Neocon fundies encourage flaunting of OHS regs

SLAM: debunk creationism, pseudoscience, and superstitions. Discuss logic and morality.

Moderator: Alyrium Denryle

User avatar
Surlethe
HATES GRADING
Posts: 12267
Joined: 2004-12-29 03:41pm

Neocon fundies encourage flaunting of OHS regs

Post by Surlethe »

Lusankya wrote:Oh, wait. He's a Republican. He probably does disapprove.
Bin-go. While not all Republicans disapprove, that particular school of fundamentalist, neoconservative thought does. When my wife went to Camp American as a youngster, cabins were awarded points for violating OSHA standards. The cabin with the fewest points had to clean the bathrooms at 11 pm.
A Government founded upon justice, and recognizing the equal rights of all men; claiming higher authority for existence, or sanction for its laws, that nature, reason, and the regularly ascertained will of the people; steadily refusing to put its sword and purse in the service of any religious creed or family is a standing offense to most of the Governments of the world, and to some narrow and bigoted people among ourselves.
F. Douglass
User avatar
Lusankya
ChiCom
Posts: 4163
Joined: 2002-07-13 03:04am
Location: 人间天堂
Contact:

Re: ICR pursuing valid M.Sc degrees for Creationists

Post by Lusankya »

Surlethe wrote:
Lusankya wrote:Oh, wait. He's a Republican. He probably does disapprove.
Bin-go. While not all Republicans disapprove, that particular school of fundamentalist, neoconservative thought does. When my wife went to Camp American as a youngster, cabins were awarded points for violating OSHA standards. The cabin with the fewest points had to clean the bathrooms at 11 pm.
Is that even legal? I mean, I guess the "randomly making the cleanest students do cleaning" is more dicky than illegal, but isn't there some kind of law against management or people of positions of authority encouraging people to break OHS laws?
"I would say that the above post is off-topic, except that I'm not sure what the topic of this thread is, and I don't think anybody else is sure either."
- Darth Wong
Free Durian - Last updated 27 Dec
"Why does it look like you are in China or something?" - havokeff
User avatar
Tolya
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 1729
Joined: 2003-11-17 01:03pm
Location: Poland

Re: ICR pursuing valid M.Sc degrees for Creationists

Post by Tolya »

Surlethe wrote:Bin-go. While not all Republicans disapprove, that particular school of fundamentalist, neoconservative thought does. When my wife went to Camp American as a youngster, cabins were awarded points for violating OSHA standards. The cabin with the fewest points had to clean the bathrooms at 11 pm.
What? Are you serious? You mean people were awarded for things like not-wearing-a-helmet-at-a-construction-site stuff?

So basically the more dangerous and stupid stuff you did during the day, the more points you get? What is this shit? I've heard of Camp America before, but I always thought they are religious neocon nutjobs rather than people who encourage you to physically harm yourself.

Oh and I only know what OSHA is from reading their webpage, so maybe there is something I don't know but should. Excuse me for that.
User avatar
RedImperator
Roosevelt Republican
Posts: 16465
Joined: 2002-07-11 07:59pm
Location: Delaware
Contact:

Re: ICR pursuing valid M.Sc degrees for Creationists

Post by RedImperator »

Tolya wrote:
Surlethe wrote:Oh and I only know what OSHA is from reading their webpage, so maybe there is something I don't know but should. Excuse me for that.
I've worked in the oil industry, and so has my father, and I can tell you OSHA regs can be a pain in the ass at times, but without them, a lot of people alive and healthy right now would be blind, deaf, or crippled, or dead, because sure as the sun will rise in the east tomorrow, if the refinery managers weren't afraid of OSHA, they'd cut every corner they could find and fire anyone who refused to work in unsafe conditions. Lolbertarians hate OSHA because they're the platonic ideal of government interference in private industry, and big business conservatives hate OSHA because it cuts into their profits and they don't give a shit about working people, but I'm at a loss to explain why religious conservatives would care.
Image
Any city gets what it admires, will pay for, and, ultimately, deserves…We want and deserve tin-can architecture in a tinhorn culture. And we will probably be judged not by the monuments we build but by those we have destroyed.--Ada Louise Huxtable, "Farewell to Penn Station", New York Times editorial, 30 October 1963
X-Ray Blues
Kanastrous
Sith Acolyte
Posts: 6464
Joined: 2007-09-14 11:46pm
Location: SoCal

