Bush and the "mispronouncing" of Nuclear...(RANT)

Keevan_Colton · Post by **Keevan_Colton** » 2003-02-05 09:50pm

Graeme Dice wrote:
Captain_Cyran wrote:It would take an English major two tries to properly pronounce that. Try something a little more equal in difficulty to pronounce as Nuclear.
The fact of the matter remains that to call someone stupid because of their accent is ridiculous. Call him stupid because he is, not because his accent doesn't agree with yours.

As for Saskatchewan, you have no idea how much it grates to hear people mangle it, but we don't call them stupid when they do.

I can pronounce it....but only because I like the Arrogant Worms song...."The Last Saskatchewan Pirate"

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2003-02-05 09:50pm

When I moved here, I realized everyone pronounced 'radiator' 'rad-e-a-tor', not 'raid-i-ator-'. It's driving me insane.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-02-05 10:00pm

HemlockGrey wrote:When I moved here, I realized everyone pronounced 'radiator' 'rad-e-a-tor', not 'raid-i-ator-'. It's driving me insane.

Different pronounciation of a syllable is not the same thing as simply adding one out of nowhere. Does Bushie-boy pronounce the word "clear" as "kew-lar"? When he was a teenager, did he go to the drugstore and ask for a bottle of "Cew-larisil" for his acne?

Keevan_Colton · Post by **Keevan_Colton** » 2003-02-05 11:51pm

Darth Wong wrote:
HemlockGrey wrote:When I moved here, I realized everyone pronounced 'radiator' 'rad-e-a-tor', not 'raid-i-ator-'. It's driving me insane.
Different pronounciation of a syllable is not the same thing as simply adding one out of nowhere. Does Bushie-boy pronounce the word "clear" as "kew-lar"? When he was a teenager, did he go to the drugstore and ask for a bottle of "Cew-larisil" for his acne?

Daddy and Co. would probably just buy him an entire drug store to save him the embaressment....

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-02-06 12:46pm

I think people need to understand that it's more than just an accent. If you say "nuclear" as "new" followed by "clear", you are phonetically pronouncing it based on the spelling of the word. If you say "nuclear" as "new","cue","ler", you are obviously pronouncing it based on an audible cue (ie- you heard someone else pronounce it that way, so you do the same even though it has nothing to do with the way the word is spelled) rather than the spelling of the word. In other words, it means that you hear the word, rather than reading it.

At the risk of sounding elitist, people whose vocabulary comes from reading rather than talking tend to be smarter. Shrubby is one of those people whose vocabulary obviously came from talking to the hired help in his family mansion, not from reading books. That's why it's excusable to pronounce vowels differently; the rules are inconsistent in the English language. But to arbitrarily add syllables simply means that your vocabulary does not come from books.

Nathan F · Post by **Nathan F** » 2003-02-06 01:59pm

It is an accent. Everyone in this region pronounces the word similar to that. BIG FRIGGEN DEAL! They say nu-cu-lar instead of nu-cle-ar. I am sorry that we are so much lower and dumber because of a single syllable in a word. I am sure that you have never mispronounced a word or accidentally switched a syllable around, because that would just make you dumb...

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2003-02-06 02:19pm

NF_Utvol wrote:It is an accent. Everyone in this region pronounces the word similar to that. BIG FRIGGEN DEAL! They say nu-cu-lar instead of nu-cle-ar. I am sorry that we are so much lower and dumber because of a single syllable in a word. I am sure that you have never mispronounced a word or accidentally switched a syllable around, because that would just make you dumb...

I now live in West Virginia, home of a Hick population whose main saving grace is they have the highest percentage of home ownership in the US. Those who have read and become educated say it properly. Those who haven't pronounce it Nukular. It is not an accent.

Nathan F · Post by **Nathan F** » 2003-02-06 03:16pm

I have read, and have studied, and am quite literate, yet sometimes, albeit rarely, I say Nu-cu-lar. Like I said, mispronouncing a word is not a sign of being stupid. I am sure you have mispronounced a word, as we all have. You are not perfect, nor am I. Does that make you dumb? No.

One thing that does make you look bad though is saying that anyone who mispronounces a word is illiterate, because it simply is not true. As I said, if that was true, then you would be as guilty as anyone for being dumb. The same goes for everyone.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-02-06 03:59pm

NF_Utvol wrote:I have read, and have studied, and am quite literate, yet sometimes, albeit rarely, I say Nu-cu-lar.

And why do you think that is?

Like I said, mispronouncing a word is not a sign of being stupid.

