Treasury Secretary to now dictate ALL salaries for TARP

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Treasury Secretary to now dictate ALL salaries for TARP

Post by KrauserKrauser »

Geithner for Supreme Financial Overlord!
It was nearly two weeks ago that the House of Representatives, acting in a near-frenzy after the disclosure of bonuses paid to executives of AIG, passed a bill that would impose a 90 percent retroactive tax on those bonuses. Despite the overwhelming 328-93 vote, support for the measure began to collapse almost immediately. Within days, the Obama White House backed away from it, as did the Senate Democratic leadership. The bill stalled, and the populist storm that spawned it seemed to pass.
But now, in a little-noticed move, the House Financial Services Committee, led by chairman Barney Frank, has approved a measure that would, in some key ways, go beyond the most draconian features of the original AIG bill. The new legislation, the "Pay for Performance Act of 2009," would impose government controls on the pay of all employees -- not just top executives -- of companies that have received a capital investment from the U.S. government. It would, like the tax measure, be retroactive, changing the terms of compensation agreements already in place. And it would give Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner extraordinary power to determine the pay of thousands of employees of American companies.

The purpose of the legislation is to "prohibit unreasonable and excessive compensation and compensation not based on performance standards," according to the bill's language. That includes regular pay, bonuses -- everything -- paid to employees of companies in whom the government has a capital stake, including those that have received funds through the Troubled Assets Relief Program, or TARP, as well as Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.

The measure is not limited just to those firms that received the largest sums of money, or just to the top 25 or 50 executives of those companies. It applies to all employees of all companies involved, for as long as the government is invested. And it would not only apply going forward, but also retroactively to existing contracts and pay arrangements of institutions that have already received funds.

In addition, the bill gives Geithner the authority to decide what pay is "unreasonable" or "excessive." And it directs the Treasury Department to come up with a method to evaluate "the performance of the individual executive or employee to whom the payment relates."

The bill passed the Financial Services Committee last week, 38 to 22, on a nearly party-line vote. (All Democrats voted for it, and all Republicans, with the exception of Reps. Ed Royce of California and Walter Jones of North Carolina, voted against it.)

The legislation is expected to come before the full House for a vote this week, and, just like the AIG bill, its scope and retroactivity trouble a number of Republicans. "It's just a bad reaction to what has been going on with AIG," Rep. Scott Garrett of New Jersey, a committee member, told me. Garrett is particularly concerned with the new powers that would be given to the Treasury Secretary, who just last week proposed giving the government extensive new regulatory authority. "This is a growing concern, that the powers of the Treasury in this area, along with what Geithner was looking for last week, are mind boggling," Garrett said.

Rep. Alan Grayson, the Florida Democrat who wrote the bill, told me its basic message is "you should not get rich off public money, and you should not get rich off of abject failure." Grayson expects the bill to pass the House, and as we talked, he framed the issue in a way to suggest that virtuous lawmakers will vote for it, while corrupt lawmakers will vote against it.

"This bill will show which Republicans are so much on the take from the financial services industry that they're willing to actually bless compensation that has no bearing on performance and is excessive and unreasonable," Grayson said. "We'll find out who are the people who understand that the public's money needs to be protected, and who are the people who simply want to suck up to their patrons on Wall Street."

After the AIG bonus tax bill was passed, some members of the House privately expressed regret for having supported it and were quietly relieved when the White House and Senate leadership sent it to an unceremonious death. But populist rage did not die with it, and now the House is preparing to do it all again.
Now remember kids there is no slippery slope. Definitely none. The government will at no point grasp for as much power and put it into the hands of criminals. They won't do that. Government is hugs and kisses with lollipop rainbows.

Seriously, I can easily see the justification for this move as the US government effectively owns some of the banks but does that necessarily = defacto CEO Geithner of all the mega banks? Does he get to determine their policy next? The investments they will make? Who they will or will not lend to? They are handing an awful lot of power to one man, again.

