Civilization of One

[Darth Raptor]

Given a single adult human placed in the most hospitable region of a completely uninhabited but otherwise Earth-like planet, what kind of "civilization" could this person create, and what is a reasonable time frame for it to arise? In all of the following scenarios, assume that:

1): The person in question is, for whatever reason, immune to all diseases, does not age, and will not have any accidents. IOW, so long as the person's physical needs are met, he or she will live indefinitely. Mental health in the face of absolute solitude is ensured by Quantum.

2): The planet in question has no dangerous predators or megafauna to speak of. Poisonous plants/animals are covered under the "diseases and accidents" clause. The planet has all the natural resources of Earth, but the threat of natural disasters is handwaved away.

First Scenario: Citizen Prime is already unimaginably ancient, and has somehow mastered the sum total of human science, technology and knowledge in general. He or she is still completely naked and alone.

Second Scenario: Citizen Prime is still a genius, but possesses no practical skills beyond those necessary for a hunter-gatherer subsistence lifestyle and the scientific method. He or she will not subscribe to superstitious mysticism and will be compelled to create as much of a modern civilization as possible.

Rules: Citizen Prime is immune to accidental and random death and dismemberment. He or she is not invulnerable, and cannot, say, swim to the bottom of the ocean. Robots are allowed (insofar as they are possible according to our current understanding). Clones are not.

[Kanastrous]

Since the root of civilization is civitas suggesting community or group, I don't really see how anything you do with one individual can qualify as civilization. Unless your lone person can reproduce via parthenogenesis I think he's going to be very under-staffed.

[Darth Raptor]

Yes, I know, but I failed to think of a more appropriate word for "scientific, industrial and technological development.". IOW, how far can one person get on their own? The first scenario focuses on the problems of logistics and labor, while the second focuses on problems of research and development when it's a completely solo operation.

[Kanastrous]

Sorry, what I meant to suggest is that your civ-of-one is basically pursuing a hermitage, according to one of the rules-sets you laid down in the OP.

[Singular Intellect]

Loneliness will drive him nuts, eventually, or suicidal/catatonic.

Ahem.

Mental health in the face of absolute solitude is ensured by Quantum.

As to my take on it? As others mentioned, he would simply lack the manpower to do anything truly productive other than stay alive, even if in a reasonable dwelling and having some stuff beyond what you might expect for a single individual to develope.

[Tahlan]

One man does not a civilization make. First, too busy harvesting and hunting for food and water. Second, too busy with shelter and clothing. However, given enough time (tens of thousands of years) he can make incremental and lasting improvements, then eventually he will improve his situation, so that at some point he can begin to develop technology. But I think "civilization" is too much to ask of one mere mortal.

[Samuel]

One man does not a civilization make. First, too busy harvesting and hunting for food and water. Second, too busy with shelter and clothing. However, given enough time (tens of thousands of years) he can make incremental and lasting improvements, then eventually he will improve his situation, so that at some point he can begin to develop technology. But I think "civilization" is too much to ask of one mere mortal.

Hunter gatherers don't take too much time to find food or shelter. They have ALOT of free time

[General Zod]

One man does not a civilization make. First, too busy harvesting and hunting for food and water. Second, too busy with shelter and clothing. However, given enough time (tens of thousands of years) he can make incremental and lasting improvements, then eventually he will improve his situation, so that at some point he can begin to develop technology. But I think "civilization" is too much to ask of one mere mortal.

Hunter gatherers don't take too much time to find food or shelter. They have ALOT of free time

Uhm, what? Hunter gatherers have to spend most of their time tracking, killing and cleaning game. That can involve several days of wasted effort if not more depending on how much available game you have in any given region. Especially when there's no easy method of preserving the catches.

[Samuel]

One man does not a civilization make. First, too busy harvesting and hunting for food and water. Second, too busy with shelter and clothing. However, given enough time (tens of thousands of years) he can make incremental and lasting improvements, then eventually he will improve his situation, so that at some point he can begin to develop technology. But I think "civilization" is too much to ask of one mere mortal.

Hunter gatherers don't take too much time to find food or shelter. They have ALOT of free time

Uhm, what? Hunter gatherers have to spend most of their time tracking, killing and cleaning game. That can involve several days of wasted effort if not more depending on how much available game you have in any given region. Especially when there's no easy method of preserving the catches.