On occasion? Maybe not. But consistently, repeatedly, in a rehearsed speech which you intend to broadcast to the entire fucking nation? That is NOT an accidental mispronounciation brought on by the unfortunate luck of being exposed to bad habits as a child; that is an idiot who thinks that his folksy butchered pronounciation is the correct one.

I've lived in areas where it was quite common and acceptable to butcher all forms of grammar. The phrase "I seen you at the store on the weekend" is amazingly common in hick communities. But even in a hick community, the one fucking family that READS BOOKS knows that the correct grammar is "I saw you at the store on the weekend".

Call it a dialect if you want, but it is also fucking wrong. Same goes for "new-kew-lar". Anyone who READS the word will know how it's obviously supposed to be pronounced.

I am sure you have mispronounced a word, as we all have. You are not perfect, nor am I. Does that make you dumb? No.

It does if you do it so consistently that it's obvious you think it's the correct pronounciation. In public speeches, it indicates a cavalier disregard for proper use of the language, which is hardly surprising from a spoiled rich fucktard who invented words like "misunderestimated".

One thing that does make you look bad though is saying that anyone who mispronounces a word is illiterate, because it simply is not true. As I said, if that was true, then you would be as guilty as anyone for being dumb. The same goes for everyone.

False dilemma fallacy. Please look it up.

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2003-02-06 04:03pm

I've lived in areas where it was quite common and acceptable to butcher all forms of grammar. The phrase "I seen you at the store on the weekend" is amazingly common in hick communities. But even in a hick community, the one fucking family that READS BOOKS knows that the correct grammar is "I saw you at the store on the weekend".

Nitpick:Should that not be
"I saw you at the store during the weekend" not "on the weekened"?

Nathan F · Post by **Nathan F** » 2003-02-06 05:23pm

Alright, Mike, I see where you are coming from, and I agree, if you blatantly disregard proper grammar because you think you are speaking correctly, then, that is somewhat dumb. But mispronouncing a single word, and in a way that, in casual conversation, most people wouldn't even notice, that doesn't show a sign of a lack of intelligence.

And about the False Dillema Fallacy.

What I stated was not a fallacy, when you say that someone is stupid or done for doing a trivial act you most certainly have done before, it makes you seem as though you are taking the 'holier-than-thou self righteous' standpoint you always stand against.

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2003-02-06 06:32pm

Mr Bean wrote:
I've lived in areas where it was quite common and acceptable to butcher all forms of grammar. The phrase "I seen you at the store on the weekend" is amazingly common in hick communities. But even in a hick community, the one fucking family that READS BOOKS knows that the correct grammar is "I saw you at the store on the weekend".
Nitpick:Should that not be
"I saw you at the store during the weekend" not "on the weekened"?

Actually, I'm pretty sure that "on" is acceptable for describing dates of events. "On Friday, I'm going to ..."

Keevan_Colton · Post by **Keevan_Colton** » 2003-02-06 07:01pm

NF_Utvol wrote:Alright, Mike, I see where you are coming from, and I agree, if you blatantly disregard proper grammar because you think you are speaking correctly, then, that is somewhat dumb. But mispronouncing a single word, and in a way that, in casual conversation, most people wouldn't even notice, that doesn't show a sign of a lack of intelligence.

And about the False Dillema Fallacy.

What I stated was not a fallacy, when you say that someone is stupid or done for doing a trivial act you most certainly have done before, it makes you seem as though you are taking the 'holier-than-thou self righteous' standpoint you always stand against.

Casual conversation != Speech broadcast on national television and rebroadcast internationally....

jegs2 · Post by **jegs2** » 2003-02-06 07:36pm

The news media has been mispronouncing the word, "nuclear," for years, so it's no surprise that the mispronuciation has made it into the mainstream. While English language purists may rant and rave about it, most people realize that English is a living language and constantly subject to flux. For example, the word, "gay," once meant only, "happy," while now its meaning is forever altered. As for pronunciation, the word, "athletic" is pronounced in four syllables by a great many people, although the word has only three syllables in its proper form. So as to those who dislike Bush's pronunciation of the word, "nuclear," I don't like it either, but their are far too many other significant issues with which to be bothered rather than the mispronunciation of a commonly-mispronounced word, so get over it.

Keevan_Colton · Post by **Keevan_Colton** » 2003-02-06 07:40pm

I think it is best summed up....
Mispronouncing the word does not prove he is an idiot....its a smpytom of it....
The fact Bush is an idiot is why he mispronounces the word....and it is the least of the problems caused by his idiocy.

Malecoda · Post by **Malecoda** » 2003-02-06 07:46pm

Pablo Sanchez wrote:
As for incorrect speech, what about those english? They keep saying
"arse" when everyone knows its "ass"
That's because the English are stupid. And gay.