In a dream world Geithner could use this to fucking destroy the UAW as GM and Chrysler received float money and he could save the company shitloads by assigning sane wages to their workforce. But that won't happen, so until then ALL HAIL KING GEITHNER!
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Re: Treasury Secretary to now dictate ALL salaries for TARP

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KrauserKrauser wrote:Seriously, I can easily see the justification for this move as the US government effectively owns some of the banks but does that necessarily = defacto CEO Geithner of all the mega banks? Does he get to determine their policy next? The investments they will make? Who they will or will not lend to? They are handing an awful lot of power to one man, again.
He already has all those powers and more under the TARP/EESA which was passed last year. He can dictate investments, policies, and pretty much everything else. He can tell JPM to buy Bank of America, or completely liquidate it if he wanted to.
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Re: Treasury Secretary to now dictate ALL salaries for TARP

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So has he started casting his crown yet?
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Re: Treasury Secretary to now dictate ALL salaries for TARP

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This is hilarious. On one hand Republitards accuse Obama of not doing enough but when he actually gives someone the authority to get shit done he's accused of being a dictator. Where was all the outrage when Cheney said the VP was a branch unto itself?
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Re: Treasury Secretary to now dictate ALL salaries for TARP

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So there is no step between do nothing and Treasury Secretary has UNLIMITED POWER that could have been reached? Obviously there is no room for disagreement with methods because as long as the goal is correct the methods to achieve that goal are unquestinable.

Obviously.
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Re: Treasury Secretary to now dictate ALL salaries for TARP

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KrauserKrauser wrote:So there is no step between do nothing and Treasury Secretary has UNLIMITED POWER that could have been reached? Obviously there is no room for disagreement with methods because as long as the goal is correct the methods to achieve that goal are unquestinable.

Obviously.
Clearly it's too much to ask for a substantive criticism that doesn't resemble typical Fox Noise talking points. :wanker:
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Re: Treasury Secretary to now dictate ALL salaries for TARP

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Hey here's a novel idea, why not simply nationalize the banks outright instead of this weird patchwork bullshit that simply allows more opportunity to game the system. While you're at it try and run them with someone else that isn't a tax cheating criminal.

Maybe a forced cramdown through the courts to preserve what little actual function remains in the companies and banks and secure the mortgages and other productive debts that are attached to these companies.

How about expanding the powers of the FDIC to cover the zombie financials and allow the little banks that didn't go balls to the walls risky and could easily start moving to fill the gaps that these banks would be leaving. They've already started this, kinda sorta, almost, as long as the Fed and the Sec Tres get a say, because they have the BEST track record and are definitely not responsible for the vast majority of this shit.

How about addressing the true reasons these banks went under and ban CDS trading and criminally prosecute the peddlers of naked CDS such as the CEO of AIGFP. There are tons of options that don't include annointing the Treasury Secretary as the CEO of the entire financial industry.

Obviously the GOP and any detractors are crazy and Obama turning a non-elected cabinet position into the king of wall street is the only appropriate action. No discussion allowed. Case closed.
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Re: Treasury Secretary to now dictate ALL salaries for TARP

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KrauserKrauser wrote:So there is no step between do nothing and Treasury Secretary has UNLIMITED POWER that could have been reached? Obviously there is no room for disagreement with methods because as long as the goal is correct the methods to achieve that goal are unquestinable.

Obviously.
He doesn't have unlimited power. Companies do not have to take TARP money. :roll:
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Re: Treasury Secretary to now dictate ALL salaries for TARP

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KrauserKrauser wrote:Hey here's a novel idea, why not simply nationalize the banks outright instead of this weird patchwork bullshit that simply allows more opportunity to game the system. While you're at it try and run them with someone else that isn't a tax cheating criminal.

Maybe a forced cramdown through the courts to preserve what little actual function remains in the companies and banks and secure the mortgages and other productive debts that are attached to these companies.

How about expanding the powers of the FDIC to cover the zombie financials and allow the little banks that didn't go balls to the walls risky and could easily start moving to fill the gaps that these banks would be leaving. They've already started this, kinda sorta, almost, as long as the Fed and the Sec Tres get a say, because they have the BEST track record and are definitely not responsible for the vast majority of this shit.
In other words, it's not the expansion of powers you have an issue with. It's the fact that they were given to Geithner. A little honesty would be nice for a change.
How about addressing the true reasons these banks went under and ban CDS trading and criminally prosecute the peddlers of naked CDS such as the CEO of AIGFP. There are tons of options that don't include annointing the Treasury Secretary as the CEO of the entire financial industry.
Criminal prosecution? Exactly how do you plan to do that, genius? Everything they did was perfectly legal, so the only way to fix this mess is to restructure how they operate. Any type of prosecution would be ex-post facto, which I believe idiots like you were railing against when Obama wanted to instate a massive tax on their bonus money.
Obviously the GOP and any detractors are crazy and Obama turning a non-elected cabinet position into the king of wall street is the only appropriate action. No discussion allowed. Case closed.
It would be nice if idiots like you stopped equating a desire for intelligent criticism with a desire for no criticism. Because clearly all criticism is equal. :wanker:
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Re: Treasury Secretary to now dictate ALL salaries for TARP