Re: ICR pursuing valid M.Sc degrees for Creationists

Post by Kanastrous »

Maybe they object to any form of authority outside their Holy Book, and flaunting OSHA regs is a fun way to display their contempt for rules that don't originate in the Torah or Gospels.
I find myself endlessly fascinated by your career - Stark, in a fit of Nerd-Validation, November 3, 2011
User avatar
Patrick Degan
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 14847
Joined: 2002-07-15 08:06am
Location: Orleanian in exile

Re: ICR pursuing valid M.Sc degrees for Creationists

Post by Patrick Degan »

Kanastrous wrote:Maybe they object to any form of authority outside their Holy Book, and flaunting OSHA regs is a fun way to display their contempt for rules that don't originate in the Torah or Gospels.
You are not far off. Fundies consider that only God's government is legit and that the authority of man, particularly over matters of fate, life, and death, cannot take precedence.
When ballots have fairly and constitutionally decided, there can be no successful appeal back to bullets.
—Abraham Lincoln

People pray so that God won't crush them like bugs.
—Dr. Gregory House

Oil an emergency?! It's about time, Brigadier, that the leaders of this planet of yours realised that to remain dependent upon a mineral slime simply doesn't make sense.
—The Doctor "Terror Of The Zygons" (1975)
User avatar
The Spartan
Sith Marauder
Posts: 4406
Joined: 2005-03-12 05:56pm
Location: Houston

Re: ICR pursuing valid M.Sc degrees for Creationists

Post by The Spartan »

Kanastrous wrote:Maybe they object to any form of authority outside their Holy Book, and flaunting OSHA regs is a fun way to display their contempt for rules that don't originate in the Torah or Gospels.
It may go beyond that, or at least be reinforced by it. But playing loose and fast or outright ignoring safety rules is hardly unique to Texas. I recall a video I had to watch as part of my mandatory training called Remembering Charlie. The short version is that a man named Charlie recounts what happened to him because of all the safety rules he flaunted. In the end he endured months of painful burn rehabilitation, lost his wife, very nearly lost his children, one of whom attempted suicide. Not to mention the numerous reconstructive surgeries.

And for what little it's worth that camp Surlethe mentioned is not in Texas, it's in Indiana. Unfortunately, I'm pretty certain that you'll find camps like that here, though I'm not aware of any that so openly and deliberately violate OSHA.
The Gentleman from Texas abstains. Discourteously.
Image
PRFYNAFBTFC-Vice Admiral: MFS Masturbating Walrus :: Omine subtilite Odobenus rosmarus masturbari
Soy un perdedor.
"WHO POOPED IN A NORMAL ROOM?!"-Commander William T. Riker
User avatar
RedImperator
Roosevelt Republican
Posts: 16465
Joined: 2002-07-11 07:59pm
Location: Delaware
Contact:

Re: ICR pursuing valid M.Sc degrees for Creationists

Post by RedImperator »

Kanastrous wrote:Maybe they object to any form of authority outside their Holy Book, and flaunting OSHA regs is a fun way to display their contempt for rules that don't originate in the Torah or Gospels.
I don't find this hypothesis particularly convincing. It's not like fundies chronically violate parking regulations because Deuteronomy doesn't saying anything about handicapped spaces.
Image
Any city gets what it admires, will pay for, and, ultimately, deserves…We want and deserve tin-can architecture in a tinhorn culture. And we will probably be judged not by the monuments we build but by those we have destroyed.--Ada Louise Huxtable, "Farewell to Penn Station", New York Times editorial, 30 October 1963
X-Ray Blues
Kanastrous
Sith Acolyte
Posts: 6464
Joined: 2007-09-14 11:46pm
Location: SoCal

Re: ICR pursuing valid M.Sc degrees for Creationists

Post by Kanastrous »

Violating parking rules leads to having to pay tickets.

Cheerfully trashing OSHA regs somewhere private where you are unlikely to get called to account or reported is a safer form of disobedience.

I don't find it improbable that these people would flaunt their contempt for civil authority more-or-less privately, in a manner unlikely to inconvenience them with a fine.

