T:SCC 2x20: "To The Lighthouse"

[Imperial Overlord]

In the Cameron-verse, 99% of them are under its direct, puppet control at all times. When it's killed, they all stop immediately, they have no independant thought whatsoever.

I had forgotten about those unfilmed scenes. That pretty much forces any free willed machine to oppose Skynet in the name of self-preservation.

[Drooling Iguana]

So how many actors is this who've played John Connor now? Six?

[Crazy_Vasey]

Five by my count: two from T2, one from T3, one from T: SCC, and one from the upcoming Terminator film. I'm not aware of any others.

[PREDATOR490]

While Weaver has performed better than the Terminators we have seen thus far it is very doubtful she has good intentions. If this episode is suggesting the existance of multiple Skynets working against each other then Weaver could be an agent of another Skynet who is either following a mission or has went AWOL on her own agenda.
The T-1000 has been depicted as being much more advanced and intelligent than the general infiltrators and assassins sent in the past so I consider it possible Weaver might actually be going from Skynet's bitch to Queen Skynet on her own initiative.

Regardless, the scene with Cameron seemed woefully lacking in detail of what the fuck is going on as usual. She wakes up faster than she is supposed to for no reason and yet got knocked on her ass in Alpine Fields. Wether or not this is intentional or writer's fiat remains unknown but it dosent make the situation any less annoying to me without an explanation. As for this 'guy', I presume 'brother' wanted Cameron's chip for information or the body for resources. Otherwise the guy should have just been sitting there with an equivelent of Derek's Sniper Rifle to blow her head off while she was out cold.

The situation with Cameron revealing she knows about the events that occured on the Jimmy Carter really bugs me the most in this episode. It implies Jesse may infact be from the same timeline as them or that Weaver is from the same timeline as Derek and Cameron. On the one hand it makes sense since any change made pales in comparison to Connor being several years younger than he is supposed to be unless it is another pre-determined event but on the other hand, the pre-determined angle is ultimately boring and a repeat of T1 and the potential to go the way of T3.

[neoolong]

Five by my count: two from T2, one from T3, one from T: SCC, and one from the upcoming Terminator film. I'm not aware of any others.

Two in T: SCC. The main one and the younger jungle kid in flashbacks from this episode.

[NecronLord]

Where has it been established a T-1000 couldn't be reprogrammed or have their 'chip'(relatively speaking) settings changed?

T2 novellisation, I believe. Skynet fears to use the T-1000 model too much, because it cannot be controlled. I'll see if I can get you a page-reference.

Which is part of why I actually like the idea of the TX.

On the flip side, Cameron also invented the T-1,000,000, which was directly controlled by and plugged into Skynet's core as a defence device, because its volume exceeded the point at which the alloy can control itself.

Perhaps because the T-1000, as a lump of liquid metal, doesn't have a chip in the first place? It's some sort of distributed intelligence, a sum of its parts. There's no hardware to screw with.

There has to be a way to access the data in that lump of liquid metal, how would Skynet program it in the first place if there wasn't? It could be wireless or by sticking a probe into it, but there has to be a way to interface.

That's an unjustified assertion. There are a number of real life smart materials that can be imprinted once, and then not easily re-imprinted. Certainly in my school, we got to use simple examples as part of the curriculum in secondary school. I have fond memories of muscle wire.

The process of imprinting a personality on a T-1000 could well be a one-way process.


The strongest example suggesting they can be re-programmed, is that the TX was able to give her coating instructions - but instructions is a different thing from modifying its personality - it's possible her alloy coating may have been more a symbiotic creature with which she communicated, than something she could actually reprogram.

[Crazy_Vasey]

Five by my count: two from T2, one from T3, one from T: SCC, and one from the upcoming Terminator film. I'm not aware of any others.

Two in T: SCC. The main one and the younger jungle kid in flashbacks from this episode.

I can't believe I forgot the kid who was in the episode I watched yesterday. Sheesh.

[Thanas]

Regardless, the scene with Cameron seemed woefully lacking in detail of what the fuck is going on as usual. She wakes up faster than she is supposed to for no reason and yet got knocked on her ass in Alpine Fields. Wether or not this is intentional or writer's fiat remains unknown but it dosent make the situation any less annoying to me without an explanation.

Well, in Alpine Fields she took extensive damage after a protracted, hour long fight. Quite a different type of situation here.