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Illuminatus Primus wrote:He doesn't have unlimited power. Companies do not have to take TARP money. :roll:
Except that the companies that already have taken TARP funds have now had the carpet taken out from under them. It's a good ole switcheroo going from a free handout because OMG the sky is falling to WHOAA we fucked up, should have thought before throwing out hundreds of billions in handouts Retroactive Laws Engaged!

They've already said that companies are not allowed to give the money back if they don't want it, doesn't exactly seem like honest business.
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Re: Treasury Secretary to now dictate ALL salaries for TARP

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KrauserKrauser wrote:So there is no step between do nothing and Treasury Secretary has UNLIMITED POWER that could have been reached? Obviously there is no room for disagreement with methods because as long as the goal is correct the methods to achieve that goal are unquestinable.
Or, gee, the entities under question could have made intelligent decisions so they wouldn't have gone belly up and needed government money. If they had gone bankrupt/liquidated a judge would have had authority to say what happens. Instead, they took Federal money, which means they play by Federal rules. Solvent entities aren't being dictated to, only those run by incompetent assholes who expected to live in luxury while sucking the public teat.
There are tons of options that don't include annointing the Treasury Secretary as the CEO of the entire financial industry.
Bullshit. Solvent companies that did not take TARP money are not affected. The only people getting this treatment is those who went for the government handout. Ask anyone on welfare - if you take government money you play by government rules, which includes dictating a lot of what you can and can't do.

The companies concerned could have simply liquidated and their staff start over elsewhere - which is what usually happens when a company goes down the shitter. There was a choice here, no one was forced to take TARP money at gunpoint.
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Re: Treasury Secretary to now dictate ALL salaries for TARP

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General Zod wrote:In other words, it's not the expansion of powers you have an issue with. It's the fact that they were given to Geithner. A little honesty would be nice for a change.
It's a combination of the two. I objected when Paulson was going to be given Carte Blanhe in the original TARP and am still objecting to wide and sweeping powers being assigned to a non-elected official completely beholden to the president that appointed them. Geithner is just a better lightning rod because he's a known tax cheat. I would still be objecting if he weren't but given that reality shows that he is, my volume level is raised as my trust in him is drastically lessened.
Criminal prosecution? Exactly how do you plan to do that, genius? Everything they did was perfectly legal, so the only way to fix this mess is to restructure how they operate. Any type of prosecution would be ex-post facto, which I believe idiots like you were railing against when Obama wanted to instate a massive tax on their bonus money.
Zod you are such a douche. Not only are you unwilling to post your opinion, you just get your kicks insulting others. Was I an opponent to them going after the bonus money? No? You didn't bother actually reading my post history and just threw up some bullshit because you are an ignorant slut? Sounds about right.

I would make the trading of naked CDSs illegal and possibly all CDSs in total, severe restrictions would be put in place if nothing else. Anyone violating this law would then be criminally prosecuted. This might not fix the problem at least it would plug that gaping hole in the dike. Currently Obama isn't addressing this AT ALL and is simply pouring money down a gaping hole.
It would be nice if idiots like you stopped equating a desire for intelligent criticism with a desire for no criticism. Because clearly all criticism is equal. :wanker:
Not willing to put your own opinions out there and just see it fit to try and snipe from the sidelines.

I present criticism, present my alternatives when asked for them and the best you can come up with is this? Why do you bother posting if you aren't going to defend the criticized plan, are unwilling to provide your own opinion on the topic, unwilling to provide any alternatives to the actions proposed in the OP and just continue to be completely useless with respect to the debate. Personal insults are great, but you haven't bothered to respond to anything resembling the original post.
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Re: Treasury Secretary to now dictate ALL salaries for TARP

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KrauserKrauser wrote:They've already said that companies are not allowed to give the money back if they don't want it, doesn't exactly seem like honest business.
Further research has not held this to be true. Many healthy banks have refused the TARP funds. Many have also requested the funds and then rejected them once approved to improve PR.