Do you really think this crowd - in general - is actually interested in paying a price for following their precious beliefs? I sure don't.
I find myself endlessly fascinated by your career - Stark, in a fit of Nerd-Validation, November 3, 2011
Grandmaster Jogurt
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 1725
Joined: 2004-12-16 04:01am

Re: ICR pursuing valid M.Sc degrees for Creationists

Post by Grandmaster Jogurt »

It might be worth noting that flaunting OSHA regulations isn't the only "non-religious conservative" action done by the Camp American group, if their website is any indication. The topics for their essay contest include the second amendment and constitutional constructionism, they advertise a live machine gun demonstration, and have some sort of discussion on the importance of property rights. They might just be flaunting the regulations because it's a general American Conservative thing to do, not necessarily a Christian Conservative thing.
User avatar
Lagmonster
Master Control Program
Master Control Program
Posts: 7719
Joined: 2002-07-04 09:53am
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Re: Neocon fundies encourage flaunting of OHS regs

Post by Lagmonster »

Split OHS discussion from here.
Note: I'm semi-retired from the board, so if you need something, please be patient.
Junghalli
Sith Acolyte
Posts: 5001
Joined: 2004-12-21 10:06pm
Location: Berkeley, California (USA)

Re: ICR pursuing valid M.Sc degrees for Creationists

Post by Junghalli »

Patrick Degan wrote:
Kanastrous wrote:Maybe they object to any form of authority outside their Holy Book, and flaunting OSHA regs is a fun way to display their contempt for rules that don't originate in the Torah or Gospels.
You are not far off. Fundies consider that only God's government is legit and that the authority of man, particularly over matters of fate, life, and death, cannot take precedence.
I think this is probably overthinking their reasons. I suspect it has very little to do with philosophy or theology and a lot more to do with simple mindless tribalism. The lolbertarians hate OSHA, and the big business types hate OSHA, so the fundies hate OSHA too because it looks like part of being a good member of the conservative tribe.
User avatar
MarshalPurnell
Padawan Learner
Posts: 385
Joined: 2008-09-06 06:40pm
Location: Portlandia

Re: Neocon fundies encourage flaunting of OHS regs

Post by MarshalPurnell »

I suspect that's probably overthinking things as well. Religious fundamentalist conservatives rarely have a very developed political consciousness or understanding of other ideologies. They tend to divide the world into "good people" and "godless quasi-Marxists" and frankly have no idea what libertarianism is or any conception of big business as a separate interest or political actor. I would suspect while there may be some atavistic dislike of government in all its forms, on the feeling of persecution that these groups thrive on, the most important reason for having contempt for safety regulations is a mindless sense of swaggering machismo. There's an element in American culture that tends to look favorably on improvisation and amateur "know-how" over an expert knowledge and the taking of precautions, and one can probably guess which attitude the average religious fundamentalist in America associates with being a "real man."
There is the moral of all human tales;
Tis but the same rehearsal of the past,
First Freedom, and then Glory — when that fails,
Wealth, vice, corruption, — barbarism at last.

-Lord Byron, from 'Childe Harold's Pilgrimage'
User avatar
CaptainChewbacca
Browncoat Wookiee
Posts: 15746
Joined: 2003-05-06 02:36am
Location: Deep beneath Boatmurdered.

Re: Neocon fundies encourage flaunting of OHS regs

Post by CaptainChewbacca »

I just got my annual OSHA HAZWOPR (Hazardous Work Products) re-certification, and I can tell you if they didn't do what they did, I'd have probably died by now.
Stuart: The only problem is, I'm losing track of which universe I'm in.
You kinda look like Jesus. With a lightsaber.- Peregrin Toker
ImageImage
Kanastrous
Sith Acolyte
Posts: 6464
Joined: 2007-09-14 11:46pm
Location: SoCal

Re: Neocon fundies encourage flaunting of OHS regs

Post by Kanastrous »

Next time I need the right kind of character name for the right kind of story, I'm using Osha Hazwopper. Thanks, Cap'n Chewie.
I find myself endlessly fascinated by your career - Stark, in a fit of Nerd-Validation, November 3, 2011
User avatar
Darth Wong
Sith Lord
Sith Lord
Posts: 70028
Joined: 2002-07-03 12:25am
Location: Toronto, Canada
Contact:

Re: Neocon fundies encourage flaunting of OHS regs

Post by Darth Wong »