For starters, the majority of the food would come from gathering. Hunter-gathers traditionally had extremely good work hours...

Finally found a good source!
http://www.eco-action.org/dt/affluent.html

Finally, being the only human around, the local animals will not be afraid of him, making hunting alot easier.

[Junghalli]

I could see him managing to set himself up in Robinson Crusoe like comfort, but I suspect trying to create advanced technology on his own would stretch the logistical capabilities of a single person past the breaking point.

[Steel]

How the fuck did this happen?

I was just gearing up to post this topic! What prompted you to post this? I think for me the catalyst was a 2000AD short story where a character annoys an omniscient being and is trapped in a pocked dimension where he is told to solve the rubix cube to be released. He cant find it because hes standing on it and its hundreds of metres wide. Theres then another story published years later which revisits him and tens of thousands of years have passed, but hes built a massive crane to mainpulate the cube. Although I'm not sure what jogged my memory of that, as it has been at least 10 years since I read it.

Back on topic, I'd say that a large part of what limits our immortal is whether or not they have the capacity to make metal items. Mining ore and coal etc should be ok, as you have infinite time, and then he has to store them for the (years) till your 1 man has enough to get a good bit of work done. I think that it should certainly be possible to get to at least a medieval level of technology. I dont believe the fact that our person has to gather food would impact the maximum level our person could reach, more the rate at which they get there. What are the chances of our person being able to domesticate some animals to drive pumps/machinery etc?

What are the goals of our person? In my scenario I placed the 'win' as being able to fly the person to a planet in the same orbit on the opposite side of the sun. Quite a long shot, but if they reached that then its certain they would have been as technologically advanced as can be. Also as I had the subject being totally invulnerable food and failed rocket launches wouldnt be as much of an issue...

[Knife]

Hmm, with the rules you have, you can imagine him getting game and being good on food for a day or three, that gives him plenty of time for trial and error when it comes to mud brick and various other types of building material as well as actual design for a hut, house, building. Trial and error for an idividual not worried about predators, old age and disease will get him far.

But far as in efficiency of simple technology not an actual increase of technology since one man can't have much in the way of industry. Who ever said Robin Crusoe had it about right, simple concepts that through trial and error made the very best they can be.

[Darth Raptor]

What prompted you to post this?

It was a short story idea I had wherein a tyrant and war criminal is captured by the Good Guys and banished to an uninhabited planet in a quarantined region of space. Apparently, the universe is safe after all.

[Solauren]

In theory, eventually, the guy COULD build up to the level of technology he was used to.

However, we are talking one hell of a development time here. I mean, way, way longer then the civilization he came from took.

By the time he got off-world, his source civilization might be long gone, or so far advanced, the defense systems on a tricylce would be a major threat to him

[Singular Intellect]

In theory, eventually, the guy COULD build up to the level of technology he was used to.

Explain how, so the rest of us can use your theory as a punching bag for logic.

[Lord of the Abyss]

In theory, eventually, the guy COULD build up to the level of technology he was used to.

Destructionator XIII already pointed out why he can't.

But, the amount of stuff he can build will be limited by maintenance costs. While he is building factory #2, the weather and such is damaging factory #1. While he is fixing factory #1, factory #2 is failing.

While mining iron to build tool A, tool B is rusting away.

And so on. He'd probably want to build android assistants to mitigate this, but he'd never be able to get anywhere near that far.

Unless he also has access to some ubermaterial that can be shaped without advanced tools yet never wears out, anything he makes will erode out from under him too fast for him to advance.

[Solauren]

It would depend entirely on how quickly he was able to do things, and a few other factors.

I admit, it's not likely, but it is possible.

We have materials now-a-days that can survive for long periods of time in rather bad weather conditions. If he could make those quickly, that would give him some leeway.

However, the best approach would be to gather the raw materials needed (time consuming in of itself), and take them to a location that was free of damaging weather conditions. (i.e a desert or near-desert environment).

There, the effects of the elements are limited. No rain, means little water damage. (Some condensation damage is inevitable)

Finding such a location could take him hundreds of years. Gathering resources should take hundreds more.

It's pretty long odds of him accomplishing it.

He'd have to do this will avoiding serious injury, predators, and adverse weather conditions. Nothing kills you faster then a forest fire.

