MASSIVE UPDATE!

Lord Poe · Post by **Lord Poe** » 2003-02-06 01:58am

Hey, FUCK Darkstar's page! I've put up a MASSIVE update on mine! Check out the "What's New" section here:

http://h4h.com/louis/vsfaq.html

BTW, if you want to know why AOTC:ICS has clearly stated, no-nonsense numbers, check out the "Base Delta Zero" section of "Planet Busting Weaponry".

Captain tycho · Post by **Captain tycho** » 2003-02-06 02:31am

Time for more fun!

His Divine Shadow · Post by **His Divine Shadow** » 2003-02-06 03:29am

Poe:

No, from this quote we can determine that an Imperial bombard fleet contains an average of 416 ships. This does NOT invalidate the Imperial Sourcebook quote on page 61 or 82, the Star Wars Sourcebook quote on page 32, (Identical to the Imperial Sourcebook quote on page 61) or the quote found on Official Star Wars web page (Identical to the Imperial Sourcebook quote on page 61). Note the quote above speaks of destroying a world, not reducing a civilized world to slag. Han Solo said "destroy" too in ANH, and he was clearly referring to the sparse debris that had been Alderaan when he said it. So, if we want to be completely anal about these quotes like our BDZ debater, we can determine from the quote on page 109 that 416 ships can completely destroy an Earth-like planet just like the Death Star, and 1,000 ships wouldn't be needed, as Han Solo guesses.

I would add to this that destroying a planet does not have to mean a DS like blast, if anything Han Solo was not impressed because the planet had been shattered into fragments, but because it had been totally blown away and the fragments where travelling at fractions of C.

You can signifcantly disrupt a planet with less than 2e32joules, ofcourse the planet will come back together after some time.

Also for your consideration:
========================
Two-Wave Gravshock Devices

Housed within the shell of a Torpedo Sphere, the two-wave gravshock - or planetbuster - is designed to do terrible damage on a near-planetary scale.

By localizing a planet's gravity, the gravshock waves can simulate earthquakes, floods, and other natural disasters. Unfortunately, time and power make this weapon somewhat impractical on the everyday scale. The Super-class Star Destroyer, for example, is the only ship with engines powerful enough to pump the massive amounts of energy necessary for a full planetary disruption, but it has no need of such a weapon considering the armaments it packs.
========================
-Imperial Sourcebook

KhyronTheBackstabber · Post by **KhyronTheBackstabber** » 2003-02-06 03:30am

Very good Lord Poe, I just got done reading Smackdowns n' Shootouts. The two pic links (Worf's sharp shooting skills, and the speed of the Phaser) are not working though.

Connor MacLeod · Post by **Connor MacLeod** » 2003-02-06 03:52am

Additional considerations about TDiC:

1 - If they were supposed to remove the crust and mantle so that the core remained, why the hell are they using vaporization? Vaporizing it would still leave the vapor of the planet I believe, unless it somehow was ejected from the planet at escape velocity (which I am pretty certain we didn't see) - and we didnt see any gaseous matter at all (consider the volume of crustal matter 30% of the planet's crust would compose.. literally many cubic kilometers worth. And then consider how things would look were this converted to a superheated, rapidly-expanding gas...)

2 - If they were using an automated transponder to send back false sensor readings, and this was located on the planet, why did the assault not destroy said transponder??? (And how is it they were unable to tell the effects of their own weapons from what the transponder created? )

3 - If they are simply trying to wipe out the Founders, why the hell are they intent on destroying not only the ENTIRE crust, but also the mantle? I would assume that destroying the crust alone would be enough (do we have some reason to believe the founders could survive in or on a sea of molten material? For that matter, I would question having to destroy the entire crust (half of it would be enough.) This would have left them exposed for a substantially LESS period of time (30 minutes to an hour, assuming timeframes were accurate) instead of many hours (I proejct about six). This smacks of extreme stupidity to me.

