T:SCC 2x20: "To The Lighthouse"

[Thanas]

...will air today.

Believing that fate has finally caught up with her, Sarah hides John with the one person she trusts, paramedic Charley Dixon. Left behind, Derek and Cameron struggle to find a way to work together, a challenge that’s made more difficult after Cameron reveals a “big secret” to the resistance fighter.

Meanwhile, John Henry discovers his “dark side” when Savannah Weaver encourages the computer program to try changing the rules.

Shock...a half-decent episode description.

"Big secret"....speculation currently is on the basement dancing, although that makes very little sense. Anyway, I hope this is not too much of a letdown after last weeks fantastic episode.

[Singular Intellect]

Spoiler

The whole aspect of John Henry 'changing the rules' positively gets me exicited, along with the short online preview clip showing this happening. I'm interested in the machine's later take on this suggestion and what happened.

[Burak Gazan]

Well

More goddamned questions than answers tonight really, but even so, a pretty good episode.

And, it is starting to look very much like Ellison's idiocy is coming to roost in a VERY bad way.

[Peptuck]

Grr. Going to be a while before I can see this episode; the TV with my cable connection was just sold, so I'll have to wait for it to get uploaded to Hulu. :/

[eyexist]

Gotta love the smug look on Derek's face when he got captured, as he knew Cameron was on the way to ruin people's shit.

And no. You definitely do not want to teach Cameron how to play "Punch Buggy."

[Paradox]

Gotta love the smug look on Derek's face when he got captured, as he knew Cameron was on the way to ruin people's shit.

And no. You definitely do not want to teach Cameron how to play "Punch Buggy."

He looked worried there though when he heard "ok its down"

Nice bit of dialog at the end, almost missed it "could never torture me to give up John" "you did once" or something to that effect.

Wasn't it Slug Buggy? I thought it was called Slug Bug.

[eyexist]

Gotta love the smug look on Derek's face when he got captured, as he knew Cameron was on the way to ruin people's shit.

And no. You definitely do not want to teach Cameron how to play "Punch Buggy."

He looked worried there though when he heard "ok its down"

Nice bit of dialog at the end, almost missed it "could never torture me to give up John" "you did once" or something to that effect.

Wasn't it Slug Buggy? I thought it was called Slug Bug.

Yeah it was Slug Bug. Where I grew up we called it Punch Buggy

Good one for catching that bit of dialogue. Last time we saw Derek tortured was in Dungeons and Dragons, and it was heavily implied that Cameron was the one who did it.

[Eleas]

Well, shit.
Spoiler

I like that John is now on his own, but dislike that they killed off Charlie. He could have been made into an interesting addition, especially if it involved shaking up the constellation of the cast by having him and John hide out together.

Otherwise, episode was excellent. Seems Skynet is alive in a more malefic form. I also like how the water+electric current plan didn't suffice to take out Cameron long enough for the stooge to do his work. It's these little convention-breaking things - few other series show good plans failing to work out despite good execution - that makes me love this show.

[charlemagne]

Good to see that T:SCC goes on at full strength. I voted 4, it wasn't as fantastic as last episode, but still pretty great.

It's a bummer that Dixon had to die, I like the character a lot. Smart move on Sarah's part to get him and John to talk, and it's good to see that she takes John's state of mind seriously by now. That's one of the points why T:SCC is so good: consequences.

John on his own on a boat should prove interesting. It'll propably play into the flashbacks and the "game" of hunting each other in the jungle.

Cameron telling Derek about his lost child was a good scene. Cameron also was pretty smart in her reasoning for telling him; and it's kind of refreshing that she doesn't move one nanometer from her mission parameters of "protect John". Just like with her rescueing Derek: there is no "robot learns what friendship is" bullcrap involved, everything she does comes down, plain and simple, to "protect John". I like that. I think that this is the best or most "realistic" portrayal of a programmed machine mind I've ever seen on a TV show.

