T:SCC 2x21: "Adam Raised a Cain"

[Faqa]

Wow. This show has had it's ups and downs, but it's certainly going out with a bang. When Derek got shot, I had to rewind the scene and watch again - I couldn't believe what I was seeing. Just a short gunshot and....

Well, when you face metal killing machines daily, expect to get unlucky once. And once is all it takes.

Also points for the first truly effective musical montage of the series. *sniff*

As for Ellison, I feel for him. Poor guy must be incredibly confused by this point. He knows what the Connors do. He knows what John Henry is. He's right in the middle and I doubt he's managing to put any complete picture together. Aside from probably being terrified of Cameron.

I believe him, BTW, on the matter of not calling the police. He got Savannah. That's all he wanted. He had no reason to put Sarah away. I'm looking forward to him finding out that his boss is metal.

I don't even want to THINK about what John is going to try to do. Hopefully Cameron will restrain him. Or possibly she could recreate T1 on the police's ass?

Also, American viewing public? Fuck. You. Seriously. And fuck Fox executives for being so narrow-minded. Hulu ads. DVD sales. It's not all about the first airing. Which you guaranteed no one would watch, just for the record, by the infamous timeslot. Do you hate quality sci-fi shows? Is that it?

Go make another season of Wife Swap or something.

[Drooling Iguana]

What does "tearing down the sets" even mean for a show like SCC? The only permanent location for the show for most of this season was the house that the characters moved out of last week. I suppose the ZieraCorp offices would also count but who knows if they'll still be a factor by the end of the next episode? The actors beginning other projects is a bit more of a problem but the show is still going on its summer hiatus and most of the projects listed in the article appear to be short-term things (and, again, depending on how next week's episode goes these projects might not be an impediment to continuing the show.)Spoiler

Brian Austin Greene certainly won't be needed for a third season.

The show's outlook isn't exactly rosy but I'm still going to wait for official word before I give up hope on it continuing.

[PREDATOR490]

Watched it and was impressed overall.

Derek getting shot was pretty brutal given I liked his character so far but I doubt it will be the last we will see of him. More fodder for Sarah's visions I expect wether or not the show continues. Might get a few of them in the last episodes, especially since I am hoping they are finally going to give some explanation for various questions left hanging. Cameron's comment about Derek last episode being one of the minor ones.

I'm willing to bet Weaver is going to end up meeting the Terminator that is after the girl and tear it apart in short order but I'm more interested in finally getting that meeting between her and Sarah Connor. I suspect now that she is arrested, Weaver will come in and talk to her in custody which seems like a rather obvious way for the conversation to remain unrevealing due to being observed.

Unfortunately I do not see a finale coming to this series. At best I can see an ending similar to 'Not Fade Away' coming or the revelation that this entire situation has been a time loop leading into the future we have seen. Otherwise I see no chance of another season being created if they showed Rebel Weaver, John Henry and Rebel Cameron, John Connor joining sides to whack Skynet.

[Darth Nostril]

Well SciFi came to the rescue for Stargate SG-1 so not all hope is completely lost.

I'm running out of straws to grasp at here.

[Strandwolf]

Those cretinous network executives and their outdated Nielsen ratings have both gone and (most likely) done it again!

That article has already been debunked. The author has no idea what she's talking about. TSCC may or may not be cancelled after the end of this season (and yes, it's chance of a renewal is not very good), but the show is not officially dead yet. The sets have not been struck, they've simply been "shuffled around." (as per Ausiello). Fox will announce it's decision in May.

[Thanas]

I am not going to comment on the cancellation rumour, but I am going to comment on the episode.

A fantastic job.

That's all.

Oh, and Cameron rebooted quite fast...again.



Oh, and Strandwolf - welcome to the board.

[Thanas]

Oh...one more thing:

Everything Jessie has tried to prevent turned out to be happening. Sarah has lost weight and may die soon (cancer, leukemia?) and she has been locked up...so John only has Cameron to turn to.

Oops.