I take back this statement unless I can find further proof that it is true.
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Re: Treasury Secretary to now dictate ALL salaries for TARP

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That's it, KK. You just keep standing up bravely for the rights of those poor oppressed bankers.

Truly, they are the oppressed minority of our times, and Obama is a tyrant for taking away their freedom to do whatever the fuck they want with the taxpayers' money.

This reminds me of the kind of fucktard who complains of "anti-white discrimination". There is not a violin in the world small enough for this cause.
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Re: Treasury Secretary to now dictate ALL salaries for TARP

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KrauserKrauser wrote:Zod you are such a douche. Not only are you unwilling to post your opinion, you just get your kicks insulting others. Was I an opponent to them going after the bonus money? No? You didn't bother actually reading my post history and just threw up some bullshit because you are an ignorant slut? Sounds about right.
Now if that isn't a case of the pot calling the kettle black. . . .maybe you don't realize this but you called for prosecuting people who were peddling naked CDs. The only way of doing this is with ex-post facto laws, which in your very next post you were decrying. Self contradictory much? I also wasn't aware I was required to defend the post in the OP when the person attacking it is being a moron, so feel free to lose the hilarious sense of indignation.
I would make the trading of naked CDSs illegal and possibly all CDSs in total, severe restrictions would be put in place if nothing else. Anyone violating this law would then be criminally prosecuted. This might not fix the problem at least it would plug that gaping hole in the dike. Currently Obama isn't addressing this AT ALL and is simply pouring money down a gaping hole.
That's nothing more than a temporary reprieve. The only way of fixing this is to completely restructure the way the banks work, ideally through nationalization.
Not willing to put your own opinions out there and just see it fit to try and snipe from the sidelines.

I present criticism, present my alternatives when asked for them and the best you can come up with is this? Why do you bother posting if you aren't going to defend the criticized plan, are unwilling to provide your own opinion on the topic, unwilling to provide any alternatives to the actions proposed in the OP and just continue to be completely useless with respect to the debate. Personal insults are great, but you haven't bothered to respond to anything resembling the original post.
Oh boo hoo. I don't need to present alternatives to point out that the criticism is full of shit.
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Re: Treasury Secretary to now dictate ALL salaries for TARP

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Broomstick wrote:Or, gee, the entities under question could have made intelligent decisions so they wouldn't have gone belly up and needed government money. If they had gone bankrupt/liquidated a judge would have had authority to say what happens. Instead, they took Federal money, which means they play by Federal rules. Solvent entities aren't being dictated to, only those run by incompetent assholes who expected to live in luxury while sucking the public teat.
Except the government specifically crafted the TARP bill to buy only non-voting shares of the bailed out companies. By the bill, the government doesn't have to right to say dick on how the companies are run other than the restrictions put into the bill. That's not going to stop Congress or the Treasury because they were too fucking stupid to draft a useful bill, fuck no, instead lets pass a bill with one set of restrictions and then add more restrictions after the fact as the populist cry gets louder and the fact that we were too fucking stupid to create a well thought bill that actually deals with the inherent problems in the system get more and more evident.

I just took advantage of the $8k credit for buying a new house. Should I be peachy keen when next year they pass a bill saying that I have to pay it back plus interest even though when I made the decision to take the rebate that was not what the bill said? Should the laws we pass be just as good as the computer games we are creating, with patches being contstantly created for the shitty work that was put into the rushed final product?
Bullshit. Solvent companies that did not take TARP money are not affected. The only people getting this treatment is those who went for the government handout. Ask anyone on welfare - if you take government money you play by government rules, which includes dictating a lot of what you can and can't do.

The companies concerned could have simply liquidated and their staff start over elsewhere - which is what usually happens when a company goes down the shitter. There was a choice here, no one was forced to take TARP money at gunpoint.
Well, with that given, then the TARP monies didn't have to be given out in the first place. I thought that these companies were "too big to fail" and had to be propped up for the world to not split apart and have demons pour out to poke our butts with pitchforks. That is sure how it was advertised when first passed.