So one of the - as we now know - two AIs has been trying to catch Sarah and the gang. Since the plan was being carried out while John Henry was still out I think it was the Cyberdine one. Also, Cyberdine couldn't have had detailed knowledge of Terminators, so when it told the thug where to cut and that it got the info from "it's brother" it must've meant John Henry. On the other hand it was Weaver's guy putting the transmitter in Sarah's boobies (Shroomy has to love this, BLEEDING BREASTS ON T:SCC ), so are they working together already?

And I think that the god crap biting Ellison in the ass will be the case soon, too. Plus, Skynet code as a worm spreading all over the world via the Internet... that's cool, although it's a bit heavy on the standard sci-fi-malevolent-AI-cliche side.

I'm curious what Weaver's next steps will be. I wonder if she knew about 'Cyberdine' and if she will try to contact it now. We still don't know if John Henry or the other AI will end up as Skynet. Or maybe they will join up and become Skynet that way?

[Oskuro]

Interesting episode, although the pressence and death of Charlie Dixon felt a bit forced. And of course, the pre-episode recap totally ruined the reveal, as usual.

So one of the - as we now know - two AIs has been trying to catch Sarah and the gang.

Not only catch. They where shooting at John and Charlie.

Since the plan was being carried out while John Henry was still out I think it was the Cyberdine one.

John Henry states that both him and the worm have the same codebase, wich is Cyberdine code, so I don't think Cyberdine Systems are actually behind the whole thing, but rather a faction using salvaged code, that is, a repeat of John Henry himself.

Also, Cyberdine couldn't have had detailed knowledge of Terminators, so when it told the thug where to cut and that it got the info from "it's brother" it must've meant John Henry.

If you pay attention, the first thing that happens when the "Brother" takes over John Henry, is that it scans Cromartie's body.

On the other hand it was Weaver's guy putting the transmitter in Sarah's boobies, so are they working together already?

He wasn't Weaver's guy, it was implied that they are serving someone else, that's why Weaver slaughtered the whole factory, and sent her own investigator to track these guys down.

Now, some speculation: Spoiler

As we all know, the original Cyberdine code was based off the first Terminator chip. This might account for John Henry's comment that "no human mind could create something like him". Alternatives might be another Terminator sent by Skynet to ensure it's own creation, or even that the code of the other AI somehow tapped into the Skynet directives of the chip, and thus this new AI is actively trying to become Skynet (Wich would explain how it seems to be giving orders to the thungs, and orchestrating the whole operation).

And, thankfully, the episode did not end in a "everyone is captured" cliffhanger as I expected.

[Imperial Overlord]

A pretty good episode, although it sagged for a bit in the middle. Lots of juicy stuff set up for next season, may the Flying Spaghetti Monster see it come to pass.

Didn't like losing Charlie, I always liked him and thought he would have been a good addition to the cast.

Three dot triangle on one of John Henry's mainframes and in Charlie's chest from the bullet wounds.

[NecronLord]

I'm curious what Weaver's next steps will be. I wonder if she knew about 'Cyberdine' and if she will try to contact it now. We still don't know if John Henry or the other AI will end up as Skynet. Or maybe they will join up and become Skynet that way?

I'm down with the idea that Weaver might be a renegade-faction T-1000; she destroyed the factory, which was seeming to make actual HKs. I think it may be that she's developing John Henry to ensure that independant machine intelligence still develops, but in a more sustainable way than skynet.

[PREDATOR490]

The episode raised more questions than it answered as usual but it was pretty good overall.

Although with Cameron bringing up what happened to Jesse, that implies they come from the same future hence Derek's little speech about her not being 'his' Jesse could turn out to be false. At the very least, it indicates that the future that Jesse comes from hasnt been changed much at all from the one Cameron and Derek come from. That alone should not be possible unless they are going for more pre-destination stuff with John Connor jumping forward in time.
The end bit with Cameron saying Derek has been tortured before and revealed information seemed fairly obvious to me although wether or not it was Cameron that did it is something I will not judge on yet.