The sad thing - If she had revealed who she was from the start instead of manipulating him, she might have had a better shot. If she had joined Derek in protecting John....

that said, the bond between John and Cameron may be too strong already, given what happened in the S2 premier. Of course, there is always that one spoilery pic from the next episode....

also: good tactical thinking by Cameron holding John back.

[Thanas]

Goddam it, I must be out of it today.

Adam raised a Cain, by Bruce Springsteen

In the summer that I was baptized
my father held me to his side
As they put me to the water
he said how on that day I cried
We were prisoners of love, a love in chains
He was standin' in the door I was standin' in the rain
With the same hot blood burning in our veins
Adam raised a Cain

All of the old faces
ask you why you're back
They fit you with position
and the keys to your daddy's Cadillac
In the darkness of your room
your mother calls you by your true name
You remember the faces, the places, the names
You know it's never over it's relentless as the rain
Adam raised a Cain

In the Bible Cain slew Abel
and East of Eden he was cast
You're born into this life paying
for the sins of somebody else's past
Daddy worked his whole life for nothing but the pain
Now he walks these empty rooms looking for something to blame
You inherit the sins, you inherit the flames
Adam raised a Cain

Lost but not forgotten, from the dark heart of a dream
- Adam raised a Cain

Very fitting.

[Peptuck]

Oh, and Cameron rebooted quite fast...again.

I'm not sure if this is a case of a complete reboot, like what happened in the last episode. We know that Terminators can be stunned by a hard enough knock, and Cameron has shown this tendency before; in fact, its usually the only thing that ever slows her down, when a larger Terminator hits her against a wall.

I suspect now that she is arrested, Weaver will come in and talk to her in custody which seems like a rather obvious way for the conversation to remain unrevealing due to being observed.

Anyone think that Weaver might be
Spoiler

the priest who Sarah's going to have a chat with?

Also, eagerly awaiting the T1-style shotgun-toting Cameron rampage.

[Minischoles]

I'm quite surprised that once Sarah was captured Cameron didn't slaughter Ellison right there and then, just a simple 'You lied again' and snapped his neck for him. I predict a very nice homage to T1 and T2 if they do rescue Sarah from the jail, which would be all kinds of awesome.

Good points of the episode
- Derek, while a bit of a sudden death was exactly how you think someone should go down if they get in the path of a Terminator. No chance to run or get behind cover, just instantly shot and killed without even a thought.
- Cameron wanting to kill Ellison, did anyone get a vibe of Cameron being a bit petulant about not being allowed to kill?
- Johns realisation that the daughter is talking about Skynet and a terminator was nicely acted, just that slow dawning on his face
- Further hints that Weaver is a rogue model who doesn't work for Skynet. You'd think any terminator on learning of Sarah Connor would go for her, something like a standing order to find and interrogate her for every model
- Donald wheres your trousers sung slowly, turns what usually sounds a bit like a drinking song into something very different

Bad points, struggling to find any really. Mainly Ellison not figuring out he had a tail, or that Weaver was acting strangely coldly to the news her daughter was kidnapped. The guy was in the FBI for fucks sake, you'd think he'd notice stuff like that. I mean come on, i don't know much about how women react to kidnappings, but you'd think it'd be a little more dramatic than Weaver can portray.

[Alyeska]

Ellison believes that Weaver is in the know about the future. Her behavior and response about Savanna furthers this belief. He finds Weaver odd, but apparently writes the behavior off.

[Losonti Tokash]

I honestly have no clue if the show still has a chance, but I intend to write some angry letters. My girlfriend and I sent this to askfox@fox.com and I will likely send it in paper form as well. I encourage you to do the same.