MarshalPurnell wrote:I suspect that's probably overthinking things as well. Religious fundamentalist conservatives rarely have a very developed political consciousness or understanding of other ideologies. They tend to divide the world into "good people" and "godless quasi-Marxists" and frankly have no idea what libertarianism is or any conception of big business as a separate interest or political actor. I would suspect while there may be some atavistic dislike of government in all its forms, on the feeling of persecution that these groups thrive on, the most important reason for having contempt for safety regulations is a mindless sense of swaggering machismo. There's an element in American culture that tends to look favorably on improvisation and amateur "know-how" over an expert knowledge and the taking of precautions, and one can probably guess which attitude the average religious fundamentalist in America associates with being a "real man."
Their position is not based on any thought at all. It is sheer tribalism; if you watch "King of the Hill", that seems to be the template for the way they think. There are the cool guys like Hank who hang out in the alley and drink and reminisce about the way things used to be, and then there are the weird freaks who have fancy edumacational degrees and stuff, and who are bad people because they keep trying to ruin Hank's life. The irony is that Hank himself is a completely self-absorbed bastard who neglects to raise his own son and whose friends range from narcissistic twit to sociopath, but he doesn't see it, and neither do they.
Image
"It's not evil for God to do it. Or for someone to do it at God's command."- Jonathan Boyd on baby-killing

"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC

"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness

"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.

http://www.stardestroyer.net/Mike/RantMode/Blurbs.html
User avatar
RedImperator
Roosevelt Republican
Posts: 16465
Joined: 2002-07-11 07:59pm
Location: Delaware
Contact:

Re: Neocon fundies encourage flaunting of OHS regs

Post by RedImperator »

CaptainChewbacca wrote:I just got my annual OSHA HAZWOPR (Hazardous Work Products) re-certification, and I can tell you if they didn't do what they did, I'd have probably died by now.
I can just imagine the refineries without it: "Polyethylene hazmat containers? Those are expensive! We got a shitload of steel drums, don't we? Just pour the HF in them."
Image
Any city gets what it admires, will pay for, and, ultimately, deserves…We want and deserve tin-can architecture in a tinhorn culture. And we will probably be judged not by the monuments we build but by those we have destroyed.--Ada Louise Huxtable, "Farewell to Penn Station", New York Times editorial, 30 October 1963
X-Ray Blues
TheLostVikings
Padawan Learner
Posts: 332
Joined: 2008-11-25 08:33am

Re: Neocon fundies encourage flaunting of OHS regs

Post by TheLostVikings »

RedImperator wrote:
CaptainChewbacca wrote:I just got my annual OSHA HAZWOPR (Hazardous Work Products) re-certification, and I can tell you if they didn't do what they did, I'd have probably died by now.
I can just imagine the refineries without it: "Polyethylene hazmat containers? Those are expensive! We got a shitload of steel drums, don't we? Just pour the HF in them."
Reminds me of a real accident that happened at a lab where my friend works.

Some idiot though the plastic containers looked too flimsy, so he decided to use a sturdy metal bucket instead...
User avatar
TithonusSyndrome
Sith Devotee
Posts: 2569
Joined: 2006-10-10 08:15pm
Location: The Money Store

Re: Neocon fundies encourage flaunting of OHS regs

Post by TithonusSyndrome »

Darth Wong wrote:The irony is that Hank himself is a completely self-absorbed bastard who neglects to raise his own son and whose friends range from narcissistic twit to sociopath, but he doesn't see it, and neither do they.
Hank definitely sees that something "ain't right" about them, but the fact that he repeatedly bails them out and they all go on miserably ever after being utter losers is supposed to be some kind of a paean to friendship and community, when in fact it's just plain-old enabling. That's another problem that carries over to real life from the show.
Image
User avatar
Zixinus
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 6663
Joined: 2007-06-19 12:48pm
Location: In Seth the Blitzspear
Contact:

Re: Neocon fundies encourage flaunting of OHS regs

Post by Zixinus »

The joke about conservatives, natural selection and laughing at OHS is yet to be made.

Seriously, I can understand creationism on some level, but hating safety regulations? I cannot believe that this level of retardation is not intentional.

