovered and published a long-lost diary by a witness of the murder of the Jews of Vilnius, lives in Israel, but each summer would give tours of the Vilna Ghetto. No longer. Today she fears interrogation and possible arrest if she were to visit her native Lithuania.

In no other country where it is illegal to incite ethnic hatred have the police escorted a neo-Nazi parade through the capital, as the marchers chanted the Nazi slogan “Juden raus!” (“Jews out!”) and sang “You take that little stick and kill that little Jew.” Lithuanian police did so last March. It took an entire week and complaints by Jewish organizations before Lithuanian President Adamkus criticized the march and the police inaction.

Only in Lithuania is the local Mardi Gras festival celebrated by dressing in costume “as Jews,” as the Lithuanians say, often with horns or long noses. This year a major television channel showed two revelers dressed as chasidic Jews, who sang about the global economic crisis to the tune of Hava Nagila.

Lithuania and Poland are also the only countries in Europe to prevent Jews from claiming Holocaust-era confiscated private property. Lithuanian law, unlike the laws of any other member state of the European Union, requires citizenship prior to December 2001 as a condition for restitution. Since Lithuanian law prohibited dual citizenship until July 2008, survivors or their descendants living outside of Lithuania — virtually all the claimants — were denied restitution.

The first step for Lithuania in addressing these problems is to recognize them. When the capital’s Jewish community center was spray-painted with swastikas and anti-Semitic slogans, President Adamkus did condemn the attack, saying that it should be considered “a destructive and sordid act against Lithuania as a whole, not only Lithuania’s Jewish community.” But it took a blatant and high-profile anti-Semitic incident and the world watching to produce such a statement, an exception to what should be the rule.

If the Lithuanian government wants to shed its dubious distinction, it knows the steps it must take. Condemn anti-Semitism. Prosecute those who incite violence against or intimidate the Lithuanian Jewish community. Clear the names of the Jewish partisans. Provide reasonable legal processes for property restitution.
I've heard about this on the local news, but it's really atrocious.

We have a similar march on the 4th of November (which should have never been made a holiday, because now it's just a day for neo-Nazis to march out), but "Kill that little Jew"? That stinks to high heavens. That's also not the whole story: the March 11 nazi "march" has been especially atrocious since apparently ONLY the Nazis were allowed to march and were specifically protected by the police. How's that even happening?

I think a prohibitive ban on nationalist holidays for Eastern Europe, including Russia, would have been a good idea. Giving Neo-Nazis of Russia, Ukraine and the Baltics a venue for preaching their "views" is unacceptable for civilized nations. 'Course, not gonna happen.
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Re: Lithuania must stand up to anti-Semitism [Op/Ed]

Post by Samuel »

Only in Lithuania is the local Mardi Gras festival celebrated by dressing in costume “as Jews,” as the Lithuanians say, often with horns or long noses.
And it turns out that Borat was not entirely a parody!

Seriously, I was aware that antisemtism was big in Eastern Europe, but this... this takes the cake. Any reason why it is still so big even though they killed all their Jews? You'd think they'd be happy now, but nooo.

Also, why are homosexuals being paired with jews? I wasn't aware of any alliance or is this "insane far right wing ravings" that by default don't make any sense?
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Re: Lithuania must stand up to anti-Semitism [Op/Ed]

Post by K. A. Pital »

Samuel wrote:Also, why are homosexuals being paired with jews?
Both manifest ungodly evil. What did you think it would be?
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Re: Lithuania must stand up to anti-Semitism [Op/Ed]

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Jews and homosexuals have always been a favored target for rightwingers, much like negroes and their "jazz" devilry.
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Re: Lithuania must stand up to anti-Semitism [Op/Ed]

Post by Chris OFarrell »

Stas Bush wrote: We have a similar march on the 4th of November (which should have never been made a holiday, because now it's just a day for neo-Nazis to march out), but "Kill that little Jew"? That stinks to high heavens. That's also not the whole story: the March 11 nazi "march" has been especially atrocious since apparently ONLY the Nazis were allowed to march and were specifically protected by the police. How's that even happening?
*sound of record being ripped off record player*

Wait wait wait...

You're telling me you have NAZI'S MARCHING?

In *Russia* ...

You have NAZI's MARCHING in celebration of the fact that they are Nazi's?