Your welfare example is apt, they were effectively handed welfare checks. The thing is, they were handed checks and told to basically do as the please with a few restrictions. Then the people noticed and got their Congress people to take a brake from doing coke off of hookers and slap retroactive restrictions on a poorly constructed law. Some banks have been able to pay back the TARP funds and get out from under this bullshit, but for the rest, what are we waiting for. If the goal is to control their operations, why not simply nationalize them. As of now we have done that in all but name, what is the problem. I guess it's just easier to leave them around so Obama and Co. can point at them forever and say "They did it"
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Re: Treasury Secretary to now dictate ALL salaries for TARP

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KrauserKrauser wrote:I just took advantage of the $8k credit for buying a new house. Should I be peachy keen when next year they pass a bill saying that I have to pay it back plus interest even though when I made the decision to take the rebate that was not what the bill said?
I dunno; did the government help pay for that house because you were technically bankrupt? If so, what fucking right would you have to complain if they tell you not to buy a new big-screen TV with the money they gave you?
Should the laws we pass be just as good as the computer games we are creating, with patches being contstantly created for the shitty work that was put into the rushed final product?
So ... if someone makes a computer game which is flawed, he should refuse to fix it?
Well, with that given, then the TARP monies didn't have to be given out in the first place. I thought that these companies were "too big to fail" and had to be propped up for the world to not split apart and have demons pour out to poke our butts with pitchforks. That is sure how it was advertised when first passed.
Precisely. This entire TARP situation has been about public good, not corporate rights. Why do you think corporate rights should suddenly come to the fore now? These companies don't deserve to exist at all; they exist only because the government deemed it was in the public interest to keep them afloat, and as such, they owe their very existence to the government. When the government says "jump", they should say "how high?"
If the goal is to control their operations, why not simply nationalize them. As of now we have done that in all but name, what is the problem.
Nationalization would be best. However, it is politically infeasible because of the inevitability of hysterical reactions from people like you.
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Re: Treasury Secretary to now dictate ALL salaries for TARP

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Darth Wong wrote:That's it, KK. You just keep standing up bravely for the rights of those poor oppressed bankers.

Truly, they are the oppressed minority of our times, and Obama is a tyrant for taking away their freedom to do whatever the fuck they want with the taxpayers' money.

This reminds me of the kind of fucktard who complains of "anti-white discrimination". There is not a violin in the world small enough for this cause.
Yeah, except for the fact that I'm not standing up for the rights of the bankers. They should have been processed through the FDIC or in the case of AIG had the powers of the FDIC expanded to cover them. The banks would have been effectively torn apart and these people would have gotten dick. I wouldn't have cried about it one second.

The TARP was simply a boat floated out for the bankers to take as much money as possible from their cronies in government with the taxpayers fitting the bill, I was against it and still am.

Nationalization, Forced Cramdown, FDIC stewardship, any of those would have been preferrable to the amount of bullshit power hungry precedents that are being created to justify not allowing these banks to fail. They are simply continually sidestepping the issue and allowing Geithner or any other Treasury Secretary to try and maintain the status quo no matter the precedents set, debts racked up and problems not resolved.

I object to the expansion of the role of the Treasury Secretary not only because he/she is a political appointee that I and the rest of the public have no say in appointing but because they are doing so unneccessariy. The FDIC exists, forced cramdowns exist, nationalization exists and all three have a better chance of actually fixing the problem than this bullshit riggamaroo.

Not only that but they are creating precedent of laws that are meaningless when passed as they are always subject to change based on populist rage.I know that is how representative governments work and I'm sure examples of this bait and switch can be found in history, it just grates me the wrong way. Especially when it isn't going to fix the underlying problems.
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Re: Treasury Secretary to now dictate ALL salaries for TARP

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KrauserKrauser wrote:They've already said that companies are not allowed to give the money back if they don't want it, doesn't exactly seem like honest business.
Bull fucking shit; my bank gave back it's bailout money in full. It was the front page story on the newspaper today.

Edit:

In fact: Courier & Press
Old National returns bailout money

By Dan Shaw (Contact)
Tuesday, March 31, 2009

Old National Bancorp is among the first group of banks to give up money from the government’s Capital Purchase Program.

In December, Old National obtained $100 million by selling the government preferred shares of its stock. Since then, the bank has derived little benefit from the extra money, according to Bob Jones, Old National president and chief executive officer. Analysts weren’t looking more favorably on the company’s stock. And rating agencies weren’t raising their assessments, he said.

Holding onto the money longer would have forced Old National Bank to pay it back with interest.

“It became expensive to our shareholders,” Jones said.

Another concern was the public’s perception of the bank. At first, the government said it was using the money to encourage lending from sound financial institutions.

But that message got lost in the public furor over the large bonuses paid to executives at Merrill Lynch and other failed firms, Jones said.