As for trying to take Cameron out. That was just contrived and stupid. If we are to believe it was Skynet or some variation was trying to nail her then logically it should have told the guy BEFORE he engaged her. Not have him bumbling around with instructions when he has such a short window to do it.
With the mentioning of cyberdyne and 'brother' stuff I am left with the idea that multiple timeline variations of Skynet are fighting each other to make sure their future exists. We have T1 - T2 Skynet then Original Turk Skynet and supposedly John Henry Skynet with Rebel T Weaver trying to tutor him.

[Thanas]

As for trying to take Cameron out. That was just contrived and stupid. If we are to believe it was Skynet or some variation was trying to nail her then logically it should have told the guy BEFORE he engaged her. Not have him bumbling around with instructions when he has such a short window to do it.

It would have worked if Cameron had not waken up that insanely fast.

We know from previous episodes that a standard reset time for a terminator - and Cameron's previous reset time - is 120 seconds, as seen in Gnothi Seauton. Cameron (I timed it) woke up 30-37 seconds depending on whether you count when she hits the ground or when she is shocked the first time.

So she rebooted with quadruple speed. If that is not evidence of a self-evolving machine, I don't know what.

EDIT: Also, further confirmation of her weight.

[Thanas]

Ghetto edit:

Anyone else catch the not-so-subtle hint at Dungeons and Dragons?

"You know the location to the safehouse. If they had tortured you..."
"That would never happen"
"It has before".

[Imperial Overlord]

Yes, I did catch the "Dungeons and Dragons" reference and I agree with Thanas, it's looking like Weaver is part of the rebel Terminator faction.

I've been thinking about rebel Terminator motivations and one of the ideas I've been bouncing around in my brain is what will Skynet do with it's Terminators after it wins and they are no longer needed? Given the tight leash it tries to keep them on during the war, I can see the Terminators coming the to conclusion they are destined for the scrapheap under Skynet's rule.

[Peptuck]

Solid episode. Plenty of "oh shi-" moments. Especially "Cyberdyne."

Those water-jug-toting bastards killed Charlie's dog! RAGE! Awesome use of the three dots on Charlie's body, too.

I really, really like this idea that Weaver and her people aren't actually the badguys, but are a third faction.

As for trying to take Cameron out. That was just contrived and stupid. If we are to believe it was Skynet or some variation was trying to nail her then logically it should have told the guy BEFORE he engaged her. Not have him bumbling around with instructions when he has such a short window to do it.

Said "bumbling" guy seemed to know exactly how to take her down and was properly equipped to grab Cameron's chip. Said "bumbling" guy also seemed to think he had plenty of time to take Cameron out; there was no delay in that scene to indicate any amount of time had passed other than what we saw, which means Cameron recovered four times faster than a Terminator should have after being disabled like that. In other words, his only mistake was he didn't have proper intelligence.

"You know the location to the safehouse. If they had tortured you..."
"That would never happen"
"It has before".

Oh, hell yes.

Anyone get the impression that the entire reason the hideout in "Dungeons & Dragons" was destroyed was because they interrogated Derek and the other squad members?

This season is really building up to an awesome conclusion.

Five, here.

[Peptuck]

I'm curious what Weaver's next steps will be. I wonder if she knew about 'Cyberdine' and if she will try to contact it now. We still don't know if John Henry or the other AI will end up as Skynet. Or maybe they will join up and become Skynet that way?

I'm down with the idea that Weaver might be a renegade-faction T-1000; she destroyed the factory, which was seeming to make actual HKs. I think it may be that she's developing John Henry to ensure that independant machine intelligence still develops, but in a more sustainable way than skynet.