Connor MacLeod · Post by **Connor MacLeod** » 2003-02-06 04:03am

I can also recognize the sticky, semantics-whore hand of Edam in that, particularily in the BDZ page

Connor MacLeod · Post by **Connor MacLeod** » 2003-02-06 04:08am

Small points:

Regarding the Dodonna calcs and the superlaser - its also backed up by the EGW&T. The Star Wars Technical Journal didn't say half a fleet, but it said the hwole starfleet (which is still a buttload of energy.. at most it halves the estimate..)

Also, you missed ALOT of quotes in the BDZ debate. The fact Nar Shaddaa was meant to be reduced to molten slag (And WAS stated as a BDZ operation - conducted by a handful of cruisers and some cuistoms patrol sips.) There's also Crimson Empire where its indicated that an ISD can make "stones run like water" and turn "sand into glass."

That's just a small sampling, actually. (There's Milargo from the Jedi Knight series.. but as I understand it that might be apocrypha now..)

Connor MacLeod · Post by **Connor MacLeod** » 2003-02-06 04:21am

One problem with your links section as well Wayne. in the "whats new" section, the "speed" link takes one to sensors

Connor MacLeod · Post by **Connor MacLeod** » 2003-02-06 04:43am

And you STILL forgot to add my corrections about the concussion grenades (and the volatility of blaster gas) into your "AT-ATs are thin-skinned" page.

Sir Sirius · Post by **Sir Sirius** » 2003-02-06 05:49am

What a lovely trick you have developed for upping the post count Connor.
Maybe we should all start using the 'every sentence deserves a post of it's own' method?

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2003-02-06 06:23am

Why is it that you folks can't remeber no HTML or BBI code in post titles?!

EmperorMing · Post by **EmperorMing** » 2003-02-06 07:17am

Lord Poe wrote:Hey, FUCK Darkstar's page! I've put up a MASSIVE update on mine! Check out the "What's New" section here:

http://h4h.com/louis/vsfaq.html

BTW, if you want to know why AOTC:ICS has clearly stated, no-nonsense numbers, check out the "Base Delta Zero" section of "Planet Busting Weaponry".

Trekkies just don't get it do they...?

Boba Fett · Post by **Boba Fett** » 2003-02-06 07:31am

Nice work as usual Lord Poe!

Ps: Just one thing about an older theme!

Star destroyers and suns...

I've re-read Zahn's trilogy and found a couple of sentence when Pellaeon is talking with Thrawn about how many months the modification of the ISD took to make the ship able to accomplish the N'kllon mission.

Tomorow I'll tell you the exact page No.

Phil Skayhan · Post by **Phil Skayhan** » 2003-02-06 11:59am

Boba Fett wrote:I've re-read Zahn's trilogy and found a couple of sentence when Pellaeon is talking with Thrawn about how many months the modification of the ISD took to make the ship able to accomplish the N'kllon mission.

Tomorow I'll tell you the exact page No.

Google wrote:Now, by my re-reading the book the time from the point Thrawn and Palleon
discuss the problems of "sunlight intensity" and "adjustments" to the
Judicator, to the attack at Nkllon is approx 1 week. That time being used to
prepare the Judicator for the Athega system.From the Nkllon to Sluis Van attack is approx 1 1/2 weeks. The time to"repair" the Judicator. Assuming it takes the same amount of time to remountsensors as it did to remove them leaves about THREE DAYS for actual damage repair!

Refer HttE hardcover page 90

Thrawn: We'll simply need to take a few days first to sheild the viewports and remove external sensors and communication equipment.

Darth Servo · Post by **Darth Servo** » 2003-02-06 12:28pm

Veeeerrrry nice poe. The screen shots are great. Hard evidence like that seems to be the only thing that makes most Trekkies shut up. Although you might want to put them up in a manner thats more readily available for posting on bulletin boards.

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2003-02-06 12:31pm

Poe, Are these actual posted arguments you are responding to? Are they quotes from here, ASVS, or Scooter's page?