*head explodes*
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Re: Lithuania must stand up to anti-Semitism [Op/Ed]

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This is the first you've heard of that? It's a sickening, but well-known fact that young rightwingers thrive in the country that kicked their ideological forefather's ass all the way back to Germany half a century ago. Most has to do with the post-Soviet collapse and unemployment. And the nasty fact that some areas of Russian administration secretly endorses or at least willfully ignores these cases, due to the tried-and-true tactic "let's blame the xenos for all our self-inflicted domestic problems".
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Re: Lithuania must stand up to anti-Semitism [Op/Ed]

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VT-16 wrote:And the nasty fact that some areas of Russian administration secretly endorses or at least willfully ignores these cases, due to the tried-and-true tactic "let's blame the xenos for all our self-inflicted domestic problems".
We found a Nazi flag and regalia in the office of one regional leader recently which sent the guy on the run. It's bad.
Chris OFarrell wrote:You have NAZI's MARCHING in celebration of the fact that they are Nazi's?
"Russia for the Russians", "Kill all Blacks". Sound familiar? At least the last year they tried it, the police kicked their ass. Little solace, I know.

But in a nation griped by ever-rising polarization between the oligarchs and the poor underclass, and having a problem of millions of poor migrants travelling here just to become new cannon fodder for the mafia, did you think the ultra-right would not manage to get it's ugly head up?
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Re: Lithuania must stand up to anti-Semitism [Op/Ed]

Post by FSTargetDrone »

In no other European country has the front page of a national newspaper featured a cartoon with a hook-nosed Jew and a homosexual holding a globe between them with the caption, “Who Controls the World?” None of Lithuania’s leaders condemned it.
Subtle, aren't they?

I confess, I hear little of this part of the world in the "news" in these parts (however, I am trying to expose myself to more international news these days), though I was aware of the anti-semitic attitudes in parts of Europe, but I must say I am still surprised to see something so overt.
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Re: Lithuania must stand up to anti-Semitism [Op/Ed]

Post by Pelranius »

I thought Lithuanian neo nazis would be more interested in the ethnic Russians rather then the Jews, who have unfortunately all but disappeared from Lithuanian life since 1945. The Russians are more visible, anyways.
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Re: Lithuania must stand up to anti-Semitism [Op/Ed]

Post by Samuel »

Pelranius wrote:I thought Lithuanian neo nazis would be more interested in the ethnic Russians rather then the Jews, who have unfortunately all but disappeared from Lithuanian life since 1945. The Russians are more visible, anyways.
The Russians hit back. Hard. The jews? Not so much unless you are in the Middle East- and even then mostly just Palestine. It is classic bullying- hit people who are too weak to defend themselves.
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Re: Lithuania must stand up to anti-Semitism [Op/Ed]

Post by Molyneux »

Speaking as a quarter-Lithuanian Jew: the whole damned country can go fuck itself. I'm just glad that that part of my family got out of Europe before the Holocaust, even if my Polish relatives weren't all so lucky.
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Re: Lithuania must stand up to anti-Semitism [Op/Ed]

Post by Pelranius »

I wish to hell those retards weren't in NATO. There has to be some way to make them behave if we can't kick them out...

Don't they also have a national holiday for collaborators, or is that Ukraine?
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Re: Lithuania must stand up to anti-Semitism [Op/Ed]

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Stas Bush wrote:In no other country have World War II Jewish partisans — like the heroes of the movie Defiance — been named as “persons of interest” by state prosecutors.
Is this not a good thing, though? Partisans were typically nasty; if collaborators could be sentenced for their crimes, why not them as well? Just because you were on the winning side should not mean you are free from investigation.
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Re: Lithuania must stand up to anti-Semitism [Op/Ed]

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Sometimes the winning side was also the right side. Not always, not even frequently, but sometimes.
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Re: Lithuania must stand up to anti-Semitism [Op/Ed]

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Not in the Second World War, at any rate, when it included the Soviet Union. The less wrong one, perhaps.
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Re: Lithuania must stand up to anti-Semitism [Op/Ed]

Post by Fingolfin_Noldor »

Darth Hoth wrote:Is this not a good thing, though? Partisans were typically nasty; if collaborators could be sentenced for their crimes, why not them as well? Just because you were on the winning side should not mean you are free from investigation.
Crimes against whom? The Genevan Convention wasn't respected or even recognised by both sides on the Eastern Front. The only crime perhaps, is that you collaborated with the enemy and therefore a traitor to the state. And Collaborators on the Eastern Front have been known to participate in the killings of entire villages. Yeah, just what "crimes" are you talking about here?
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Re: Lithuania must stand up to anti-Semitism [Op/Ed]

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Darth Hoth wrote:Is this not a good thing, though?
Why? Do you realize what it took to be a partisan under Nazi rule? And what it took for a Jew? Do you also know that this nation mentioned in the op ceased process against collaborators and perpetrators of the Holocaust? Does that sound terribly good to you when pardoned Nazis parade and their partisan enemies get on trial?
Darth Hoth wrote:The less wrong one, perhaps.
The "20 million civilian deaths of difference" less wrong one. Hmm, I wonder why there weren't brave Nazi partisans standing up to the Allies, or their story untold. Maybe because the Allies never threw out the window the very idea that the population of Germany deserves to survive. And that's not even mentioning Japan. Seriously, "less wrong" in the context of World War II meant "life or death".