I'd be amazed if he was able to do it, but it's not impossible.

It's just bloody unlikely.


If the civilization in this scenario was smart, they'd drop him off somewhere that was lacking in a few key elements (or at least easy access to them). Make it so he can't get to Iron or Copper, and he's boned.

[Starglider]

A scenario like this occurs twice in Vernor Vinge's 'Marooned in Realtime'; a transhuman woman and then later a transhuman man are left stranded on an uninhabited far future earth. The woman slowly creates a shaped forest that forms a sign big enough to be read from orbit. The man tries to selectively evolve apes into sentient companions (over the span of a few thousand years). Both endeavours fail due to accident shortly before success.

[Sky Captain]

So it seems it`s nearly impossible for one man to develop technology past the medieval levels because of logistical reasons. Then what would be the minimum amount of people needed to develop advanced technology? Let`s say a group of immortal (barring serious accidents) people are dropped of on an Earthlike planet without any equipment and the goal is to get three man to the Moon and back within a few hundred years. How large such a group should be to realistically do that?

[Solauren]

So it seems it`s nearly impossible for one man to develop technology past the medieval levels because of logistical reasons. Then what would be the minimum amount of people needed to develop advanced technology? Let`s say a group of immortal (barring serious accidents) people are dropped of on an Earthlike planet without any equipment and the goal is to get three man to the Moon and back within a few hundred years. How large such a group should be to realistically do that?

In the time frame you're specifiying? Probably several hundred thousand.

The infrastructure needed to do that on this world is called 'The United States of America + it's allies, 1960's'

[Surlethe]

Split some spam posts.

[Tahlan]

Hunter gatherers don't take too much time to find food or shelter. They have ALOT of free time

Uhm, what? Hunter gatherers have to spend most of their time tracking, killing and cleaning game. That can involve several days of wasted effort if not more depending on how much available game you have in any given region. Especially when there's no easy method of preserving the catches.

For starters, the majority of the food would come from gathering. Hunter-gathers traditionally had extremely good work hours...

Finally found a good source! http://www.eco-action.org/dt/affluent.html

First: the source you cited proclaims: "This website has not been updated for some years...." It is admittedly out of date and hence its data is suspect.

Second: The article you cite as evidence seems to be more an accusation against affluence (in modern times) than an article positing the idea that hunter/gatherers had it easy.

[Cykeisme]

What kind of numbers of these immortal, sterile, invulnerable Citizens will be needed to achieve spaceflight? Assuming there is no time limit whatsoever.

Let's assume that they are not lazy. They don't have superhuman willpower and dedication, but will average six to ten hours per day for however many years it takes.

I imagine having, say, ten people makes virtually no difference. What about a hundred, or a thousand, or ten thousand?
What are the stages of development of supporting technologies on the way there, and which will be the most headcount intensive?

EDIT: For simplicity, lets say they're Darth Raptor's Type One Citizens, who have knowledge of the sum total of present-day human knowledge.
I believe that using Type Two Citizens will either simply vastly increase the amount of time needed to do research and development at every developmental stage, or make it impossible outright.. there's too many factors, too unpredictable, so we'll go for the ones who know everything.

[TheKwas]

First: the source you cited proclaims: "This website has not been updated for some years...." It is admittedly out of date and hence its data is suspect.

Second: The article you cite as evidence seems to be more an accusation against affluence (in modern times) than an article positing the idea that hunter/gatherers had it easy.

As an alternative source you can find "The Ju/'hoansi" by Richard B. Lee. It's considered the standard anthropological work on the Ju/'hoansi while they were still Hunter/Gathers and he makes the estimate that a typical worker will spend 20 hours a week on 'work' (providing food for the community), and that included all cooking and weapon/cloth making. The rest of the time the Ju/'hoansi typically socialized.

Of course, this alone doesn't prove that all hunter-gatherer societies had the same sort of working conditions, but when you consider that the Ju/'hoansi lived in the middle of the Kalahari desert there's very little reason to believe that they would have it easier than the typical H-G society. Not to mention I'm confident that similar studies of other H-G societies came to similar conlcusions.

[TheKwas]

Actually, I just noticed that Richard Lee is referenced in the original article. Information like that doesn't really 'go out of date'.