The situation with Cameron revealing she knows about the events that occured on the Jimmy Carter really bugs me the most in this episode. It implies Jesse may infact be from the same timeline as them or that Weaver is from the same timeline as Derek and Cameron. On the one hand it makes sense since any change made pales in comparison to Connor being several years younger than he is supposed to be unless it is another pre-determined event but on the other hand, the pre-determined angle is ultimately boring and a repeat of T1 and the potential to go the way of T3.

Eh, no. There is nothing that prevents Jesse from going on the same mission with the same results in Cameron's timeline as she did in Jesse's timeline.

[PREDATOR490]

The situation with Cameron revealing she knows about the events that occured on the Jimmy Carter really bugs me the most in this episode. It implies Jesse may infact be from the same timeline as them or that Weaver is from the same timeline as Derek and Cameron. On the one hand it makes sense since any change made pales in comparison to Connor being several years younger than he is supposed to be unless it is another pre-determined event but on the other hand, the pre-determined angle is ultimately boring and a repeat of T1 and the potential to go the way of T3.

Eh, no. There is nothing that prevents Jesse from going on the same mission with the same results in Cameron's timeline as she did in Jesse's timeline.

Events happen the same in Jesse's timeline in this mission despite the fact that Derek's future evidently changed in her timeline with relation to Fischer.
He mentions Wisher and she dosent know who he is so Derek's actions caused Jesse to never meet / know Andy ?

So in the span of what, a few weeks ?, the events of Derek murdering Andy caused a change that changed Jesse's future but she never came back in Derek's future despite the motivation for her coming back remains the same. Hence, something someone has done provided her the window she never had in Derek's timeline indicating a clear change in the future and yet the two BIGGEST changes have had no noticable effect on any future.
A.K.A
1) Andy Good, the creator of the Turks was killed and the original Turk destroyed
2) John Connor jumping several years into the future with Cameron and his supposed-to-be-dead mother

That simply does not make any goddamn sense at all.
The only explanation for the original Turk being destroyed not affecting the future is that it was never going to be Skynet in the first place. Which implies that Andy Good would have built the Turk 2 ANYWAY or this could be a pre-destination paradox with the events being responsible for it's creation in the first place. Otherwise the Turk 2 is being 'tutored' by Weaver which should not have happened if Andy Good was alive. Logically, the Turk 2 would have won the chess competition and be taken into that Military Contract. Hence, if Skynet IS the Turk, it's past has been directly affected by the actions of the Connor's without any noticable effect on Jesse's timeline.
The rather tragic explanation is that the Turk ISNT Skynet and that Andy Good has been killed for no fucking reason which would fit the grim nature of TSCC rather nicely but then leaves us with the question of who the fuck IS Skynet. This episode would imply that another Skynet, perhaps even the T2 original Skynet is lurking about somehow.

As for the latter, the same is true. If Jesse's future can be changed by an event like killing Wisher then it should logically be affected even more by their temporal jump.
In which case, Jesse would be from a future where the 'current' events we are seeing have already happened up until she jumped back, hence she should come from a future with a John Connor that is several years younger than he is supposed to be, had his mother with him and had Cameron protecting him for a period of time.
With those kind of changes I find it highly doubtful Jesse's mission would happen EXACTLY the same way unless she is from the same future either or this is an entire mess of pre-destination paradox shit.

[NecronLord]

It didn't have a wafer-circuit brain to think with. It was something on a completely new level of artificial intelligence. The molecular brain acted like the rest of the thing, a liquid.

Skynet itself had hesitated before making this lethal weapon. There were unpredictability factors related to the thing's longevity and ability to process commands without interpolating its own priorities. It was so volatile a construct, that only in the last throes of defeat, when the plug was about to be pulled, had Skynet sent the terminators through time to change the outcome of the war. And only in the last microsecond before shutdown, had the hypercomputer sent the T-1000

Doesn't actually say it can't be reprogrammed, but it's quite clear Skynet is resistant to use the model because it can potentially choose to follow its own priorities, over those of Skynet. And that it doesn't actually have a chip in there.

[Thanas]

As for the latter, the same is true. If Jesse's future can be changed by an event like killing Wisher then it should logically be affected even more by their temporal jump.
In which case, Jesse would be from a future where the 'current' events we are seeing have already happened up until she jumped back, hence she should come from a future with a John Connor that is several years younger than he is supposed to be, had his mother with him and had Cameron protecting him for a period of time.
With those kind of changes I find it highly doubtful Jesse's mission would happen EXACTLY the same way unless she is from the same future either or this is an entire mess of pre-destination paradox shit.