To Whom it May Concern,

My boyfriend and I are loyal fans of the television show, The Sarah Connor Chronicles. My boyfriend has actually been a devoted fan of the entire Terminator franchise from the age of 8. We were initially concerned when you moved the show to the infamous "Friday Night Death Slot," which seems to be a place your network sends shows to die, ala Firefly. Now that the ratings have predictably imploded, there are rumors abounding that the show has already been canceled and the sets torn down. We both feel it is shortsighted to only consider the ratings from the initial broadcast. For example, we both watch the show every week as soon as it is posted on Hulu, since we are both college students and simply can't be at home when the show is aired. The viewing audience of Terminator jumps to over 10 million once Hulu and other online/delayed broadcasts are considered, not to mention potential DVD sales (the unexpectedly high numbers of which allowed the Firefly film Serenity to be bankrolled). We feel that by ignoring these users, you're leaving out an entire demographic of young, tech savvy viewers who otherwise would simply not be watching your network to begin with. At present the only other show on your network we enjoy is Dollhouse, another show that was sent to the Friday Night Death Slot before it had even aired a single episode. If you continue to prematurely cancel shows with a large and dedicated fanbase like Terminator and Firefly, you will continue to lose members of this demographic to shows like Heroes and Kings.

That being said, our question is: will Terminator have a third season? If it disappears after such a fantastic season, expect a large portion of your viewing audience to follow. Even if it's too late to save Terminator, don't repeat the same mistake with Dollhouse. The latest episode of Dollhouse is currently the most popular video on Hulu and it would be another tragedy if a show of this caliber were to be cancelled due to antiquated ratings systems.

As for the episode itself, holy shit is definitely the phrase I would use.

[SylasGaunt]

That was a damn fine episode.

Though I say now if Fox cans this I'm officially giving up on the network. Every time they put on a show I like they fuck around with its timeslot then cancel it. It's just getting annoying now.

[Strandwolf]

Oh, and Strandwolf - welcome to the board.

Thanks, Thanas. After months of being a lurker here and on many other boards that discuss TSCC, I felt it was the right time to finally speak up. It's probably a sign of how fond I have become of the show. The last 5 episodes were amazing, and I'm absolutely hyped up about the season finale.

[Strandwolf]

Anyone think that Weaver might be
Spoiler

the priest who Sarah's going to have a chat with?

Spoiler

I don't think so. Isn't that the same actor that played the priest in Samson & Delilah? Why should Weaver choose to look like him? She probably doesn't even know that priest.

[PREDATOR490]

I really doubt they will try a full blown rampage like T1 and have the funds for a T2 mini-gun fest.
The former will only result in them becoming mass murderers and the latter making any chance of Connor remaining unknown unlikely. Either way, if the manage to stop Judgement Day, John Connor would be caught and spend the rest of his life in jail while Cameron gets blown to bits or torn apart to create a new Skynet.

From what has been said, the ending to this season is only going to be an end to the season. Not an end to the entire series which makes me doubt Skynet or JD is going to be stopped. Either an ending like T3 or Angel's Not Fade Away strikes me as the most likely outcome.

That said, this episode seems to have confirmed that Weaver has been in play since before any of this series started, excluding the pilot naturally. The FBI cop stated the accident with the real Weavers happened a couple of years ago and Henry already stated this is the length of time the company has been acquiring Coltan. I'm left pretty sure that Cameron and Weaver are from the same timeline which possibly makes them part of the same faction. I'm rather interested in seeing these too meet.

As for Weaver not reacting to Sarah Connor's name. She already stated she was staying to protect John Henry and going after Sarah Connor would be pointless compared to just letting Ellison bring her to Weaver. That way Weaver has the upper hand and might even get a pot shot at John Connor if Sarah brought him.
Wether or not Weaver will take a shot if it presents itself remains the question now. I'm guessing she wont unless they threaten Henry which Sarah is likely to do in her current state of mind.
That said, I imagine John Connor wont go in guns blazing for his mother or at John Henry. Otherwise he is really going to make things a lot harder on himself. I can already picture John Connor's actions being the precursor to Henry and Weaver going apeshit trying to defend themselves while armies of ignorant cops get slaughtered in the process.

[NecronLord]

Sarah Connor was responsible for the largest police gun fight in history (and escaped from it!) - I expect they'd get in heavy weapons.

[Imperial Overlord]

John has, over a short span of time:

lost Riley

lost Charlie

lost Derek

and now his mother has been captured.