Say, a guy's hand gets ripped off because there was not proper warning or training to prevent the accident. What insane logic does this not justify OHS or something similar?
Credo!
Chat with me on Skype if you want to talk about writing, ideas or if you want a test-reader! PM for address.
User avatar
Pulp Hero
Jedi Master
Posts: 1085
Joined: 2006-04-21 11:13pm
Location: Planet P. Its a bug planet.

Re: Neocon fundies encourage flaunting of OHS regs

Post by Pulp Hero »

Zixinus wrote:Say, a guy's hand gets ripped off because there was not proper warning or training to prevent the accident. What insane logic does this not justify OHS or something similar?
It was his own fault. And it is better to live life as free man than have to do everything those socialists in Washington tell you.
I can never love you because I'm just thirty squirrels in a mansuit."

"Ah, good ol' Popeye. Punching ghosts until they explode."[/b]-Internet Webguy

"It was cut because an Army Ordnance panel determined that a weapon that kills an enemy soldier 10 times before he hits the ground was a waste of resources, so they scaled it back to only kill him 3 times."-Anon, on the cancellation of the Army's multi-kill vehicle.
User avatar
Zixinus
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 6663
Joined: 2007-06-19 12:48pm
Location: In Seth the Blitzspear
Contact:

Re: Neocon fundies encourage flaunting of OHS regs

Post by Zixinus »

It was his own fault. And it is better to live life as free man than have to do everything those socialists in Washington tell you.
It's his own fault that the employer didn't either properly train the kid or provide him with proper warnings about what he's doing? How is having an federal-level standardization on safety socialist? How is he free with half an arm missing? How is he less free by having to follow rules that are there for his safety?

Acknowledgements:
1. I don't know the details of the kid's case, just that he got caught in the factory line and got his arm ripped off without the employer giving a shit.
2. I know Pulp Hero isn't stating his own opinion. I'm curious about his answer regardless.
Credo!
Chat with me on Skype if you want to talk about writing, ideas or if you want a test-reader! PM for address.
Junghalli
Sith Acolyte
Posts: 5001
Joined: 2004-12-21 10:06pm
Location: Berkeley, California (USA)

Re: Neocon fundies encourage flaunting of OHS regs

Post by Junghalli »

Pulp Hero wrote:It was his own fault. And it is better to live life as free man than have to do everything those socialists in Washington tell you.
The scary thing is that really is exactly how these kind of people think.
User avatar
Broomstick
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 28822
Joined: 2004-01-02 07:04pm
Location: Industrial armpit of the US Midwest

Re: Neocon fundies encourage flaunting of OHS regs

Post by Broomstick »

Zixinus wrote:It was his own fault. And it is better to live life as free man than have to do everything those socialists in Washington tell you.
^ I'm kinda hoping that was sarcasm, but people really should make it clear when it is.
It's his own fault that the employer didn't either properly train the kid or provide him with proper warnings about what he's doing?
Back when that accident occurred none of the above were required and in fact injured workers could have their pay docked or be brought to court for damaging the equipment. So much for the good old days.... :roll:
How is having an federal-level standardization on safety socialist?
Believe it or not, there are folks who believe ANY Federal regulation is "socialist".
How is he free with half an arm missing? How is he less free by having to follow rules that are there for his safety?
It was actually pretty much his whole arm, and the tools who claim that shit are invariably those who benefit from the pain of others.

That sort of maiming used to be all too common in the 19th Century.
A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. Leonard Nimoy.

Now I did a job. I got nothing but trouble since I did it, not to mention more than a few unkind words as regard to my character so let me make this abundantly clear. I do the job. And then I get paid.- Malcolm Reynolds, Captain of Serenity, which sums up my feelings regarding the lawsuit discussed here.

If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich. - John F. Kennedy

Sam Vimes Theory of Economic Injustice
Junghalli
Sith Acolyte
Posts: 5001
Joined: 2004-12-21 10:06pm
Location: Berkeley, California (USA)

Re: Neocon fundies encourage flaunting of OHS regs

Post by Junghalli »

Broomstick wrote:It was actually pretty much his whole arm, and the tools who claim that shit are invariably those who benefit from the pain of others.
I'm not so sure about that myself. If the only lolbertarian tools around were the high-level white collar types who actually benefited from lolbertarian social policies I suspect the movement would be a lot less strong than it is. One of the greatest tricks the lolbertarian movement ever pulled was to convince tons of people to basically sympathize more with the economic interests of the wealthy than their own.
Post Reply