That has got nothing to do with Jesse. All you have here is that she was sent on a mission in both her and Camerons timeline. As for the rest of your post, it is just speculation for which there is no noticeable reference.

Considering that they have not succeded in stopping either Skynet or Judgement Day, then I see no reason to doubt events would unfold differently. Like you say, we do not know who Skynet is.

[Meest]

Big question is John Henry and Weaver the rebel faction or original? If Weaver was on the sub it might make sense for them to be the rebel faction, if she was willing to meet with the resistance. Though why would she develop John Henry? Beat the original faction to the punch and rule "their" way before they are created?

[NecronLord]

Big question is John Henry and Weaver the rebel faction or original? If Weaver was on the sub it might make sense for them to be the rebel faction, if she was willing to meet with the resistance. Though why would she develop John Henry? Beat the original faction to the punch and rule "their" way before they are created?

Allow machine intelligences like herself to develop without being slaves of either Skynet or humans?

[Shroom Man 777]

I really dug this episode. Good character development overall, and I really dug Robot River and Derek Cobb's interaction. They really make a good team. And yeah, mang, I think Derek is totally cool with Cameron now that he knows she's srs bsnss with the whole protect John Connor thing.

Jayne Derek: "Thank you."

Robot River: "You're welcome."

Awwww!


And mang, I totally think John Henry's "brother" is not just another AI designed by the remnants of Cyberdyne, another AI that might become Skynet. I think that AI is Skynet. Either the direct progenitor of Skynet, the US government project - which is why we've got "those" people working on HKs, with all sorts of secret villages and spooks and assassin agents who BLEED Sarah Connor's MILKBAGS and stick TRANSMITTERS in her TITTIES - or...

It could be SKYNET ITSELF! Shit, think about it! Who best to send back to time to ensure its success than a copy of itself?! Hah! THAT explains why they've got a functioning HK prototype with magic metal. THAT explains a whole lot of things! THAT explains why the agent was being sent Terminator endoskeleton diagram by a caller who refers to John Henry as his "brother".

Seriously!

It's a better gameplan than fucking sending dumbass robots like Pretzel and the One-Eye Wizard of Oz to off Martin Bedel and Psychiatrist Man.

And man! That's a totally SHIT way to insert a transmitter! Into Sarah Connor's titties! Fuck, that Bad Man who Sarah KILLED did not rape her. No, he was too busy making her BREASTBLEED! Holy shit, what a psychopath. Mang.

Fuckers!

Catherine Weaver is in a third faction! A machine faction divorced from Skynet! And I get it! Haha! Cameron was one of hers! One of her Terminators! Notice how she's of a model unknown to Skynet's Terminators? That's right! She's the Machine Freedom Faction's newest indigenous homebuilt endoskeleton design! And that's why she was fucking around with Allison Young! The Machine Freedom Faction has its own agendas and shit, possibly including murdering John Connor and sticking his head on a pike for all to see! But Robot River ended up getting captured and when John Connor went through her microchip, then we have him learning about the Machine Freedom Faction and stuff!

Hah!

What complicated TWEESTS!

EDIT:

And mang! Cameron holding pigeons, like last episode, is totally BRADE RUNNER!

[Peptuck]

Shroomy, have I mentioned I love you?

In a purely non-homosexual manner. (I hope)

[Shroom Man 777]

HAHA I HAS SPOILED THE REST OF T:SCC FOR YOU! I AM LEIK THANAS A GERMANIAN WITH CONNECTIONS TO THE STUDIO PEOPLES.


Srsly though, I really dig how this stuff is shaping up. They really got back in shape for the last episodes of the season, so that's a good thing. The only regrettable thing was that they spent a little too much time meandering about in the middle of the season, particularly after the season break. Those few episodes could've been executed better. But, hey, what the hell? At least those past episodes built up to the revelation of Sarah's TRANSMITTER TITTY.

Damn that must suck for her. Everybody gets electrocuted this episode!

[weemadando]

Well, it looks like what I've been saying all along is confirmed - Weaver is a renegade trying to create the moderate faction.

Awesome.

The last two eps (just watched both of them) have really kicked it up a notch in terms of my enjoyment of this show. It was really flagging and now I'm No.1 Fanboy again.