“You really began to see all banks painted with the same brush,” Jones said. “We take pride in the 175-year history we have and didn’t want to see us associated with some of the bad behavior.”

Another consideration was the effect holding the money would have had on the pay of Old National executives, although Jones said it never really mattered. Under government rules, the bank couldn’t pay employees bonuses worth more than a third of their total yearly compensation. Jones and four other executives at Old National would have been affected.

The rules hadn’t existed when the bank first sold stock to the government. Congress passed them in February, as part of the $787 billion stimulus bill.

Since that change, several banks have talked about getting their stock back from the government. The first four to take that step took it Tuesday. Besides Old National, they were Iberiabank, of Lafayette, La.; Signature Bank of New York; and Bank of Marin Bancorp of Novato, Calif.

Jones said Old National never really needed the federal money. While many banks reported losses for 2008, Old National had a profit of $62.5 million.

Before buying back the stock, Old National had an independent firm give it a “stress test,” similar to the reviews large banks must now undergo. The test found that Old National is prepared to withstand the current economic difficulties. The government approved the repurchase, and the bank will incur no penalties.

Old National is not the only local bank reluctant to be owned in part by the federal government. This year, German American Bancorp, based in Jasper, Ind., and the Bank of Evansville declined to sell the government preferred shares of stock. Both said they wanted to avoid interference in their businesses.

Meanwhile, other banks have accepted the offer of money. Integra Bancorp, based in Evansville, has obtained $83.6 million and Fifth Third Bancorp, which as a local affiliate office, has gotten $3.45 billion.

Shares of Old National Bank closed at $11.17 Tuesday, up 81 cents from the previous close.
Last edited by Rogue 9 on 2009-04-01 12:21pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Treasury Secretary to now dictate ALL salaries for TARP

Post by Darth Wong »

KrauserKrauser wrote:Yeah, except for the fact that I'm not standing up for the rights of the bankers.
Yes you are. You even attempted to craft an analogy between them and an honest homeowner. Do I need to show you your own words?
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Re: Treasury Secretary to now dictate ALL salaries for TARP

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KrauserKrauser wrote:Except the government specifically crafted the TARP bill to buy only non-voting shares of the bailed out companies. By the bill, the government doesn't have to right to say dick on how the companies are run other than the restrictions put into the bill. That's not going to stop Congress or the Treasury because they were too fucking stupid to draft a useful bill, fuck no, instead lets pass a bill with one set of restrictions and then add more restrictions after the fact as the populist cry gets louder and the fact that we were too fucking stupid to create a well thought bill that actually deals with the inherent problems in the system get more and more evident.
BZZZZTT!! Wrong.

Section 2 of the TARP/EESA bill:
Sec. 2. Purchases of Mortgage-Related Assets.

(a) Authority to Purchase.--The Secretary is authorized to purchase, and to make and fund commitments to purchase, on such terms and conditions as determined by the Secretary, mortgage-related assets from any financial institution having its headquarters in the United States.

(b) Necessary Actions.--The Secretary is authorized to take such actions as the Secretary deems necessary to carry out the authorities in this Act, including, without limitation:

(1) appointing such employees as may be required to carry out the authorities in this Act and defining their duties;

(2) entering into contracts, including contracts for services authorized by section 3109 of title 5, United States Code, without regard to any other provision of law regarding public contracts;

(3) designating financial institutions as financial agents of the Government, and they shall perform all such reasonable duties related to this Act as financial agents of the Government as may be required of them;


(4) establishing vehicles that are authorized, subject to supervision by the Secretary, to purchase mortgage-related assets and issue obligations; and

(5) issuing such regulations and other guidance as may be necessary or appropriate to define terms or carry out the authorities of this Act.
Subsection b(5) means that clawbacks, voiding all existing pay contracts on a retroactive basis, and all that other stuff is PERFECTLY LEGAL. It was legal all along, and has been since the original bill. They didn't need to add a damn thing to dictate all the payscales for any bank or financial taking bailout money.
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Re: Treasury Secretary to now dictate ALL salaries for TARP

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Darth Wong wrote:I dunno; did the government help pay for that house because you were technically bankrupt? If so, what fucking right would you have to complain if they tell you not to buy a new big-screen TV with the money they gave you?
Nope. It was sold as free money. As was the TARP fund. It had extermely light restrictions and banks that were not insolvent took advantage of the free money. Some banks thought better of it and declined. Does Geithner gain control of the solvent banks that took the money as well?
Precisely. This entire TARP situation has been about public good, not corporate rights. Why do you think corporate rights should suddenly come to the fore now? These companies don't deserve to exist at all; they exist only because the government deemed it was in the public interest to keep them afloat, and as such, they owe their very existence to the government. When the government says "jump", they should say "how high?"
Except that is not how the bill is written. Non-voting shares are just that, non-voting. They have no say in how the company is run. If the bill had given the government voting shares, then I have less of an argument, but they were stupid and they didn't. The government is just saying, "I know what the bill says but fuck that, bend over." This is responsible governance?