And if so is that why your bit on the 8's deals with borg resistance more so then their ability to blow up a planet, how they did it, and what it reflects on them?

Darth Servo · Post by **Darth Servo** » 2003-02-06 12:40pm

Suggestion for Worf's marksmanship Wayne. I remember a TNG episode where Worf is practicing target shooting in the holodeck with Guinan and he absolutely SUCKS. Someone see if it can be found.

Also, for the TDIC argument. In "Pen Pals" they showed a planet with a severly disrupted surface showing that the Trek writers do know how to show such things and they are within the budget. See if anyone has a screen shot from that episode. I don't unfortunately.

Captain tycho · Post by **Captain tycho** » 2003-02-06 01:57pm

Sir Sirius wrote:What a lovely trick you have developed for upping the post count Connor.
Maybe we should all start using the 'every sentence deserves a post of it's own' method?

How about every word?

Lord Poe · Post by **Lord Poe** » 2003-02-06 11:48pm

Ok ladies and gents, I THINK I cured all the mistakes in the last update! Thanks for the suggestions!

Lord Poe · Post by **Lord Poe** » 2003-02-06 11:53pm

His Divine Shadow wrote:
Also for your consideration:
Two-Wave Gravshock Devices

Thanks, HDS, but I really wanted to stick to the bare-bones stuff here. The page isn't meant to be an all-inclusive resource. Good find, though, I never heard of it!

Lord Poe · Post by **Lord Poe** » 2003-02-06 11:54pm

KhyronTheBackstabber wrote:Very good Lord Poe, I just got done reading Smackdowns n' Shootouts. The two pic links (Worf's sharp shooting skills, and the speed of the Phaser) are not working though.

Ah, thanks for the reminder!

They're fixed now!

Lord Poe · Post by **Lord Poe** » 2003-02-06 11:59pm

Connor MacLeod wrote:I can also recognize the sticky, semantics-whore hand of Edam in that, particularily in the BDZ page

Err... I'm not sure if Edam was present in that particular debate. I think it was all Gothmog and IXJAC commenting on my old BDZ page.

Lord Poe · Post by **Lord Poe** » 2003-02-07 12:00am

Connor MacLeod wrote:And you STILL forgot to add my corrections about the concussion grenades (and the volatility of blaster gas) into your "AT-ATs are thin-skinned" page.

Ah, keep your kilt on! Its all up now!

Lord Poe · Post by **Lord Poe** » 2003-02-07 12:01am

Darth Servo wrote:Veeeerrrry nice poe. The screen shots are great. Hard evidence like that seems to be the only thing that makes most Trekkies shut up. Although you might want to put them up in a manner thats more readily available for posting on bulletin boards.

If you want to use the images for a web board debate, just right click and use 'em!

Lord Poe · Post by **Lord Poe** » 2003-02-07 12:14am

Ender wrote:Poe, Are these actual posted arguments you are responding to? Are they quotes from here, ASVS, or Scooter's page?

They are mostly from ASVS. If you note a similarity to many of Scooter's pages, that's because they were originally up about 3 years ago, and then Scoot made his website as a direct response to my pages. (The "Smackdowns n' Shootouts" page used to be "Troops")

You can probably find many of the arguments by doing a Google search, and put Poe and Elim in the search field! The pages used to be VERY Mike Wong heavy, with tons of calcs and thoughts from his posts on ASVS and RAST. But that was before Mike put up his own page and wrote better and more refined arguments and calcs. So I've been eliminating most of that, and inserting more of"ME" on the pages!

[quotes]And if so is that why your bit on the 8's deals with borg resistance more so then their ability to blow up a planet, how they did it, and what it reflects on them?[/quote]

Well, that's all we have to go on really. They only blew up one planet, and their sole enemy that the smack the shit out of was the Borg. The only reflection to be had on 8472 is that they like to dress up like humans and study them.

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