Especially for the Jews. I hope you do know that millions of Jews frantically ran through through the Soviet Union to escape genocide, to hide behind the lines. For the Jews, I doubt that they'd even for a moment consider the bullshit idea that the collaborators and their enemies were both deserving trial against some sort of "crimes".

What sort of "crime" can you do against people who are intent on your utter annihilation?
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Re: Lithuania must stand up to anti-Semitism [Op/Ed]

Post by Lord Woodlouse »

Stas Bush wrote:
VT-16 wrote:And the nasty fact that some areas of Russian administration secretly endorses or at least willfully ignores these cases, due to the tried-and-true tactic "let's blame the xenos for all our self-inflicted domestic problems".
We found a Nazi flag and regalia in the office of one regional leader recently which sent the guy on the run. It's bad.
Chris OFarrell wrote:You have NAZI's MARCHING in celebration of the fact that they are Nazi's?
"Russia for the Russians", "Kill all Blacks". Sound familiar? At least the last year they tried it, the police kicked their ass. Little solace, I know.

But in a nation griped by ever-rising polarization between the oligarchs and the poor underclass, and having a problem of millions of poor migrants travelling here just to become new cannon fodder for the mafia, did you think the ultra-right would not manage to get it's ugly head up?
Do these idiots not realise that the nazi ideology basically painted the Slavs and Russians as being fit only to serve as a slave race? :?
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Re: Lithuania must stand up to anti-Semitism [Op/Ed]

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Lord Woodlouse wrote:Do these idiots not realise that the nazi ideology basically painted the Slavs and Russians as being fit only to serve as a slave race? :?
Some less-known Nazi ideologues thought the Slavs were Aryan, some "pure" portion of them at least. (I think Rosenberg embraced this line to some extent privately; I would have to look up the more obscure ones.) They did not influence policy in the East very much, but modern-day Nazis can hold them up and say, "Hitler was wrong, this was true National Socialism!" Kind of like how some leftover Communists claim that the USSR was not "real" Communism, which would never have been oppressive.

Of course, a lot of people are simply stupid and ignorant of history . . .
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Re: Lithuania must stand up to anti-Semitism [Op/Ed]

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Stas Bush wrote:Why? Do you realize what it took to be a partisan under Nazi rule? And what it took for a Jew?
I have some idea, in that I have read of it. Of course, that is one of the things you can never understand completely if you have not experienced it. I also know that various groups of partisans and irregulars committed crimes against lives and property; if we can indict Nazi criminals, why not criminals on the other side?
Do you also know that this nation mentioned in the op ceased process against collaborators and perpetrators of the Holocaust? Does that sound terribly good to you when pardoned Nazis parade and their partisan enemies get on trial?
No, I must have missed that. Did they let off people for lack of evidence, or was it a general pardon? Because if the latter, then I agree that is pretty horrible.
The "20 million civilian deaths of difference" less wrong one. Hmm, I wonder why there weren't brave Nazi partisans standing up to the Allies, or their story untold. Maybe because the Allies never threw out the window the very idea that the population of Germany deserves to survive. And that's not even mentioning Japan. Seriously, "less wrong" in the context of World War II meant "life or death".
As I understand it, there were anti-Soviet partisans throughout the Baltic states after the war. I would not contest which side in the war was worse, of course.
Especially for the Jews. I hope you do know that millions of Jews frantically ran through through the Soviet Union to escape genocide, to hide behind the lines. For the Jews, I doubt that they'd even for a moment consider the bullshit idea that the collaborators and their enemies were both deserving trial against some sort of "crimes".
Partisans and resistance attacked civilian targets, in addition to military; this was true in the West, and I would very much doubt it would not be worse in the East (given that everything else was). Murder and terroristic destruction of private property should be punished if guilt can be discerned by due process, regardless of the status of the culprit.
What sort of "crime" can you do against people who are intent on your utter annihilation?
I doubt everyone in Lithuania personally wanted to murder every last Russian, and even if that had been so opinion alone is not a crime. I am not very much in favour of the idea of collective responsibility. If Lithuanian war criminals got of free, that is a damn shame. But attacks on civilians should always be condemned; the trying of Nazi war criminals after the war was a good idea, however botched it was. It would be even better if criminals on the winning side had also been tried.
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Re: Lithuania must stand up to anti-Semitism [Op/Ed]