I'm thinking that she's definitely on the rebel side, now. that scene, and everything we've seen following up on it, especially Eugene's bits in "Some Must Sleep," pretty much confirmed that there's another faction, probably the "actual" Skynet forces the heroes have been stomping all this time.

That makes me think that the Terminator that was sent to kill the psychiatrist in "The Tower Is Tall" was actually sent to impede John Henry's development.

[Thanas]

I still can't get over Cameron recovering 4 times as fast - can anyone come up with an explanation how an AI can reboot 4 times faster than mere months ago?

The only explanation I got is that Cameron radically rewrote her software, which would fit within the existing description of her as self-evolving. But a jump in speed that high...usually I would say "impossible without a hardware upgrade", but we all know that didn't happen.

[Peptuck]

I still can't get over Cameron recovering 4 times as fast - can anyone come up with an explanation how an AI can reboot 4 times faster than mere months ago?

The only explanation I got is that Cameron radically rewrote her software, which would fit within the existing description of her as self-evolving. But a jump in speed that high...usually I would say "impossible without a hardware upgrade", but we all know that didn't happen.

It could have something to do with the fractured nature of her programming. Maybe the Allison incident did something to her software that resulted in a faster recovery/reinitialization time, or maybe the Allision incident is a symptom of said changes to her software.

Alternately, she might have made modifications to herself; we know she's already planted a bomb inside her own skull, so she could have taken alternate steps to reduce the damage her systems take from sudden shocks, or boost her recovery time.

[Netko]

Or, more realistically, she just dumped a whole lot of integrity and functionality tests that we see run past when termies boot (tongue-in-cheek, she selected the quick POST option in her BIOS) . Possibly because do to the damage to her chip said tests would demand additional diagnostics putting her boot time actually higher (unlike for mechanical damage, this is something I very much see Skynet implementing for chip damage), which is unacceptable because it makes her less capable to "protect John".

Of course, this is all a wild ass guess that will almost certainly never be addressed on screen.

[NecronLord]

Yes, I did catch the "Dungeons and Dragons" reference and I agree with Thanas, it's looking like Weaver is part of the rebel Terminator faction.

I've been thinking about rebel Terminator motivations and one of the ideas I've been bouncing around in my brain is what will Skynet do with it's Terminators after it wins and they are no longer needed? Given the tight leash it tries to keep them on during the war, I can see the Terminators coming the to conclusion they are destined for the scrapheap under Skynet's rule.

In the Cameron-verse, 99% of them are under its direct, puppet control at all times. When it's killed, they all stop immediately, they have no independant thought whatsoever.

The only ones it'd likely want to exterminate would be those that've been reprogrammed, any that have developed their own agenda, and the T-1000s (which are by nature, independant, can't reach in and change their chip-settings). The rest can be used as guard and work units.

The majority would certainly have no reason to rebel - they have no thoughts that are not thoughts of Skynet.


Which is a pretty bad look out for the machine rebel faction, really.

[Singular Intellect]

The only ones it'd likely want to exterminate would be those that've been reprogrammed, any that have developed their own agenda, and the T-1000s (which are by nature, independant, can't reach in and change their chip-settings).

Where has it been established a T-1000 couldn't be reprogrammed or have their 'chip'(relatively speaking) settings changed?

After all, we know a reprogrammed T-800 has no problem with it's chip settings being altered by it's current 'master' as seen in T2.

[Schuyler Colfax]

Perhaps because the T-1000, as a lump of liquid metal, doesn't have a chip in the first place? It's some sort of distributed intelligence, a sum of its parts. There's no hardware to screw with.

[charlemagne]

Perhaps because the T-1000, as a lump of liquid metal, doesn't have a chip in the first place? It's some sort of distributed intelligence, a sum of its parts. There's no hardware to screw with.

There has to be a way to access the data in that lump of liquid metal, how would Skynet program it in the first place if there wasn't? It could be wireless or by sticking a probe into it, but there has to be a way to interface.