They might owe their entire existence to the government but at no point have they been nationalized through legislation. The government is just taking over because no one is objecting to it. They haven't passed a bill saying that they have control over the companies, because that would be easily exploitable by their opposition as socialist and redcommiepinkofacist, but they are doing it anyway. I object to their expansion of powers without having a debateable bill or some actual policy other than "a wizardGeithner can do it"
Nationalization would be best. However, it is politically infeasible because of the inevitability of hysterical reactions from people like you.
Except that I've already proposed nationalization as an option, so they wouldn't be people like me now would they...

Instead we are effectively nationalizing them in everything but name, in bits and pieces and without actually making any useful changes. The status quo is trying to be maintained as much as possible even though that is making the situation worse and worse.
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Re: Treasury Secretary to now dictate ALL salaries for TARP

Post by KrauserKrauser »

aerius wrote:Section 2 of the TARP/EESA bill:
Sec. 2. Purchases of Mortgage-Related Assets.

(a) Authority to Purchase.--The Secretary is authorized to purchase, and to make and fund commitments to purchase, on such terms and conditions as determined by the Secretary, mortgage-related assets from any financial institution having its headquarters in the United States.

(b) Necessary Actions.--The Secretary is authorized to take such actions as the Secretary deems necessary to carry out the authorities in this Act, including, without limitation:

(1) appointing such employees as may be required to carry out the authorities in this Act and defining their duties;

(2) entering into contracts, including contracts for services authorized by section 3109 of title 5, United States Code, without regard to any other provision of law regarding public contracts;

(3) designating financial institutions as financial agents of the Government, and they shall perform all such reasonable duties related to this Act as financial agents of the Government as may be required of them;


(4) establishing vehicles that are authorized, subject to supervision by the Secretary, to purchase mortgage-related assets and issue obligations; and

(5) issuing such regulations and other guidance as may be necessary or appropriate to define terms or carry out the authorities of this Act.
Subsection b(5) means that clawbacks, voiding all existing pay contracts on a retroactive basis, and all that other stuff is PERFECTLY LEGAL. It was legal all along, and has been since the original bill. They didn't need to add a damn thing to dictate all the payscales for any bank or financial taking bailout money.
Sorry, I don't read unsummarized bills that often, where does that translate in meet your new CEO Timothy Geithner?

I was going with the initial stipulations of the bill which in my understanding were:
  • - Ensuring that incentive compensation for senior executives does not encourage unnecessary and excessive risks that threaten the value of the financial institution
    - Required clawback of any bonus or incentive compensation paid to a senior executive based on statements of earnings, gains or other criteria that are later proven to be materially inaccurate
    - Prohibition on the financial institution from making any golden parachute payment to a senior executive based on the Internal Revenue Code provision
    - Agreement not to deduct for tax purposes executive compensation in excess of $500,000 for each senior executive
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Re: Treasury Secretary to now dictate ALL salaries for TARP

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Darth Wong wrote:Yes you are. You even attempted to craft an analogy between them and an honest homeowner. Do I need to show you your own words?
And I clarified my argument to be regarding the companies that are not in fact insolvent and simply took advantage of a one time boost to their balance sheets. The stated objective of the bill was to increase lending and unfreeze the credit markets, not to nationalize the banks. Do you not see the parallel?
Last edited by KrauserKrauser on 2009-04-01 12:53pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Treasury Secretary to now dictate ALL salaries for TARP

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KrauserKrauser wrote: Sorry, I don't read unsummarized bills that often, where does that translate in meet your new CEO Timothy Geithner?
It means that Geithner already has the authority to do everything you're bitching about that supposedly wasn't covered in the TARP. But hey, summaries of laws are just as good as reading the real thing *I'm a smarmy asshole*?
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