That's a lot of emotional body blows and his only source of comfort is literally a ruthless killing machine. I can't see this as being good for his mental state.

[Peptuck]

I really doubt they will try a full blown rampage like T1

The Wondercon trailer showed Cameron blowing away uniformed personnel who looked like either police officers or prison security guards.

[Singular Intellect]

That's a lot of emotional body blows and his only source of comfort is literally a ruthless killing machine. I can't see this as being good for his mental state.

Not to appeal to fanboy wet dreams here, but I wonder if this (presumeably temporary) alone time with Cameron will have John and her getting a little closer than usual.

[Peptuck]

That's a lot of emotional body blows and his only source of comfort is literally a ruthless killing machine. I can't see this as being good for his mental state.

Not to appeal to fanboy wet dreams here, but I wonder if this (presumeably temporary) alone time with Cameron will have John and her getting a little closer than usual.

Spoiler

From the Wondercon trailer, there was at least one conspicious shot of John and Cameron in bed.

[Thanas]

That's a lot of emotional body blows and his only source of comfort is literally a ruthless killing machine. I can't see this as being good for his mental state.

Not to appeal to fanboy wet dreams here, but I wonder if this (presumeably temporary) alone time with Cameron will have John and her getting a little closer than usual.

Well, there is
Spoiler

a very revealing spoiler picture showing the two of them in bed.

EDIT: Damm you, Peptuck. Damm you to hell.


Still, every single one of Cameron's calls turned out to be the right choice - if John had listened to her advice, none of this would have happened.

Weaver's action in keeping the plant online makes more sense now - now that she is the boss of it, she can preserve it for the resistance to use it against Skynet, in which case she gets a massive bargaining chip for her faction.

Also, if Cameron was sent from a third faction (and she surely was, because if Derek had cracked and given the location to her when she was still on Skynet's side - if she ever was - the compound would have been levelled) I wonder if Weaver might not have some kind of secret access code.

In which case the killswitch would come in handy (cue fangirls/nerd wailing).

[Singular Intellect]

Spoiler

From the Wondercon trailer, there was at least one conspicious shot of John and Cameron in bed.

Spoiler

I'm well aware of that. That's the primary reason I brought up the point, actually. I'm beginning to wonder that, with his mother not around to constantly remind him of Cameron's 'non human' nature (which he was getting irritated with from what I saw), if he'll succumb to Cameron's visage. Especially if she takes advantage of the opportunity to strengthen their bond with Sarah's absence, even if it's more on his end than anything.

[Singular Intellect]

Also, if Cameron was sent from a third faction (and she surely was, because if Derek had cracked and given the location to her when she was still on Skynet's side - if she ever was - the compound would have been levelled) I wonder if Weaver might not have some kind of secret access code.

In which case the killswitch would come in handy (cue fangirls/nerd wailing).

*raises hand* Guilty a charged. Summer Glau is one of two major attractions for me in this series. The other being the existence of John Henry and the whole teaching and interacting with a new AI intelligence.

[Thanas]

Spoiler

I'm well aware of that. That's the primary reason I brought up the point, actually. I'm beginning to wonder that, with his mother not around to constantly remind him of Cameron's 'non human' nature (which he was getting irritated with from what I saw), if he'll succumb to Cameron's visage. Especially if she takes advantage of the opportunity to strengthen their bond with Sarah's absence, even if it's more on his end than anything.

Considering that in the future Spoiler

it is all but outright said that they have such a relationship and that he refused to kill her in the S2 premier, I doubt their bond needs any strengthening.

But the spoiler pic might also be regarded to her being dead - she shows no emotion or movement at all in it and his face is not exactly shining with joy.

Also, if Cameron was sent from a third faction (and she surely was, because if Derek had cracked and given the location to her when she was still on Skynet's side - if she ever was - the compound would have been levelled) I wonder if Weaver might not have some kind of secret access code.

In which case the killswitch would come in handy (cue fangirls/nerd wailing).

*raises hand* Guilty a charged.

Oh, I didn't mean you. I meant the lifejournal shippers.