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^ ...and this sort of crapola is in large part why Nazis can still find adherents and feel comfortable parading, today.
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Re: Lithuania must stand up to anti-Semitism [Op/Ed]

Post by Tiriol »

Kanastrous wrote:^ ...and this sort of crapola is in large part why Nazis can still find adherents and feel comfortable parading, today.
Please, do explain. From what I've seen, Darth Hoth merely offered the opinion in the above post that if the combatants, partisans etc. of the victorious side committed crimes during the war, they should also be punished and not let off the hook simply because fate decreed that theirs was the winning side in the end. I actually believe that Grand Admiral Karl Dönitz got a lighter sentence after an US officer of the Pacific theatre pointed out that if Dönitz would be prosecuted for ordering his U-boats and other naval assets not to rescue survivors of enemy ships, then the US commanders of the Pacific should also face the war crime tribunal. The mentality in this case is similar: if the Nazi invaders and occupiers could be brought before the courts to answer for crimes they committed, then the Allies' members should also have to answer for the same crimes, if they had committed them.

And as for Darth Hoth's dislike for the Soviets, you should do well to take into consideration his physical location: Sweden was MUCH closer to the Soviet Union than most of the Allies were at any point during the war. For many Finns, for example (and I hesitantly suppose that this might apply to Swedes as well), Soviets are, in the grand scheme of things, no better than the Nazis were.

As to Lithuania's situation... Yes, I've heard some grim reports over the years about them. Sadly, this doesn't come off as a great surprise, all things considered.

And Lord Woodlouse: it's a safe bet to say that those Russians who profess Neo-Nazi ideology ignore the tenets of the national socialism that would call for their enslavement and/or extermination. Some might not even realize that this was an actual goal of the Third Reich (idiots tend to gloss over the harsh lessons that history has provided).
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Re: Lithuania must stand up to anti-Semitism [Op/Ed]

Post by Fingolfin_Noldor »

Tiriol wrote:And as for Darth Hoth's dislike for the Soviets, you should do well to take into consideration his physical location: Sweden was MUCH closer to the Soviet Union than most of the Allies were at any point during the war. For many Finns, for example (and I hesitantly suppose that this might apply to Swedes as well), Soviets are, in the grand scheme of things, no better than the Nazis were.
This is probably more traced historically to the fact that the Swedes and the Russians were rarely the best of friends, and this dating as far back as Peter the Great. Finland just so happened to be the common battleground between both sides and was part of Sweden for a good part of the last few centuries.
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Re: Lithuania must stand up to anti-Semitism [Op/Ed]

Post by MarshalPurnell »

I had the misfortune to be assigned a roommate in college who was a white trash, quasi-Aryan Nations supporter. As I understood it, his position was that Slavs were perfectly "white" and that Hitler had been mistaken about their racial identity. This seems to represent an influential trend in thought among the "modern" white supremacist movement in the US, and I gather is more or less what the Russian national-socialist movement also believes. The idea of solidarity of the "white peoples" against other darker races, neoliberalism, and the Jews and adherence to (what they have self-termed, well before Tony Blair used the phrase) "Third Way" economic positions articulated in the 1970s has become normative, creating a "white nationalist" identity that overcomes purely national differences. Of course, there are plenty of movements that feel otherwise, but the extreme right is almost as ideologically fragmented as the extreme left.

And yeah, partisans operating in the East did commit war crimes, and not merely against German troops or active collaborators. The use of physical intimidation to coerce supplies and sanctuary from civilian populations happened, and the pursuit of revenge against collaboration could overstep rational bounds. And there was a lot of ugly inter-ethnic violence, especially in the western Ukraine where Poles and Ukrainians went at it with the general encouragement of the Germans. That said, it was sixty years ago, and it is rather dicey to just pursue Jewish partisans if they have given up on punishing the far more numerous Nazi collaborators in Lithuania.
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Re: Lithuania must stand up to anti-Semitism [Op/Ed]

Post by TheKwas »

Given the established bigotry of the Lithuanian government, does anyone believe for a second that the state has any real evidence on these individual jewish partisans for war crimes? It sounds like politically motivated bigotry to me, and it's disgusting that people here seem to think it can be defended by the ignorant assertion that "Partisans were typically nasty".

Partisans did some regrettable things, but given the context of their actions (ie, defending their entire community and ethnicity from extermination) Partisans were typically heros.
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