Oh, hey, it's Rob Wilson!

LOL!

Nathan F · Post by **Nathan F** » 2003-02-06 07:46pm

Why do you say he is an idiot? I mean, the man is smart enough to be president, that has to say something...

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-02-06 07:54pm

NF_Utvol wrote:Alright, Mike, I see where you are coming from, and I agree, if you blatantly disregard proper grammar because you think you are speaking correctly, then, that is somewhat dumb. But mispronouncing a single word, and in a way that, in casual conversation, most people wouldn't even notice, that doesn't show a sign of a lack of intelligence.

Actually, I've never known anyone who ever worked in or even near a nuclear power plant who pronounced it that way. It will grate on every single one of us.

And about the False Dillema Fallacy.

What I stated was not a fallacy, when you say that someone is stupid or done for doing a trivial act you most certainly have done before, it makes you seem as though you are taking the 'holier-than-thou self righteous' standpoint you always stand against.

No, you said that either you have perfect pronounciation of every word in your entire life or you're as bad as Bush, which is utterly ridiculous. But you're right; a better term is black/white fallacy, not false dilemma. It's still a fallacy.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-02-06 07:56pm

NF_Utvol wrote:Why do you say he is an idiot? I mean, the man is smart enough to be president, that has to say something...

You figure that his becoming president had something to do with intelligence? How so? How did he demonstrate intelligence in being born into the right family, or being the beneficiary of the most incredibly dumb-luck "victory" in voting history?

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-02-06 08:00pm

Bush is a sign of the times. Before the election, Roger Ebert editorialized on his website about how embarrassing it was to be facing the prospect of an elected president whose language skills were covering around the high school sophomore level.

He was instantly deluged with flames and complaints, most of which centred around the perception that he was an "elitist". One of his favourite comments (which he said was often repeated in these E-mails) was that Bush "talks like us". He noted that once upon a time, we believed a president should ideally be better, smarter, more educated, more intelligent, more noble, etc. than the average man. Today, we seem to be interested in a president who's "an average guy".

Tell me, if your child is dying in hospital, would you want the greatest neurosurgeon in the world to work on him? Or an "average guy?" There is something fundamentally fucked-up with a culture in which anti-elitism has reached such a fever pitch that it's considered a huge political asset to be folksy and not too bright.

Keevan_Colton · Post by **Keevan_Colton** » 2003-02-06 08:16pm

Darth Wong wrote:Bush is a sign of the times. Before the election, Roger Ebert editorialized on his website about how embarrassing it was to be facing the prospect of an elected president whose language skills were covering around the high school sophomore level.

He was instantly deluged with flames and complaints, most of which centred around the perception that he was an "elitist". One of his favourite comments (which he said was often repeated in these E-mails) was that Bush "talks like us". He noted that once upon a time, we believed a president should ideally be better, smarter, more educated, more intelligent, more noble, etc. than the average man. Today, we seem to be interested in a president who's "an average guy".

Tell me, if your child is dying in hospital, would you want the greatest neurosurgeon in the world to work on him? Or an "average guy?" There is something fundamentally fucked-up with a culture in which anti-elitism has reached such a fever pitch that it's considered a huge political asset to be folksy and not too bright.

You are damn right there Mike....I dont want to live in a house where the design was done by someone who doesnt understand load stresses or the like....or use electical outlets installed by someone that doesnt know to earth things.......or perhaps live near a nuclear power plant operated by people who cant even pronounce the name of what they do right.....the only nuclear power plant tecnichan to mispronounce it is Homer Simpsons....though he is also the guy who had a trambopoline.....

Anti-Elitisim is a rather daft notion in the first place.....Elitisim? I would more err towards the term competence....

edit:

Its far more a case of -
"I am better at this than you." which can be a measurable fact rather than "I am better than you." which is not....

Kelly Antilles · Post by **Kelly Antilles** » 2003-02-06 08:21pm

To be honest, nuclear is not that easy a word to pronounce, at least with a southern accent.

Drewcifer · Post by **Drewcifer** » 2003-02-06 08:30pm

Darth Wong wrote:...people whose vocabulary comes from reading rather than talking tend to be smarter...

OT: The other side of the coin is me. I was very well read as a child, but longstoryshort, few of my friends were. Over the years, there have been many words that I've learned what the proper pronunciations were instead of the way I said them in my head. I usually stressed the wrong syllable, or other such things. Now I read with a dictionary at hand to keep this from happening, and my circle of friends has changed considerably over the years, but every now and again something still pops up and suprises me.

Fr'instance, it was just a few years ago that I realized that voila was pronounced as vwa-la and that wala was not a word