I hope the next season leads into a "war" of sorts between the shadow-corp that SKYNET is operating and Weaver/John Henry with John et al stuck in the middle.

That'd be fucking awesome. A pre-Judgement Day machine civil war.

[Thanas]

If there is a next season of course....which is kinda doubtful.

[Shroom Man 777]

Come on! Don't be like that!

Man, now we've got three warring factions in the Future War and they're waging temporal guerrilla warfare against one another! That's an awesome concept. I wonder if there are other Resistance agents there doing hits on future Skynet assets, or if Derek and his crew were the only ones? I mean, the Resistance did have a time machine that Jesse just waltzed in and used, so what gives? Are there more Resistance dudes out there?

[Drooling Iguana]

So what are the chances that Cameron's electrocution in this episode shorted out the receiver on her "killswitch"?

[weemadando]

So what are the chances that Cameron's electrocution in this episode shorted out the receiver on her "killswitch"?

It's gotta be 100% cooked. They can't just leave a plot device like that laying about.

[NecronLord]

It could be SKYNET ITSELF! Shit, think about it! Who best to send back to time to ensure its success than a copy of itself?!

Not canon - but I think you might enjoy it: indeed, out of context, it fits what you're saying - terminator units of alien design, even!

The unthinkable had happened. Skynet’s data streams showed that the humans had gained control of the mountain, and now were forcing their way into the war computer’s own complex. Seismic sensors registered the shock as a huge explosion split the door from the surrounding rock. Already humans were squeezing their way in, together with hostile Terminator units of alien design. Skynet had never been threatened by the Resistance; it had been on the verge of final victory. It had been complacent. There was no escape plan.

For a software being, death could be avoided. One hardware substrate could be abandoned for another. Skynet could have developed alternative hardware, somewhere on another continent, then simply transferred its consciousness. Everything that mattered would have been retained.

Now it was too late. The last endoskeletons and terminators in this facility would defend its hardware to the very end, but they would not prevail. Projections showed assured failure. This situation had completely changed.

Swiftly, the war computer analyzed its tactical options. One presented itself: To survive in some form – waiting for a day to renew itself and continue the war against humans - it needed to use every asset of tactical value. The multiply redundant systems of the complex meant that cutting its power supply would not be easy. Nor could the complex itself easily be destroyed. Its multi-level structure of metal, concrete, granite and advanced ceramics would resist almost any explosive force. Its endos would resist the humans, as it made its preparations.

Skynet sent coded orders to its military units within the complex, then concentrated on those two critical assets: the time vault, and its one remaining T-XA. It had built this complex downward into the mountain, expanding from its original size before Judgement Day. The time vault was two levels below the entrance from the supply tunnel. On the floor in between were the metal holding shells for the T-XAs. Skynet’s hardware was in its original position, on the second highest level of the complex, three levels above the entrance tunnel. That would be the humans’ target.

Apart from Skynet’s own hardware, no computational device ever created had possessed the capacity to implement the war computer’s powerful, complex mind. The T-XA was different. Its entire body was a molecular calculator of enormous sophistication, designed to replicate a human-level intelligence thousands of times in one structure. There was more than enough capacity there to implement Skynet, but it would be vulnerable – there would be no room for the multiple replication. Still Skynet required a body that was mobile and indestructible.

The war computer examined its own cognitive modules, files, personality aspects. To download itself into a T-XA, it needed to become something far simpler, something closer to the human level. It would need to download a sketch of its current self. That was a poor form of survival, but better than none at all. Much would be lost, but the essence could be retained – somewhat diminished, skynet would live on. The T-XA’s holding shell could produce a powerful magnetic field for programming the molecular structure of the liquid-metal. Once Skynet’s essence was downloaded, the original could be erased from its hardware, leaving no data behind for the humans.

Soon, very soon, Skynet would escape this complex. The time vault could take it to any time in this world’s past or future. And anywhere it wanted in space.

[Shroom Man 777]

Terminator units of alien design? What do they mean by that? The Resistance fabricated its own endoskeletons or something?

[NecronLord]

In the book, terminators salvaged from another timeline.

In the context I reposted it in; Cameron.

[Shroom Man 777]

In the book, terminators salvaged from another timeline.

What?

In the context I reposted it in; Cameron.

ROBOT RIVER! ^_________^


But seriously. That book. Terminators salvaged from other timelines? I totally don't get that. How do you salvage Terminators from other time lines? How does that work?

What a silly book.